Murugan -karthikeyan -the origin s

Dear sunil bhattacharjyaji I dont Know any period in history where we r using 24/25 nakshtra s Even jain texts Like surya pranjapati etc were using 27 /28 nakshtras ,as i heard the the abhijit was used by them and later got dropped .( thes texts are almost 1000 yrs b4 varahamihira too ) ,even it says the uttarayan happened in sravana nakshtra those days ( means must b 3000 to 4000 yrs old concepts frm Now ) It must b true in the sense nakhsatra means a division is not physical naKhsatras but mathematical division of zodiac Trying to Link some Physical stars with nakshtras is against indian astronomical traditions i blv ,as this nakshtra concept must b originated to view ecliptical path called zodiac in planetary movmnts back ground and other wise what was the use of it even if it is only astronomy like some Hindu scholars blvs .So we were using Both zodiac ,one for ayana and vishuva calculations required for seeing normal seasons and other for seeing the planetary influense called sidirial zodiac even which was the basis of kalpa and manuantara concepts upto pralaya and recreation of new world .so we can see as Moon takes 27 plus days to take a round in zodiac ,hence this 27 and one nakshtras concept has happened ,to make it in 30 days in one Lunar month ( one LUnation period ) so as to include the ( so as to include newmoon and full moon phaces the thithi concepts happened ) Parva s the thithi concepts originated .even in vedanaga jyothisha period 27/28 nakshtra s were used ( even the rig veda supports it ) I dont know any direct referece of 24 /25 nakshtras ,if u hav some documnts pls share with us rgrds sunil nair , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:>> Dear Sunil Nairji,> > Skanda Hora must be the oldest one if we are to believe that only 25 Nakshatras were considered in the earliest days of Hindu astronomy and after the Abhijit moved out of the ecliptic we were left with 24 Nakshatras. It was Skanda or Kartikeya, who started the count of Nakshatras from Krittika and he also split the three of the Nakshatras and then the total number of Nakshatras came to be 27 and these Nakshatras were the 27 Yogataras or connecting-stars or junction-stars of the ecliptic. It was Skanda or Kartikeya or Murugan, who was the good brahmin (Subrahmana or Subrahmanyam), who gave the astronomical basis for perfoming the rituals in proper time of the year.> > It was much later that the equal Nakshatra-divisions, with the Yogataras within them (but not necessarily at the junctions of the nakshatra-divisions), came to be used and the astronomers started counting the Nakshatras from Ashwini. I think you may be able to throw more precise light on this, preferably with the actual RAs (Longitudes) of the Yogataras, as used by the ancient astronomers.> > Regards,> > sunil K. Bhattacharjya> > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/17/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala wrote:> > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala Re: Murugan -karthikeyan -the origin s> > Monday, August 17, 2009, 7:23 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear manoj ji > > I do agree with u > > even i dont think he is harappan diety as any thing similar has a resemblance to him till un earthed in harappan sites > > sure pasupati siva was ( rishab deva of jain s also may b ) deity of Mohenjadaro harappan periods along with Mother Godess ( even some historian claims the old dramila ( Tamil ) was the lingua franca of mahavanchi thurai -mohanjeo daro ( gr8 port of ships ) and parappan -harappan ( means siva worshippers ) region .> > Sure ,there is so many Local versions of god s like mariamma ,murugan ,ayyappan who all may b later incorporated in vedic Hindu religions and ritual s > > But there is one thing i find most of the sidha saiva worshippers also has deep reverence for muruga or subramnya and even there is a blf in most of the south ,esp Dravida -chera ( tamilnadu and kerala ) region s as Lord subramanya is ruling deity of astrology .> > is it due to fact that skanda hora is supposed to b one of the Oldest astrological treatise and Murugan otherwise also Known as skanda > or is it due to the fact he married a tribal girl called valli and some of this tribals also traditionaly into astrology ,palmistry and face reading etc > > rgrds sunil nair > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ ...> wrote:> >> > Dear Sunil Ji,> > > > Very nice article. When one travels to the remote villages in T.Nadu, even today, it is clear that even that Lord Muruga is never worshipped in total isolation but always in the context of Shiva and Shakti. If indeed he had been a "harrappan" diety, there would have been much stronger isolatory worship.> > > > Just as a side note to all the "Aru Padi Vedu" (The holy hills of Lord Muruga) in T.Nadu are very potent spiritual hubs providing incredible spiritual fodder for the sincere devotee. He is not called "Kaliyuga Kadavul", "Lord of Kali Yuga" for nothing. > > > > Regards,> > -Manoj> > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Sunil Nair astro_tellerkerala@ ...> > ancient_indian_ astrology> > Sunday, August 16, 2009 11:57:12 PM> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Murugan -karthikeyan -the origin s [1 Attachment]> > > > > > [Attachment( s) from Sunil Nair included below] > > > > > > > > Dear List > > > > here is an interesting article abt the dravida diety Murugan other wise Known as karthikayan > > > > rgrds sunil nair > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. > >>

Dear Sreenadhji,Thank you for your detailed reply.My views were based on the following premises:1)I think after the Abhijit left the ecliptic only 24 nakshatras were left and Skanda divided the three Nakshatras out of these ie. Ashadha into Purvashadha & Uttarashadha, Bhadrapada into Purvabhadrapada & Uttarabhadrapada Phaguni into Purvaphalguni & Uttaraphalguni and thus the 24 Nkahatras became 27. He did this to achieve an equitable distribution of the Nakshatras in the ecliptic. This move of his was precursor to the making of the 12 equal Rashis later on.2)I was referring to Skanda the son of Lord Shiva, who was the Pasupati of the Atharva veda and also The Rudra of the Rudrachamakam. This Skanda was brought up by the six Krittikas and this is why he had special affinity to his adopted mothers.

Knowledge of astronomy being a must for a good brahmin he was the Subrahmanyam too.Regards,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:Sreenadh <sreesog Re: Murugan -karthikeyan -the origin s Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 8:36 PM

Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji, //> Skanda Hora must be the oldest one if we are to believe that

only 25 Nakshatras were considered in the earliest days of Hindu

astronomy// Why should we belive that 25 nakshatras only were considered in Hindu astronomy?!! ! Skanda Hora clearly mentions 27 Nakshatras and deals astrology in detail! I have collected and presented the available Skanda hora fragments in a single pdf in: http://www.ancienti ndianastrology. com/cmsa/ index.php? option=com_ jdownloads & Itemid=86 & task=view.download & cid=22 //It was Skanda or Kartikeya, who started the count of Nakshatras from Krittika// You must be mentioning to some Puranaic skanda and not the astrological skanda! As per Skanda hora the Nakshatra count starts from Aswini Nakshatra itself and NOT from Krittika. //It was Skanda or Kartikeya or Murugan, who was the

good brahmin

(Subrahmana or Subrahmanyam) , who gave the astronomical basis for

perfoming the rituals in proper time of the year.// Alas! It is total confusion! Skanda, Kartikeya, Muruka and Subrahmaniya DOES NOT mean the same deity from a historical perspective. Kartikeya was a north Indian war god; Muruka a south Indian god; Skanda the deity of one tribe in the beginning; and so could be Subrahmania. It is very later in the religious history that all these deities are clubbed into one - similar to that happened with Ganapati. For example in case of Ganapati - the South indian god Pillayar, the deadly malefic destructor concept Vinayaka (mentioned in Yajnavalkya smriti etc), the Puranic god Ganesa (the elephant faced god) are all clubbed into one! Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:>> Dear Sunil Nairji,> > Skanda Hora must be the oldest one if we are to

believe that only 25 Nakshatras were considered in the earliest days of Hindu astronomy and after the Abhijit moved out of the ecliptic we were left with 24 Nakshatras. It was Skanda or Kartikeya, who started the count of Nakshatras from Krittika and he also split the three of the Nakshatras and then the total number of Nakshatras came to be 27 and these Nakshatras were the 27 Yogataras or connecting-stars or junction-stars of the ecliptic. It was Skanda or Kartikeya or Murugan, who was the good brahmin (Subrahmana or Subrahmanyam) , who gave the astronomical basis for perfoming the rituals in proper time of the year.> > It was much later that the equal Nakshatra-divisions , with the Yogataras within them (but not necessarily at the junctions of the nakshatra-divisions ), came to be used and the astronomers started counting the Nakshatras from Ashwini. I think you may be able to throw more precise light on this, preferably with

the actual RAs (Longitudes) of the Yogataras, as used by the ancient astronomers.> > Regards,> > sunil K. Bhattacharjya