Nora/Ellen


This really sounds more like pointed & personal questions directed
specifically to Ellen. You two have a lot to discuss. I am going to
respectfully ask that you continue this dialogue with each other off-
line please.


~SE101



--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Ellen McGowen"
<ellen.mcgowen@w...> wrote:
>
>
> Nora,
>
> I am happy to see that you do not fight on the command of male
> gurus. Perhaps in India the sky gods were never secure enough
> to create an Athena, with helmet and spear, to fight for
> patriarchy.
>
> I always listen to women, when they speak from their hearts, and
> not from some script written for them by a man.
>
> "I did brought up this issue about the butterfly concept and you
told
> us about this "Goddess' who help you to remove the cocoon,
> the cocoon you said create by men etc.But you see Ellen I am not
> referring to the cocoon created by others. I am referring to the
> cocoon or the safety zone that you create by yourself. Are you
> strong enough to break them off and fly and be FREE. Why do you need
> others to do it for you? For in the natural environment, it's the
> butterfly who breaks their own cocoon."
>
> I knew what you were referring to, but not all cocoons are
> defense mechanisms. A person cocoon in poverty or hunger
> or treatable disease is not in a cocoon of her own making.
>
>
> "I have the opportunity to help up in a Woman's Aid Organisation.
> Basically it is an organisation for women by women. They offer
> assistance and counselling for women who have been abuse: Physical,
> emotional, sexual etc. I met this young lady. A very pretty and
> seems sucessful in a way. She have her own small publishing firm,
> she is assertive, she organises worshops and seminars for others.
> She impress me very much but its something about her that got my
> attention, her bitterness towards men in general. So one day on our
> field trip I thought : hey! Lets test her. I just curious to know
> how strong is this image of assertiveness that she displayed so
> fiercely. We chat and indirectly I tried to bring her back to that
> period of time when the actual abuse takes place. Immediately she
> crumble. Yes ! she practically cried her heart out and what ever
> strength she have displayed, to me just crumpled like a pack of
> cards."
>
> Why, she needed a place to heal from abuse, with Sisters who
> will understand and support her emotionally. In western feminism,
> that is what women's spaces are for. Doesn't Shaktism provide
> such places and Sisterhood for abused women? How could
> it serve Ma if it does not?
>
> "My opinion is that : this image of assertiveness, confidence and
> what's not she create for herself is the cocoon she build around
> herself. Thinking yes! I am okay. I have overcome is, but have she?
> It is just an Illusion. "
>
> Of course it is. After all, if there is no place for heal in saftey,
> no hospital for the heart safe from the heartless, see must still
> survive among the heartless, pretending to be one of them. Otherwise
> they will torment her more.
>
> "Another is a young lady, who after a year came back and stood in
> public and said : This is what happen to me.. and she is able to
> describe her experience and her last words was : I was angry then,
> but I am not now. I have forgiven those who have abuse me. "
>
> Had her abusers *asked* for her forgiveness? If they had, and we
knew
> they would abuse no more, I would agree with her decision to
forgive. But
> more they had not asked for forgiveness, and may still be out there
abusing
> others and creating more cocoons. In that case, which is the usual
case,
> they must be stopped. Of course each victim deserves space and
opportunity
> to heal in herself, but is not enough. If a woman's cultural
backgrown,
> Christian
> or Hindu, will only let her heal by forgiving her abusers, who are
still
> carrying on
> their abuses, her healing is more immediately mportant for her than
improved
> political consciousness. Let her forgive. But other Sisters who
*can* see
> the
> larger picture can work to end the abuses themselves, and this is
also
> service
> to Ma.
>
> "It is my believe that to go back is what you must do, and to laid
> that nightmare to rest is what you must do or all your life you will
> continue to be hunted by this nightmare. I am not sure my sentence
> here make sense. Are you daring enough Ellen to go back and face
> your so called "Enemy"? Its like watching a horror movie but
> this time its you as the victim. If you are able to sit there and
> watch the whole movie, seeing yourself being slaughtered and emerged
> not stirred at all, then you are a real hero to me."
>
> It makes perfect sense to me, but there are many ways to go about
it.
> Shamanic journeying is one, and my path uses those techniques. I
believe
> all traditions are ultimately descended from what I call "Ma
Shamanism"
> that we brought with us out of Africa some 50,000 to 100,000 years
ago.
> So a great many concepts and technques found in one tradition can
> reappear with variations on the other side of the world, because
they
> had a common origin.
>
> "Did you have the opportuinity to read the book entittled
Encountering Kali:
> In the
> margins, at the center and in the west. In PArt 2: Chapter 9 : Why
> the Tantrika is a Hero : Kali in the Psychoanalytic Traditions. "
>
> I know the book, but I have not read it yet. For a variety of
reasons I
> do not want to go into here, transsexual women and the
psychoanalytic
> traditions are not on speaking terms. A large amount, maybe even
most,
> of pychoanalytic traditions were stolen from eastern spirituality
and
> repackaged
> as western "science" without credit to the real inventors.
Psychiatry and
> even
> more so psychoanalysis pathologizes diversity and blames the victim
as
> a matter of course.
>
> "Sometimes I have this impression that the feminist especially the
> militant ones uses Kali as a weapon against Man/Men in general thus
> miss the whole spiritual aspect of Kali. They saw Kali standing on
> Shiva, it excites them. Yes! That is what we should do. We should do
> the same.. they say. "
>
> I think that famous murthy has been spin doctored by appologists
for the
> conquering sky gods.
> I note that Kali is black, like the chthonic people of India, but
the so
> called "demon's heads"
> are white, like the Bronze Age invaders. Shiva's position, which
looks like
> defeat, is frequently
> respun as his victory. Yeah, right. There is even a growing
tendency to
> "blue" Kali, as if She were
> one of the conquerers' sky gods rather than a chthonic Earth
Mother.
> Patriarchy is still trying to
> contain, defuse and appropriate Her.
>
> Just to start off, I like to ask a simple question to Ellen:
>
> What do you mean when you say : "I am a goddess" or "thou art
> Goddess".
>
> You know, I am certain, that the goal of ritual is not cognitive,
> theoretical understanding
> but to reach much deeper, nonverbal, portions of the self. Hence
the meaning
> of such a mantra, for it is a kind of mantra, cannot be adequately
conveyed
> in words. The rituals are the context in which the deeper meanings
can be
> conveyed. But the little which can be conveyed in words is that it
> *empowers*
> women with a sense of their own divinity. sacredness, and potential.
> Cognitive
> thealogies can be spun about immanent deity and panentheism, but
the root
> intention
> is to instill deep awareness in each woman that she has divine
power. This
> is radical
> and transgressive in a culture which teaches women to defer to men,
and
> which has
> only male images of divinity.
>
> "I too have undergo this new age goddess thingy initiation
> ceremony. And I been fed with a lot of information. My so
> call "Goddess" who initiate me is from Australia. So I would love
> know more about your version of the concept of Goddess. You mention
> Alexandra Kafta. Yes! I have heard and read about her, and Have form
> my own opinion about some of her teachings. But we are not here to
> criticise other people's teaching."
>
> I mentioned Chandra Alexandre, who is praticing and teaching
> a feminist and ecofeminist version of Shakta in San Francisco.
> She has remove the "blame the victim" and hierarchical tendencies
> and restored Sacred Nature by adding elements of Wicca. Of course
> Shakta tradiionalist will scorn this because they do not that
feminist
> spirituality has no desire to preserve patriarchal traditions. We
will take
> whatever can be used to empower and liberate women, in our hearts,
minds
> and societies and discard the rest as disempower drow. Our
transgressiveness
> has not yet been contained and defused.
>
> "Somebody question this concept of "Heal Thyself". Yes! That
> is what I am getting it. For if you really consider yourself as the
> Goddess, you have the ability to heal yourself, and only when you
> are able to heal yourself, you can heal others."
>
> I am not separate from others who have experienced patriarchal
> abuses. I cannot heal completely unless all the others do too. So
> Kuan Yin and Tara have taught through example.
>
> "HAve you ever tried to clean your wounds Ellen. Try it sometimes,
if
> you do have the opportunity. Do not let the nurse do it for you.
> Look at it. Or if You can magine or visualise having this dirty
> wound on your leg. To make it more interesting, you see this little
> wormy : maggots emerging from your dirty wounds. Would you have the
> courage to clean it yourself or would you immediately close your
> eyes and not wanting to see it? "
>
> I clean my wounds by fighting the system that made that made them,
> and I fight that system in the only way it can be fought. Kali did
not
> slash the demon of violence, which only breeds more violence. She
> drank his blood, took away his powers of regeneration and
reproduction.
>
> That too is a transformative magic, changing hate into something
far more
> letal to patriarchy: empowering women.
>
> "Otherwise you can go on "I am the Goddess" million times, you
> will never be one"
>
> I am one. I was born one and I will die one. And all tortures the
demons
> threw at me for half a century never made me turn away from that
knowledge.
> That is why I lived when most of the others died.
>
> "I am being told a joke by my Australian "Goddess"
> friend. When they did the goddess worshop in America, the American
> ladies insist that they should be given a Certificate which says :
> Now you are a Goddess! hahhaaaaaa."
>
> They also need to buy my prayer beads, over at the vendors' area
>
> "This is all I have to say for a time being."
>
> Blessings, sister, and Jai Ma! to your women's aid organization
work.
>
> Ellen
>
>
> .