Menstruation and temples (Was:Why WOMEN inMenses not allowed in Temple or to worship?)

Dear Mr Sarbani,

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude. Couldn't we just as easily expand the

Prashna Marga list of bodily excretion to include breath - after all, breath is

also excreted from the body and the carbon dioxide we breath out, pollutes the

air and our enviroment. What

does this mean, only dead people can go to temples?

caroline

Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani (AT) (DOT) org>To:

vedic astrology <vedic astrology>Date:

Thursday, December 18, 2003 4:45 PM[vedic astrology] RE: Menstruation

and temples (Was:Why WOMEN inMenses not allowed in Temple or to worship?)Dear

Dhira et.al.,The obvious thought that comes to one's mind regarding this issue

is that ofpurity and cleanliness. Prashna Marga tells us while discussing

DevaPrashna, that when an idol is established in a temple, God in the form of

aDivine Presence exists as Chaitanya in the idol. The idol is the Bimba(mirror)

which contains the Divine Presence. It is the sukshma deha (subtlebody) while

the prasada is the sthula deha or gross body of the Almighty.Any form of

impurity or doshas reduces or wears the Divine Presence. Hencestrict vigilance

is observed to maintain the purity of the temple and thetemple premises.

Prashna Marga lists out the impurities and doshas whichincludes all human

excretory matter including sweat and perspiration, thoughmenstruation is not

specifically mentioned. One supposes that it is anatural extension to include

menstruation in the list of bodily excretions.The emphasis on maintaining the

cleanliness and purity of the temple is veryhigh, and PM states that even the

slightest impairment must be repaired,removed, cleansed and purified through

various means such as homas etc. Inthe deva prashna chart, pollution and

cleanliness is seen from the 6thhouse, while Gulika in the 4th house denotes

the entry of persons who areunclean or polluted.This is quite separate from the

issue of menstruation of the earth or theDivine Feminine, which is celebrate in

many parts of India. In Orissamenstruation of the earth is celebrated with

great fanfare during Rajo Parvawhich occurs 15 days prior to the Rath Yatra. It

is basically a fertilityfestival and during this time trees are not cut (in fact

not a leaf istouched), fruits are not picked and the land not tilled in the

numerousSacred Groves, oases of rare plants and medicinal herbs in

Orissa.Environmentalists in India have viewed this as a traditional

conservationmethod for a long time. In Bengal it is celebrated as Ambu Bachi,

wherewomen observe vratas whilst the earth bleeds. This is different from

thequestion as to why women do not enter the temple during menstruation,

whichis to do with keeping the Divine Presence intact and untouched.Best

regards,Sarbanivenkatarama_sastry

[venkatarama_sastry ]Monday, December 15, 2003 9:56 PMTo:

vedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Re: Why WOMEN in

Menses not allowed in Templeor to worship?Mr. Vishwanatham,Well said! A clean

and pure mind - that is the true temple.Venkatrama--- In

vedic astrology, H S Viswanadham<vishwanatham@r...> wrote:>

Hare Rama Krishna>> Dear Phyllis,>> Can we really stop thinking about God, when

we are in the toilet,is the question that bothers me!>> i think what we are

talking about is externalities here, which aremore to do with religion than

spirituality. Are we talking about thepurity/cleanliness of bodyor mind or

soul?>> Let it be so for believers, is what i think about theexternalities.>>

Both the parents are required for continuity on this earth. Theyare different &

there is no comparison between them.>> regards> viswanadham>> Phyllis Chubb

<phyllis@p...> wrote:> Dear Dhira,>> After forcing myself to sleep on your

comments I will now respond,hopefully> in a polite fashion.>> In my opinion the

evaluation of women as being "unclean" whenmenstruating> has been one of the

most damaging and oppressive notions to hit us> throughout the age of Kali.

I've heard on more than one occasionthat the> menstrual blood is deemed unclean

because it could have sustainedlife, yet> does not.>> This reasoning would

certainly be valid if it applied equally toeach> ejaculation experienced by

men. Why are men not deemed to beunclean> creatures? They ejaculate a lot more

frequently than womenmenstrate.> Doesn't their sperm also have a connection to

life?>> Some day this foolishness will pass, once all of us stop blamingthe

gods> for our own distorted and perverted thinking. How can we refer tothe

gods> and their shakti in one breath while belittling the shakti ofmortal

man?>> May each of us strive to treat all living beings with respect.>>

Regards,>> Phyllis>>>>>>>> -> "Dhira Krsna

BCS"> To:> Saturday, December 13, 2003 12:26 PM> Subject:

[vedic astrology] Why WOMEN in Menses not allowed inTemple or to> worship?>>> >

Dear Rajan,> >> > Women having menses are 'unclean', that's why they are

notallowed to> > worship. The reason for this is that they take part in

theresults of> > Indra's being cursed for his sins.> >> > Yours,> > Dhira Krsna

dasa,> > Jyotishi> > http://www.radhadesh.com> >> >> > Archives:

vedic astrology> >> > Group info:

vedic astrology/info.html> >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE:

Blank mail to vedic astrology-> >> > ....... May

Jupiter's light shine on us .......> >> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

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|| Om Gurave Namah ||

Dear Caroline

You refered

> Dear Mr Sarbani,

Dear Sarbaniji is a female

Warm Regards

-Sanjay Prabhakaran

vedic astrology, caroline francis

<cfrancis@t...> wrote:

>

> I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude. Couldn't we just as easily

expand the Prashna Marga list of bodily excretion to include breath -

after all, breath is also excreted from the body and the carbon

dioxide we breath out, pollutes the air and our enviroment. What

> does this mean, only dead people can go to temples?

>

> caroline

Adventavit asinus, pulcher et fortissimus

New Photos - easier uploading and sharing

... hamsassoham ..

We have to carefully distinguish between personal

meditation/cleanliness, and worship at temples. Meditation is

acceptable everywhere at all times, while the later is not. Let us

limit this discussion to temples...

A temple is a place of satwic worship. Thus, satwic actions are

encouraged, tamasic actions are prohibited, and rajasic actions find

a middle ground in temples.

The satwic planets are the Sun, Moon and Jupiter. It is thus easy to

understand why temples are closed during solar and lunar eclipses

(yet, this is an auspicious time for meditation and mantra japa!!!)

The tamasic planets are Mars and Saturn. We are asked to stay away

from temples when we are bleeding (Mars) or unclean (Saturn).

Bleeding does not imply uncleanliness. It is easy to understand why

women who are menstruating traditionally stay away from temples.

Lord Ayyappa sits at the mountain top at Shabarimalai. This temple

allows all devotees regardless of cast or creed. It allows men and

woman alike. However, women past puberty who have not yet reached

menopause are not allowed here. Ayyappa is signified by Saturn. We

all know the relationship between Mars and Saturn (Mars is exalted in

a Saturnine house. Saturn is debilitated in a Martian house.) Thus,

in this Saturnine temple, women who have not yet reached menopause

are asked to stay away.

A quick reply to Caroline's comments:

When we perform pujas, we are careful not to touch any excretions

(this includes the skin, nails, and hair). If we touch one of these

parts, we immediately atone for it by doing "achamanam".

In many traditions, immediately after pranayama (when the hand can

touch the outgoing breath), they touch the right ear (which has

listened to the vedas) in order to purify that hand.

In conclusion:

There are a myriad of significances behind every tradition. Just

because we don't understand it does not mean we should condemn it.

If I have hurt anyone's feelings, I apologize. I have tried to be

logical and objective.

ajit

vedic astrology, sprabhakaran@s... wrote:

> || Om Gurave Namah ||

> Dear Caroline

> You refered

> > Dear Mr Sarbani,

> Dear Sarbaniji is a female

> Warm Regards

> -Sanjay Prabhakaran

>

>

>

>

> vedic astrology, caroline francis

> <cfrancis@t...> wrote:

> >

> > I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude. Couldn't we just as easily

> expand the Prashna Marga list of bodily excretion to include

breath -

> after all, breath is also excreted from the body and the carbon

> dioxide we breath out, pollutes the air and our enviroment. What

> > does this mean, only dead people can go to temples?

> >

> > caroline