Regarding esoteric details, Yvonne writes:

*** what I see here lots of times is esoteric details ***

Once you've assimilated the basics of any spiritual system (and most
certainly Shakta), "esoteric details" are what you need (and want)
in order to continue on through ever deeper, ever more expansive
levels of experience. That is not theory, that is practice.

*** some of them described with sanskrit terminology that I have a
hard time keeping straight. ***

As it happens, Sanskrit is the primary liturgical language of
Hinduism. In the Group, we offer many translations and abundant
explanations, but ultimately -- it is what it is. At a certain
point, if one is interested enough to meet the system on its own
terms (rather than as a mediated experience), a certain amount of
effort is needed to make this additional vocabulary your own.

*** Auntie Usha concentrates more on the basics ... ***

As noted, basics are essential as a foundation for any serious
practice. Once you have assimilated "the basics", however, you
should begin using them as foundations were intended to be used: as
platforms to build upon. Again, that is not theory, but the essence
of any living, evolving practice.

*** ... like how to meditate, how to harness your inner energy, what
are the best yoga positions, stuff like that. ***

None of these are necessarily "basic", you know. It's like
saying "how to paint" is basic. Well, yeah, I can hand a 5-year-old
a brush, some colors and some paper, and she'll paint. A tree, a
house, a sun. But "painting" also encompasses some of the most
intricate, radiant, skillful creations of the human mind. There are
(I think you'll agree) many degrees of separation between the art on
a kindergarten wall and the art on, say, a wall in the Louvre. But
to get from one to the other, the artist's training *needs* to
become a bit "esoteric" (apart from its obvious aesthetic qualities,
the sheer technical wizardry underlying "Mona Lisa," for example, is
no mean feat) -- in practice as well as theory. It's hard work
getting there, and requires much talent and no little grace; but
perhaps it is worth it, after all -- especially compared to the
alternative of remaining infinitely in kindergarten.

*** And she usually has a goal in mind ... ***

As does any sadhak, be it guru or shishya.

*** Take mantras for example. I have seen people on this list
discuss at some great length how to pronounce some specific mantra.
Auntie Usha says the choice of mantra is yours and yours alone. ***

In Shakta (or most any kind of Hindu) practice, the guru
traditionally assigns the mantra or mantra, depending on the needs
of the shishya, though many might choose a favorite -- Gayatri
mantra, Saraswati mantra, etc. -- in the absence of a guru.

Your auntie is, however (as I understand it), propounding a system
of her own invention -- it is not Shakta, nor does she appear to
present it as such. But since you clearly consider her to be your
primary spiritual teacher or guru; well, yes, you should follow her
guidance. But understand that this advice, while right for you, is
simply one opinion, no doubt based on her personal experiences and
beliefs. Likewise, Shakta and other systems have their own sets
of "advice," based on the oral and written traditions and
experiences of the various lineages over the millennia. They tend to
work pretty well, too. ;-) In practice and in theory. That's why
people talk about them.

*** After all, the Goddess lives within your soul and she is the one
you are trying to communicate with. She knows you and knows what you
want. You don't need to communicate anything TO her. Goal is for you
to hear what she's telling you, not the other way around. So pick
whatever mantra you want. ***

Mantra is not a means of "communication" with the deity in the sense
you describe. Mantra is the deity herself (himself, itself, etc) in
her (his, its) vibrational essence. Mantra is a means of profoundly
changing -- or at least fine-tuning -- the sadhak's own subtle
vibrational frequency, for a staggering variety of spiritual
purposes. And mantra is considerably more than that, as well.
Volumes have been filled over the centuries, minutely propounding
the art and science of mantra in its infinite aspects. "Esoteric"
though much of this knowledge may be, it is extremely useful, even
indispensable at certain levels of practice. Which is why "pick
whatever mantra you want" might found somewhat lacking as
truly "practical" advice beyond the very initial, introductory
stages of self-inquiry.

*** [The] purpose of the mantra is to concentrate your thoughts and
push extraneous chatter out of your brain so you can better received
the wisdom and the enlightenment the Goddess is offering you. ***

Yes, that is certainly one "purpose" of mantra. But it's a purpose
the floats very close to the surface of a very deep ocean. Men and
women of very great spiritual accomplishment have, through the ages,
catalogued and described infinitely deeper levels of meaning and
understanding to explore. As wise as your auntie may be, these great
souls were no slouches themselves -- "esoteric" and difficult though
their teachings might appear to the novice. Generations of people
who really could not be considered fools have followed their advice
and replicated their results.

*** At least that's the way I understand it. ***

Precisely.

*** Maybe Auntie Usha can clarify if I've misstated anything. ***

No doubt.

Aum MAtangyai NamaH

Thanx, Devi Bhakta, or whatever your name is, for taking the time to
explain all this. I pretty much know all you said. But the question
becomes how much detail a person really wants to know about somebody
else's path.
My Auntie Usha's philosophy is that you are your own judge about
how to do these things. You study from other people and learn what
they have done, and try their ideas, but you decide which ones to
follow and which ones you don't. You don't follow anybody's advice
unquestioningly, including Auntie Usha's.
This is a logical conclusion from the concept that the Goddess
lives inside the soul of every individual. She never reveals herself
completely to anybody. Not to you, not to me, not to the ancient
sages, nobody. So you listen to the wise gurus and leaders who came
before us so that we can learn what the Goddess taught to them, but
then we have to allow the piece of the Goddess that lies within us
the freedom to express herself through us, making through each of us
whatever contribution she wishes to make to the vast pool of wisdom.
So the experience is and should be different for everybody. And we
all swap notes. You teach me what you've learned and I teach you my
revelations.
This may be different from the way you guys do things, but like
you said yourself, Auntie Usha never claims to be following the same
path as you.
Thanx again.

Yvonne

> Western Neo-Pagans often cannot grasp the fact that
> Sanskrit mantra cannot be "translated" -- ... As if chanting in
> English would have the same effect in performing a
> Puja!

Sometimes I do it in Spanish. I believe the Goddess understands all
languages.

> I've always been told that PRAYER is the art of
> speaking to the Godhead; and MEDITATION (with or
> without mantra) is the art of listening to the
> Godhead.

Probably true.

Yvonne

Yvonne writes:

*** Thanx, Devi Bhakta, or whatever your name is, for taking the
time to explain all this. ***

You are quite welcome. *lol*

*** I pretty much know all you said. ***

Then I defer to you, and thank you for your patience with my
prattling.

*** Len commented: "Western Neo-Pagans often cannot grasp the fact
that Sanskrit mantra cannot be "translated" -- ... As if chanting in
English would have the same effect in performing a Puja!

Yvonne responded: "Sometimes I do it in Spanish. I believe the
Goddess understands all languages." ***

I think you're missing (and perhaps illustrating) Len's point.
Obviously, the idea of a deity whose understanding is limited to a
few human languages is patently absurd.

What Len said, and what I was trying to say in my post also, is
that -- in Hindu systems at least -- the primary significance of a
mantra is its vibrational quality. Its literal and symbolic meanings
are important too, of course, but the vibrational science of japa
(having been developed in and around India, using Sanskrit letters)
tends to be Sanskrit-specific.

Prayer is another matter altogether. There, of course, meaning is
central. And there is never any question of whether this language or
that one "works" -- ultimately, you are addressing your own essence,
and deep and complete understanding by the deity is really a given.
But mantra and prayer are not necessarily interchangeable concepts.

*** Yvonne wrote: "Huh? You mean turn it [i.e., anger] off?"

I am sorry for being unclear. My meaning was that anger is a very
simple and base emotion. Even tiny little children are already very
good at it. Controlled avoidance or alleviation of anger, on the
other hand, is a very difficult and sophisticated human emotional
accomplishment. But -- as with all other "esoteric" skills -- that
does not mean it is not worth developing.

DB

Interesting Quote from Meru Tantra:

There will be born at London English folk whose mantra for worship is
in the Phiringa (foreign) language, who will be undefeated in battle
and Lords of the World - Meru Tantra, XXIII, 17th century


> *** Len commented: "Western Neo-Pagans often cannot grasp the fact
> that Sanskrit mantra cannot be "translated" -- ... As if chanting
in > English would have the same effect in performing a Puja!
>
> Yvonne responded: "Sometimes I do it in Spanish. I believe the
> Goddess understands all languages." ***
>
> I think you're missing (and perhaps illustrating) Len's point.
> Obviously, the idea of a deity whose understanding is limited to a
> few human languages is patently absurd.
>
> What Len said, and what I was trying to say in my post also, is
> that -- in Hindu systems at least -- the primary significance of a
> mantra is its vibrational quality. Its literal and symbolic
meanings
> are important too, of course, but the vibrational science of japa
> (having been developed in and around India, using Sanskrit letters)
> tends to be Sanskrit-specific.

I thank Devi Bhakta for his kind and patient discussions with Yvonne on
this subject. I have one comment to add.
To continue with your analogy to teaching someone to paint: Yes,
teach the student to paint and to paint well, but do not tell her what
to paint. Ask her to study the works and methods of the great masters,
but then ask her to produce something original, from her own heart.

Sister Usha