Dear Colleagues on the Indology List:

I recently came across an article in "India Abroad" newspaper which recounts
several horrible tales of caste discrimination. It is entitled "World
Meeting on Racism Ignores Caste Discrimination" (sept. 7, 2001).

In this article, it is said that, in early August, an "upper caste" Brahmin
boy and a girl from a "lower caste" Jat community were dragged to a rooftop
in village in UP and publicly hanged because of their refusal to end an
intercaste relationship.

First of all, can anyone tell me about the frequency of such incidents?
Second of all, can anyone give me some detail about the caste (could we
translate "jati" for caste) of the Jats? Can they be classified as farmers
and therefore under the Vais'ya varn.a?

Thanks,

Lynken Ghose
Mt. Allison University

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Lynken Ghose wrote:

> I recently came across an article in "India Abroad" newspaper which
recounts
> several horrible tales of caste discrimination. It is
entitled "World
> Meeting on Racism Ignores Caste Discrimination" (sept. 7, 2001).
>
> In this article, it is said that, in early August, an "upper caste"
Brahmin
> boy and a girl from a "lower caste" Jat community were dragged to a
rooftop
> in village in UP and publicly hanged because of their refusal to
end an
> intercaste relationship.

I suspect there was something more in the story which did not get
reported. The news did report that they were hanged by members of
their own families, and everyone on the village supported the hanging.

First, Jats are considered fairly high caste in the region where they
dominate. Note that Jats are not dalit. In fact there have been cases
reported where the higher caste was Jat. In 1988 there was an
incident reported where a girl was higher caste Jat "in love with"
two "untouchable" boys.

Regarding the 2001 news, it seems very odd that a Brahmin family
would agree to get their son hanged. In India, illicit sex is
considered very unacceptable. But it is primarily the girl, whose
reputation is tarnished, and it would be her family which would be
humiliated.

The normal reaction of the parents of a Brahmin boy in such a case
would be to try to keep such a relationship secret. In the worst
case, the boy would be thrown out of the family, and perhaps the
brahmin community. Why would they agree to get their son lynched?

Incidentally the Jats are a very large and influencial community,
they dominate the political scene in Punjab, Haryana, UP and and also
have significant influence in Rajasthan.

Yashwant

Lynken Ghose wrote:

> Second of all, can anyone give me some detail about the caste
>(could we translate "jati" for caste) of the Jats? Can they be
>classified as farmers and therefore under the Vais'ya varn.a?

The 4-division varna system, for all practical purposes, is
meaningless today.

Orthodox scholars would say that any community, which has not
traditionally received the sacred thread, is shudra. However
most farmers would say that they are kshatriyas.

It has been said that Jats are descendants of the Yadavas.
There are some Jat jamindar families that claim descent from
Rajputs. Maharaja Ranjit Singh of Punjab, a jat, had wives
from Rajput hill chief families, suggesting that he was
accepted as an equal.

There are a few books on the Jat community. I have "History of Origin
of Some Clans in India with special reference to Jats" by Mangal Sen
Jindal (ISBN 81-85341-08-6). The analysis is perhaps not very
scholarly, but it is a nice compilation.

Yashwant

--- In INDOLOGY@y..., ymalaiya@y... wrote:
> The 4-division varna system, for all practical purposes, is
> meaningless today.
>
> Orthodox scholars would say that any community, which has not
> traditionally received the sacred thread, is shudra. However
> most farmers would say that they are kshatriyas.

The Southern situation:
Historically, Tamil castes were not into the varNa scheme.
In the British rule, with the occupancy of most Govt. jobs
by Brahmins, and in the new cities like Madras, the shuudra-brahmin
distinction becomes wider. All castes were shuudras, except brahmins.

The Saiva mutt heads, (Darumapuram, Tiruvavaduthurai,
Tiruppanandal) - some holding 7000-10000 acres and several
temples, were velalas. The vELALas patronized some compilations
from agamas and published them. Whether the pontiffs
can ride a palanquin, whether they are fit to receive diksha etc.,
See my old posting:
http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-shl/WA...dology&P=R5157

The British colonial rulers' census operations brought
some problems when the varNa system gains ascendancy in the British
rule. Eg., One caste that made into Hindu high caste
from low status is Nadars. Traditionally toddy-tappers,
they transformed into a major trading caste. When Christian
missionaries were converting them in large numbers, some
well-to-do Nadars claimed that they are Aryans.

The million dollar question, Who is shudra? and Southern efforts
to run from the characterization can be studied from
agamas, both shaiva and srivaishnava.
http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-shl/WA...dology&P=R7496

The Liberals funded a 800+ page compilation, varuNakulacintAmaNi
(The nationalist poet C. Subramania Bharatiyar, among others,
wrote a foreword poem to it) saying that velalas are vaishyas.
But conservatives among velalas and brahmins wrote counter arguments
to this, and a lot of polemics in press, courts, ensued about 100
years ago.

Regards,
N. Ganesan

--- In INDOLOGY@y..., ymalaiya@y... wrote:
> Lynken Ghose wrote:
>
> > Second of all, can anyone give me some detail about the caste
> >(could we translate "jati" for caste) of the Jats? Can they be
> >classified as farmers and therefore under the Vais'ya varn.a?
>
> The 4-division varna system, for all practical purposes, is
> meaningless today.
>
> Orthodox scholars would say that any community, which has not
> traditionally received the sacred thread, is shudra. However
> most farmers would say that they are kshatriyas.
>
> It has been said that Jats are descendants of the Yadavas.
> There are some Jat jamindar families that claim descent from
> Rajputs. Maharaja Ranjit Singh of Punjab, a jat, had wives
> from Rajput hill chief families, suggesting that he was
> accepted as an equal.
>
> There are a few books on the Jat community. I have "History of
Origin
> of Some Clans in India with special reference to Jats" by Mangal
Sen
> Jindal (ISBN 81-85341-08-6). The analysis is perhaps not very
> scholarly, but it is a nice compilation.
>
> Yashwant


There are other ( more thought out ) books and versions too.

See among others :

Jats - the ancient rulers - BS Dahiya, Sterling, New Delhi

The Jats : Origins, antiquities and migrations Dr. Hukam singh Pauria

Jat Ithihaas Thakur Deshraj

Jat Viron ka ithihas _ V S Ahlawat.

and many others.

The Jats did not accept the Varna system or the superiority of
Orthodox Brahminism.

It is also incorrect to make sweeping statements that they are
descendants of Rajputs or Yadhavas.

The above writers trace them and their gotras to antiquity, and there
are considerable arguments as to origins, some think they are
autochons to India, and some trace them from central asia.

The clans names( gotras) of the Jats, Rajputs,are basically the same.

one hypothesis is : that the lower or caste status was assigned by
orthodox writers as a form of denigration for their not accepting the
orthodox hindhuism, when Hinduism as we know is was being revived 7th
8th century.

Those who did so accept , were called Rajputs.

Regards

Ravi Chaudhary