I offer three options

01-10-2007, 04:40 AM

Dear Ramakanta Prabhu,
PAMHO. AGTSP!
With regards the lie, you write:

I am glad to see that you do not believe that one has to suddenly drop dead
in order to be delivered.>

Apology accepted. From my words:

“Yet if we again apply reductio ad absurdum...”

It was clear I was about to point out what I perceived to be the absurd
repercussions of a position that APPEARED to assert that disciples were
transferred back to the spiritual sky at the moment they are initiated; not put
forward a theory I personally believed. Maybe it’s your problem with English.
You later claimed you were not talking about the ceremony, but I still have no
idea what you mean by phrases such as ‘the time of initiation’, ‘the
initiation’ or ‘initiate the delivery’. You simply never told us.

You used your misunderstanding of what I believe as the reason why you did not
want to ‘discuss delivery’:

don't want to discuss delivery with you.>

Now that we have cleared up your misunderstanding you have no excuse not to go
ahead and support your claim with either MATCHING evidence (if you want to
follow your own criterion for what constitutes proof in a debate) or at the
very least directly supporting evidence for the following claim which you made
long before your recent barrage of distractive and easily answered challenges:

“Srila Prabhupada cannot initiate the delivery of disciples on this planet
without being present (incarnated) on this planet” (Ramakanta das)

Of course you are free at any time to give up and drop out of the debate, but
my three options are still on the table if you want to try and prove your claim
or withdraw it:

1) Admit you have not yet proved the above claim with MATCHING or DIRECTLY
SUPPORTIVE evidence. In which case I shall happily, and with great relish
dismember your latest challenge.

2) We can go through each piece of evidence you have offered to supposedly
prove your claim one at a time (starting with the letter to JPS).

3) You can present for my analysis just your star piece of evidence that you
think exactly matches or directly supports the claim you have made, and which
you still maintain has been ‘proved’.

If you cannot prove your claim it puts you in a similar position to the GBC,
who you agree have never, to this day, provided any evidence proving that they
were authorised to initiate their own disciples in ISKCON, despite their many
claims to the contrary, and despite their definition as a body that were only
meant to manage systems Srila Prabhupada personally established.

Remember, of the evidence you have offered so far…

a) None of it contains the phrase ‘initiate the delivery’.
b) One quote you offer contains the words ‘initiates’ and ‘deliver’ but says
nothing about needing to be on ‘this planet’ in order to do it, so is
irrelevant to your claim. (We all agree the guru initiates the disciple to
deliver him- what’s the big deal?)
c) Not one of the quotes you offer contains the phrase ‘this planet’ or ‘same
planet’ or even the word ‘planet’.
d) None of the quotes even deal with the circumstances in which diksa or
initiation ‘cannot’ take place, and are thus all irrelevant to your claim.
e) None of the quotes even contain the word ‘cannot’, do they?

Given the above it’s just completely ludicrous that you continue to maintain
you have proven your claim. So why not set a good example and do what you have
just said is ‘very wise’? Just let me know if you want to now 'drop out' since
you have no more excuses or distractions left.

Best wishes
Ys
Yadu

----- Original Message ----
From: Ramakanta (das) HKS (PAMHO.NET SysOp) (Zurich - CH)

To: Initiations in ISKCON
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 6:33:00 AM
Subject: Re: Please withdraw your lie, then prove your claim.

Dear Yaduraja Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP!

> “Srila Prabhupada cannot initiate the delivery of disciples on this planet
> without being present (incarnated) on this planet”

It is nice that you repeat this statement so often.

> a) withdraw your lie

Sorry, I did not know that you do not believe everything what you write.
I am glad to see that you do not believe that one has to suddenly drop dead
in order to be delivered.

> b) take up one of the 3 options I have offered.

I chose 2). But you will have to do it without any input from me.

My guess was correct, you will not dismember my latest challenge. So it
remains intact: You don't know what you are talking about.

You can at any time give up and drop out of the debate.

ys Ramakanta dasa

--------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send an email to:
Initiations.in.ISKCON-Owner (AT) pamho (DOT) net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com