Animal rights

theist · 12-18-2002, 05:09 PM

This link will take you to a thread on http//:beliefnet.com where animal rights is being discussed. The pictures are graphic. Don't go if you want to stay attached to your apathy on the issue.

http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?pageID=1&discussionID=207548&mess ages_per_page=4

theist · 12-18-2002, 06:21 PM

This is the fate of bulls produced by the dairy industry. They can't produce milk so they are kept in these crates until slaughter. They are not allowed to move around because that would reduce the tenderness of the meat.

If you feel you must purchase milk please know the source.

stonehearted · 12-19-2002, 08:34 AM

Excellent point. A Godbrother of mine calls this the blood milk indistry. We're fortunate enough to have a devotee on this island who protects a few dozen cows and who sells us milk from cows whose baby bulls won't suffer this fate. Unfortunately, he's pretty much a one-man operation and doesn'thave facility to trainand work the bulls.

theist · 12-19-2002, 09:47 AM

Stone, what does he do with the baby bulls?

stonehearted · 12-24-2002, 06:08 AM

He keeps 'em. A couple of us have some ideas how he can come up with more support so he can develop his project. We need your blessings.

theist · 12-24-2002, 07:27 AM

stone,

Being wretched I can't offer blessings but I do wish you guys well on this.

We know in the past the bulls worked the fields. That is not so practical these days. Perhaps they will just walk around in fields eatting grass. Of course that presents other problems.

This came up on an animals right board on another forum and I could not offer and thing very positive.

If we as a society can't have milk wothout cruelty then the milk must go IMO.

Merry Christ-mass

ps the link on the first post is no longer fruitful. We suffered a troll attack that caused the whole thread to be abandoned.

Gauracandra · 12-24-2002, 06:37 PM

I really do admire this guy, as it must be extremely difficult. I posted a summary on a program about the Shakers here:

http://www.indiadivine.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=33875&page=0&v iew=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

A key part of their failing was that they just could not compete economically when the industrial revolution occured. To succeed I think devotees would need to develop some really high concentration in a single area. Then they could reasonably opt out of the broader economy for milk products. Devotees are just too thinned out to create real economic development.

madhav · 12-25-2002, 04:02 PM

How to get koshar milk?

There is Horizon Dairy that claims they treat cows humanely.
So, our family uses that product.

Does any one know first hand how they tret cows?

Another alterntive is that
A vaishnav org. or a rich vaishnav should go in dairy business, and some cow worshippers should provide free or low cost seva to the dairy to keep price competitive.
or the vaishnavas who purchase the milk should willingly pay higher price for this koshar milk.

Finally, do not buy milk and be happy.

Jai Sri Krishna!

debbie · 12-26-2002, 05:20 PM

I drink "Silk Soymilk" or "SunSoy Soymilk" as a alternative to drinking cow's milk. Since before, I was normally drinking skim milk, these made a nice alternative, for drinking or in cereal. I can't say that I have tried it in any recipes yet, but it might work in those, too. It generally comes in plain, vanilla, and chocolate. It may have other flavors too. For me, I like the vanilla and plain the best.(Sorry,I just read this, and my post sounded like a advertisement for soymilk).
Debbie

theist · 12-26-2002, 08:41 PM

Debbie, I also drink soy milk. I can't digest milk and now I see what suffering it causes. They are making it better all the time. I use it for smoothies. Vannila being my favorite. Soy milk, some fruit, berries maybe, a big spoonful of some p-nut or sesame butter and I'm on my way.

Modern milk has pus in it also. From their pumping some many hormones into the cows. their udders become grossly distended to the point of dragging on the ground. They become infected due to this and the pus cells end up in the milk right on the shelf. Yucko

madhav · 12-29-2002, 11:14 AM

i have tried it too.

i think it is good with, two drawbacks:

- In includes calcium carbonate (chalk) in it
to give appearance of milk. This CaCO3 is not soluble in water and is not an organic compound. So, if we eat it, it goes through the system and I believe it cannot give calcium the body needs. Body can use inorganic compounds of calcium only. Consequently, their claim that it is calcium rich is misleading. In the stomach I have felt weight of calcium carbonate like stone.

- We should depend less and less on tehnology if we can. So, we need to learn how to make soymilk at home or in a temple. Else we would have to go to work in factories that produce soymilk (which is not really bad compared to working in wine factory.)

Jai Sri Krishna!

theist · 02-11-2003, 01:14 AM

:"[St. Francis] looked upon creation with the eyes of one who could recognize in it the marvelous work of the hand of God. His solicitous care, not only towards men, but also towards animals is a faithful echo of the love with which God in the beginning pronounced his 'fiat' which brought them into existence. We too are called to a similar attitude." -- Pope John Paul II

Nice quote huh? But how hollow such fine sentiment rings when we learn that the bell striker is one who eats veal.

Priitaa · 02-11-2003, 12:45 PM

The milk company called "United" does not feed their cows chemically tainted foods and I am almost sure they do not kill them either.

Its best if we have our own cows. When we can't, its best we buy organic milk by those who protect their cows. However, sometimes we can't do even this, so its good to know there is a nondevotee milk compnay out there that is more humane than others. The owner loves his cows, as did his father before him.

YS,
Prtha dd

Priitaa · 02-11-2003, 01:02 PM

Be careful about soy milk. Its not the health food it appears to be. Soy in general is not as good for you as previously thought, and I admit to being attached to such products myself. However, my health forced me to surrender to accepting the truth about it. I'm not into debates so if you want to read about soy and the little known harm it can also do, here is a url.

http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/

If we drink milk according to the Ayurvedic method, the way Prabhupada taught us to, it won't be mucous forming or harmful. Even, it can be healing. Many Ayurvedic formula's include milk as a carrier.

For those who have an intolleance, that is a medical condition and something different. Try yogurt. I know a woman who was pregnant, lactose intollerant, but had no problem with (plain, unsweetened) yogurt. Use it as a salad dressing, etc. This may not work for all, but probably for a lot, since yogurt contains digestive enzymes and other benefits.

Just ideas. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Thanks for loaning an ear. Haribol!

YS,
Prtha dd

livingentity · 02-11-2003, 01:20 PM

I have milk intolerance and have no problem at all with yoghurt. Basically, yoghurt is already digested so there is no problem with it just sitting in the body fermenting like milk does with those who have the intolerance.

Little side story about milk intolerance:

About 20 years ago I started having horrid stomach pains and went to the doctor who told me that he did not even have to test me to know that I had an ulcer and to drink lots and lots of milk. I was already drinking a lot of milk at that time and upped it because of this doctor's orders.

Well, things went from bad to worse and the doctor did not help.

A friend of mine had married a doctor from India and they came to visit me. I told him the situation and he told me to immediately stop the milk.

The rest is history and this verifies the fact that "Doctors PRACTICEmedicine!"

livingentity · 02-11-2003, 01:23 PM

that we have on the treatment of dairy cows and the things that are done to the milk afterwards....perhaps milk intolerance isn't so bad afterall.

theist · 02-11-2003, 02:16 PM

Hare Krsna Pritha,

You said:"The milk company called "United" does not feed their cows chemically tainted foods and I am almost sure they do not kill them either."

Is this company a devotee owned business somewhere? I have never heard of them.

The question I would have is what do they do with the male calves. I hope they hide them from the Pope. But it is a serious question. In the US the dairy industry has no use for male calves. The calves want to drink their mothers milk(imagine that) and would diminish the profits. There is little or no use for bulls in society except as a meat source. The male calves are usually taken from their mothers and put in two foot wide crates with no room to move. This keeps their flesh nice and tender. They are also fed a liquid diet, milk maybe with some formula, but with a purposeful lack of iron. When there is an iron deficency the flesh remains a milky white color, which those with this taste find very attractive.

So myself I will not take milk products and support this. It is easier for me to "renounce" because I can't digest it anyway. I thought for years I was lactose intolerant but some one on these forums pointed out I may be allergic to the casein, the milk protein, instead of the sugar. Not sure but it definetly is a poison to me.

Anyway, we should be aware that by buying milk from the regular market, organic or not, we are supporting the slaughter of calves. At the same time we preach cow protection. There is a certain disconnect somewhere.

Hare Krsna