The Appearance of Sri Krsna

09-14-2000, 03:34 AM

Dear Oroboros,

"All these transcendental literatures you mentioned have been written
in one lifetime by one author. Krsna descended at the same time, 3,000 BC.
Therefore, Krsna's appearance in Mahabharata and Bhagavad-gita is not a
matter of historical date. Rather, His appearance in these particular bhakti
literatures - and His apparent absense in other Vedic scriptures is caused
by the philosophical aspects of the Absolute Truth and its corresponding
sources."
* * *

If you like I can explain a little of these scriptures I know from the
tradition itself.

Krsna in His original form as a cowherd boy with peacock feather in His hair
and a flute in His hands descends to this planet once in a day of Brahma, or
every 8,600,000,000 years (A.C. Bhakti-vedanta Svami Prabhupada,
Bhagavad-gita As It Is 1983, 4.1, purport p.217).

Apart from this appearance He descends another twenty times in different
forms in previous ages. His last (hidden) appearance was Caitanya Mahaprabhu
(1486-1534). The 22nd appearance will be Kalki. Kalki will terminate
Kali-yuga and commence a new Catur-yuga with the age of Satya (A.C.
Bhakti-vedanta Svami Prabhupada, Srimad Bhagavatam 1982).

The Three Vedas, the 108 Upanisads, the Vedanta-sutra, the smrtis, the
srutis and some 54 Puranas have all been recorded by one author, Srila Krsna
Dvapayana Vyasadeva, a 'literary incarnation of God'. This timeless
knowledge of India existed in an oral tradition since time immemorial until
5,000 years ago. At that time - the end of Dvapara yuga - Lord Krsna
descended to the earth and Vyasadeva recorded the Vedic knowledge to
preserve it for future generations.

He divided the Veda in three themes (Rg, Yajur and Sama). The Atharva Veda
is of a later date. The Vedas present the first step towards God
consciousness by means of karma-kanda (fruitive activities). The Rig Veda
for instance contains spells and magic formulas for promotion to higher
planetary systems and other motivated purposes.

Krsna Himself says that all Vedas are meant to know Him. Still, the Vedas
aren't particular bhakti literatures in which the personal aspects of the
Absolute Truth are explicitly described. His personal features have been
preserved in special scriptures which have been written for that purpose.

The transcendentalists are divided in four categories: karma-yogis (fruitive
workers who desire promotion to the heavenly planets); jnana-yogis
(speculative philosophers and empiric scientists who desire liberation from
material bondage); mystic yogis (who desire subtle material perfections to
lord it over others and the universe); bhakti-yogis (who are desireless and
cultivate unselfish love of God). All Vedic literatures have accordingly
been written in these successive stages of consciousness. The Vedas are the
first step.

After the compilation of the Vedas Vyasadeva wrote a commentary on these
scriptures which is the Vedanta-sutra. The Vedanta deals among other
with abstract philosophy - dvaita and advaita (dualism and non-dualism).
This conclusion is one philosophical stage higher than the knowledge of the
Vedas. Here Krsna is mentioned in His impersonal feature as the Supreme
Brahman.

Brahman is the first stage of God consciousness. Impersonal Brahman is the
effulgence of the transcendental limbs of the Supreme Absolute Truth, Sri
Krsna (brahmayjoti). The personal names of Krsna have rarely been mentioned,
or in a concealed way, since the Vedas, the Vedanta and the Upanisads aren't
exclusive bhakti literature. The Vedanta and some of the Upanisads are of
the category of jnana (abstract transcendental knowledge).

Nevertheless for the expert reader throughout the Vedas, the Upanisads and
Vedanta-sutra, it is stated that Brahman is the Creator of the universe,
omniscient, omnipotent, and the unequalled and unsurpassed Supreme Truth.
For example:

yato va imani bhutani jayante yena jatani jivanti
yat prayanty abisamvisanti, tad vijijnasasva tad brahma
(Taittiriya Upanisad, bhrgu 1 anu)

janmadyasya yatah (Vedanta-sutra 1.1.2)
[We are all from one source]

om tad visnoh paramam padam sada pasyanti
surayah diviva caksuratatam (Rg Veda)

sa aiksata (Aitereya Upanisad 1.1.1)

Beyond Brahman the second stage of God consciousness is called Paramatma
realization. Here one sees the Super Soul next to the individual soul of all
living entities. In ancient times the yogis meditated on the transcendental
form of Visnu in the heart of all living entities which is, indeed, another
aspect of the Absolute Truth. Visnu - as an expansion of Krsna - is in
charge of the maintenance of the material and spiritual universes. The
origin and function of Visnu can be read in Srimad Bhagavatam, First Canto.

The third and highest stage of God realization is Bhagavan. After the
impersonal Vedanta-sutra Vyasadeva wrote a commentary on Vedanta which is
Srimad Bhagavatam (Bhagavata Purana). Next to Srimad Bhagavatam he
wrote Mahabharata of which Bhagavad-gita is one part. This literature is
meant
to be read by followers of the personal aspect of the Absolute Truth, Sri
Krsna. Since these scriptures deal with the Personality of Godhead they
belong to the category of bhakti-vedanta.

In the Bhagavad-gita it is stated, "The Personality of Godhead, Lord Sri
Krsna, said: 'I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god,
Vivasvan, and Vivasvan instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and
Manu in turn instructed it to Iksvaku'." (Bh.g. 4.1).

"A rough estimate is that the Gita was spoken at least 120,400,000 years
ago; and in human society it has been extant for two million years. It was
respoken by the Lord again to Arjuna about five thousand years ago" (Bh.g.
4.1, purport p.217).

Krsna's personal nature can only been understood through bhakti. So the
Vedanta is situated philosophically and technically one platform below the
personal conception of the Absolute Truth. Krsna's own abode is the highest
planet in the spiritual realm, which lies far beyond the Visnu planets. Only
through that bhakti taught by Caitanya Mahaprabhu one can attain a personal
relationship with Krsna in the highest spiritual abode, Goloka Vrndavana.

You are right, if you have difficulty in finding Krsna's names outside the
bhakti literatures. The Vedas and the Vedanta aren't explicit bhakti
literature; the Upanisads either. The philosophy of these literatures is
meant to gradually progress from an impersonal conception of the Absolute
Truth through the processes of karma, jnana and yoga to the highest stage of
spiritual understanding. The Vedas and Upanisads might eventually bring one
to the concept of a personal God, only if one is lucky enough to associate
with a pure devotee, a Vaisnava who knows the import of all scriptures.

The Vedanta deals with abstract knowledge of the Absolute Truth which is
only one aspect of God. Krsna includes all three aspects: impersonal
Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan. The highest stage is Bhagavan. To conceive
of this conclusion one should read bhakti literatures, like Mahabharata,
Bhagavad-gita, and Puranas. These scriptures present the highest conclusions
on the Absolute Truth. However, one should read such literature from bhakti
authorities, or Vaisnavas only - and under guidance of a bonafide Vaisnava
guru. Divine knowledge can only been given through personal relationships
connected to the divinity. This is the secret of all learning. If one wants
to become a lawer, one should take classes from a lawer - not from a
biologist.

The International Society for Krsna Consciousness ('Hare Krishnas') are
situated in the unalloyed line coming directly from Krsna and descending
through Brahma-Narada-Vyasadeva-Suta-Krsna-Caitanya-Rupa-Prabhupada, up till
the present day. They are in an unbroken tradition of spiritual successors,
parampara. This guru line is unalloyed and pure, if you want knowledge of
Godhead Himself.

If you want to read Srimad Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita you should purchase
these books from Vaisnavas. These books are hard to find in book stores. In
fact, there is no bhakti literature available which is interpreted by
authorities from that particular tradition outside India except from A.C.
Bhakti-vedanta Svami Prabhupada. The Bhagavad-gita (a bhakti scripture) has
been translated and interpreted by scientists, atheists and maya-vadis about
360 times. These perverted copies have been spread in the Western world. To
get an authentic copy you should contact the nearest Hare Krishna Center and
purchase directly from them.

Jnanis, Saivites, mayavadis, brahmavadis, mystic yogis, karma-yogis,
monists, advaita-vedantins and scientists have no clue of the conclusions of
bhakti. These speculators should be avoided, if you want to progress in
spiritual knowledge on the highest platform. These yogis are contaminated
with personal motivations, like promotion to the heavenly planets,
liberation from material bondage, power over others and the universe,
becoming God themselves, etc. These are perversions covering the Ultimate
Truth.

"Our only purpose is to present this Bhagavad-gita As It Is in order to
guide the conditioned student to the same purpose for which Krsna descends
to this planet. This purpose is stated in Bhagavad-gita, and we have to
accept it as it is; otherwise there is no point in trying to understand the
Bhagavad-gita and its speaker, Lord Krsna" (Bh.g. Preface, xix)

All these literatures have been written in one lifetime by one author (if
you have
the original Vaisnava copies). Krsna descended at the same time, 5,000 years
ago. Therefore, Krsna's appearance in bhakti literatures, like Mahabharata
and Bhagavad-gita, is not a matter of historical date. Rather, His
appearance in such literatures and His absense in other literatures is
caused by a difference in the technical aspects of the Absolute Truth and
its corresponding literatures.

In fact, all of creation is controlled, and all Vedic literatures have been
composed by one spiritual 'family'. That family consists of the associates
of
Krsna and Visnu, not only on earth but also in other planetary systems, in
other universes, and in the spiritual world. Those who are devotees or
personal associates of Godhead Himself are known as Vaisnavas. In fact, all
demigods, like Siva, Parvati, Durga, Mayadevi, Ganesha, Laksmi, Kali,
Brahma, Indra, Varuna, Hanuman, etc. all are Vaisnavas or devotees of
Krsna. This becomes clear if one reads Srimad Bhagavatam, the conclusion on
the Vedanta-sutra.

There are four main Vaisnava sampradayas comming from Godhead Himself: the
Kumara-sampradaya, the Rudra-sampadaya, the Sri-sampradaya and the
Brahma-sampradaya. The current bhakti flood of Lord Caitanya and the 'Hare
Krishnas' is authentic and is coming through the Brahma-sampradaya in which
Krsna and His dynasty also appeared 5,000 years ago and 500 years ago
(Caitanya). Brahma himself got the Vedic knowledge directly from Krsna. That
event took place before creation. This can be read in Brahma-samhita. These
sources remain in the care of Vaisnavas. Therefore they are hard to find
among the bulk of Vedic scriptures that have flooded the West.

If one abandons all regular literatures and enters the authorized bhakti
scriptures submissively, with an open mind and a soft heart, that only will
be the beginning of one's spiritual life. A hard scientific approach of
these sources will not do because they're higher than - and incompatible to
empiric science.

I hope I could serve you,
Kind regards,

I.d.

----- Original Message -----
From: Oroboros Catilyne <catilyne@...>
To: <vediculture (AT) egroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: [world-vedic] Re: The End of Indra's Worship

>
> At 07:13 PM 9/8/00 +0200, Indira dasi wrote:
>
> >As you probably will know Sri Krsna descended on the earth at the end of
> >Dvapara-yuga, 5,000 years ago.
>
> Could you please be so kind as to cite your sources for this? In studying
> the Vedas, Aranyakas, Brahmanas, and Upanishadic materials I'm finding no
> mention of Krsna. I was under the impression that he really didn't make
an
> appearance in the corpus of materials until the Mahabarta/Bhagavad Gita.
>
> I'm trying to ascertain whether your assertions are a matter of faith or
> historical documentation. I must add that either is fine, but I'm just
> trying to get the histories straight.
>
> Thanx!
>
> -c-
>
>
> _____
> "i want to reach my hand into the dark and *feel* what reaches back"
> -recoil
>
>
>
>
> This is an information resource and discussion group for people interested
in the World's Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its historical,
archeological and scientific aspects. Also topics about India, Hinduism,
God, and other aspects of World Culture are welcome.
>
>