Equine sarcoid: Acupuncture, Thuja or Sarcoid Nosode?

Hi Jutta, & All,

 

Jutta wrote:

> Hi Phil and Are, Thanks for your great advice. I will try Thuja

> first. Phil, what do you think of a sarcoid nosode ? Do you have

> any experience with that? The horse has no history of scrotal/cord

> lesion or sensitivity in that area. I will keep you informed of any

> progress, thanks again, kind regards, Jutta

 

Sorry, Jutta, I have much less first-hand experience of homeopathy than of AP.

Also, I have never treated a sarcoid with EITHER Thuja or a nosode because I

have never had to treat treat sarcoids!

 

WWW has only 428 hits for the profile: nosode sarcoid OR sarcoids OR wart

OR warts OR papilloma OR papillomas

[ http://tinyurl.com/5qgv8 ]

 

It has NO hits for the profile: " sarcoid nosode " This means that the nosode in

the 428 hits were OTHER THAN sarcoid nosode.

 

In contrast, WWW has about 15,900 hits for the profile: thuja sarcoid OR

sarcoids OR wart OR warts OR papilloma OR papillomas

[ http://tinyurl.com/5u5a4 ]

 

IMO, Thuja is a better option. If it fails, I would try acupuncture, as in my

earlier

mail. If THAT fails (within a few weeks), I would try " Cansema Black Salve " .

See: http://tinyurl.com/64ng5

 

Ingredients in different formulations of Black Salve are at:

http://health.centreforce.com/health/cansemaorder.html

 

A list of other ingredients in the company's list and their actions are at:

http://health.centreforce.com/health/formulas.html

 

The Cansema formula (ingredients, percentages, and manufacturing methods)

has evolved over time, largely to improve performance and minimize pain

management issues. The current ingredients are:

Zinc chloride (Cl2Zn)

Chaparral (Larrea mexicata)

Bloodroot (Sanguinaria canadensis)

Galangal root (Alpinia officinarium) or ginger root (Zingiber officinale)

Graviola leaf (Annona muricata)

Bitter melon seed (Momordica charantia)

Glycerine (used as a humectant, to keep the product moist).

DMSO (Dimethylsulphoxidein) in Cansema Deep Tieeue

 

Variants include emu oil and DMSO (USP) added at 15% to aid skin

penetration for deeper lesions.

 

There is also a veterinary version, not as strong (escharotic), and taking some

extra days to work. See: http://www.altcancer.com/cansema_v.htm

 

There also are versions for internal use.

 

Some of the time-lapse photos of the salve at work are most impressive. See:

http://www.diamondjdonkeys.com/Sassie.htm

 

" We then thought that it must be some sort of sarcoid growth and consulted

with our natural vet contact. We started Sassie on nosode sarcoid medicine

and a topical viral cream; since the most common sarcoids are caused by a

virus. There was no change in the size or the irritated look of the lump, so we

discontinued the medicines " . Later, they had surgery + chemo, which failed,

and they tried " Cansema Black Salve " .

 

http://www.altcancer.com/testimonials/elmo.htm

http://www.altcancer.com/can2.htm

http://www.altcancer.com/can2b.htm

http://www.altcancer.com/can2c.htm

 

Judge the outcomes for yourself!

 

Best wishes,

Phil

 

PS: Was the gelding vaccinated in the months before the onset of the sarcoid?

Some WWW sources claim that sarcoids can arise as a side-effect of

vaccines. This is controversial, because others say that autovaccination helpt

to prevent relapse after sarcoid surgery. For example:

 

Therapeutic vaccines in the treatment of equine papilloma virus infection [

http://tinyurl.com/6wy87 ]: NOLTE, O., Weiss, H.-E., & Sonntag, H.-G.

Hygiene Institute, Dept. of Hygiene & Medical Microbiology, Im Neuenheimer

Feld 324, D-69120 Heidelberg Tel.: +49/6221/567812; Fax.: +49/6221/565627;

E-mail: Oliver_Nolte P57 3rd Annual Conference on

Vaccine Research Washington D.C. April 30th -Mai 2nd 2000. Background:

Equine sarcoids (Fig. 1) are probably the most common manifestations of

cutanous tumors in horses and it`s phylogenetic relatives. It is discussed that

equine papilloma virus is the causative agent of this in most cases benigne

tumor (1). However, treatment is complicated by a high rate of relapse after

surgery. After carbon dioxide laser surgery the rate of relapse was reported to

be 38% (2). Because of that high rate of recurrence a great variety of post-

operative preventative treatments have been proposed. These proposals include

non specific treatment using emulsified BCG (Mycobacterium tuberculosis

Bacillus Calmette Guerin, see Ref. 3) or other nonspecific immune stimulating

preparations. However, the success and usefulness of those methods is

subject of controversy debate (4). Another method of treatment is the use of

tumor material to stimulate the immune system specifically (5). Basing on our

experience in using autovaccination to treat various forms of infectious

diseases

in humans (see for instance Poster 1, this conference) and animals (see also

talk S40, this conference), we started to evaluate patient specific

autovaccination (Fig. 2) for the prevention of post-operative recurrent

sarcoids.

Conclusions: Autovaccination for prevention of recurrent equine sarcoids, which

are normally observed quite often following surgery, seems to be a useful

method of treatment. The rate of recurrence was 12.9 % when our autovaccine

was used for prevention, thus being much lower than reported previously (2).

However, a long time observation is necessary to evaluate the actual success

rate of this methodology. Although there is no significant difference in the

time

without relapse between those animals vaccinated after primary and after

recurrent sarcoids, long term studies are necessary to examine whether

primary or secondary sarcoids are of influence concerning efficacy of

autovaccination. Analysis of changes in the lymphocyte sub-populations in the

blood of six horses during the course of autovaccination revealed no

differences.

The immunological background of the functioning of autovaccines therefor

remains unknown. The autovaccine in general seems to be safe (because only

material is used which is already recognized by the immune system). However,

one of the horses in this study was reported to have shown adverse reaction

(i.e. shock). The reason for this is hitherto unknown, the phenomena must be

taken into account when using autovaccines. However, out of several thousand

animals autovaccinated against a variety of micro-organisms and diseases

throughout the last years, this was the first report of serious adverse effects.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

J wrote [to PA-L]:

> Hi all, We have a 4 year old gelding with a sarcoid growing just

> above the medial aspect of the left eye. During the summer we had

> it removed surgically from the roots with a good prognosis given.

> However, in the last month it has reappeared and is now 2.5cm in

> length at base and 0.5cm in height. We feel that a further

> operation may not prove successful and wonder if any of you had

> success in treating a sarcoid by alternative means? Kind regards, J

> & I

 

I would begin Tx here with a single dose of Thuja C30 and wait 4

days to see what happens. If there is no improvement, I would try

Are Thoresen's method.

 

Are gave a paper at the IVAS Congress, in Oostende, on his

methods of treating cancer and sarcoids. He uses the Ko Cycle -

just one needle on the CHANNEL that CONTROLS the pathway or

organ of the primary lesion (cancer / sarcoid).

 

If the sarcoid is EXACTLY on BL (Water) Channel, the KO

(Controlling) Channel is SP-EARTH.

 

Try needling ONE Pt on SP Channel. It could be SP01 (Jing/Ting-

Well Pt), or SP09-He-Sea-WATER Pt, or any SP Pt that your

instinct suggests.

 

Needle the LEFT Pt and leave it in for 10-20 minutes. If no

improvement after 14 days, try another session, or email Are at

" Are Thoresen " <arethore

 

Nose and penis/vagina are related via the Chongmai, which

connects the perineum/groin area/organs to the vomeronasal

organ, and LI20 connects to ST01 (eye). KI Governs testis and

cornea, and BL Channel is mate of KI. Testicles on their cords are

like eyes on their optic nerves.

 

By any chance does/did the horse have a badly-healed scrotal/cord

incision, or sensitivity on the cord? [best regards, Phil]

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

 

Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing

it "

Hi Jutta, & All,

 

Jutta wrote:

> Hi Phil and Are, Thanks for your great advice. I will try Thuja

> first. Phil, what do you think of a sarcoid nosode ? Do you have

> any experience with that? The horse has no history of scrotal/cord

> lesion or sensitivity in that area. I will keep you informed of any

> progress, thanks again, kind regards, Jutta

 

Sorry, Jutta, I have much less first-hand experience of homeopathy than of AP.

Also, I have never treated a sarcoid with EITHER Thuja or a nosode because I

have never had to treat treat sarcoids!

 

WWW has only 428 hits for the profile: nosode sarcoid OR sarcoids OR wart

OR warts OR papilloma OR papillomas

[ http://tinyurl.com/5qgv8 ]

 

It has NO hits for the profile: " sarcoid nosode " This means that the nosode in

the 428 hits were OTHER THAN sarcoid nosode.

 

In contrast, WWW has about 15,900 hits for the profile: thuja sarcoid OR

sarcoids OR wart OR warts OR papilloma OR papillomas

[ http://tinyurl.com/5u5a4 ]

 

IMO, Thuja is a better option. If it fails, I would try acupuncture, as in my

earlier

mail. If THAT fails (within a few weeks), I would try " Cansema Black Salve " .

See: http://tinyurl.com/64ng5

 

Ingredients in different formulations of Black Salve are at:

http://health.centreforce.com/health/cansemaorder.html

 

A list of other ingredients in the company's list and their actions are at:

http://health.centreforce.com/health/formulas.html

 

The Cansema formula (ingredients, percentages, and manufacturing methods)

has evolved over time, largely to improve performance and minimize pain

management issues. The current ingredients are:

Zinc chloride (Cl2Zn)

Chaparral (Larrea mexicata)

Bloodroot (Sanguinaria canadensis)

Galangal root (Alpinia officinarium) or ginger root (Zingiber officinale)

Graviola leaf (Annona muricata)

Bitter melon seed (Momordica charantia)

Glycerine (used as a humectant, to keep the product moist).

DMSO (Dimethylsulphoxidein) in Cansema Deep Tieeue

 

Variants include emu oil and DMSO (USP) added at 15% to aid skin

penetration for deeper lesions.

 

There is also a veterinary version, not as strong (escharotic), and taking some

extra days to work. See: http://www.altcancer.com/cansema_v.htm

 

There also are versions for internal use.

 

Some of the time-lapse photos of the salve at work are most impressive. See:

http://www.diamondjdonkeys.com/Sassie.htm

 

" We then thought that it must be some sort of sarcoid growth and consulted

with our natural vet contact. We started Sassie on nosode sarcoid medicine

and a topical viral cream; since the most common sarcoids are caused by a

virus. There was no change in the size or the irritated look of the lump, so we

discontinued the medicines " . Later, they had surgery + chemo, which failed,

and they tried " Cansema Black Salve " .

 

http://www.altcancer.com/testimonials/elmo.htm

http://www.altcancer.com/can2.htm

http://www.altcancer.com/can2b.htm

http://www.altcancer.com/can2c.htm

 

Judge the outcomes for yourself!

 

Best wishes,

Phil

 

PS: Was the gelding vaccinated in the months before the onset of the sarcoid?

Some WWW sources claim that sarcoids can arise as a side-effect of

vaccines. This is controversial, because others say that autovaccination helpt

to prevent relapse after sarcoid surgery. For example:

 

Therapeutic vaccines in the treatment of equine papilloma virus infection [

http://tinyurl.com/6wy87 ]: NOLTE, O., Weiss, H.-E., & Sonntag, H.-G.

Hygiene Institute, Dept. of Hygiene & Medical Microbiology, Im Neuenheimer

Feld 324, D-69120 Heidelberg Tel.: +49/6221/567812; Fax.: +49/6221/565627;

E-mail: Oliver_Nolte P57 3rd Annual Conference on

Vaccine Research Washington D.C. April 30th -Mai 2nd 2000. Background:

Equine sarcoids (Fig. 1) are probably the most common manifestations of

cutanous tumors in horses and it`s phylogenetic relatives. It is discussed that

equine papilloma virus is the causative agent of this in most cases benigne

tumor (1). However, treatment is complicated by a high rate of relapse after

surgery. After carbon dioxide laser surgery the rate of relapse was reported to

be 38% (2). Because of that high rate of recurrence a great variety of post-

operative preventative treatments have been proposed. These proposals include

non specific treatment using emulsified BCG (Mycobacterium tuberculosis

Bacillus Calmette Guerin, see Ref. 3) or other nonspecific immune stimulating

preparations. However, the success and usefulness of those methods is

subject of controversy debate (4). Another method of treatment is the use of

tumor material to stimulate the immune system specifically (5). Basing on our

experience in using autovaccination to treat various forms of infectious

diseases

in humans (see for instance Poster 1, this conference) and animals (see also

talk S40, this conference), we started to evaluate patient specific

autovaccination (Fig. 2) for the prevention of post-operative recurrent

sarcoids.

Conclusions: Autovaccination for prevention of recurrent equine sarcoids, which

are normally observed quite often following surgery, seems to be a useful

method of treatment. The rate of recurrence was 12.9 % when our autovaccine

was used for prevention, thus being much lower than reported previously (2).

However, a long time observation is necessary to evaluate the actual success

rate of this methodology. Although there is no significant difference in the

time

without relapse between those animals vaccinated after primary and after

recurrent sarcoids, long term studies are necessary to examine whether

primary or secondary sarcoids are of influence concerning efficacy of

autovaccination. Analysis of changes in the lymphocyte sub-populations in the

blood of six horses during the course of autovaccination revealed no

differences.

The immunological background of the functioning of autovaccines therefor

remains unknown. The autovaccine in general seems to be safe (because only

material is used which is already recognized by the immune system). However,

one of the horses in this study was reported to have shown adverse reaction

(i.e. shock). The reason for this is hitherto unknown, the phenomena must be

taken into account when using autovaccines. However, out of several thousand

animals autovaccinated against a variety of micro-organisms and diseases

throughout the last years, this was the first report of serious adverse effects.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

J wrote [to PA-L]:

> Hi all, We have a 4 year old gelding with a sarcoid growing just

> above the medial aspect of the left eye. During the summer we had

> it removed surgically from the roots with a good prognosis given.

> However, in the last month it has reappeared and is now 2.5cm in

> length at base and 0.5cm in height. We feel that a further

> operation may not prove successful and wonder if any of you had

> success in treating a sarcoid by alternative means? Kind regards, J

> & I

 

I would begin Tx here with a single dose of Thuja C30 and wait 4

days to see what happens. If there is no improvement, I would try

Are Thoresen's method.

 

Are gave a paper at the IVAS Congress, in Oostende, on his

methods of treating cancer and sarcoids. He uses the Ko Cycle -

just one needle on the CHANNEL that CONTROLS the pathway or

organ of the primary lesion (cancer / sarcoid).

 

If the sarcoid is EXACTLY on BL (Water) Channel, the KO

(Controlling) Channel is SP-EARTH.

 

Try needling ONE Pt on SP Channel. It could be SP01 (Jing/Ting-

Well Pt), or SP09-He-Sea-WATER Pt, or any SP Pt that your

instinct suggests.

 

Needle the LEFT Pt and leave it in for 10-20 minutes. If no

improvement after 14 days, try another session, or email Are at

" Are Thoresen " <arethore

 

Nose and penis/vagina are related via the Chongmai, which

connects the perineum/groin area/organs to the vomeronasal

organ, and LI20 connects to ST01 (eye). KI Governs testis and

cornea, and BL Channel is mate of KI. Testicles on their cords are

like eyes on their optic nerves.

 

By any chance does/did the horse have a badly-healed scrotal/cord

incision, or sensitivity on the cord? [best regards, Phil]

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

 

Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing

it "

Jutta (??? – not sure of the name of the original poster)

 

I have had to deal w/ equine sarcoids -- they are not an easy

condition to treat. Let me state up front that I am not a

veterinarian. I am sharing information based on my personal

experience that includes working very closely with my team of

veterinarians -- my primary allopathic vet, a TCM vet, a homeopathic

vet and a chiropractic vet (all are DVMs).

 

First, you may want to consider (with your vet) the pros/cons of

submitting a tissue sample for a biopsy/histopath. Especially if

you've tried treatments for sarcoids that aren't working as expected.

One of the major cons is that the irritation caused by collecting the

tissue may trigger the growth to increase in size. However, if you

are considering another surgical removal of the growth, that would be

an ideal time.

 

In one case, the first histopath report that came back to us stated

that the growth was nothing more than proud flesh. My vet thought

this was complete hogwash and contacted a colleague of hers in

Oklahoma, Dr. Rezabek DVM (a specialist in this area), for a second

opinion.

 

In this case, we had assumed the growth was a sarcoid, but Dr.

Rezabek's histopath report indicated it was actually a soft tissue

sarcoma (that didn't present in the usual manner, hence the initial

misdiagnosis). This distinction became important in the way we

eventually resolved the situation.

 

With regards to homeopathy – we did not find homeopathic Thuja to be

effective in this case. After appropriate timing, we also tried other

appropriate remedies to no noticeable affect.

 

With regards to acupuncture – I would recommend NOT to do local

acupuncture (either in the growth itself or in the classic " surround

the dragon " manner) because any irritation of the growth often

triggers an increase in growth. (This may seem like an obvious point

to make, however not all DVMs who do acupuncture are thoroughly

versed in CM theory.) This goes for any bumps or scrapes to the

growth as a result of horse-play or training. In my horse w/ the soft

tissue sarcoma (which was located just above the coronet band) as the

growth got very large (about 1.5x the size of a golf ball) it was

especially prone to being knocked on cavelletti poles and the like

resulting in bleeding and irritation and more growth. Yu Nan Bai Yao

was effective in stopping the bleeding, although my horse found it to

be slightly irritating and wasn't entirely happy about the

application – so use with caution on horses that tend to strike out.

 

With regards to Chinese herbs – we did not find this to be effective

(and we gave it a good year+). Despite our efforts to transform

phlegm, soften hardness, dissipate nodules etc., there was no

improvement in the condition. As we know, phlegm nodules are

difficult to treat – this outward/exterior manifestation of stubborn

substantial phlegm was very resistant to treatment.

 

With regards to topical Chinese herbal treatment – During one vet

visit, we decided to try a topical application of phlegm resolving

herbs (mu li, xia ku cao, xuan Shen, bai jie zi, etc) and within 10

minutes of the application, my horse experienced a (singular) episode

of severe, acute ataxia and disorientation to the point that we

thought she was going to fall down. As soon as she safely could, my

vet began to needle points to extinguish wind and in about 7 minutes,

the episode was over. Unfortunately, my horse ended up effusing the

tendon sheath in her left front lower limb as a result of her

stumbling and scrambling to maintain balance. I am glad it happened

in the presence of my vet as I had immediate support available.

 

I'm not trying to say that the external herb application caused the

ataxia, just reporting the facts as they happened. The ataxia could

have been a completely unrelated (to the topical herbs) occurrence as

my horse had, 1 week prior, gotten cast in her stall in which she

thrashed about quite a bit before we got her free. My chiropractic

vet, who came the day after the ataxic episode, theorized that the

subluxations she felt in the cervical spine were enough to explain

the ataxia (I should state here that she treated my horses regularly

and so was very familiar with how they usually felt). I am still to

this day puzzled by the timing of it all. After my horse recovered, I

had her thoroughly checked out and in every way, including

neurologically, my horse checked out fine.

 

My allopathic vet suggested the topical application of a product

called " Xxterra " (developed by Dr. Larson, DVM at CSU) which also

contains the herb bloodroot (as was the product that Phil referred

to). This product is also sometimes referred to as Indian Mud,

however I can only speak to the preparation labeled as Xxterra. It

worked for the sarcoid, however was not initially effective for the

soft tissue sarcoma.

 

In the end, what worked for the soft tissue sarcoma was a combination

surgical excision and topical application. First, my vet surgically

removed as much of the sarcoma as was safe. The growth had a huge

blood supply, so I had a large amount of Yu Nan Bai Yao ready to pack

onto the wound over which my vet placed a pressure bandage. The next

day, I changed the bandage and began applying the Xxterra over the

next few weeks. Because of the close proximity of the sarcoma to the

coronet band, my vet could not fully excise the growth. The Xxterra

seemed able to get at the remaining growth without risk of injury to

the coronet band. However, it was trial/error before we actually got

results with this product – we found certain application methods to

be more effective than others. I can attest to the claim that this

product does not harm normal skin in any way – which is in part why

we had poor results initially with the soft tissue sarcoma. If

someone wants more specifics, feel free to email me directly. I also

documented the entire process w/ digital photos.

 

If the Xxterra had not been effective, our next course of action

would have been to use locally injected chemotherapy.

 

Xxterra is only available to DVMs, so you would have to get it from

your vet. Below is a URL to this product as a result of a google

search (this is not an endorsement of the website itself, just simply

a link to information): http://www.vetlineequine.com/xxterra.asp

 

We have not had a recurrence of any of the growths that we treated

with Xxterra. Again, this is just my personal experience and is not

meant to act as veterinary advice one way or the other. Continue your

research & consultations with your vets and work together to find a

solution for your specific circumstances.

 

The Cansema product referred to by Phil seems like a similar product

to Xxterra with a few more herbs thrown in. However, I take personal

issue with using animal-derived products (e.g., the emu oil) with

herbivores. I know it's commonly done with nary a second thought, but

it just seems wrong and unnatural in my opinion.

 

Joy

Hi All,

 

Re treating equine sarcoids, here is another suggestion, from Joy

Keller. See: http://www.vetlineequine.com/xxterra.asp and

http://tinyurl.com/42s2a

 

[Thanks, Joy. Your note, and the data on that URL are

enlightening!]

 

Also, one writer claimed that nail-varnigh remover worked!

Post subject: Nail varnish remover: During research for my thesis a

local vet advised of a 5yr old horse with several mixed sarcoids that

had been treated with nail varnish remover successfully. Hasten to

add it was the owner that took this course of treatment, not the vet.

AnnMarie. See: http://tinyurl.com/5lr6j

 

Some links with info on sarcoids & treatment.

 

Sarcoid E-Group

equine_sarcoid/?yguid=10654258

Compound X: Integration of Developmental Toxicity Findings to

Estimate Potential for Human Risk

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/99n2079/ts00006/

Contemporary History of the Escharotic Black Salve

http://www.planetherbs.com/articles/black_salve.html

http://herbsforhealth.about.com

http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/balofgilblac.html

http://www.curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=254 & i=714

 

Best regards,

Phil

 

XXTERRA™ [sOLD ONLY TO VETERINARIANS] is an herbal

paste for sarcoids. Made from zinc salt, water and Bloodroot

(Sanguineria canadensis) XXTERRA™ is the most effective

treatment sarcoids available today.

 

Dr. Ken Larson developed the product at the CSU College of

Veterinary Medicine in 1970, continuous use and refinement have

produced XXTERRA™, as we know it today.

 

Sarcoids, which are the benign skin tumors of horses, are

refractory to most forms of treatments. XXTERRA™ effects

sarcoids by altering the tumor antigens in-vivo. This stimulates the

immune system to recognize them as foreign and mount a

response quite similar to the host vs. graft rejection. The tumor bed

becomes lined with sensitized WBC's and becomes inflamed

causing it to slough off. It can become quite sore to the touch,

however this sensitivity lasts only a few days.

 

XXTERRA™ has been effective in >95% of the sarcoids treated.

Equine warts, squamous cell carcinoma, proud flesh, melanoma

and fibromas are other conditions it has been used on with various

levels of success. It remains to be seen how many other

neoplasms may be treated with XXTERRA™ as various members

of the AAEP are doing continued experimentation. Total failures

have been observed in rare instances and have been attributed to a

non-functional immune system.

 

XXTERRA™ appears safe on normal skin. It has been used in the

oral cavity of humans and dogs with no ill effects. Application to

shaved legs of 10 horses under a wrap for 7 days produced only

transient erythema on 2 horses. Continued contact to the hands

and arms of Dr. Larson for over 30 years have produced nothing but

transient dry skin.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Joy wrote (to Chinese Herbal Medicine List):

 

Jutta, I have had to deal w/ equine sarcoids -- they are not an easy

condition to treat. Let me state up front that I am not a veterinarian.

I am sharing information based on my personal experience that

includes working very closely with my team of veterinarians -- my

primary allopathic vet, a TCM vet, a homeopathic vet and a

chiropractic vet (all are DVMs).

 

First, you may want to consider (with your vet) the pros/cons of

submitting a tissue sample for a biopsy/histopath. Especially if

you've tried treatments for sarcoids that aren't working as

expected. One of the major cons is that the irritation caused by

collecting the tissue may trigger the growth to increase in size.

However, if you are considering another surgical removal of the

growth, that would be an ideal time.

 

In one case, the first histopath report that came back to us stated

that the growth was nothing more than proud flesh. My vet thought

this was complete hogwash and contacted a colleague of hers in

Oklahoma, Dr. Rezabek DVM (a specialist in this area), for a

second opinion.

 

In this case, we had assumed the growth was a sarcoid, but Dr.

Rezabek's histopath report indicated it was actually a soft tissue

sarcoma (that didn't present in the usual manner, hence the initial

misdiagnosis). This distinction became important in the way we

eventually resolved the situation.

 

With regards to homeopathy – we did not find homeopathic Thuja

to be effective in this case. After appropriate timing, we also tried

other appropriate remedies to no noticeable affect.

 

With regards to acupuncture – I would recommend NOT to do local

acupuncture (either in the growth itself or in the classic " surround

the dragon " manner) because any irritation of the growth often

triggers an increase in growth. (This may seem like an obvious

point to make, however not all DVMs who do acupuncture are

thoroughly versed in CM theory.) This goes for any bumps or

scrapes to the growth as a result of horse-play or training. In my

horse w/ the soft tissue sarcoma (which was located just above the

coronet band) as the growth got very large (about 1.5x the size of a

golf ball) it was especially prone to being knocked on cavelletti

poles and the like resulting in bleeding and irritation and more

growth. Yu Nan Bai Yao was effective in stopping the bleeding,

although my horse found it to be slightly irritating and wasn't

entirely happy about the application – so use with caution on

horses that tend to strike out.

 

With regards to Chinese herbs – we did not find this to be effective

(and we gave it a good year+). Despite our efforts to transform

phlegm, soften hardness, dissipate nodules etc., there was no

improvement in the condition. As we know, phlegm nodules are

difficult to treat – this outward/exterior manifestation of stubborn

substantial phlegm was very resistant to treatment.

 

With regards to topical Chinese herbal treatment – During one vet

visit, we decided to try a topical application of phlegm resolving

herbs (mu li, xia ku cao, xuan Shen, bai jie zi, etc) and within 10

minutes of the application, my horse experienced a (singular)

episode of severe, acute ataxia and disorientation to the point that

we thought she was going to fall down. As soon as she safely

could, my vet began to needle points to extinguish wind and in

about 7 minutes, the episode was over. Unfortunately, my horse

ended up effusing the tendon sheath in her left front lower limb as a

result of her stumbling and scrambling to maintain balance. I am

glad it happened in the presence of my vet as I had immediate

support available.

 

I'm not trying to say that the external herb application caused the

ataxia, just reporting the facts as they happened. The ataxia could

have been a completely unrelated (to the topical herbs) occurrence

as my horse had, 1 week prior, gotten cast in her stall in which she

thrashed about quite a bit before we got her free. My chiropractic

vet, who came the day after the ataxic episode, theorized that the

subluxations she felt in the cervical spine were enough to explain

the ataxia (I should state here that she treated my horses regularly

and so was very familiar with how they usually felt). I am still to this

day puzzled by the timing of it all. After my horse recovered, I had

her thoroughly checked out and in every way, including

neurologically, my horse checked out fine.

 

My allopathic vet suggested the topical application of a product

called " Xxterra " (developed by Dr. Larson, DVM at CSU) which also

contains the herb bloodroot (as was the product that Phil referred

to). This product is also sometimes referred to as Indian Mud,

however I can only speak to the preparation labeled as Xxterra. It

worked for the sarcoid, however was not initially effective for the

soft tissue sarcoma.

 

In the end, what worked for the soft tissue sarcoma was a

combination surgical excision and topical application. First, my vet

surgically removed as much of the sarcoma as was safe. The

growth had a huge blood supply, so I had a large amount of Yu Nan

Bai Yao ready to pack onto the wound over which my vet placed a

pressure bandage. The next day, I changed the bandage and

began applying the Xxterra over the next few weeks. Because of

the close proximity of the sarcoma to the coronet band, my vet

could not fully excise the growth. The Xxterra seemed able to get

at the remaining growth without risk of injury to the coronet band.

However, it was trial/error before we actually got results with this

product – we found certain application methods to be more effective

than others. I can attest to the claim that this product does not

harm normal skin in any way – which is in part why we had poor

results initially with the soft tissue sarcoma. If someone wants

more specifics, feel free to email me directly. I also documented

the entire process w/ digital photos.

 

If the Xxterra had not been effective, our next course of action

would have been to use locally injected chemotherapy.

 

Xxterra is only available to DVMs, so you would have to get it from

your vet. Below is a URL to this product as a result of a google

search (this is not an endorsement of the website itself, just simply

a link to information): http://www.vetlineequine.com/xxterra.asp

 

We have not had a recurrence of any of the growths that we treated

with Xxterra. Again, this is just my personal experience and is not

meant to act as veterinary advice one way or the other. Continue

your research & consultations with your vets and work together to

find a solution for your specific circumstances.

 

The Cansema product referred to by Phil seems like a similar

product to Xxterra with a few more herbs thrown in. However, I take

personal issue with using animal-derived products (e.g., the emu

oil) with herbivores. I know it's commonly done with nary a second

thought, but it just seems wrong and unnatural in my opinion. Joy

 

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

 

Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing

it "

Hi Phil,

We have what I have assumed is a sarcoid on the ribs of a 4 yr old. After

direct scaring moxa, we are applying an over the counter wart stick and it

seems to be resolving quite nicely. Don't know of course if it will come

back... just thought to mention it.

 

Direct moxa has strong immune stimulating properties.

Best wishes

 

 

 

[]

Wednesday, 8 December 2004 4:40 AM

vet-ie-list; PVA-L ; VBMA;

juttabrassil

Cc: Chinese Medicine ; joy-keller

Re: Equine sarcoid: Acupuncture, Thuja or Sarcoid Nosode?

 

 

Hi All,

 

Re treating equine sarcoids, here is another suggestion, from Joy

Keller. See: http://www.vetlineequine.com/xxterra.asp and

http://tinyurl.com/42s2a

 

[Thanks, Joy. Your note, and the data on that URL are

enlightening!]

 

Also, one writer claimed that nail-varnigh remover worked!

Post subject: Nail varnish remover: During research for my thesis a

local vet advised of a 5yr old horse with several mixed sarcoids that

had been treated with nail varnish remover successfully. Hasten to

add it was the owner that took this course of treatment, not the vet.

AnnMarie. See: http://tinyurl.com/5lr6j

 

Some links with info on sarcoids & treatment.

 

Sarcoid E-Group

equine_sarcoid/?yguid=10654258

Compound X: Integration of Developmental Toxicity Findings to

Estimate Potential for Human Risk

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/99n2079/ts00006/

Contemporary History of the Escharotic Black Salve

http://www.planetherbs.com/articles/black_salve.html

http://herbsforhealth.about.com

http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/balofgilblac.html

http://www.curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=254 & i=714

 

Best regards,

Phil

 

XXTERRA™ [sOLD ONLY TO VETERINARIANS] is an herbal

paste for sarcoids. Made from zinc salt, water and Bloodroot

(Sanguineria canadensis) XXTERRA™ is the most effective

treatment sarcoids available today.

 

Dr. Ken Larson developed the product at the CSU College of

Veterinary Medicine in 1970, continuous use and refinement have

produced XXTERRA™, as we know it today.

 

Sarcoids, which are the benign skin tumors of horses, are

refractory to most forms of treatments. XXTERRA™ effects

sarcoids by altering the tumor antigens in-vivo. This stimulates the

immune system to recognize them as foreign and mount a

response quite similar to the host vs. graft rejection. The tumor bed

becomes lined with sensitized WBC's and becomes inflamed

causing it to slough off. It can become quite sore to the touch,

however this sensitivity lasts only a few days.

 

XXTERRA™ has been effective in >95% of the sarcoids treated.

Equine warts, squamous cell carcinoma, proud flesh, melanoma

and fibromas are other conditions it has been used on with various

levels of success. It remains to be seen how many other

neoplasms may be treated with XXTERRA™ as various members

of the AAEP are doing continued experimentation. Total failures

have been observed in rare instances and have been attributed to a

non-functional immune system.

 

XXTERRA™ appears safe on normal skin. It has been used in the

oral cavity of humans and dogs with no ill effects. Application to

shaved legs of 10 horses under a wrap for 7 days produced only

transient erythema on 2 horses. Continued contact to the hands

and arms of Dr. Larson for over 30 years have produced nothing but

transient dry skin.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Joy wrote (to Chinese Herbal Medicine List):

 

Jutta, I have had to deal w/ equine sarcoids -- they are not an easy

condition to treat. Let me state up front that I am not a veterinarian.

I am sharing information based on my personal experience that

includes working very closely with my team of veterinarians -- my

primary allopathic vet, a TCM vet, a homeopathic vet and a

chiropractic vet (all are DVMs).

 

First, you may want to consider (with your vet) the pros/cons of

submitting a tissue sample for a biopsy/histopath. Especially if

you've tried treatments for sarcoids that aren't working as

expected. One of the major cons is that the irritation caused by

collecting the tissue may trigger the growth to increase in size.

However, if you are considering another surgical removal of the

growth, that would be an ideal time.

 

In one case, the first histopath report that came back to us stated

that the growth was nothing more than proud flesh. My vet thought

this was complete hogwash and contacted a colleague of hers in

Oklahoma, Dr. Rezabek DVM (a specialist in this area), for a

second opinion.

 

In this case, we had assumed the growth was a sarcoid, but Dr.

Rezabek's histopath report indicated it was actually a soft tissue

sarcoma (that didn't present in the usual manner, hence the initial

misdiagnosis). This distinction became important in the way we

eventually resolved the situation.

 

With regards to homeopathy – we did not find homeopathic Thuja

to be effective in this case. After appropriate timing, we also tried

other appropriate remedies to no noticeable affect.

 

With regards to acupuncture – I would recommend NOT to do local

acupuncture (either in the growth itself or in the classic " surround

the dragon " manner) because any irritation of the growth often

triggers an increase in growth. (This may seem like an obvious

point to make, however not all DVMs who do acupuncture are

thoroughly versed in CM theory.) This goes for any bumps or

scrapes to the growth as a result of horse-play or training. In my

horse w/ the soft tissue sarcoma (which was located just above the

coronet band) as the growth got very large (about 1.5x the size of a

golf ball) it was especially prone to being knocked on cavelletti

poles and the like resulting in bleeding and irritation and more

growth. Yu Nan Bai Yao was effective in stopping the bleeding,

although my horse found it to be slightly irritating and wasn't

entirely happy about the application – so use with caution on

horses that tend to strike out.

 

With regards to Chinese herbs – we did not find this to be effective

(and we gave it a good year+). Despite our efforts to transform

phlegm, soften hardness, dissipate nodules etc., there was no

improvement in the condition. As we know, phlegm nodules are

difficult to treat – this outward/exterior manifestation of stubborn

substantial phlegm was very resistant to treatment.

 

With regards to topical Chinese herbal treatment – During one vet

visit, we decided to try a topical application of phlegm resolving

herbs (mu li, xia ku cao, xuan Shen, bai jie zi, etc) and within 10

minutes of the application, my horse experienced a (singular)

episode of severe, acute ataxia and disorientation to the point that

we thought she was going to fall down. As soon as she safely

could, my vet began to needle points to extinguish wind and in

about 7 minutes, the episode was over. Unfortunately, my horse

ended up effusing the tendon sheath in her left front lower limb as a

result of her stumbling and scrambling to maintain balance. I am

glad it happened in the presence of my vet as I had immediate

support available.

 

I'm not trying to say that the external herb application caused the

ataxia, just reporting the facts as they happened. The ataxia could

have been a completely unrelated (to the topical herbs) occurrence

as my horse had, 1 week prior, gotten cast in her stall in which she

thrashed about quite a bit before we got her free. My chiropractic

vet, who came the day after the ataxic episode, theorized that the

subluxations she felt in the cervical spine were enough to explain

the ataxia (I should state here that she treated my horses regularly

and so was very familiar with how they usually felt). I am still to this

day puzzled by the timing of it all. After my horse recovered, I had

her thoroughly checked out and in every way, including

neurologically, my horse checked out fine.

 

My allopathic vet suggested the topical application of a product

called " Xxterra " (developed by Dr. Larson, DVM at CSU) which also

contains the herb bloodroot (as was the product that Phil referred

to). This product is also sometimes referred to as Indian Mud,

however I can only speak to the preparation labeled as Xxterra. It

worked for the sarcoid, however was not initially effective for the

soft tissue sarcoma.

 

In the end, what worked for the soft tissue sarcoma was a

combination surgical excision and topical application. First, my vet

surgically removed as much of the sarcoma as was safe. The

growth had a huge blood supply, so I had a large amount of Yu Nan

Bai Yao ready to pack onto the wound over which my vet placed a

pressure bandage. The next day, I changed the bandage and

began applying the Xxterra over the next few weeks. Because of

the close proximity of the sarcoma to the coronet band, my vet

could not fully excise the growth. The Xxterra seemed able to get

at the remaining growth without risk of injury to the coronet band.

However, it was trial/error before we actually got results with this

product – we found certain application methods to be more effective

than others. I can attest to the claim that this product does not

harm normal skin in any way – which is in part why we had poor

results initially with the soft tissue sarcoma. If someone wants

more specifics, feel free to email me directly. I also documented

the entire process w/ digital photos.

 

If the Xxterra had not been effective, our next course of action

would have been to use locally injected chemotherapy.

 

Xxterra is only available to DVMs, so you would have to get it from

your vet. Below is a URL to this product as a result of a google

search (this is not an endorsement of the website itself, just simply

a link to information): http://www.vetlineequine.com/xxterra.asp

 

We have not had a recurrence of any of the growths that we treated

with Xxterra. Again, this is just my personal experience and is not

meant to act as veterinary advice one way or the other. Continue

your research & consultations with your vets and work together to

find a solution for your specific circumstances.

 

The Cansema product referred to by Phil seems like a similar

product to Xxterra with a few more herbs thrown in. However, I take

personal issue with using animal-derived products (e.g., the emu

oil) with herbivores. I know it's commonly done with nary a second

thought, but it just seems wrong and unnatural in my opinion. Joy

 

Best regards,

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

 

Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man

doing it "

 

 

http://babel.altavista.com/

 

and adjust

accordingly.

 

If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being

delivered.

 

 

 

Hi Sharon, & All,

 

> Hi Phil, We have what I have assumed is a sarcoid on the ribs of a

> 4 yr old. After direct scaring moxa, we are applying an over the

> counter wart stick and it seems to be resolving quite nicely.

> Don't know of course if it will come back... just thought to

> mention it. Direct moxa has strong immune stimulating properties.

> Best wishes,

 

Many thanks, Shar.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

 

Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing

it "