Prayaschita during samudrayana

Dear members,

One of my close friends was leaving for US and expressed a doubt what sort of

prayaschita should be performed after returning back.. Well, this doubt seems

to a valid point to be noted down and it requires due attention now a days as

most of the upasakas are moving abroad for their livelihood.

Strictly speaking, the parashara and baudhyana grihya sutras have prescribed

ban related to samudrayana. But let us try to analyse it with little logic and

common sense.

In olden days when there was no proper means of transport, ships and boats

were used for traveling to another country which would take days to travel. So,

an orthodox Brahmin for fear of skipping his Nitya Sandhyavandana, Agnihotra,

Devatarchana, Vaisvadeva would not travel by ship or boat. And hence,

depending upon the circumstances of those days, these rules were framed.

Nevertheless, there is association with mlecchaas which is a sin. In order to

get rid of this sin of association with mlecchas, Baudhayana prescribed “punah

samskaras”. This does not mean “punar upanayana” ceremony. This includes

charity of cow (godana), sahasrara gayatri japa for forty days, bhagavat gita

and Vishnu sahasranama parayana.

These prayaschita kanda is for the Brahmins who have given up their nitya

karmas in abroad.

However, in abroad, one can perform one’s nityakarma without the Desa Kala

Samkirtana (bharata varshe ……….) while doing the samkalpam. One need not utter

the samkalpa " bharata varshe bharata khande ........nithi/vara/nakshtatra etc.

Just utter one’s name, gotra, and say that “mama upattha samastha durita kshaya

dwara sri parameshwaram uddisya sri parameswara prityartham prathah /

madhyanika/sayam sandhyaam / siva panchayatanam / sripadukaanushtanam karishye”.

Daily recital of Bhagavat Gita and Vishnu Sahasranama incurs no sin and one

need not perform the prayaschita kanda if one recites these two. This was

approved by Shri Satchidananda Nrisimha Bharati Swami of Sringeri to Krishnaraja

Wodeyar, king of mysore, while his travel to England.

With regards,

Sriram

Explore your hobbies and interests. Click here to begin.

Dear members,

There is a small typing error.

In the last paragraph, i have mentioned that no need to perform the

prayaschita karma. This is not true.

One need to perform prayaschita kanda which is mandatory after returning from

abroad. But one need to do the parayana of gita and VS daily. This was the

words of Nrsimha Bharati swamigal. So, donot be mislead by my earlier mail.

With regds,

sriram

venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote:

Dear members,

One of my close friends was leaving for US and expressed a doubt what sort of

prayaschita should be performed after returning back.. Well, this doubt seems to

a valid point to be noted down and it requires due attention now a days as most

of the upasakas are moving abroad for their livelihood.

Strictly speaking, the parashara and baudhyana grihya sutras have prescribed ban

related to samudrayana. But let us try to analyse it with little logic and

common sense.

In olden days when there was no proper means of transport, ships and boats were

used for traveling to another country which would take days to travel. So, an

orthodox Brahmin for fear of skipping his Nitya Sandhyavandana, Agnihotra,

Devatarchana, Vaisvadeva would not travel by ship or boat. And hence, depending

upon the circumstances of those days, these rules were framed.

Nevertheless, there is association with mlecchaas which is a sin. In order to

get rid of this sin of association with mlecchas, Baudhayana prescribed “punah

samskaras”. This does not mean “punar upanayana” ceremony. This includes charity

of cow (godana), sahasrara gayatri japa for forty days, bhagavat gita and Vishnu

sahasranama parayana.

These prayaschita kanda is for the Brahmins who have given up their nitya karmas

in abroad.

However, in abroad, one can perform one’s nityakarma without the Desa Kala

Samkirtana (bharata varshe ……….) while doing the samkalpam. One need not utter

the samkalpa " bharata varshe bharata khande ........nithi/vara/nakshtatra etc.

Just utter one’s name, gotra, and say that “mama upattha samastha durita kshaya

dwara sri parameshwaram uddisya sri parameswara prityartham prathah /

madhyanika/sayam sandhyaam / siva panchayatanam / sripadukaanushtanam karishye”.

Daily recital of Bhagavat Gita and Vishnu Sahasranama incurs no sin and one need

not perform the prayaschita kanda if one recites these two. This was approved by

Shri Satchidananda Nrisimha Bharati Swami of Sringeri to Krishnaraja Wodeyar,

king of mysore, while his travel to England.

With regards,

Sriram

Explore your hobbies and interests. Click here to begin.

Dear brothers and sisters,

This below mail from Shriman Shriram could not have come in at an

appropriate time. I am presently in the US on business and it was

nagging me about the prayaschittas for samudrayana since this is my

first trip abroad. But mleccha samparka, samudrayana, and others

apart, life is not easy here. This is applicable for people that

follow acharanushtanas to a very small extent. To begin with (pardon

me for being blatant, but I cannot help but quote this), wherever you

go here, you do not have the facility to clean yourself the Indian

way. I am sure nobody will disagree when I say that you are not clean

unless you clean the Indian way. Following this, you cannot wash your

feet since the bathrooms have no place for the water to drain other

than the sinks or the shower tubs. This is absolutely difficult and

worse when you are on the plane and you have space of about a square

feet to stand around. I do not overexagerrate when I say how much

ever vegetarianism is on the rise in the west, it is still difficult

to get veg food. Even if you get them, I am sure they are cooked in

the same vessels as nonveg food is cooked. So you still end up having

probably a wee bit of meat or anything into you. Almost everything

has a bit of egg and/or gelatin in them which are animal derivatives.

But one thing that I completely fail to understand is when things in

this part of the world are so difficult for people in the first two

ashramas, I really do not know why Sanyasins with their rigorous

commitments to their ashrama dharma want to come over here.

I conclude saying that even if you want to follow dharma to even a

small extent, the place for you is India, how much ever adharma might

prevail there.

Apavitro pavitro vaa Sarvavastan gatopi vaa

Yah smaret Pundarikaksham sa bahya antah shuchih

, venkata sriram

<sriram_sapthasathi wrote:

>

> Dear members,

>

> There is a small typing error.

>

> In the last paragraph, i have mentioned that no need to perform

the prayaschita karma. This is not true.

>

> One need to perform prayaschita kanda which is mandatory after

returning from abroad. But one need to do the parayana of gita and VS

daily. This was the words of Nrsimha Bharati swamigal. So, donot be

mislead by my earlier mail.

>

> With regds,

> sriram

>

> venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote:

> Dear members,

>

> One of my close friends was leaving for US and expressed a doubt

what sort of prayaschita should be performed after returning back..

Well, this doubt seems to a valid point to be noted down and it

requires due attention now a days as most of the upasakas are moving

abroad for their livelihood.

>

> Strictly speaking, the parashara and baudhyana grihya sutras have

prescribed ban related to samudrayana. But let us try to analyse it

with little logic and common sense.

>

> In olden days when there was no proper means of transport, ships

and boats were used for traveling to another country which would take

days to travel. So, an orthodox Brahmin for fear of skipping his

Nitya Sandhyavandana, Agnihotra, Devatarchana, Vaisvadeva would not

travel by ship or boat. And hence, depending upon the circumstances

of those days, these rules were framed.

>

> Nevertheless, there is association with mlecchaas which is a sin.

In order to get rid of this sin of association with mlecchas,

Baudhayana prescribed " punah samskaras " . This does not mean " punar

upanayana " ceremony. This includes charity of cow (godana), sahasrara

gayatri japa for forty days, bhagavat gita and Vishnu sahasranama

parayana.

>

> These prayaschita kanda is for the Brahmins who have given up their

nitya karmas in abroad.

>

> However, in abroad, one can perform one's nityakarma without the

Desa Kala Samkirtana (bharata varshe ……….) while doing the samkalpam.

One need not utter the samkalpa " bharata varshe bharata

khande ........nithi/vara/nakshtatra etc. Just utter one's name,

gotra, and say that " mama upattha samastha durita kshaya dwara sri

parameshwaram uddisya sri parameswara prityartham prathah /

madhyanika/sayam sandhyaam / siva panchayatanam / sripadukaanushtanam

karishye " .

>

> Daily recital of Bhagavat Gita and Vishnu Sahasranama incurs no sin

and one need not perform the prayaschita kanda if one recites these

two. This was approved by Shri Satchidananda Nrisimha Bharati Swami

of Sringeri to Krishnaraja Wodeyar, king of mysore, while his travel

to England.

>

> With regards,

> Sriram

>

>

>

> Explore your hobbies and interests. Click here to begin.

>

>

Since this comes under AchAra I thought of making a few commments.

, " karthikvathula " <karthikvathula

wrote:

> But mleccha samparka, samudrayana, and others

> apart, life is not easy here.

I find that statement offensive. It is not like you will become a

bhraShTa or that the devata-s will run away from you if you shake

hands with foreigners. I fail to understand what is so objectionable

about mlechcha samparka. If that is one's attitude towards them then

one should avoid going outside India in the first place.

> I do not overexagerrate when I say how much

> ever vegetarianism is on the rise in the west, it is still

difficult

> to get veg food. Even if you get them, I am sure they are cooked in

> the same vessels as nonveg food is cooked. So you still end up

having

> probably a wee bit of meat or anything into you. Almost everything

> has a bit of egg and/or gelatin in them which are animal

derivatives.

It is possible to get bhojya food if one stays long enough. when one

gets used to finding things it will not be much of a problem. Just

ask any upAsaka-s who have been staying there for some time.

I really fail to understand this obsession with vegetarianism! You

talk as if devata-s wil be displeased with you if you eat meat.

See manu and other smriti-s.

> But one thing that I completely fail to understand is when things

in

> this part of the world are so difficult for people in the first two

> ashramas, I really do not know why Sanyasins with their rigorous

> commitments to their ashrama dharma want to come over here.

1) It is not that difficult after getting used to things.

2) It is wrong to think the devata-s will not be pleased with your

upAsaan or that somehow they desert you if you got to a foreign land.

Through out history great mantra shAstra teachers travelled to

different lands through sea and initiated many non Indians and

settled in foreign lands.

> I conclude saying that even if you want to follow dharma to even a

> small extent, the place for you is India, how much ever adharma

might

> prevail there.

Not true. Wherever one is, the devata-s will be pleased, rituals

will work etc if the right procedures are followed with dedication to

tradition. FYI some of the best upAsaka-s that I know, live in US.

Dear karthik,

But life is not that tough in US as i learnt from my friends.

My gurunatha's third son is a visiting professor of philosphy at University of

Pensylvannia. He is very traditional in his life style. No coke, no pizzas, no

burgers, no icecreams, no egg, no meat, NO ONIONS AND GARLIC.

But still he manages to visit US very often to the universities in chicago,

boston, new jersey.

With regards,

sriram

karthikvathula <karthikvathula wrote:

Dear brothers and sisters,

This below mail from Shriman Shriram could not have come in at an

appropriate time. I am presently in the US on business and it was

nagging me about the prayaschittas for samudrayana since this is my

first trip abroad. But mleccha samparka, samudrayana, and others

apart, life is not easy here. This is applicable for people that

follow acharanushtanas to a very small extent. To begin with (pardon

me for being blatant, but I cannot help but quote this), wherever you

go here, you do not have the facility to clean yourself the Indian

way. I am sure nobody will disagree when I say that you are not clean

unless you clean the Indian way. Following this, you cannot wash your

feet since the bathrooms have no place for the water to drain other

than the sinks or the shower tubs. This is absolutely difficult and

worse when you are on the plane and you have space of about a square

feet to stand around. I do not overexagerrate when I say how much

ever vegetarianism is on the rise in the west, it is still difficult

to get veg food. Even if you get them, I am sure they are cooked in

the same vessels as nonveg food is cooked. So you still end up having

probably a wee bit of meat or anything into you. Almost everything

has a bit of egg and/or gelatin in them which are animal derivatives.

But one thing that I completely fail to understand is when things in

this part of the world are so difficult for people in the first two

ashramas, I really do not know why Sanyasins with their rigorous

commitments to their ashrama dharma want to come over here.

I conclude saying that even if you want to follow dharma to even a

small extent, the place for you is India, how much ever adharma might

prevail there.

Apavitro pavitro vaa Sarvavastan gatopi vaa

Yah smaret Pundarikaksham sa bahya antah shuchih

, venkata sriram

<sriram_sapthasathi wrote:

>

> Dear members,

>

> There is a small typing error.

>

> In the last paragraph, i have mentioned that no need to perform

the prayaschita karma. This is not true.

>

> One need to perform prayaschita kanda which is mandatory after

returning from abroad. But one need to do the parayana of gita and VS

daily. This was the words of Nrsimha Bharati swamigal. So, donot be

mislead by my earlier mail.

>

> With regds,

> sriram

>

> venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote:

> Dear members,

>

> One of my close friends was leaving for US and expressed a doubt

what sort of prayaschita should be performed after returning back..

Well, this doubt seems to a valid point to be noted down and it

requires due attention now a days as most of the upasakas are moving

abroad for their livelihood.

>

> Strictly speaking, the parashara and baudhyana grihya sutras have

prescribed ban related to samudrayana. But let us try to analyse it

with little logic and common sense.

>

> In olden days when there was no proper means of transport, ships

and boats were used for traveling to another country which would take

days to travel. So, an orthodox Brahmin for fear of skipping his

Nitya Sandhyavandana, Agnihotra, Devatarchana, Vaisvadeva would not

travel by ship or boat. And hence, depending upon the circumstances

of those days, these rules were framed.

>

> Nevertheless, there is association with mlecchaas which is a sin.

In order to get rid of this sin of association with mlecchas,

Baudhayana prescribed " punah samskaras " . This does not mean " punar

upanayana " ceremony. This includes charity of cow (godana), sahasrara

gayatri japa for forty days, bhagavat gita and Vishnu sahasranama

parayana.

>

> These prayaschita kanda is for the Brahmins who have given up their

nitya karmas in abroad.

>

> However, in abroad, one can perform one's nityakarma without the

Desa Kala Samkirtana (bharata varshe ……….) while doing the samkalpam.

One need not utter the samkalpa " bharata varshe bharata

khande ........nithi/vara/nakshtatra etc. Just utter one's name,

gotra, and say that " mama upattha samastha durita kshaya dwara sri

parameshwaram uddisya sri parameswara prityartham prathah /

madhyanika/sayam sandhyaam / siva panchayatanam / sripadukaanushtanam

karishye " .

>

> Daily recital of Bhagavat Gita and Vishnu Sahasranama incurs no sin

and one need not perform the prayaschita kanda if one recites these

two. This was approved by Shri Satchidananda Nrisimha Bharati Swami

of Sringeri to Krishnaraja Wodeyar, king of mysore, while his travel

to England.

>

> With regards,

> Sriram

>

>

>

> Explore your hobbies and interests. Click here to begin.

>

>

Dear ramji,

I appreciate your scriptural knowledge and deep insight in srividya

for which i prostrate at your feet.

But as far achara dharma is concerned it is formulated and restricted

as per the desa and kaala of bharata khanda and jambu dwipa.

Now what exactly and till what extent is this jambu dwipa (its

boundaries) is a debatable issue. Certain parts of Afganisthan was in

Bharata khanda. It is also said but i am not sure that uzbekisthan,

and certain parts of Russia also fall into bharata khanda. So, the

concept of bharata khanda and jambu dwipa is a debatable issue.

Moreover, speaking of achara dharmas Kanchi Periyaavaal insisted on

certain issues. Now how many of us are following them. " ashta

varshaad bhavet kanya " which means a girl should be married off at

the age of 8 before she attains maturity. Certain aspects of varna

asrama dharma and untouchability he advocated which is a SIN nowadays

to speak of. How many brahmins nowadays are performing the upanayana

ceremony of their sons at the eight of 8. How many are performing

sandhya vanadana and gayatri japa.

Prayaschitas are prescribed if we omit these karma kandas. Are we

meticulously performing these?

Srinivas Rao

, venkata sriram

<sriram_sapthasathi wrote:

>

> Dear karthik,

>

> Namaste. You are absolutely right and i understand your problem.

>

> The ulterior motive of going abroad is earning money that means

among the 4 purusharthaas (dharma, artha, kama, moksha) one is giving

much importance to artha and kama.

Shree Gurubhyo Namah

Dear friend:

Do not despair during your visit to USA. Focus on the success of your mission

while you are here.

I do have the following comments, though.

1. Regarding sannyaasiis. There are sannyaasis and then there are sannyaasis.

In USA, you will find a mixed bag of Sannyaasi visitors. The first and most

predominant are those who are driven by a service motive, and do not want

anything for themselves. They are usually here to try and collect funds for

some project or other in India - a temple, a hospital, a school, upliftment of

orphans, upliftment of women and so on. And then, of course, you know as well

as I do that there are some who come here for the Mercedes cars, the silk

dhotiis and the closed / sealed envelopes handed to them on brand new silver

plates. You should choose carefully when you visit any of them in USA. You can

usually judge for yourself within a few minutes. In my experience, I have found

the service oriented type much more than the self-oriented type in USA.

2. Regarding diet. Here are some tips.

- If you must eat outside, then try to eat at restaurants that serve salad

buffets. You can have salads with spinach, tomatoes, and various other veggies.

You can put some italian or french dressing ( these are the only dressings

without eggs ). You can have some bread and butter on the side. This will get

you through the meal.

- If you are at home, you can cook up some rice, put some pure yoghurt

(with acidophilus bacteria) on it, and add some grapes and cut apples, some

salt, cut green chillies and some cilantro. This is a healthy, easy, quick,

wholesome and satisfying meal. I know some student friends that have survived on

this diet for 8 years or more at a stretch. All of this is available in any

grocery store.

- If you can go to some indian grocery stores, there are many pre-packed

veggie meals. You can find puliyodharai, mattar paneer, dals, alu mattar and

many types of north indian curries, naan, chappathi, parathas and so on. These

are heat and eat kind of meals. There will surely be some microwave at any

business you visit. You can eat these out of paper plates. Various pickles are

also available, which you can then eat with the curd rice.

- As you continue to live in USA, you will find your own techniques for

keeping your vegetarianism.

- Some advice. Dont be apologetic about your vegetarianism. Just call it a

personal preference. Dont talk to the locals about the religion and other stuff

or dont give the impression that vegetarianism is somehow superior to eating

meat. That approach will only get you a whole lot of grief that you can do

without. Some americans believe that non-veg diet is the way to go, and are very

aggressive about it.

3. Be aware of your childhood training. Our Indian culture drills it into us

that our culture is best. I do not disagree. But then you come outside the

country, and you see all the attrocities that are going on in the name of

culture, in the middle of all the good things. So, with time, you will find a

sense of acceptance and heightened awareness that cultures are basically good

everywhere, and that some branches of that same culture are misguided and we

should not personally accept the bad parts of those cultures.

4. Regarding your cleanliness. You can carry a small bottle of drinking water

with you. These are available everywhere... hotels, vending machines and so on.

For outside purposes, you can use it for drinking, and then throw it away once

you are done.

Finally, I repeat to you your own quote.

Apavitrah pavitro vaa Sarvavastangatopi vaa

Yah smaret Pundarikaksham sa bahyaantah shuchih.

Dont forget the above words, and dont forget you daily prayers / nitya karmas.

This will surely give you both antah and bahishshuchih.

Thanks.

Shree Maathre Namah.

Dear karthik,

Wonderful advice has been given by our member Shri Kumar. Any

problems over there you can contact several of our forum members.

They are ready to extend whatever help that is possible. We are with

you dear. Donot despair.

With love and regards

sriram

, " Kumar Ramachandran " <kramach

wrote:

>

> Shree Gurubhyo Namah

>

> Dear friend:

>

> Do not despair during your visit to USA. Focus on the success of

your mission while you are here.

>

> I do have the following comments, though.

>

> 1. Regarding sannyaasiis. There are sannyaasis and then there are

sannyaasis. In USA, you will find a mixed bag of Sannyaasi visitors.

The first and most predominant are those who are driven by a service

motive, and do not want anything for themselves. They are usually

here to try and collect funds for some project or other in India - a

temple, a hospital, a school, upliftment of orphans, upliftment of

women and so on. And then, of course, you know as well as I do that

there are some who come here for the Mercedes cars, the silk dhotiis

and the closed / sealed envelopes handed to them on brand new silver

plates. You should choose carefully when you visit any of them in

USA. You can usually judge for yourself within a few minutes. In my

experience, I have found the service oriented type much more than the

self-oriented type in USA.

>

> 2. Regarding diet. Here are some tips.

>

> - If you must eat outside, then try to eat at restaurants

that serve salad buffets. You can have salads with spinach,

tomatoes, and various other veggies. You can put some italian or

french dressing ( these are the only dressings without eggs ). You

can have some bread and butter on the side. This will get you

through the meal.

>

> - If you are at home, you can cook up some rice, put some pure

yoghurt (with acidophilus bacteria) on it, and add some grapes and

cut apples, some salt, cut green chillies and some cilantro. This is

a healthy, easy, quick, wholesome and satisfying meal. I know some

student friends that have survived on this diet for 8 years or more

at a stretch. All of this is available in any grocery store.

>

> - If you can go to some indian grocery stores, there are many

pre-packed veggie meals. You can find puliyodharai, mattar paneer,

dals, alu mattar and many types of north indian curries, naan,

chappathi, parathas and so on. These are heat and eat kind of

meals. There will surely be some microwave at any business you

visit. You can eat these out of paper plates. Various pickles are

also available, which you can then eat with the curd rice.

>

> - As you continue to live in USA, you will find your own

techniques for keeping your vegetarianism.

>

> - Some advice. Dont be apologetic about your vegetarianism.

Just call it a personal preference. Dont talk to the locals about the

religion and other stuff or dont give the impression that

vegetarianism is somehow superior to eating meat. That approach will

only get you a whole lot of grief that you can do without. Some

americans believe that non-veg diet is the way to go, and are very

aggressive about it.

>

> 3. Be aware of your childhood training. Our Indian culture drills

it into us that our culture is best. I do not disagree. But then

you come outside the country, and you see all the attrocities that

are going on in the name of culture, in the middle of all the good

things. So, with time, you will find a sense of acceptance and

heightened awareness that cultures are basically good everywhere, and

that some branches of that same culture are misguided and we should

not personally accept the bad parts of those cultures.

>

> 4. Regarding your cleanliness. You can carry a small bottle of

drinking water with you. These are available everywhere... hotels,

vending machines and so on. For outside purposes, you can use it for

drinking, and then throw it away once you are done.

>

>

> Finally, I repeat to you your own quote.

>

> Apavitrah pavitro vaa Sarvavastangatopi vaa

> Yah smaret Pundarikaksham sa bahyaantah shuchih.

>

> Dont forget the above words, and dont forget you daily prayers /

nitya karmas. This will surely give you both antah and

bahishshuchih.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Shree Maathre Namah.

>

>

Dear Sri Shriram and Kumar,

Thank you all very much for your excellent advice. Indeed, Sri Kumar's points

were really

helpful, in that I felt better at his recommendations on the foods. I have been

eating for

almost the complete duration of my trip on in Subways, staying on their veg

sandwiches.

Sri Satish,

Why is it that you always want to sound like a reformist or a secularist. This

is not just with

my present mail, but several other previous mails, which I have quietly

followed.

SA: You are probably right that at times some posts had such a tone but IMHO

there is nothing to be reformed or changed except for looking at teh validity

of few assumptions closely.

I don't

quite understand what is there for you to feel offensive about my comment on

mleccha

samparka. If you read carefully I said apart from samudrayana and mleccha

samparka.

SA: Can you reduce using the word mlechcha? There are non Indians in the list.

Dont you think it is inappropriate to use that word before them? Most people

know what you mean by that compound word. Is it not implied in your statement

that going around with foreigners is somehow polluting?

It is

not necessary that one needs to travel abroad to come across mleccha samparka.

We have

enough of them in India as well. I just meant to speak about the achara and food

part of it

in my mail. I didn't say that the devathas would be unpleased with me if I

partook meat. I

am most disturbed by the fact that a lot of food here has to do with beef, and

if you didn't

know what that means, it means the meat of a cow. And I consider the cow as my

mother

and I don't like to eat my mother. It is not that I am vegetarian only because

my dharma

advocates it. It would also have to do with jivakarunya, too. And above all, if

the

Dharmacharyas have advised and preached about something, I would want to follow

that

to whatever extent I can, and they don't seem to speak very highly about eating

animals. I

would also like to ask if meat eating is fine, then why limit to those derived

from a lamb,

goat, cow, chicken, turkey or a pig. Go ahead and eat the lions and tigers.

SA: Typical rant.

In all, I just want say that I very well want to avoid going outside India in

the first place. I

have had enough with this already. As Shriram says, most people want to go

abroad to

make money and I don't really have any ideas of that sort. I would rather stay

back in India

earning whatever the Divine Mother has provided me with.

And I don't really care if some " best " upasakas live outside of India. I care

about myself

and my upasana.

SA: Perhaps you forgot that I mentioned it in the context of the following

statement you made. The point of mentioning that is to show that achAra(atleast

to a reasonable extent) is possible even outside India. So your " conclusions "

are not entirely correct.

" I really do not know why Sanyasins with their rigorous

commitments to their ashrama dharma want to come over here.

I conclude saying that even if you want to follow dharma to even a

small extent, the place for you is India, how much ever adharma might

prevail there. "

Karthik

is it not that kUshmAnda homam is considered a sarva praayaschitham and will be

sufficient for samudryAnam?

regards

Vishwam

venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi

Thursday, June 5, 2008 12:39:53 AM

Re: Re: Prayaschita during samudrayana

Dear karthik,

Namaste. You are absolutely right and i understand your problem.

The ulterior motive of going abroad is earning money that means among the 4

purusharthaas (dharma, artha, kama, moksha) one is giving much importance to

artha and kama. And i equally understand why the todays CYBER-GURUS and the

so-called " UPASAKAS " are making beeline at counsellate offices for visas.

I think this mail has come to you at APPROPRIATE TIME. As soon as you come back

to India, do prayaschita. If you can afford perform GODAANA. Get the Gayatri

and Ganapati Homam performed at your house. Chant Bhagavatgita and Vishnu

Sahasranama.

But do a minimum of Gayatri Japa (at least 10). This is my sincere advice.

With regards,

sriram

karthikvathula <karthikvathula@ > wrote:

Dear brothers and sisters,

This below mail from Shriman Shriram could not have come in at an

appropriate time. I am presently in the US on business and it was

nagging me about the prayaschittas for samudrayana since this is my

first trip abroad. But mleccha samparka, samudrayana, and others

apart, life is not easy here. This is applicable for people that

follow acharanushtanas to a very small extent. To begin with (pardon

me for being blatant, but I cannot help but quote this), wherever you

go here, you do not have the facility to clean yourself the Indian

way. I am sure nobody will disagree when I say that you are not clean

unless you clean the Indian way. Following this, you cannot wash your

feet since the bathrooms have no place for the water to drain other

than the sinks or the shower tubs. This is absolutely difficult and

worse when you are on the plane and you have space of about a square

feet to stand around. I do not overexagerrate when I say how much

ever vegetarianism is on the rise in the west, it is still difficult

to get veg food. Even if you get them, I am sure they are cooked in

the same vessels as nonveg food is cooked. So you still end up having

probably a wee bit of meat or anything into you. Almost everything

has a bit of egg and/or gelatin in them which are animal derivatives.

But one thing that I completely fail to understand is when things in

this part of the world are so difficult for people in the first two

ashramas, I really do not know why Sanyasins with their rigorous

commitments to their ashrama dharma want to come over here.

I conclude saying that even if you want to follow dharma to even a

small extent, the place for you is India, how much ever adharma might

prevail there.

Apavitro pavitro vaa Sarvavastan gatopi vaa

Yah smaret Pundarikaksham sa bahya antah shuchih

@ .com, venkata sriram

<sriram_sapthasathi wrote:

>

> Dear members,

>

> There is a small typing error.

>

> In the last paragraph, i have mentioned that no need to perform

the prayaschita karma. This is not true.

>

> One need to perform prayaschita kanda which is mandatory after

returning from abroad. But one need to do the parayana of gita and VS

daily. This was the words of Nrsimha Bharati swamigal. So, donot be

mislead by my earlier mail.

>

> With regds,

> sriram

>

> venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote:

> Dear members,

>

> One of my close friends was leaving for US and expressed a doubt

what sort of prayaschita should be performed after returning back..

Well, this doubt seems to a valid point to be noted down and it

requires due attention now a days as most of the upasakas are moving

abroad for their livelihood.

>

> Strictly speaking, the parashara and baudhyana grihya sutras have

prescribed ban related to samudrayana. But let us try to analyse it

with little logic and common sense.

>

> In olden days when there was no proper means of transport, ships

and boats were used for traveling to another country which would take

days to travel. So, an orthodox Brahmin for fear of skipping his

Nitya Sandhyavandana, Agnihotra, Devatarchana, Vaisvadeva would not

travel by ship or boat. And hence, depending upon the circumstances

of those days, these rules were framed.

>

> Nevertheless, there is association with mlecchaas which is a sin.

In order to get rid of this sin of association with mlecchas,

Baudhayana prescribed " punah samskaras " . This does not mean " punar

upanayana " ceremony. This includes charity of cow (godana), sahasrara

gayatri japa for forty days, bhagavat gita and Vishnu sahasranama

parayana.

>

> These prayaschita kanda is for the Brahmins who have given up their

nitya karmas in abroad.

>

> However, in abroad, one can perform one's nityakarma without the

Desa Kala Samkirtana (bharata varshe ……….) while doing the samkalpam.

One need not utter the samkalpa " bharata varshe bharata

khande ........nithi/ vara/nakshtatra etc. Just utter one's name,

gotra, and say that " mama upattha samastha durita kshaya dwara sri

parameshwaram uddisya sri parameswara prityartham prathah /

madhyanika/sayam sandhyaam / siva panchayatanam / sripadukaanushtanam

karishye " .

>

> Daily recital of Bhagavat Gita and Vishnu Sahasranama incurs no sin

and one need not perform the prayaschita kanda if one recites these

two. This was approved by Shri Satchidananda Nrisimha Bharati Swami

of Sringeri to Krishnaraja Wodeyar, king of mysore, while his travel

to England.

>

> With regards,

> Sriram

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ---

> Explore your hobbies and interests. Click here to begin.

>

>

Dear srinivas,

Certain aspects of these acharas are very volatile and debatable which

involves controversial aspects. So better we stop this thread with this mail.

But before that i would like to comment on these issues:

Point 1: My mail on pryaschita for samudrayana is entirely a different issue.

The person who is not doing the nitya karma abroad can omit the prayaschita.

Now, " mleccha " means the person who performs cow slaughter and consumes the

beef. We Hindus, regard the cow as an aspect of Mother Gayatri and Kamadhenu.

So, when the same cow which we regard as Divine Mother, when is being

slaughtered before us, is it not a sin to be associated with these people.

Point 2: We regard Kanchi Mahaperiyavaal as Mother Kamakshi herself. And he

is our Parama Guru. His Holiness gave Golden Srichakra and Gayatri Yantra to my

gurunatha.

Point 3: The marriageable age limit of a girl child is a debatable issue. It

is said that when the girl, after attaining the maturity, is married then

prayaschita is performed. And when a husband marries such a girl (post-matured)

is not allowed to performed Paundarika Yajna. Prayaschita for rajasvala dosha

is performed. I donot know how far it is true and i have not studied the deep

intricacies of this dharma.

Brahmasri Vashishta Ganapati Muni had compiled a work called " Sadachara

Dipika " which is a compilation of entire dharma sastra. In this book, he

mentions that the " Marriageable Age Limit for a Girl in 16 " and he quotes ample

sastraic quotations in this support.

The words of Ganapati Muni is an authority in our family for he being our

great grandfather. Morever, our family, though rooted in tradition and

orthodoxy, does not believe in the dictum " OLD IS GOLD " . Ganapti Muni was a

staunch Gandhian and only wore khadi dress influenced by Mahatma. My Grandfather

participated in freedom struggle. Ganapati Muni was against UNTOUCHABILITY.

Ganapti Muni was invited by Kanchi Mahaperiyavaal to hold the position of

Asthana Srividyopasaka at Kamakoti Pita which he rejected. Because, Ganapati

Muni was a FIREBRAND. At Kharagpur, Mahaperiyavaal and Ganapati Muni met each

other and discussed certain issues of Veda Rennaisance and means of Freedom

Struggle. Infact, both of them were of the opinion that Sanskrit should be the

National Language. Things took a different turn with the intervention of Gandhi

and Hindi was thrust on us.

And moreover, i didnot find any great achievements of girls who were married

off at the age of 8. By the time they are 18, they are mother of half a dozen

children and by the time they are 35 or 40 they attain widowhood. Please donot

bring the cases of Gargi, Maitreyi and other Rishikas to support your statement.

With regards,

Sriram

srinivasrao197080 <srinivasrao197080 wrote:

Dear ramji,

I appreciate your scriptural knowledge and deep insight in srividya

for which i prostrate at your feet.

But as far achara dharma is concerned it is formulated and restricted

as per the desa and kaala of bharata khanda and jambu dwipa.

Now what exactly and till what extent is this jambu dwipa (its

boundaries) is a debatable issue. Certain parts of Afganisthan was in

Bharata khanda. It is also said but i am not sure that uzbekisthan,

and certain parts of Russia also fall into bharata khanda. So, the

concept of bharata khanda and jambu dwipa is a debatable issue.

Moreover, speaking of achara dharmas Kanchi Periyaavaal insisted on

certain issues. Now how many of us are following them. " ashta

varshaad bhavet kanya " which means a girl should be married off at

the age of 8 before she attains maturity. Certain aspects of varna

asrama dharma and untouchability he advocated which is a SIN nowadays

to speak of. How many brahmins nowadays are performing the upanayana

ceremony of their sons at the eight of 8. How many are performing

sandhya vanadana and gayatri japa.

Prayaschitas are prescribed if we omit these karma kandas. Are we

meticulously performing these?

Srinivas Rao

, venkata sriram

<sriram_sapthasathi wrote:

>

> Dear karthik,

>

> Namaste. You are absolutely right and i understand your problem.

>

> The ulterior motive of going abroad is earning money that means

among the 4 purusharthaas (dharma, artha, kama, moksha) one is giving

much importance to artha and kama.

Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under one roof. Click

here.

Shri Gurubhyo Namah:

Friends:

The word " adharma " in the Shri Karthik's email sparked a subject.

Please comment on :

1. " dharmaadharma vivarjitaa " . (LS).

2. " adharma eva dharmaH " . (Kaulopanishad - I think).

Thanks.

KR.

ShrI maatre namah.

Dear kumar,

Namaste.

Why do you bring the poor Mother Lalitha into this controversy ...ha

ha ha.

She is beyond the dualities of dharma and adharma. It is that state

of AWARENESS or CONSCIOUSNESS which is untouched by dharma and

adharma, Punya and Papa, Sukha and Dukha. That state is the state of

Aapthakaamah. She is not bound by either dharma or by adharma. She

has nothing to achieve by treading dharma marga and nothing to lose

by treading adharma marga. And hence, she is Dharma Adharma Vivarjita.

But she is SADACHARAPRAVARTHIKA AND VARNASHRAMAVIDHAYINI. We ordinary

mortals should reflect on these two names and ponder where do we

stand.

With regards,

Sriram

, " Kumar Ramachandran " <kramach

wrote:

>

> Shri Gurubhyo Namah:

>

> Friends:

>

> The word " adharma " in the Shri Karthik's email sparked a subject.

> Please comment on :

>

> 1. " dharmaadharma vivarjitaa " . (LS).

> 2. " adharma eva dharmaH " . (Kaulopanishad - I think).

>

> Thanks.

> KR.

>

> ShrI maatre namah.

>

>

>

>

>

Sri gurubhyo namaha.

Humble namaskarams to all.

Since this topic has been relpied to by various people already there

probably is no merit in me rehashing this again. But try as I might,

I am not able to not raise this here by my mail.

In the original query and in the replies that followed more than any

sastra pramana being elucidated,there seems to be more prejudice and

bias. I find the dichotomy (which is such an ever present under

current in the lives of most of us whether in India or abroad)

totally alien to the vision that is actually sought by the

performance of the ordained karmas.

What is the use of repeated japa of gayatri or panchadashi or

anything else if it does not produce the slightest bit of broad

mindedness? While most of us repeat 'aham brahmasmi' etc three times

during the sandhya vandhana, it seems to be just a mechanical

statement without the slightest belief in its profoundity and

universality.

The attitude and state of mental maturity that is evident from the

words ' mleccha samparka' etc make me remember the incident in

Varanasi when Shankaracharya was met by Shiva in the guise of a

chandala. No matter how much one intelectually preaches advaita and

philosophises about the oneness of being etc, ones true colours and

bias are made manifest through the way one reacts to situations.

How many of us adhere to the words of the dharma sastras in reality?

We use them and abuse them suit out selfish motives really and

nothing more (aggreed, I am generalising here and I mean no

disrespect to those really living their lives in tune with the

dharmic precepts - rather I am in constant awe of those beings). We

dont walk around wearing only a veshti and angavastram, we are well

used to being in shirts, shorts, trousers, coats, ties and what not

which certainly did not get a recommendation in the dharma

sastras.The dwijas do not necessarily refrain from

business,employment or any other trade/source of income and rely on

meagre earnings from conducting ceremonies and spreading the vedas.

We dont marry off our children when they are eight. God, we really

dont practice any of the dharmic injuncts to the degree where the

effects of the so called 'mleccha samparka' etc merit being felt or

noticed.

Dharma texts and vedic injunctions apart, it is a small and lowly

human being who is unable to open him/herself enough to accomodate

those who are not his ilk. More so when one leaves for a foreign

land. I feel it is the loss of the person who allows themselves to

be blinkered by dusty dogma and foolish notions so as to not be able

to see the same devi/siva/atma everywhere.Even the words that 'we

are forced to go abroad for employment/business' is a

classic 'victim' perception. Why go in the first place if one is

unable to feel and see the good elsewhere? Would one so strongly

bothered by adhering to dharma not be better off starving in

the 'punya bhumi' than go elsewhere to satisfy ones appetite and

greed for money and everything else?

Why is it that those claiming to follow the most subtle and great

paths always show themselves to be so small minded?

I live in Ireland and have been doing so for the past 11 years. I do

not find any trouble in being vegetarian (and finding good

vegetarian food apart from in Subway),in upholding my brahmin way of

life,in following my upasana or anything else for that matter.But

then again, I am not so caught up in a belief system that percieves

everyone apart from me and my kind as being in anyway inferior or

crude or pagan.Every person I meet reflects yet another facet of my

Tripurasundari and incites me to break down more of those mental

barriers that cage me and make me belive that I am just confined to

this 'en jaan odambu' (this body of flesh and bones).

My apologies if I have hurt the sentiments of any - never my

intention. And I take full responsibility for my views as until She

teaches me different this I really believe in.

, " karthikvathula "

<karthikvathula wrote:

>

> Dear brothers and sisters,

>

> This below mail from Shriman Shriram could not have come in at an

> appropriate time. I am presently in the US on business and it was

> nagging me about the prayaschittas for samudrayana since this is

my

> first trip abroad. But mleccha samparka, samudrayana, and others

> apart, life is not easy here. This is applicable for people that

> follow acharanushtanas to a very small extent. To begin with

(pardon

> me for being blatant, but I cannot help but quote this), wherever

you

> go here, you do not have the facility to clean yourself the Indian