Interview with Nawabzadaa Nabiullah Khan

[Guest guest]

thetranslation. -- Interview with Nawabzadaa Nabiullah Khan Interviewed by

Jalil Amir --- Q:Please tell us about your stay with Qazi Hussain Ahmed

A:Qazi has two bungalows in Peshawar. We spent lot of timein both the houses.

The first house is where his familylived and the second house was his office

and rest house. But he used to meet all his friends and relatives andpolitical

workers only in his family house. He made sure atleast for 3 days in a week,

Qazi and his close friends usedto spend time in his rest house. Unlike his

family house,the rest house had all the amenities that one can think of.It had

36-inch television. 2 satellite dishes to receiveall kinds of telecasts from

all over the world. He had madeextensive notes on all the telecasts. We used to

discussall the things under the sun

in his rest house. I had a habit of drinking small amounts of wine. Qazi

neverdrank or smoked. Qazi knew about my weakness for wine. Headvised me not to

drink and asked me to follow the steps ofProphet Mohammad (PBUH) . Though I had

a habit of drinkingonly in very small amounts of fine wine just before

dinner,on Qazi's insistence, I left that habit. When I wasstudying in

engineering college, I had started the habit ofsmoking too. I left that habit

after Qazi's advice onsmoking. I stayed with Qazi for almost 6 years in

Peshawar. I didnot agree to some of the strategies used by JI during theafter

Zia years. Qazi is a very practical man while I wasmore of an idealist at that

time. I was insisting that theJI should not rely on ballot as the only route to

power.Qazi was insisting that ballot is the only way for JI tocome to power in

Pakistan.

This introduced a sense ofalienation between Qazi and me. Hence when I went

toBaluchistan to meet my parents, I stayed back rather thangoing back to

Peshawar. Even though almost weekly once wetalk over phone, Qazi never called

me back to stay with himand I found my work as the Jamaat teacher in Quetta

where Istay now with my parents and family. Yet, my years with Qazi in

Peshawar and around the worldwith him were the most satisfying years in my

lifeintellectually. Q: What are Qazi's views on Islam and Prophet

Mohammad(PBUH) A: Qazi was a great admirer and student of Prophet

Mohammad(PBUH) . He modeled his whole thoughts and life on the lifeand

teachings of Mohammad (PBUH). I was astounded manytimes by Qazi when he does a

small thing, he willimmediately

compare that incident with an incident in Al-Hadith and explain that he did what

Prophet Mohammad (PBUH)did 10 centuries ago. I had never seen a person who

hadmodeled his whole life on sayings and teachings of ProphetMohammad (PBUH)

like Qazi. Q: The women issue is very controversial nowadays. Talibanand some

fundamentalist organizations restrict the freedomof women. While some

progressive Muslim intellectuals areinsisting that the women are equal to men

in all spheres.What are Qazi's views on women? A: As I said earlier, the

Prophet Mohammad (PBUH)'s viewson women are the exact views of Qazi. Equality

of men andwomen is stupidity. What men can do, women cannot do andwhat women

can do, men cannot do. Women are weak physicallyand mentally compared to men.

For this we do not need anyproof other than to just look at men and women.

Men have totake care of women all the time. If some women do not haveany male

relatives, then they have to find a man and marryhim so that he will take care

of her. Women should not havelife outside the family. Education can be provided

to thembut not to compete with men in public. Neither they canfight in war nor

they can be of use in peacetime politics.Qazi had said once that JI comes to

power in Pakistan, hewill abolish the voting rights of women and minorities.

Only the Muslim men can participate in voting or standingfor elections. When I

asked the proof from Hadiths, he hadquoted many Hadiths in support of that. I

asked him why isthat it is never talked openly in the public by Jamaat.Qazi had

said that the hints are all over the place. But JIdid not make it a big issue

since the women who currentlyhave the voting may vote against JI in the

elections ifsuch a thing is said openly. For this I was against.

in myopinion, since all the main leaders of Jamaat believes thatwomen will not

have voting rights after they come to power,they should openly say that. If you

do not say now and thenyou remove the voting rights later when you come to

power,that is going to build a resentment among the people. ButQazi was firmly

of the opinion that JI should not say thatnow. Q:That brings us to the

question of minorities. Will theyhave to pay Jizya tax? A:Yes. They have to

pay the tax. As explained by Qazi, theidea of Jizya is not protection money.

But it is a monetaryforce on the non-Muslim to convert to Islam. Once theJamaat

comes to power, the minorities will be induced(forced) to become Muslims either

by monetary orpsychological factors. JI is already equating the Indiawith

Hindus so that the Hindus of Pakistan will be

forcedto become Muslims. This was very successful strategy duringthe Babri

Masjid riots. JI actively involved in destroyingthe Hindu temples in Punjab and

Sindh. We ordered thedestruction of the Hindu family property too. But our

mainaim was to destroy the Hindu temples. We wrote the JIpamphlets that

destroying each pagan temple make a Muslimmove closer to heaven of Allah. We

used the Hadiths in allthe pamphlets. Babar destroyed the Ram temple in

Ayodhya.Because he was a true believer. The same way every Muslimshould take

upon himself to destroy the Hindu temples inPakistan. Our idea was to encourage

the Muslims of Indiaalso to destroy the Hindu temples in India. But this wasnot

met with much success since the Hindu police in Indiastarted attacking the

Muslims who were doing the Allah'sduty. Q: What kind of government that JI

envisages for Pakistan? A: It will be the Sharia govt. Sharia will be made

ourconstitution so that the eminent Muslim scholars who hadcompleted the

schooling in Madrassas will be appointed asthe Judges in every court. Qazi

wanted to make thepresidium on the same model as the Khalifa. Presently

ourideas is that the entire top leadership of JI as well asall three military

Generals will be part of the presidiumfor which the Qazi will be the Kalifa. We

are keenlywatching the progress of Taliban and learning from it. Weare impressed

with the Taliban on the women issue,minorities issue and law and order issue.

Mullah Omar is agreat friend of Qazi. Omar had visited his house manytimes. In

the tentative talks, we had decided to form unionof Pakistan and Afghanistan

once the right conditions areset in Pakistan (i.e. the JI government in

Pakistan). Ourmotto is Constant Jihad. The idea is to keep Pakistan in

aconstant

state of Jihad all the time. Qazi's vision is thatPakistan will be center of the

new Islamic Empire thatstretches from Burma to Afghanistan and from Srilanka

toTajikistan including Kashmir. Towards that end, Jamaat willuse all tactics

from terrorism in the kafir-controlledareas to negotiations in the Muslim

controlled areas. Already the Jamaat leaders of Bangladesh and Jamaat leadersof

India had accepted the primacy of Pakistani leadershipin this regard. Q: Do

they come to Pakistan? A: Yes. We had made arrangements once in Peshawar

andanother time in Multan during the Zia time. But theunderstanding remains

even now. Q: What about Srilanka and Burma? A: Both are Buddhist nations.

For that matter

evenBaluchistan and Afghanistan were Buddhist once while Sindhand Punjab were

Hindu earlier. Buddhists are generallyweaker in matters of faith. Hence we hope

they will becomeMuslim with a little pressure. But that will happen onlyafter

Jamaat conquers first Pakistan and then India. Q: What are the plans for

India? It looks like entire Indiapolicy of Jamaat revolves around Kashmir. A:

Yes that is true. But that is for a very good reason.See Kashmir is like a

keystone that sits on a top of thearch. It is true that the arch holds the

entire weight ofthe keystone. But if you remove the keystone, then thewhole

arch falls down. That is why it is called keystone.Kashmir is the keystone for

India. Once you remove that,then India can no longer be secular and it will not

be aunited country either. like the stones of the arch, all

thebricks will fall down. Qazi impressed this idea upon Zia. Hence Zia started

the Operation Topac. Operation Topac'sidea is not to get Kashmir for Pakistan

as thought of byIndian analysts. Operation Topac is much more. The ultimateaim

of Operation Topac is to make India a million pieces sothat it is easy for

Pakistan to swallow India once piece ata time. That is why Pakistan was

encouraging the militancymovements all over India. Once Kashmir is taken out,

thesemilitancy movements will break India by asking the similarfreedom for

Nagaland, Kerala, Mizoram, Meghalaya, Manipur,Assam, Jharkand, Tamil Nadu, West

Bengal and Khalistan. ButBenazir destroyed our whole plan by giving away the

detailsof the operation Topac to Indian govt. led by Rajiv Gandhi.That was a

big set back for our vision. But yet we aremoving ahead. Q: I heard that she

gave away only

details about Khalistanmovement. A: That is true. In my opinion, that is why I

think thedamage is limited. India thinks and deals with separatistmovements in

different parts of India as if they aregenuine movements even now. In that way,

I say, the damageis limited. Q: Do you think if the states if India became

independentcountries, no such similar movement will start in Pakistanitself?

A: No. Jiye Sindh movement and small separatist movementsin Baluchistan and

Peshawar are contained. We are not goingto deal with the separatism in Pakistan

as India treats theseparatists. It will be Taliban style. Actually we do

notforesee any position for opposition in JI ruled Pakistan.Hence the BNP and

Pakhtoonkwa leaders will be madeirrelevant. A: Coming back to the same point,

If India to become manycountries how do you deal with the individual Hindu

states.They may even become big enemies of Pakistan. Or they mayagain regroup

to challenge Pakistan. A: Qazi and other people had already discussed

thispossibility. In our opinion, such a thing is not possiblesince the language

and cultural differences between statesin India are enormous. There is no

language like Urdu tobind all Indians. English and not Hindi that is

commonlanguage between all the states of India. Hence we haveplanned to start

riots in each state against theneighborhood state people so that the states

will always beat the state of war. For example there are lot ofKannadigas in

TamilNadu and Telugu in Madras. We will startthe anti -telugu riots in Madras,

which will keep theAndhrapradesh and

TamilNadu fighting. If we keep a bomb inTelugu Cinema Theater in Madras and keep

a bomb in TamilMovie Theater in Andhra, the war between Tamilnadu andAndhra will

run for eternity. The similar things can bedone in Assam cultural center in

Bengal and Hindi pracharsabha in Orissa. Given the differences between

thenationalities in India, the options for Pakistan areendless. Qazi's vision

is to make entire India a 100%Muslim Nation. A United India, where Hindus are

majority isan impediment to that. Like Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) madeMuslims out

of pagans of Arabia, Qazi also wants to makeMuslims out of the pagans of India.

Q: This is a great vision since this was not even possiblefor the Muslim

dynasties and Moguls who ruled India for thelast 700 years. A: True. That is

because they had never really establishedthe Muslim Empire.

Though the Kings were Muslims they hadentertained the Hindus in positions of

power. When you makean unequivocal statement that only Muslims are voters

anddeclare that India is Islamic republic, then automaticallythe people will

become Muslims. Little bit of terror had tobe applied to the heart of Hindus

and Christians. I willgive you a best example. The portions now

constitutePakistan had 25% Hindu population before Independence.After

independence lot of Hindus migrated to India. Yetafter the migration, Pakistani

Hindu population was 15%. Doyou know what is the percentage now? It is less than

1%. How was this made possible? How did the Hindus converted toIslam in a short

span of 20 years whereas for 700 yearsthey had never converted to Islam? That

is purely becauseof the terror of the partition. That terror forced theHindus

who remained in Pakistan to become Muslims. Pure andsimple. JI used similar

techniques in Punjab and Sindh eachtime a riot breaks out in India, we had used

that pretextto strike terror among the Hindus, Christians andAhmaddiahs. The

similar terror will be at the heart of theevery non-Muslim both Hindu as well

as Christian in comingyears in entire India. Qazi is a analytical genius

whoknows every strategy that is used by Prophet Mohammad(PBUH) will be and

should be used in India to achieve thetotal submission to Allah. Q: Do you

envision a possibility that when the Kashmirbecomes part of Pakistan, there

could be large-scale riotsin India against Indian Muslims? Hence unwittingly

Kashmircould lead to more deaths of Indian Muslims and damageIslamic Ummah.

A: Yes that is a possibility. But our ideology is based onQuran and Hadiths.

Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) in numerousHadiths and Allah in Quran had said

that any Muslim whoassociates with a polytheist in a polytheist. Muslimscannot

be friendly with a non-Muslim. This includes theChristians, Jews and Hindus.

Also Mohammad (PBUH) says thateven if the Muslim ruler is not good, the Muslims

stay withthe ruler than to go out to a non-Muslim country. Hadithsand Quran are

very explicit regarding this. All the Muslimswho did not migrate to Pakistan

during Partition are inessence Hindus. They may think that they are Muslims.

Butnot before Allah. They are as self-deluded as theAhmaddiahs who think they

are Muslims when everyone knowsthat they are not Muslims. Hence the Muslims of

India whohad decided to stay in India during partition are notMuslims and their

progeny are not Muslim (since they didnot migrate to Muslim lands). Another

thing that I noticedin my journeys in India is that the Hindu farmers

generallyoffer their entire harvest to their gods at the end oftheir

harvesting season. This makes the entire crop asharam for Muslims. Yet these

so called Muslims of India areforced to eat this food which was already offered

to someother God other than Allah thallah. This is explicitlyforbidden in Quran.

And this is one of the serious problemsof living in non-Muslim countries.

Prophet Mohammad (PBUH)knew such things; that is why he ordered Muslims not

tolive in non-Muslim areas. Yet knowingly these so calledMuslims live in India.

Again all the Muslims who migrate toother countries and US are non-Muslims. Only

the Muslimswho intend to come back are Muslims not the ones who decideto stay in

such countries. Hence we do not care if such Indian Muslims die in theriots.

But due to strategy reasons we do have excellentrelations with these Muslims.

All the Muslims who work forPakistan and for glory of Ummah are

real Muslims. They areour front line troops in non-Muslim countries. Hence

wehave to distribute the arms and ammunitions to these realMuslims in case of

riots come to their door. Whereas the Kashmiri Muslims are pure Muslims who

aretoiling under the yoke of Hindu rule. They are victimizedby the

international conspiracy to keep them under theHindu rule. That issue is part

of the incomplete partition.Whereas the Indian Muslims have accepted partition

andstayed on in India knowingly. Q: Yet the popular uprising in Kashmir was

missing in 1965as well as in 1948. A: That is true. That may be because of

the clout of SheikAbdullah of Kashmir during 1948 war. Actually the

Muslimpopulation in Jammu Kashmir was only marginally higher thanHindus.

Muslims constituted 58%

while the non-Muslimsconstituted the 42%. Hence the operation Topac aimed

ateliminating the Kashmiri Pandits from the valley. Wethought all of them will

go to India. Instead many went toJammu and only very little went to India.

Hence we had toask Harkatul to start terrorising the Hindus in Jammu. Wealso

expected large scale war against Muslims in Jammu aswell as in all the parts of

India because of the killings.Indian govt suppressed these information. Another

thingthat was not done is the complete removal of Buddhists andHindus from

Jammu and Kashmir. We could do only in Valleyand not in jammu and Ladakh. Hence

the population ofMuslims in Jammu and Kashmir is around 65% only accordingto

Harkatul. Q: Tell us about your stay in Saudi Arabia. A: We embarked on a

Umra as team of JI leaders. of course,Zia had arranged every

convenience for us. We wereaccommodated in a Sheik's house. He is one of the

richestBuilders in Saudi Arabia. He owns few gold shops in Qatartoo. Sheik was

a personal friend of Zia Ul Haq. During thetime of Zia, we were not politically

active. Since Zia didwhatever Qazi wanted, there was no need for political

powereither. Hence we had lot of time. That is the main reasonwhy we stayed 3

full months in Sheik's palace. This sheikcomes from a Bedouin family of

southwestern Arabia. He hadthe habit of drinking camel urine and camel milk

early inthe morning. I asked him why does he do that? He repliedthat it is the

family tradition as well as Islamic practicethat is supported by Prophet

Mohammad (PBUH). I was astounded. But Qazi explained to me that it is true.

Hetold me three or four Hadiths in which the camel urine andcamel milk drinking

is suggested. So Qazi wanted to drinkthe camel urine and

camel milk along with the Sheik. SinceI could not bring up myself to drink the

camel urine, Idrank only fresh camel milk, which was thick and frothy.But Qazi

drank the camel urine and camel milk the sameamount and same time as the sheik.

Qazi astounded me inthis incident. I am amazed by the fact that Qazi was readyto

go any length to mould his life in the teachings of theprophet. Q: Does he

continue to do that even today? A: No. He bought a camel after coming to

Pakistan. Threeyears later he had kidney stones problem. As per thedoctor's

advice he had to stop drinking the urine while hecontinued the drinking camel

milk. Doctor advised him tostop drinking the milk as well since the camel milk

is richin calcium compared to the cow milk. I think he stoppeddrinking any milk

or milk products. But he had said thatonce

JI comes to power in Pakistan, he will popularize thecamel milk and camel urine

drinking in Pakistan. But Idoubt he can do that. In my opinion, only camel milk

can bepopularized. Q: That is quite news to me. How was your stay in

Arabiaotherwise? A: First I have to tell you that Saudi Arabia, as a

countryname, is wrong. It is Just Arabia. Only that Saudi dynastyrules over

some parts of Arabia. You cannot put your namebefore a holyland as if you own

that land. For Pakistan ifNawaz rules it, will it become Sheriff Pakistan

andtomorrow Bhutto rules it and will it become BhuttoPakistan? Anyway, one

thing we noticed is that the Arabians ownslaves. Though Allah says that the

slaves should be treatedin a nice manner, he did not advocate the abolition

ofslavery. If

slavery is bad as considered in today's world,Allah certainly would have said

that the slavery is wrong.Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) also said that the slaves

should betreated in a good manner and the slaves should be releasedoften. But

if there is no slavery how can anyone releaseslaves? Hence the reintroduction

of slavery in Pakistan isone of the future plans of Jamaat. All the captured

HinduIndians and Srilankans will be made slaves to work forPakistani Muslims.

Every God abiding Pakistani Muslim willget slaves once we conquer India. All

the slaves whoembrace Islam will be set free. Slavery is Islamic. Jamaatis the

only political party, which does not voice anyopposition to the slavery of

Harees (defeated) in Pakistan. We went around all over Arabia. We were

surprised to knowthat there are some Hindus in Yemen. These ancient

YemeniHindus are not Indians. In my opinion,

these Hindus aretraders from India in the ancient times. I was alsosurprised to

know that they have a Shiva temple in Yemen.Qazi was very unhappy over this.

When he talked to Yemenleaders, he broached this subject. But the Yemeni

leadersrefused Qazi's suggestion of forced conversion of thesepeople to Islam.

I don't know why they refuse. I think itmay be due to the large population of

Hindus from India whowork in Yemen and Arabia. He disliked the

currentleadership of Arabia for this reason. In his opinion,Arabia should not

allow any non-Muslim into holy lands ofArabia. Arabia should be 100% pure.

Large number of Hindusin Arabia is corrupting the Arabians. Though they live

ascontractors, they have the potential of corrupting theminds of the Arabians.

One such thing is the presence ofArabians in Qatar Hindu temple. First the king

allowed theHindus to build a temple and church in the holy lands thereby

polluting the

Holy Land. Second is that even a member ofthe Royal family visit that temple to

inaugurate thattemple. To the horror of Qazi he had learnt that one of

thepowerful member of Qatar royal family is a devotee of a godcalled Aayanppan.

This news resolved Qazi to fight theforce of the devil thousand fold. Q: Such

things happen in Pakistan today. I mean a friend ofmine goes to a Hindu temple.

Another friend goes to churchmeetings. A: Yes. One of Qazi's relatives wanted

to become a Hindu.He did not have a child for many years and it seems he

hadprayed to a Hindu God and got the child. Hence he feltthankful to that god

and wanted to become a Hindu. Qazi gotto know of this and called him and

threatened him direconsequences. That relative did not become a Hindu. Butthat

incident made Qazi read more about apostasy. Quran

andHadith clearly say the punishment for abandonment of Islamis death. Since

Sharia is not the law in Pakistan, and thecurrent Pakistani constitution grants

right to change thereligion, it is legally correct to declare oneself as Hinduor

Christian. But once JI takes over the government, itwill make Sharia as the

constitution. Then Pakistan alsolegally execute any person who leaves Islam and

joinsAhmaddiah, Christianity or Hinduism the same way Iran andTaliban treats its

apostates. He also opined that thepresence of the Hindu temples in Pakistan is

the root causeof the problem and hence we want to destroy all the Hindutemples

and Churches in Pakistan. Q: This brings us into another area. Right now

Internet isbecoming widespread. Even Saudi Arabia is connected withoutside

world. Destroying the temples may be good but howwe can insulate the Pakistani

and Muslim people

against thecorrupting knowledge totally? A: JI had taken a principled stand on

the matter of scienceand religion. Religion is far superior to science.

Whateverman needs to know is in Quran and Hadiths. Knowing morewill create

problems like the Atom bomb and Television.Quran and Hadiths are explicit in

denouncing pictures. Yetthe lure of Satan in the form of photography and

televisionis eating our lives. Music previously was confined only tothe vocal

singing. Now science and technology made themusic widespread at a cheaper

price. These are the lures ofSatan. We have to on guard against these harami

things. Hence more science and technology is bad for thecivilization. I had

completed civil engineering. Hence I amprivy to scientific knowledge. I can

tell you howcorrupting that is. It even makes you question the gloriousQuran.

There are many

Hadiths, which say that the earth isflat. But any science will tell you the

earth is a sphere.But you can use the same science like relativity theory

toprove that the earth is flat. It is the same case withevolution. But the

point being that the doubt is sown inthe minds of the people on the validity of

Quran as theword of God. More and more we work hard in proving theQuran's

scientific correctness, more and more people willget apprehensive of the truth

of Quran. This is anabomination. This is why when we talk of education, we

talkof religious education and not scientific education. It is true that

science grew after Prophet's revolution inArabia. That was start of science.

Now each and everyscience is filled with anti-god stuff. If you want tobecome a

doctor, you have to read evolution. If you have toread any engineering you have

to believe in the billions ofyears

old universe theory which effectively says that thehuman beings came to world

only in just one or two millionyears back. Q: But we still need the arms and

knowledge of westernworld, which believes in science. And again you hadreferred

to television as evil. If we abolish photographyhow can we have passports or

identification cards? A: Yes. That is strategic. With the help of Allah, we

willbe given oil for them to run their cars and we will havearms in that place.

We will use their arms to destroy themin the course of time. As for as photos

are concerned, theywill be banned as it is done in Afghanistan. If there is

noneed for people to go out of Pakistan where is the need forthe passports? For

those who have to travel to othercountries like the leaders of the revolution,

they onlywill be given the passport with photos. For that, we willallow

limited photography licensed only to govt. And thebiggest corruption in today's

Pakistan is Indian satelliteTV and Indian cinemas and Indian

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