Guest guest Report post Posted July 18, 2004 Dear Devotees, I am a new member to this list. I have a query which i want to share with you all. The moolavars in temple are made of either granite (predominantly) or wood or limestone. Is there any significance for this? But the utsavars are made of pancha loka or some other metals. Is there any particular reason for this? Thanking you in advance for your replies. Regards, maya Vote for the stars of 's next ad campaign! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2004 Respected devoutees : This writer has been following the various exchanges over the past few days and would like to add his two bit observations based in utter good faith and on his limited knowledge. The common thread in all these exchanges is the great devoution overflowing with faith on our Beloved Empuraman. Surely HE must be thoroughly enjoying and chuckling indulgently in compassion - similar to a fond parent watchig the antics of a two year old toddler - as HE is watching us attempt to catch a glimpse of HIS glory. As one reads Ms. Maya's first salvo, if one may be permitted to say so, her goal seems clear. Everything has a logic and rationale. Science is definitely involved. While knowledge is limited, the fact that there is something called logic, something called scientific is equally within the ken of this limited knowledge. Its like not knowing of all the words/vocabulary in the English language, but knowing just a handful of words, say a 1000 words, but being fully aware that there is something called the dictionary which has ALL the words so long as one knows how to refer to the dictionary and is able to look up a particular word when in doubt. By the same token of reasoning, if a temple has been constructed in such a manner,with such and such material etc.two courses are open to a person. If he is immersed in Bhakti, he will not question anything and will not look at reason/rationality/science. There is no need for him. For another, who is keen to explore as a child, he exhibits enormous hunger for knowledge,only Bhakti may not satisfy him. He has to probe. Its his 'guna', his very nature. Again,the latter category has two courses open : (a) he may keep on probing without accepting anything until he reaches the end, if at all or (b) he may stop at some point beyond which he will himself get worn out mentally and come to accept the reasoning/rationality upto a point. At one point we all agree, namely, insofar as the Vedas go they stretch into infinity and cannot be fathomed in a single lifetime. Which we can easily see fits into (b) above where beyond a point, the person has to perforce accept. Note: The enquiry itself is in the form of devotion and is actively encouraged in the Upanisads where an eager Swataketu is gently led into the path of free enquiry by his Guru Uddalaka by asking him to bring the fruit of the Nyagrodha tree and look at the seed and further delve deeply to find the Truth.....(Chandyoga Upanisaad ix-1-4 and xi-vi) This brings us back to point (a) where the person can keep on probing and at some point the enquiry is bound to turn into (b) and stop. In any case, in the end, Bhaki will sharpen his knowledge and this sharpened knowledge will reinforce Bhakti manifold. Against the above backdrop if we look at Ms.Maya's 'information-sharing-binge'. what do we find? Lets approach with an open mind and not with emotions, sentiments etc. What is she trying to say in between the lines. The richness, glory, great power/capacity and unlimited nature of our beloved Sriman Naarayanan is getting diluted on occasions, with/by certain people and over time the next generation may or may not be able to appreciate these in its fullness. Its a wakeup call as it is to all of us to look at things from a different perspective. With our collective intelligence, knowledge and total devotion to HIM, why not look at preserving and lengthening the tradition, the ethos, the principles? for our future generations to enrich? Recently, there was a e-signature campaign of which we all may have surely received the postings titled with bold "DEMOLISHMENT OF FAMOUS BALAJI TEMPLE AT TIRUMALA, INDIA Please protest at www.savetirumala.org by one andy.srinivasan" Surely people are concerned at what is happening around, or what is giong to happen in the near future. The best example one can immediately think of is the Trikala Sandhya. Forgive this writer, but how many of us as religiously doing this? This writer knows of hundreds who are from highly orthodox background, who have had great and mightly forefathers/tradition, who are successful in every field, well off, busy, have no want, donate lavishly to temples/foundations/charity etc.who without fail make a point to visit exclusively to Tirupati at least once a year, who do everything in the name of the Lord, who pray, do the aradhana correctly do everything except the Sandhya? Can the same be said of our forefathers? Each of these so called 'old fashioned' byegone era stalwarts have always been doing the Sandhya. Not a single one of us can deny this fact. The 'elders' had what we call in today's parlance 'had their priorities right'. In short: there is an urgent need today to not only confine oneself to one's private practices and limited devotion but also with a sense of a 'missionary' zeal one must try to perhaps take a broad view and peep into the future so that we can channelise all the beneficial energies given by our beloved Lord into cementing and bonding HIS glory to one and all. Lest this writer be misconstrued, one would like to clarify that we are not suggesting indulging in the 'conversion' ritual. This is a political gimmick. As true believers in the compassion of the Lord who have surrendered everything at HIS Lotus feet, why dither at this juncture into doing that extra bit by enquiring deeply with the sole purpose of helping all and ourselves. No one has denied that the brain which has scientific knowledge also is equally aware of its limitation and is seeking now to strengthen its feeble affection for our beloved Sriman Naarayanan? Before this writer concludes. Please. Some of you try to visit the famous Mahabalipuram beach on the outskirts of Chennai and visit the Shri Varahaswamy Temple where the Shri Lakshmi is seated on the right thigh. This small temple is literally inside a cave among the rocks and clefts of the beach. Though the daily poojas take place, the temple is in quite a bad shape. Visitors are rare and the government archeological department is draggings its feet and there are some controvorsies. All these apart, its a wonder to just catch a glimpse of the Majestic Lord blessing with his divine consort. The structure seems to have been made of some wood. The salty weather and HUMAN neglect have taken their toll. In another 25 years the sea will probably gobble up this temple One wonders whether modern scientific knowledge can come to the rescue? Can some of us do something?Not with money, but with our knowledge which has already been tempered by our bhakti ? One would like to end at this point. Errors if any may be pardoned. Om Tat Sat Tat Tvam Asi Maya Iyengar <maya_s1717@yaho sarathys, jayasartn, o.com> kdevanathan, mksudarshan2002, Vijaya Raghavan <svrvan, 07/23/04 02:47 s.ramachandran, Sadagopan PM <sgopan, ramachandran soundararajan <maheesaran, cc: Fwd: Moolavar Dear devotees, I was shocked beyond belief to see the responses to the report quoted from Indian express on moolavar and the complete black-out of the mail I sent as a sequel to . When I came to know that relevance has been attached to the shila roopam, the materials used for abhishekam etc, I was over-awed how every aspect in our tradition has evolved with such rich meaning. With this thought when I look around it is that "Kaangindra porulellam yaane ennum….". As I look into my Human physiology book, every aspect tallies with the upanishad statement that this body of ours is the shareeram for brahman and it is he who controls it as the sarathy. The descent of 11 out of 12 cranial nerves upto heart (only) and the remaining one coming to the stomach looks like Vishnu as Vaiswanara pervading the body through the food he cooks in the stomach. Every system inside the body as a part and the control by brain as a whole (I am leaving out details of connectivity here because I am yet to come to grips with the fact that people here do not want one to think) is an amazing aspect of Brahman ‘happening’ from macro to micro level. There is wonderful symmetry at all levels of creation, only that the human brain limited by hypocrisy and dogmas refuse to fall in line. It seems God has tough time dealing with us only - to goad to make us see reason and realise him. When a writer (writing on the moolavar) tells his little son that Thiruvaadi pporam was the birth day of ‘Goddess’ and that her age is as old as that of earth, no one would correct it. Because that would be apacharam (according to the members of the group).. But that he lost a wonderful chance to tell his son the story of Andal (who would have denounced any reference to herself as goddess) and the easy way to explain the road to spirituality by means of her story is not at all realised. Going by this kind of attitude, I very well understand how and why our sacred knowledge of the past had undergone so much mutilation over generations. For the bhktas of today, bhakti is a means to get this or that result including moksham. But I don’t think our texts ascribed to this view. They said if you expect some return for bhakti from Perumal then it is tantamount to a wife expecting ‘kooli’ from her husband for the happiness he had given her. On the other hand we find texts telling us to meditate upon him through knowledge (which I find through science and logic too) which in essence is bhakti which is para bhakti leading to him. When you do upasana on him through vigyana, you see him as vigyana mayan. Can any one challenge this? Then why this fear about science? I told my parents my fear and doubt whether it is impossible to find one belonging to our fold who understands or is desirous of understanding god through bhakti as well as knowledge from science. At least are there people who realise that knowledge that leads to bhakti has been regarded by seers like Ramanujacharya as a way of Brahmo-upasana, which Ramanujachrya himeself followed? They said they too had not seen (so far) both to co-exist. Perhaps it is Narayana alone who can understand me. So keep chanting " Sriranganatha, mamanatha, namosthuthe", they said. It is with much pain that I decide to come out of the group which in my opinion has touched only the tip of the burg as far as promoting and sustaining the essence of Vedic knowledge is concerned but can not help the devotee to keep an open and fresh mind as to allow "all noble thoughts come to them from all sides". Regards, Maya. Note: forwarded message attached. New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! Received: from [61.1.132.95] by web54009.mail. via HTTP; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:54:57 PDT Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:54:57 -0700 (PDT) Maya Iyengar <maya_s1717 Fwd: Moolavar mksudarshan2002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 5302 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-2024620494-1090468497=:4633" Note: forwarded message attached. New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! Received: from [61.1.132.182] by web54008.mail. via HTTP; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:21:02 PDT Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:21:02 -0700 (PDT) Maya Iyengar <maya_s1717 Moolavar kdevanathan, mksudharshan2002, jayasartn, Vijaya Raghavan <svrvan, s.ramachandran, Sadagopan <sgopan, ramachandran soundararajan <maheesaran, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 4794 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-492823592-1090459262=:7461" Dear devotees, I am really pained to see the response of a fellow devotee about pouring sulphuric acid on the idols of Perumal. Not even a scientist or an atheist (for the sake of an argument) would contemplate to say such a thing! It is God who created us. It is said that God does ‘things’ through us. We are His ‘karuvi’. It is God who created science too. Then is it right to say that we can not use science as a means to know Him? Vedas are science. Homas are science. Creation as explained in Upanishads is science. Taittriya upanishad (II – 5) regards Him as Vigyana mayan. Shraddha and Rhuthm (orderliness) are considered as the components to know Him as Vigyana mayan. Is it then right to treat science as untouchable in knowing about God? This mail is not for justifying what I quoted in my previous mail on moolavar. But I would like to point out that approaching religion through science helps persons like me belonging to the younger generation cling to our Faith with more conviction and devotion. I hope it is atleast for this reason the moderator allows me pen down my opinions, which I assure, would not deviate from the goal of this group. Here is a glimpse of how science gets into our mind making us think of God as Vigyana Mayan. It is said that He creates laws of Nature for the Universe but no rule of law bounds Him. I do find a ‘prathyaksha’ example when Lord Krishna lifted Govardhana Giri. How was He able to do it? Was it magic? Even magic has science at the backdrop! In all probability and with our limited knowledge, we can assume that He broke the law of gravity (probably bringing it to zero!) to lift it. He does reside in us as Antharyami. He resides in every soul and in everything. Then one may ask why one must go to temple. I think here also some science works. When we realize the Antharyami and consciously make efforts to mark His presence, at a certain point, Antharyami gains an upper hand and starts guiding us. In other words, at this ‘escape velocity’ does Antharyami start guiding us. Till then we have to keep trying to understand and not do anything to deter the realization of its presence- just like propelling a rocket against gravity till it reaches escape velocity. Further on, It will guide us (as auto-pilot?!) in Its orbit! Likewise there has to be a reasoning /reason for anything to happen. We suffer today for the sins committed in the past. So there is cause and effect – again we come back to science! The very names of gods must be having some vibration that generates some energy. E.g. – Valmiki, only after chanting ‘mara mara’ could become a reformed soul and attain the ‘thaguthi’ to write Ramayana. On the other hand I think the prefix like "Dhur" in the names of kaurava (like Dhuryodhana) which has negative meaning made them bad! It is said music can induce rains. Azhwars were able to see God by their songs. Though Bhakti is main component in such happenings we have heard of instances where songs have opened the doors. It seems that acoustics do have a place in devotion. It is with this kind of logic I wish to look at the information on moolavar. The alkaline substances used in abhisheka hasten the process of oxidation. The electrons so released in this process, when enter the devotee’s body, displace oxygen from Hb to the tissues by Bohr’s effect. This effect will be more pronounced in a temple like Thirumala where mountain air + the electrons released will give ‘food for our cells’. This may be the reason for some of the temples being situated on hilltops and abhisheka taking place early in the morning. These effects might be higher in Marghzhi! Another information I would like to say is during abhisheka or during chanting and recitals, the crystal lattice of the granite might change due to vibrations / chemical reactions that induce more conductivity and release of electrons. The right ‘uchcharippu’ is necessary for that to happen. That may be reason the slokas are chanted in a particular pitch and particular speed with appropriate pauses. Remember a sound at a particular frequency and acoustics can make a building fall! (as we see in Philips advertisement!) This line of reasoning gives some explanation for why wood is used in some temples. The Perumal in Thiru Velliankudi is of wood and is brightly painted. Until some years ago He looked as though made of granite because people have given sandana kaappu etc to Him and done abhisheka unknowingly. When people in that area started experiencing misfortunes, it came to be known that the moolavar was not worshipped properly. Later with the guidance of swamis like Sri Krishna Premi, the original idol was restored and the misfortunes too stopped. (Sometimes some basic knowledge in this are needed to be known to follow the rules better. Science fulfils the role at times! ) The amazing aspect of this Perumal is that if a devotee worships this Perumal, he will reap the benefits of having worshipped at all the 108 divya desas. It makes me think that the extent of the divine energy that resides in this moorthy can be borne only by wood having specific energy lattice and not by granite or other materials. (The shakthi of this temple is such that the Lord can cure the defects of the eyes.) It is by this reasoning, may we conclude that the old idol at Kancheepuram (I don’t know which temple, I have only heard of this incident) in granite must have attained high energy of lattice as to produce counter effects due to heating up with excess shakthi, that It was immersed under the temple tank only to be taken out once in a few decades when the water is changed? I know the fellow devotees will be seething with anger about how I say of God simply in terms of science. I prefer to say like this. ‘All of must have visited dentists. To take an impression of your oral details, the compound used for the purpose must be of a fluid of right viscosity to record the details accurately. Any change in viscosity and temperature can mar the details and in the end, the restoration you will get will be a misfit and unaesthetic. So its only a free, fluid mind that can record ideas and opinions and get an investment out of it and lay a strong foundation for or restore Faith. Religion without science will make it superstitious. But religion backed up by science is Vigyana Mayan. "yetham vigyana mayamaathmaana upasamgramya" (The one who meditates on Brahman as Vigyana reaches Him as vigyana mayan and then proceeds to reach the Brahman at Ananda mayan level – Taittriya upanishad – 10-5 in chapter III) Before concluding let me pose three questions to those that oppose any discussion or probe into the science of idols: The vigraha is a special abode of God in which He is consecrated with mantra /yantra rituals and relevant chanting etc. Do you think the physical body in which He comes to reside can be of any material? Don’t you think that some thought must have gone into (by Rishis or whomever have decided) the physical side too to help the devotee get benefits at all levels? Remember the saying, "Koil illa vooril kudi irukka vendaam" The physical laws that we know tell about the changes that happen to our body. Don’t you think that the laws which we do not yet know are many that it is possible that the divine energy inside the garbha gruha also enters our body or pervades our body and can give optimum benefits only when our body tissues work at peak level with more oxygen supply? If God as ‘Vaiswanara’, the Agni can ‘pervade the bodies of all beings with the aid of the five gaseous products (prana, apana, vyana, udhana & samana), cook and enter the food taken in’ (Gita V – 14), there is a possibility that a similar process is happening inside the temple through ‘Vayu’ Don’t you think that thoughts like these do help us to think more of God, admire Him, adore Him and love Him, besides making us more responsible and conscious of the need to preserve this tradition and transfer it to next generation without bigotism and dogmas but with conviction, awareness, knowledge and above all devotion that is unshaken and unbroken and can not be threatened by any invasive thought, that you consider science as one? Requesting for pardon in case I have trespassed the limits, With regards, Maya. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
