Astrology and Saadhnaa

[Guest guest]

In this country of Bhrigu and Parashar, astrology still holds an important place

in our life. If we leave aside some fake practitioners, majority of astrologers

are still able to successfully forecast about any thing in life including death

of a person. Few astrolgers in combination of some related sidhhis are even able

to " know " (if not forecast due to some reasons) some facts about previous birth

and future births too.

 

It has been much debated since long about the freedom of Karma and Prefixed

Destiny and this is not the motive of this post, but what i would like to submit

here is that its a general opinion that a person starts his spiritual journey at

the some particular time when an auspicious combination of planets in his natal

chart come in to force. It is very much true if such a combination is not there

, that person cannot even think about . Position of Guru in anyone' s

chart alone is sufficent to figure out whether the person has inclined towards

or not.

 

Broadly, this is the mechanism by which Paramatma has programmed the result of

our karmas.

 

Now the question arises, if the progress in our also depend upon the

positions of planets in our natal charts? or I mean the fate of our is

predestined and can be known?

 

Its very much true also that the Ishwara has control over every thing whether

they are planets or our karmas. Still, in material planes as we know astrology

hold good, then what about ?

 

Plz do reply as much as possible with all the possible dimensions and also plz

forgive my ignorance.

 

 

 

 

Flying to Bangalore or Bhopal? Search for tickets here.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sohumji, this is a ver good question.

 

Yes planets also affect our spiritual progress. For example- how many

Rickwallahas or beggars have you seen who are very religious?(if they

are, they dont stay poor). How will starving people think about God?

 

We must have an overall good birth chart to even think of God.

 

Regards spiritual astrology, yes there are techniques that can tell

how much progress you will make. But Im not so convinced. Most of

books/articles I read on topic usually show how their Guru was

advanced due to special, while everyone else isnt. They also use very

forced/contrived logic to prove their point.

 

There are also Spiritual Yogas(Jyotish Yogas, not Patanjalis Yoga),

but I have seen them in chart if even Athiests, while famous saints

have none.

 

One can know general spiritual progress from chart, but such big

questions as whether one will get Moksha - Im not so sure.

 

One reason is, as one becomes very advanced in Sadhna, one can no

longer be controlled by planets. This happens completely only when you

have complete 100% control over mind - so some Yogis like Yoganandas

followers who claim they are above Astrology as they practice Yoga,

are fooling themself. If you can watch your thoughts non-stop for 24

hours, you will become free from astrology.

 

But as ones progress increases, one is less controlled by planets, &

more by Higher Divine forces. As such, it becomes less difficult to

predict their progress.

 

But planets still have their power. One person(a very advanced Sadhak)

I know was forced to leave his country due to war, & later got very

sick. This completely stopped his Sadhna. This was predictable through

his astrological chart, so here we have a case of normal materialistic

things(predictable by astrology) affecting a mans spiritual future.

 

love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

, so hum <jigyaasuu wrote:

>

> In this country of Bhrigu and Parashar, astrology still holds an

>important place in our life. If we leave aside some fake

 

Thanks dear jigyasu,

 

You have started a very important topic here. I do not have

much knowledge about astrology. Shanracer has some knowledge of

astrology and we have a good astrologer here with the name

Jyotishguru, who is silent now a days.

 

However, each life is given to us for a particular job, which is

pre-decided at the time of last birth's end. We are born in a

special combination of planets...which indicates this purpose. Now

if someone can read it properly or not depends upon the astrologer.

Wrong predictions may prove the astrologer wrong but not the

astrology.

 

Position of Jupitor has a great effect on spiritual life.

Normally Jupitor in good combination with moon or in 12th or 11th

house signify spiritual awakening. Even if an atheist has jupitor

in 11 or 12 house, he may suddenly change.

 

It is also not necessary if jupitor is not in 11 or 12, person

will not wake up....there are many other factors..but 11th and 12th

is certain.

 

Position of Rahu and Ketu tells if a person would go for Tantra

or would get siddhis or not.

 

The problem with horoscopes is that we can surely tell after the

incident happened... predicting before is sometimes tricky...it is

like Nostradamus' poems !

 

In autobiography of a Yogi, Swami Yukteswarananda asks his

disciple Yogananda to wear some metalic bangle to ward off bad

effects of planets..... He was a great yogi..and if he asked

Yogananda to follow astrology instead of showing his own powers,

means the great yogis also harmonise with planets and dont really

try to disturb their workings

 

Much can be written on this...let us see what others have to say

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

, " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba wrote:

>

> , so hum <jigyaasuu@> wrote:

> >

> > In this country of Bhrigu and Parashar, astrology still holds an

> >important place in our life. If we leave aside some fake

 

I dont believe in astrology, because if planets are controlling

everything there is no meaning of free will and our life. We are

puppets ?

 

How many will agree with this?

[Guest guest]

, ansuya80 <no_reply wrote:

> I dont believe in astrology, because if planets are controlling

> everything there is no meaning of free will and our life. We are

> puppets ?

 

 

 

sorry .You are absolutely incorrect. Its not planets really which

are controlling our life its karma. We take birth according to our

past karma (planets are placed according to ones karma)and astrology

is a great science which can help us unravel many things and make

difference to our lives too provided we get correct guidance

 

O.K. BROTHER DIETO. I GOT YOU

[Guest guest]

> I dont believe in astrology, because if planets are controlling

> everything there is no meaning of free will and our life. We are

> puppets ?

 

no we are not, because :

 

1.) celestial bodies do not " control " , they " influence " .

 

2.) our free will is ours, but excersizing our free will results in

" decision or choice " and what we choose depends ont solely on our free

will, but also the influential circumstances , effected by these bodies.

 

3.) it is the way by which limits And definitions are made on

unlimited desires of baddha jiva ( us ).

 

4.) it is the part of a greater design, ultimately designed to free us

from the clutched of material manifest and giive us our original forms.

 

5.) the influence of celestial bodies is overcome by many means, like

knowledge, by mystics and by another kind of Jivas who are devotees of

the lord.

 

the planets , stars and other celestials and there controls are part

of inferior control exerted by illusionary force of the lord. but this

inferior control is executed in accordance with the superior force,

which is none other than the will of Supreme Hari.

 

And hari puts it in such a place, so that he is always present to

protect his devotees, For example, once one attains moksha, he is

neither bound nor under control of illusion itself, than it is obvious

that any celestial body, from black holes ,till small satellites will

have no control.

 

This knowledge of mine if derived form the explainations in scriptures

mainly given by Hari, Parasara Muni, Garga Muni and Veda Vyasa.

 

I bow them and offer my humble manaskar at there revered feet.

 

Let them please forgive this minute baby, in case i have commited any

mistake.

 

-- Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

 

 

, ansuya80 <no_reply wrote:

[Guest guest]

, " i_free_spirit " <i_free_spirit

wrote:

.. Its not planets really which

> are controlling our life its karma. We take birth according to our

> past karma (planets are placed according to ones karma)

 

I fully agree with Free Spirit here. Planets and their names are just

coded message of mother nature to have a guess, what we did in last

birth and what is the purpose of this life.

 

It is our own karma which decide our this life...and karma of this

life will decide the fate of next birth. Horoscope is just a

shorthand coded language of mother nature to understand this.

 

We are certainly not puppets in the hands of planets or karma. By

offering our Karma to Lord we can break this chain of Karma. this is

what Gita all talks about.

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

, deito01 <no_reply wrote:

>

> 2.) our free will is ours, but excersizing our free will results in

> " decision or choice " and what we choose depends on solely on our free

> will, but also the influential circumstances , effected by these

bodies.

>

> the planets , stars and other celestials and there controls are part

> of inferior control exerted by illusionary force of the lord. but

this

> inferior control is executed in accordance with the superior force,

> which is none other than the will of Supreme Hari.

 

Dear Deito sir, I am again confused. First you said free will is

ours then you wrote Hari is controlling everything (that includes free

will too). So which of your statement is correct? If we do not have

free will it means we are mere puppets.

 

Please I am not contradicting you, but trying to understand the

whole idea of free will and Karma

 

Ansuya

[Guest guest]

, " Aum " <beirut_ka_baba wrote:

> Planets and their names are just

> coded message of mother nature to have a guess, what we did in last

> birth and what is the purpose of this life.

 

Dear Aum, So this is exactly my point, if our past karma have decided

everything for this birth, then doing anything from our side like

doing sadhna, searching gurus all become useless and futile exercise?

 

If our karma have decided we will be enlightened, we will be

enlightened, why to do sadhna or bow before gurus ?

 

Isnt it a valid point this time

 

ansuya

[Guest guest]

Mayandi, you are so sweet devotee fo lord, and you have all the rights

to contradict me, because neither i see ego nor isee bad attitude in you.

 

The way you have asked me is like i usually ask others, like that of a

inquisitive baby, and this is the nature of one who has " Brahma Jignyasa "

 

 

Listen to these words Mayandi, I whcih i am putting in the most

simplest of form , limited by my capability. And i am not sir, please

don't call me like that, feels like ego is knocking on the door, and

waiting for such words to enter inside. as i don't deserve that

respect , as i am of no existence neither, i would be here, if i was

great , in this form.

 

 

 

We have free will, to make our choice, from a FIMITE set of choices

Mayandi, This finite set, is defined and also a boundary is drawn by

these controlling forces like senses, Celestial objects etc etc.

 

 

But this finite set, and other finite sets, where WE CAN EXECUTE OUR

FREE WILL< is just a small part of playground designed and maintained

by the creative forces of Hari.

 

And hari always monitors and executes control to define this playground.

 

Now am i able to convey you my message mayandi, I am poor in

communication, and if i write such posts whcih are not comprehend

able, Anytime of the day or night, please urge me to convey you in

understandable format.

 

 

because what i write as reply to you, is first and foremost , intended

for your understanding , and than everyone else..

 

 

-- Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

 

, ansuya80 <no_reply wrote:

>

>

> Dear Deito sir, I am again confused. First you said free will is

> ours then you wrote Hari is controlling everything (that includes free

[Guest guest]

Ansuya

free will is there without a doubt (I think) but its our karma that

binds us. Free will and karma are one and the same. What else is

karma but free will. God gives you body, mind,speech, heart, limbs

etc and freedom to use them as you want. But he says that you are

not free of the results ie you will have to take responsibility of

your karma ie otherwise you will misuse your freedom. Free will and

kkarma are justice. Free will is nt only ours but everyones. For eg-

We might think that God has given us a free will and hit someone

because this is fredom which God has granted us but what about the

other person who you hit- doesnt he have the right to be protected

and done justice with. So this is karma.

Krishna says- " the karma is in your hands but the fruit is in mine,

do your karma Arjuna dont desire the fruit of karmas "

[Guest guest]

Perhaps a discussion on different types of Karma would be in order:

 

There are 4 main types of Karma:

 

1. Sanchita- This is sum total of all our Karma in our millions of lives.

 

2. Prarabdha- The Soul, using its own Free Will, chooses some Karma

from Sanchita to work out, & is born with those. Note again: The soul

uses its free will, so it cant complain or blame God.

 

3. Kriyaman- The actions we are doing today

 

4. Agam- Actions we plan to do in future.

 

3 & 4 type of Karma can be used to destroy Sanchit & Prarabdha.

However, even in Sanchit, there are 3 categories:

 

1. Fixed- These cant be changed, by any amount of work. Things like

death, marriage, children come under this category.

 

2. Fixed/Non-Fixed - These can be changed with some effort. Like doing

rituals, offering charity etc. Lot of effort/hard work can change

these Karmas. Like a person who is middle class, can by working very

hard, doing Puja to planets, giving charity, become rich even if his

Karma doesnt allow it.

 

3. Non-Fixed- These can be changed easily.

 

As you can see, there is plenty of scope for free will here.

 

I read this great thing somewhere- Free Will is like money- the more

you use it, the less you have this life, the less you use it, the

more you have!

 

love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

all answers are beautiful, dear dieto you are right planets donot control but

influence

aradhna ji , certainly our karmas are responsible for our future

 

and as u said, our karmas are due to our free " will "

 

now what is it which influence our " free will " ?

 

you all might not agree but i strongly believe that we are just a puppet in

this playground of the GOD.

[Guest guest]

yes,

 

be are all a part of his leela in the leela viduthi, for recreation of

lord. This whole manifest is a dream or like a movie for his

entertainment, and he is being entertained in his Yoga Nidra, Sleep of

Trance..

 

I wanted to tell this, but thought this is not the right thread, as

they are discussing the effects of celestial bodies.

 

very correct,

 

-- Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama harirnama Kevalam.

 

, so hum <jigyaasuu wrote:

> you all might not agree but i strongly believe that we are just a

puppet in this playground of the GOD.

>

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

>

> Perhaps a discussion on different types of Karma would be in order:

> 1. Fixed- These cant be changed, by any amount of work. Things like

> death, marriage, children come under this category.

 

Thanks shantnu, this was important to discuss different types of Karma

to know the basic workings of Karma philosophy.

 

Can you further elaborate why Fixed Karmas are fixed and why cant

they be changed even with any amount of Tapas or good karma.??

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

> Can you further elaborate why Fixed Karmas are fixed and why cant

> they be changed even with any amount of Tapas or good karma.??

 

There might be several reasons:

 

1. Particular Karmas may be important spiritual lessons you have to

learn this life- like if you were a violent person, you have to die a

violent death to feel the pain you caused to others. Even God wont

help you in this, as God never interferes with our spiritual progreess.

 

2. Sometimes, your Karma is strongly tied to others, & changing your

Karma might mean changing theirs too. If a man wants to become rich,

but his relatives are destined to be poor, he will never become rich,

as then not only his, but all his relatives Karma will have to be changed.

 

As another example, if Vivekanandas father had wanted to take Sanyaas,

it would have never happened. As he was destined to marry a particular

woman, & have Vivekanand as a child. Now Vivekanand has helped

millions of people spiritually. If his father had tried to take

Sanyaas, he would be fighting with spiritual Karma of that millions of

people.

 

Now, he had free will, & he could have tried, but it would be like ant

trying to wrestle an elephant.

 

In theory we can change any Karma, in practice the effor required

maybe so huge as to make it impossible in practice(esp as God wont

help us in these cases). So these Karma are called fixed.

 

love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

, so hum <jigyaasuu wrote:

>

> all answers are beautiful, dear dieto you are right planets donot

control but influence

> aradhna ji , certainly our karmas are responsible for our future

>

> and as u said, our karmas are due to our free " will "

>

> now what is it which influence our " free will " ?

>

> you all might not agree but i strongly believe that we are just a

puppet in this playground of the GOD.

 

>yes Jigyasu I do not believe that there is nothing such as free will.

There is so much freedom I think its wrong to say that God is making

you a puppet .Even though the strings are in his hands he isnt really

making you a " puppet " . Maybe its just a matter of perception. I dont

think at all that we are " puppets " .Freedom doent mean that God does nt

lay rules. Its like saying tht India isnt a free country because we

have to act according to laws otherwise we are punished.Because we have

to abide certain laws it doesnt make us puppets. God's plan is best and

greater than what we can ever percieve through our limited

perceptions.God alone gives freedom. Society, culture, nation etc never

can give you real freedom that is why people strive to attain freedom

through moksha or some other kind of mukti, God's servitude or

knowledge.Its true that nothing happens until God desires or wills but

in his will we shoyuld have faith because that will is our freedom ie

it gives us a lot of freedom.

 

regards

[Guest guest]

> God's plan is best and greater than what we can ever percieve

> through our limited perceptions.God alone gives freedom. Society,

> culture, nation etc never can give you real freedom that is why

> people strive to attain freedom through moksha

 

To put under accurate terms, we execute our will, under the control

of Lord, and this control is executed for our own good.

 

So, calling puppet may not be a right word, I dont have exact word

to describe this situation, but definitely not a total puppet..

puppets cannot make a choice, but we do . Thanks Aradhana.

 

-- Brother Deito

 

Harirnama Harirnama Harirnama Kevalam.

 

, " i_free_spirit " <i_free_spirit

wrote:

[Guest guest]

Aradhna ji you are also right and very correct,

actually we see things in different perspectives

 

at gross level of our budhhi, society, nation etc what you describe,

certainly we have freedom

 

but if you see the same from cosmic point of view, its all leela.

 

you see there are good and bad things in life, everyone know it

but same time if it is interpreted from some different angle then

there is nothing good or bad

 

thanks and regards

 

 

 

, " i_free_spirit " <i_free_spirit

wrote:

>> >yes Jigyasu I do not believe that there is nothing such as free

will.

> There is so much freedom I think its wrong to say that God is

making