Menstruation and temples (Was:Why WOMEN inMenses not allowed in Temple or to worship?)

Dear Mr Sarbani,

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude. Couldn't we just as easily expand the
Prashna Marga list of bodily excretion to include breath - after all, breath is
also excreted from the body and the carbon dioxide we breath out, pollutes the
air and our enviroment. What
does this mean, only dead people can go to temples?

caroline
-----Original Message-----From: Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani (AT) srijagannath (DOT) org>To:
vedic-astrology <vedic-astrology>Date:
Thursday, December 18, 2003 4:45 PMSubject: [vedic-astrology] RE: Menstruation
and temples (Was:Why WOMEN inMenses not allowed in Temple or to worship?)Dear
Dhira et.al.,The obvious thought that comes to one's mind regarding this issue
is that ofpurity and cleanliness. Prashna Marga tells us while discussing
DevaPrashna, that when an idol is established in a temple, God in the form of
aDivine Presence exists as Chaitanya in the idol. The idol is the Bimba(mirror)
which contains the Divine Presence. It is the sukshma deha (subtlebody) while
the prasada is the sthula deha or gross body of the Almighty.Any form of
impurity or doshas reduces or wears the Divine Presence. Hencestrict vigilance
is observed to maintain the purity of the temple and thetemple premises.
Prashna Marga lists out the impurities and doshas whichincludes all human
excretory matter including sweat and perspiration, thoughmenstruation is not
specifically mentioned. One supposes that it is anatural extension to include
menstruation in the list of bodily excretions.The emphasis on maintaining the
cleanliness and purity of the temple is veryhigh, and PM states that even the
slightest impairment must be repaired,removed, cleansed and purified through
various means such as homas etc. Inthe deva prashna chart, pollution and
cleanliness is seen from the 6thhouse, while Gulika in the 4th house denotes
the entry of persons who areunclean or polluted.This is quite separate from the
issue of menstruation of the earth or theDivine Feminine, which is celebrate in
many parts of India. In Orissamenstruation of the earth is celebrated with
great fanfare during Rajo Parvawhich occurs 15 days prior to the Rath Yatra. It
is basically a fertilityfestival and during this time trees are not cut (in fact
not a leaf istouched), fruits are not picked and the land not tilled in the
numerousSacred Groves, oases of rare plants and medicinal herbs in
Orissa.Environmentalists in India have viewed this as a traditional
conservationmethod for a long time. In Bengal it is celebrated as Ambu Bachi,
wherewomen observe vratas whilst the earth bleeds. This is different from
thequestion as to why women do not enter the temple during menstruation,
whichis to do with keeping the Divine Presence intact and untouched.Best
regards,Sarbani-----Original Message-----From: venkatarama_sastry
[mailto:venkatarama_sastry (AT) yahoo (DOT) com]Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 9:56 PMTo:
vedic-astrologySubject: [vedic-astrology] Re: Why WOMEN in
Menses not allowed in Templeor to worship?Mr. Vishwanatham,Well said! A clean
and pure mind - that is the true temple.Venkatrama--- In
vedic-astrology, H S Viswanadham<vishwanatham@r...> wrote:>
Hare Rama Krishna>> Dear Phyllis,>> Can we really stop thinking about God, when
we are in the toilet,is the question that bothers me!>> i think what we are
talking about is externalities here, which aremore to do with religion than
spirituality. Are we talking about thepurity/cleanliness of bodyor mind or
soul?>> Let it be so for believers, is what i think about theexternalities.>>
Both the parents are required for continuity on this earth. Theyare different &
there is no comparison between them.>> regards> viswanadham>> Phyllis Chubb
<phyllis@p...> wrote:> Dear Dhira,>> After forcing myself to sleep on your
comments I will now respond,hopefully> in a polite fashion.>> In my opinion the
evaluation of women as being "unclean" whenmenstruating> has been one of the
most damaging and oppressive notions to hit us> throughout the age of Kali.
I've heard on more than one occasionthat the> menstrual blood is deemed unclean
because it could have sustainedlife, yet> does not.>> This reasoning would
certainly be valid if it applied equally toeach> ejaculation experienced by
men. Why are men not deemed to beunclean> creatures? They ejaculate a lot more
frequently than womenmenstrate.> Doesn't their sperm also have a connection to
life?>> Some day this foolishness will pass, once all of us stop blamingthe
gods> for our own distorted and perverted thinking. How can we refer tothe
gods> and their shakti in one breath while belittling the shakti ofmortal
man?>> May each of us strive to treat all living beings with respect.>>
Regards,>> Phyllis>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----> From: "Dhira Krsna
BCS"> To:> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 12:26 PM> Subject:
[vedic-astrology] Why WOMEN in Menses not allowed inTemple or to> worship?>>> >
Dear Rajan,> >> > Women having menses are 'unclean', that's why they are
notallowed to> > worship. The reason for this is that they take part in
theresults of> > Indra's being cursed for his sins.> >> > Yours,> > Dhira Krsna
dasa,> > Jyotishi> > http://www.radhadesh.com> >> >> > Archives:
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|| Om Gurave Namah ||
Dear Caroline
You refered
> Dear Mr Sarbani,
Dear Sarbaniji is a female
Warm Regards
-Sanjay Prabhakaran




--- In vedic-astrology, caroline francis
<cfrancis@t...> wrote:
>
> I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude. Couldn't we just as easily
expand the Prashna Marga list of bodily excretion to include breath -
after all, breath is also excreted from the body and the carbon
dioxide we breath out, pollutes the air and our enviroment. What
> does this mean, only dead people can go to temples?
>
> caroline

Adventavit asinus, pulcher et fortissimus

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... hamsassoham ..

We have to carefully distinguish between personal
meditation/cleanliness, and worship at temples. Meditation is
acceptable everywhere at all times, while the later is not. Let us
limit this discussion to temples...

A temple is a place of satwic worship. Thus, satwic actions are
encouraged, tamasic actions are prohibited, and rajasic actions find
a middle ground in temples.

The satwic planets are the Sun, Moon and Jupiter. It is thus easy to
understand why temples are closed during solar and lunar eclipses
(yet, this is an auspicious time for meditation and mantra japa!!!)

The tamasic planets are Mars and Saturn. We are asked to stay away
from temples when we are bleeding (Mars) or unclean (Saturn).
Bleeding does not imply uncleanliness. It is easy to understand why
women who are menstruating traditionally stay away from temples.

Lord Ayyappa sits at the mountain top at Shabarimalai. This temple
allows all devotees regardless of cast or creed. It allows men and
woman alike. However, women past puberty who have not yet reached
menopause are not allowed here. Ayyappa is signified by Saturn. We
all know the relationship between Mars and Saturn (Mars is exalted in
a Saturnine house. Saturn is debilitated in a Martian house.) Thus,
in this Saturnine temple, women who have not yet reached menopause
are asked to stay away.

A quick reply to Caroline's comments:

When we perform pujas, we are careful not to touch any excretions
(this includes the skin, nails, and hair). If we touch one of these
parts, we immediately atone for it by doing "achamanam".

In many traditions, immediately after pranayama (when the hand can
touch the outgoing breath), they touch the right ear (which has
listened to the vedas) in order to purify that hand.

In conclusion:

There are a myriad of significances behind every tradition. Just
because we don't understand it does not mean we should condemn it.

If I have hurt anyone's feelings, I apologize. I have tried to be
logical and objective.

ajit


--- In vedic-astrology, sprabhakaran@s... wrote:
> || Om Gurave Namah ||
> Dear Caroline
> You refered
> > Dear Mr Sarbani,
> Dear Sarbaniji is a female
> Warm Regards
> -Sanjay Prabhakaran
>
>
>
>
> --- In vedic-astrology, caroline francis
> <cfrancis@t...> wrote:
> >
> > I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude. Couldn't we just as easily
> expand the Prashna Marga list of bodily excretion to include
breath -
> after all, breath is also excreted from the body and the carbon
> dioxide we breath out, pollutes the air and our enviroment. What
> > does this mean, only dead people can go to temples?
> >
> > caroline