What is the difference between Atman & manah

Om Om everyone,

I take this mind to be Atman. Is it correct? Kindly help me to

clear this confusion.What's the detailed meaning of the under written

syllable from Veda -----

Om yjjAgrato dUrmuDaIti dAivam tadusuptasya tathaIvaIti.

dUrangmanjyotiSHAm jyotirekam tanme manah SHivasankalpamastu.

Kindly guide me. Dhananjaya Agrawal.

advaitin, "Dhananjaya Agrawal"

<dhananjayaagrawal wrote:

>

> Om Om everyone,

>

> I take this mind to be Atman. Is it correct? Kindly help me to

> clear this confusion.What's the detailed meaning of the under written

> syllable from Veda -----

>

> Om yjjAgrato dUrmuDaIti dAivam tadusuptasya tathaIvaIti.

> dUrangmanjyotiSHAm jyotirekam tanme manah SHivasankalpamastu.

>

> Kindly guide me. Dhananjaya Agrawal.

Namaste, Dhananjaya-ji

As far as Atman is concerned, please wait for the weekly definition of

Atman, scheduled for the 8th January. Mind is a constituent of the

human body-mind-intellect complex. Mind is not the Atman. To know more

about it please go to any of the files in the advaitin home page, which

has advaita for beginners. Or go to my website:

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/HNG/ManversusMind.html

Regarding the Sanskrit shloka you have quoted, here is the corrected

version:

yat jAgrato dUram udaiti daivam tadu suptasya tathaiveti /

dUram-gamam jyotiShAm jyotir-ekam tan-me manaH shiva-sankalpam-astu //

Meaning: What goes far away from the waking, as also from the sleeping,

that Divinity which is the distant Light of Lights -- may my mind rest

on the auspicious Will of that Divine!

This is mantra 8 of 37 mantras from Shukla Yajur Veda, that are

usually recited as a preliminary invocation in the elaborate Shanti

regimen called MahAnyAsa-rudra-abhisheka of Lord Shiva, wherein 11

pandits recite Shri Rudram 11 times and do the abhisheka of Lord Shiva.

All the 37 mantras have the same ending refrain: "tan-me manaH shiva-

sankalpam-astu".

PraNAms to all devotees of Lord Shiva

profvk

Namaste Dhananjay ji , Here is a very beautiful extract from Kena

upanishad. I cannot explain it, you would have to study the meaning

yourself or with Guru's help and contemplate on it.

"I-5. That which one does not think with the mind, that by which,

they say, the mind is thought, know That alone to be Brahman, and

not this (non-Brahman) which is being worshipped."

Hopefully you will appreciate that Atman is not same as manah from

this.

(By the way, Atman is same as Brahman as far as I know.)

regards,

Om Namah Sivaya

advaitin, "Dhananjaya Agrawal"

<dhananjayaagrawal wrote:

>

> Om Om everyone,

>

> I take this mind to be Atman. Is it correct? Kindly help me to

> clear this confusion.What's the detailed meaning of the under

written

> syllable from Veda -----

>

> Om yjjAgrato dUrmuDaIti dAivam tadusuptasya tathaIvaIti.

> dUrangmanjyotiSHAm jyotirekam tanme manah

SHivasankalpamastu.

>

> Kindly guide me. Dhananjaya Agrawal.

>

advaitin, "Dhananjaya Agrawal"

<dhananjayaagrawal wrote:

>

> Om Om everyone,

>

> I take this mind to be Atman. Is it correct? Kindly help me to

> clear this confusion.What's the detailed meaning of the under written

> syllable from Veda -----

>

> Om yjjAgrato dUrmuDaIti dAivam tadusuptasya tathaIvaIti.

> dUrangmanjyotiSHAm jyotirekam tanme manah SHivasankalpamastu.

>

> Kindly guide me. Dhananjaya Agrawal.

>

Namaste,

One way of looking at the question without going into Vedantic

terminologies would be:

mana Eva manuShyANAm kAraNam bandha-mokShayOH |

bandhAya viShayAsaktam muktyair-nirviShayam smRtam ||

The mind alone is the cause of bondage. The mind alone is the cause

of liberation as well. The mind given to 'objectification' (engrossed

in sense objects) constitutes bondage. When the mind, through

saadhana, becomes free from the hold of objects, there ensues

liberation. All sadhana is to accomplish this end.

Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa says: A pure mind is none other than

Atman. A Christian saying is: Blessed are the pure at heart for they

shall see God.

Warm regards,

subbu

Om Tat Sat

Om Om Sh. Subrahmanian ji,

I am grateful to u. I am now very much satisfied. But another question

arises, and that is, if the pure mind is Atman then what about other Jivas,

because all other Jivas must have Atman, but they can't have Atman in the

form of mind, because that is something special has been blessed to human

beings only and probably that is why it is said that human birth is the

gateway for liberation?

May be I am not asking a proper question, but whatever I had in my

mind, I have put before u people. I don't want to make simply keep arguing,

but I am very much interested to know about deep knowledge, that is why,

having faith and confidence, asking u people. I think if I would be wrong, u

people being respected for me, forgive me. Dhananjaya Agrawal.

On 1/8/07, subrahmanian_v <subrahmanian_v > wrote:

>

> advaitin <advaitin%40>,

> "Dhananjaya Agrawal"

> <dhananjayaagrawal wrote:

> >

> > Om Om everyone,

> >

> > I take this mind to be Atman. Is it correct? Kindly help me to

> > clear this confusion.What's the detailed meaning of the under written

> > syllable from Veda -----

> >

> > Om yjjAgrato dUrmuDaIti dAivam tadusuptasya tathaIvaIti.

> > dUrangmanjyotiSHAm jyotirekam tanme manah SHivasankalpamastu.

> >

> > Kindly guide me. Dhananjaya Agrawal.

> >

> Namaste,

>

> One way of looking at the question without going into Vedantic

> terminologies would be:

>

> mana Eva manuShyANAm kAraNam bandha-mokShayOH |

> bandhAya viShayAsaktam muktyair-nirviShayam smRtam ||

>

> The mind alone is the cause of bondage. The mind alone is the cause

> of liberation as well. The mind given to 'objectification' (engrossed

> in sense objects) constitutes bondage. When the mind, through

> saadhana, becomes free from the hold of objects, there ensues

> liberation. All sadhana is to accomplish this end.

>

> Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa says: A pure mind is none other than

> Atman. A Christian saying is: Blessed are the pure at heart for they

> shall see God.

>

> Warm regards,

> subbu

> Om Tat Sat

>

>

>

Dhananjaya-ji,

A few examples why we cannot equate mind with Atman

1. We are able to cognize mind, by the varying states of the mind like

happiness, sadness, logical thinking, doubt, desire, shyness etc. So

Mind is an object available for perception. Anything which is

available for cognition cannot be Atman. The one who perceives these

changes is Atman.

2. In dreamless state, mind(which comprises of activities like

sensing, thinking, feeling) is not discernable/ does not exist. The

one who is present in all states of waking, dreaming and dreamless

states is Atman.

3. Mind gets agitated and goes through other modifications too.

Anything that is subject to change cannot be Atman.

4. Mind is an agent and instrument of action. Self/Atman cannot be a doer.

5. When there is no thought, there is no mind. But Atman is.

Regards,

Ravi

This is mantra 8 of 37 mantras from Shukla Yajur Veda, that are

usually recited as a preliminary invocation in the elaborate Shanti

regimen called MahAnyAsa-rudra-abhisheka of Lord Shiva, wherein 11

pandits recite Shri Rudram 11 times and do the abhisheka of Lord Shiva.

All the 37 mantras have the same ending refrain: "tan-me manaH shiva-

sankalpam-astu".

praNAms Sri Prof. VK prabhuji

Hare Krishna

Not only in *rudraikAdashani* even in yEkavAra / yEkAdashavAra

rudrabhisheka we, here in South India, especially in smArtha saMpradAya,

recite mahAnyAsa depends upon time availability. In saNkalpa, we say

mahanyAsa/laghunyAsa pUrvaka, anyOnya sahayEna yEkavAra/yEkAdashavAra

rudrAbhisheka karma krishyamANaH...etc. In mahAnyAsa shivasankalpa mAntra

used in *anga nyAsa* and after reciting at the end we say Om namo bhagavate

rudrAya, shiva saNkalpagaM hrudayaya namaH...Like this as you know, we

recite purusha sUkta, uttara nArAyaNa, paNchAnga rUdra, apratiratha

kavachaM, AshushshishAno maNtra etc. in anga nyAsa, karanyAsa of mahAnyAsa

maNtra..

I know above para is full of sanskrit terminologies...but it is a fact

that I donot know how to translate these Sanskrit terms in English...Those

who are familiar with these rituals can grasp it...others, kindly bear with

me.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk

wrote:

>

> Namaste, Sudesh-ji,

>

This does not mean that the Atman is sitting inside the Jiva

> as the nucleus is sitting inside the atom. Atman pervades

everything; Jiva and the matter envelope are only waves that come

and go.]

>

>

> PraNAms to all advaitins

> profvk

>

Thank you very much Prof VK Ji,

Your posts are always aimed at clearing the doubts than proving a

point.

Intellectually I am trapped with the idea that Atman is inside this

Jiva, as you said like a nucleus inside an atom. I think it takes lot

of reflection and meditation to get that concept cleared.

I think the confusion is primarily due to fact that all efforts in

many birth cycles are towards liberating this Jiva and that if my

neighbor becomes a Jivanmukta, that does not liberate the Atman

associated with my Jiva.

As I am typing this I am realizing that it is Jiva that gets

Liberation (moksha) not the Atman

I think with your answer I made an incremental progress in my

understanding.

Regards

Sudesh Pillutla

Dear Sri Sudesh

> Thank you very much Prof VK Ji,

>

> Your posts are always aimed at clearing the doubts than proving a

> point.

Prof VK is a divya vibhuti of Bhagavan for this list. Personally, I

have benefitted immensely from his messages and his websites. I am

assuming you know his website but here it is anyway

http://www.geocities.com/profvk

>> I think the confusion is primarily due to fact that all efforts

in

> many birth cycles are towards liberating this Jiva and that if my

> neighbor becomes a Jivanmukta, that does not liberate the Atman

> associated with my Jiva.

Please study Prof VK's messages

advaitin/message/33904

advaitin/message/33905

Also, please study the verse in Gita chapter 15 which describes how

the mind and 5 senses carry vasanas/impressions from previous births.

Om Namah Sivaya

>

> As I am typing this I am realizing that it is Jiva that gets

> Liberation (moksha) not the Atman