Guest guest Report post Posted November 19, 2003 again, it's not about labeling self, but about labeling food...although, i would argue that calling oneself something like " vegan " or " vegetarian " but not actually being the thing is misrepresentation. I do believe that people who make these claims while not actually living the life are doing so to achieve a type of status...not that being vegan or vegetarian is that one is " better " in some way...but that some call themselves that in order to be perceived as something they are not...that is what I think many true vegans or vegetarians take offense with...if that makes sense On Tue, 18 Nov 2003, Fluff wrote: > I don't understand why folks feel the need to label themselves so vehemently when it comes to vegan, vegetarian, fruitarian, etc. I chose to stop eating meat mainly because my daughter became a veggie about 3 years ago and converted me. I do understand that eating factory farmed eggs and dairy is basically murder, but I don't understand why someone would have a problem with, say, my eggs from my chickens, who are treated wonderfully and will live to ripe old ages. They are going to lay the eggs regardless of whether we use them or not. So, why not? It seems wasteful not to! And BTW, this is a VEGAN RECIPE list, there are other lists which talk about these matters. I'm sure some people are, like me, on here because of a family member's choice of veganism. If people choose to use honey or whatever, that is their personal choice. We are all on our own journey; I'm sure most of us here used to eat meat and thought it was just fine! Jan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2003 but that some call themselves that in order to be perceived as something they are not... It seems to me that there is some guilt involved in eating meat nowadays. Whenever I casually mention to people that I am a vegetarian, 99% of the time they will come back with "Well, I eat very little red meat, in fact I could probably live without it." Years ago I was invited to a Thanksgiving dinner (where there was virtually nothing I could eat!) and told that they knew I was a vegetarian, but figured I probably eat turkey on Thanksgiving. I once met a person who said he was a vegetarian, but added that he ate hamburgers once in awhile. These things make me laugh more than they make me mad. I don't think they are deliberately lying, except maybe to themselves. Many people have no idea that a vegetarian eats NO meat, NO fish, NO chicken, NO turkey... NONE!!!! EVER! Lol ! Gloria Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2003 unfortunately that is not true where i live ;the most popular diet here is the Atkins plan. the high protein /low carb craze is going strong ....its nearly impossible to find vegan cheeses and chocolate at my local healthfood store. I have to special order mine .the low carb atkins diet plan foods are multiplying more and more on every aisle ! t It seems to me that there is some guilt involved in eating meat nowadays. Whenever I casually mention to people that I am a vegetarian, 99% of the time they will come back with "Well, I eat very little red meat, in fact I could probably live without it." Years ago I was invited to a Thanksgiving dinner (where there was virtually nothing I could eat!) and told that they knew I was a vegetarian, but figured I probably eat turkey on Thanksgiving. I once met a person who said he was a vegetarian, but added that he ate hamburgers once in awhile. These things make me laugh more than they make me mad. I don't think they are deliberately lying, except maybe to themselves. Many people have no idea that a vegetarian eats NO meat, NO fish, NO chicken, NO turkey... NONE!!!! EVER! Lol !Gloria Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2003 I believe that the two types of people most easily converted to vegeterianism/veganism are those that act guilty about it, like Gloria has seen and those that are combative about it...because that's usually rooted in a some sort of guilt...you know, the people who harass you about it even though you leave them be about their lifestyle choices...the ones that are cool and act as if it's no big thing are the ones that will most often be meat eaters for life...just from my own experience, this seems to hold true. On Tue, 25 Nov 2003, outonalimb wrote: > > unfortunately that is not true where i live ;the most popular diet here is the Atkins plan. the high protein /low carb craze is going strong ....its nearly impossible to find vegan cheeses and chocolate at my local healthfood store. I have to special order mine .the low carb atkins diet plan foods are multiplying more and more on every aisle ! > t > > > It seems to me that there is some guilt involved in eating meat nowadays. Whenever I casually mention to people that I am a vegetarian, 99% of the time they will come back with " Well, I eat very little red meat, in fact I could probably live without it. " Years ago I was invited to a Thanksgiving dinner (where there was virtually nothing I could eat!) and told that they knew I was a vegetarian, but figured I probably eat turkey on Thanksgiving. I once met a person who said he was a vegetarian, but added that he ate hamburgers once in awhile. These things make me laugh more than they make me mad. I don't think they are deliberately lying, except maybe to themselves. Many people have no idea that a vegetarian eats NO meat, NO fish, NO chicken, NO turkey... NONE!!!! EVER! Lol ! > > Gloria > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2003 in my community the population is predominately over 60 and these people have been firmly indoctrinated throughout their lives that humans "Need" meat in order to be healthy ... the huge surge in soy products has helped some but the resurgence of the atkins plan has counteracted it ;at least that's my experience in my area . We take a lot of harassment from those folks ,as well as good intentioned teasing from the under 50 crowd about our veganism ( many of these folks are of the feeling guilty group i believe ) . The older people tend to view it as a poor health choice and also see it as a scarlet letter of a sort . vegetarianism still =social deviant to many of them . I think that there is defiantly a strong trend towards vegetarianism in America and that's a wonderful thing ! Guilt is a sign of growing awareness - i don't know about anyone else but that's what motivated our evolution from vegetarian to vegan . Each choice away from animal products we made has enriched our spirits we have pretty well mastered the dietary aspects of veganism but are still working on weeding out the hidden animal products in other areas - We live in a small central Florida community that's a bit behind the times .... sometimes i long for a trip to Seattle or CA just to go restaurant hopping or shop in a health food store where someone who owns ,manages or works in the place actually is a vegan and can offer experienced advice on products! LOL ~ t I believe that the two types of people most easily converted tovegeterianism/veganism are those that act guilty about it, like Gloria hasseen and those that are combative about it...because that's usually rootedin a some sort of guilt...you know, the people who harass you about iteven though you leave them be about their lifestyle choices...the onesthat are cool and act as if it's no big thing are the ones that will mostoften be meat eaters for life...just from my own experience, this seems tohold true.On Tue, 25 Nov 2003, outonalimb wrote:> > unfortunately that is not true where i live ;the most popular diet here is the Atkins plan. the high protein /low carb craze is going strong ....its nearly impossible to find vegan cheeses and chocolate at my local healthfood store. I have to special order mine .the low carb atkins diet plan foods are multiplying more and more on every aisle ! > t > > > It seems to me that there is some guilt involved in eating meat nowadays. Whenever I casually mention to people that I am a vegetarian, 99% of the time they will come back with "Well, I eat very little red meat, in fact I could probably live without it." Years ago I was invited to a Thanksgiving dinner (where there was virtually nothing I could eat!) and told that they knew I was a vegetarian, but figured I probably eat turkey on Thanksgiving. I once met a person who said he was a vegetarian, but added that he ate hamburgers once in awhile. These things make me laugh more than they make me mad. I don't think they are deliberately lying, except maybe to themselves. Many people have no idea that a vegetarian eats NO meat, NO fish, NO chicken, NO turkey... NONE!!!! EVER! Lol !> > Gloria> > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2003 In a message dated 11/25/03 7:31:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, outonalimb writes: ;the most popular diet here is the Atkins plan. I have friends who are on that diet. I told one of them that I had just made some great pumpkin soup for dinner and couldn't she "cheat"... just once??? She wrote me back and said she'd eat it only if I would eat a steak....just once. Needless to say that was the end of that discussion;-) Gloria Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2003 I will defend the high protein low carb diet, up to a point here. The fact is, it CAN be done on soy instead, I have done it. I believe 100% in a low carbohydrate diet, as in low in bread, pasta and white rice, the white foods. These are deadly to the pancreas and have been proven to cause diabetes over time and acne in the short run. Yes, acne. Now, what on earth is wrong with a soy based diet that includes copious amounts of fresh fruits and vegetables, small amounts of whole grains, healthy fats from olive oil, avocados, and nuts??? NOTHING! You have to trust your body here. I can't manage simple starches and I know what they do to my body. I eat very small amounts of whole grains instead. I do better with protein on the lower end of things and fats a tiny bit higher. No, you don't have to ever touch meat to be healthy. You also don't have to be a militant to win converts, but you do have to be especially patient with the ignorant, the ill-informed, the flesh eaters of this life. Happy Tofurky Day! Dragonfly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2003 I've never been militant in my life - in fact since we are the only vegans we know all of our friend and relatives are meat eaters . We entertain often and well . Our home is open to lots of friends who often joke that i must put "some wild feel good herb" in my food because being here is so relaxing and fun .I think we are good representatives for the cause because we both have a strong reputation for being very nice people ,good friends ,good neighbors and good business owners in out community .We don't push our views on anyone but are happy to answer questions about our choices if asked . We like you, eat processed foods very rarely and I don't use white flour period . That said I used to be a weight loss counselor for a ketogenic weight loss clinic .Sure you can lose weight on a low carb diet and you can do it and eat vegan .alot of my friends have been on and off them in the last few years and most have the yo yo diet syndrome The problem with the Atkins trend imho is that people still are missing the point of how to practice sound nutrition ! It wont be found in simple , refined carbs !Most people I know never buy real whole wheat flour for baking or use brown rice or eat 5 servings of veggies daily . The key to healthy Americans wont be found in the advocation of a diet teaches the average American that bread is bad .I get lots of requests for my whole wheat muffins and breads from friends who try them here and enjoy them. I write them as I make them and a few folks have told me they started using ener g in place of eggs in some of their recipes .Every little bit helps t ----- I will defend the high protein low carb diet, up to a point here. The fact is, it CAN be done on soy instead, I have done it. I believe 100% in a low carbohydrate diet, as in low in bread, pasta and white rice, the white foods. These are deadly to the pancreas and have been proven to cause diabetes over time and acne in the short run. Yes, acne.Now, what on earth is wrong with a soy based diet that includes copious amounts of fresh fruits and vegetables, small amounts of whole grains, healthy fats from olive oil, avocados, and nuts??? NOTHING!You have to trust your body here. I can't manage simple starches and I know what they do to my body. I eat very small amounts of whole grains instead. I do better with protein on the lower end of things and fats a tiny bit higher. No, you don't have to ever touch meat to be healthy. You also don't have to be a militant to win converts, but you do have to be especially patient with the ignorant, the ill-informed, the flesh eaters of this life. Happy Tofurky Day!Dragonfly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2003 I agree with you 100%, but not on egg replacer! I use silken whipped very smooth with a little water in it. If you read about what eggs do in baked goods, you will see that whipped silken does a similar thing. It is always on the shelf here at any rate and I like it better than Ener G replacer. DF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2003 At the same time, the mediterranean diet is based largely on carbohydrates and they don't have the same problems as Americans do...I think that the problem in American is overconsumption in all areas of the food pyramid...also, too much protein is bad for your kidneys... On Tue, 25 Nov 2003, TheLadyDragonfly wrote: > I will defend the high protein low carb diet, up to a point here. The fact > is, it CAN be done on soy instead, I have done it. > > I believe 100% in a low carbohydrate diet, as in low in bread, pasta and > white rice, the white foods. These are deadly to the pancreas and have > been proven to cause diabetes over time and acne in the short run. Yes, acne. > > Now, what on earth is wrong with a soy based diet that includes copious > amounts of fresh fruits and vegetables, small amounts of whole grains, > healthy fats from olive oil, avocados, and nuts??? > > NOTHING! > > You have to trust your body here. I can't manage simple starches and I > know what they do to my body. I eat very small amounts of whole grains > instead. I do better with protein on the lower end of things and fats a > tiny bit higher. > > No, you don't have to ever touch meat to be healthy. You also don't have > to be a militant to win converts, but you do have to be especially patient > with the ignorant, the ill-informed, the flesh eaters of this life. > > Happy Tofurky Day! > > Dragonfly ******************************************************************* Shawna Marie Schwalenberg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 25, 2003 Oh yes and too much protein can lead to osteoporosis. We don't need to add in gout do we? It can cause that too, it is flesh protein. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 26, 2003 thanks for the tip Lady Drogonfly by whipped silken do you mean silken soft tofu that you whip ? I do use tofu in some of my baking but use the ener -g along with unsweetened applesauce in place of oil for fat free baked goods with good results . I use silken tofu in the dumplings when I make veggies and dumplings and some assorted other breads .If you are using a different product plmk so I can have the local harvest house order me some to try !!!! If it wer'ent for all of the great recipes and tips posted on this list I wouldn't have made this transition with such ease AND confidence Thanks To All ! t I agree with you 100%, but not on egg replacer!I use silken whipped very smooth with a little water in it. If you read about what eggs do in baked goods, you will see that whipped silken does a similar thing. It is always on the shelf here at any rate and I like it better than Ener G replacer.DF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 26, 2003 what is silken? Tofu? How do you whip it? And why do you need to beat it? Yvonne > > TheLadyDragonfly [theladydragonfly] > Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:11 PM > > Re: labels...not a recipe > > > I agree with you 100%, but not on egg replacer! > > I use silken whipped very smooth with a little water in it. If you read > about what eggs do in baked goods, you will see that whipped > silken does a > similar thing. It is always on the shelf here at any rate and I like it > better than Ener G replacer. > > DF > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 27, 2003 my stepmom used to call herself a vegetarian, but said she ate meat whenever she had a craving for it. My dad told her she was a "vegemeatian" and she actually told people that! he was joking! -angelaMorningGlory113 wrote: but that some call themselves that inorder to be perceived as something they are not...It seems to me that there is some guilt involved in eating meat nowadays. Whenever I casually mention to people that I am a vegetarian, 99% of the time they will come back with "Well, I eat very little red meat, in fact I could probably live without it." Years ago I was invited to a Thanksgiving dinner (where there was virtually nothing I could eat!) and told that they knew I was a vegetarian, but figured I probably eat turkey on Thanksgiving. I once met a person who said he was a vegetarian, but added that he ate hamburgers once in awhile. These things make me laugh more than they make me mad. I don't think they are deliberately lying, except maybe to themselves. Many people have no idea that a vegetarian eats NO meat, NO fish, NO chicken, NO turkey... NONE!!!! EVER! Lol !Gloria Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 28, 2003 I'd love some of those recipes! I've been trying to fully convert yo WW but usually can only substitute half before the toddler and hubby notice a major difference. Thanks! Amissa ..I get lots of requests for my whole wheat muffins and breads from friends who try them here and enjoy them. Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. Get MSN Extra Storage now! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 29, 2003 lol, I'm from Scotland and it just shows that people in general can be quite ignorant. When I tell people here that I'm vegan, some ask things like " do you eat fish? " . It does make you laugh, that someone could ask that. Also, my dads not stupid, he likes to think of himself as smart lol..but he shocked me by offering me a muffin. I said " dad, I'm vegan " . He looked at me and asked " whats in muffins thats not vegan? " That really surprised me. It just shows people really don't think about what they eat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
