Official Ramakanta vs. IRM discussion thread

Posted by Yaduraja Nov 06, 2006:

Dear Ramakanta prabhu,
PAMHO, AGTSP,
You pompously boast:

> Yes, I refuse to speculate.

So you obviously have no firm information on exactly when, where and how
Srila Prabhupada authorised his replacement as ISKCON’s sole diksa guru.
Neither does the GBC so you are in very ‘eminent’ company on that one.

> This is fuzzy because you did not explain what you mean by "physically
> present before" and "physically meet". Do you mean that their gross
> material bodies must touch each other, or what?

Your position on this is not just fuzzy, but completely self-contradictory.
You need to decide whether or not the guru must be physically present on the
same planet as the disciple in order to deliver him.

If he does, then obviously none of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples, and
certainly no followers of those disciples, can currently be delivered. In
which case what is the point in this debate, since whoever is right, no-one
is going to be delivered anyway!!!

once again this is the IRM’s position:

"Srila Prabhupada remains within this material universe, though not
necessarily in the physical presence of his disciples, in order to continue
delivering them so they can be ‘transferred to the spiritual sky’."

The above is free from speculation since it is consistent with Srila
Prabhupada’s teachings, and hence his mercy.

Regarding the following quote:

"My Guru Maharaja used to say like that, that "Finish this business in this
life. Don't delay for the next life." He was telling also that "Don't give
me trouble again to come here to deliver you." That is the responsibility of
spiritual master. Spiritual master responsibility is to take the disciple to
Krsna, until he is able to do, to help him, to help him, to help him. That
is the verdict of the sastras. Just like Bilvamangala Thakura. His spiritual
master delivered him, taking the shape of a prostitute. So these stories are
there." (Lecture on SB 6.3.18, Feb 11, 1971)

You ask:

> If the spiritual master does not have to be present (incarnated) on the
> same planet as his disciple to deliver his disciple, as you claim, then
> why did Srila Prabhupada quote his Guru Maharaja saying that he has to
> come here?

If your challenge had any merit then obviously no-one connected to ISKCON,
in any way shape or form, for the last three decades could have been be
delivered, since, so far as we are aware, Srila Prabhupada has not been on
this particular planet for that entire period.

Please clarify if this is your position, why should I be the only person who
has the decency to answer questions?

You previously challenged even this notion-that Srila Prabhupada is
physically absent from this planet- (not realising that either way we must
still follow the July 9th directive) such was your utter confusion during
your previous speculative period- (up till your last post) -thankfully now
behind us.

In the quote you gave could you please tell me the exact geographical
location the word ‘here’ refers to, without speculating, since you don't do
that any more?

Best wishes
Ys
Yadu