Dreams

06-02-2002, 12:24 AM

I sense that at times, not all times of course, but at times, dreams
can be much more than just this projection of our inner state of
being.
I also think that existence, in or out of the dream state actually
defies simple reduction into single word or even multi-word
distillation. As tempting as it is to joyfully wrap all into these
inclusive and happy wrappers, all is pretty big, and tends to defy
such simple expedients.
Sure, we are wave/points of existence in a sea of other wave/points
that could be seen or considered a single ongoing/changing enitity in
the flux of the great ALL, but that does not get us closer to
understaning the underlying mechanics of consciousness in a state by
state, moment by moment search of dream realities. THings do go on
in the dream state...often just the mundane stuff of daily waking
states superimposed on the subconscious mind with a good dosage of
physiological input, past memory, etc.
However, it often transcends this simple state by leaps and bounds and
enters in a superpositional state where the actual boundary realities
of physics come into question. Time and place are challenged and
individuals who have had one or more such vivid "waking dream"
experiences are usually very moved or stunned--even disturbed by the
experience because it often jars their sense of reality.
I believe this deserves a more detailed and scientific inquiry...there
should be some forms of repeatable testing that could be done to
better understand this mechanism. Can such states be iunduced? If
so, how? If so, what is the underlying mechanism? If we can gain
some knowledge of this, we can intuit or perhaps more accurately
suggest a larger universal mechanism.
Yeah, I know, it is all Divine Allness and Love.
OK,
but really, what is going on here?
Love,
Zenbob

06-02-2002, 12:24 AM

I sense that at times, not all times of course, but at times, dreams
can be much more than just this projection of our inner state of
being.
I also think that existence, in or out of the dream state actually
defies simple reduction into single word or even multi-word
distillation. As tempting as it is to joyfully wrap all into these
inclusive and happy wrappers, all is pretty big, and tends to defy
such simple expedients.
Sure, we are wave/points of existence in a sea of other wave/points
that could be seen or considered a single ongoing/changing enitity in
the flux of the great ALL, but that does not get us closer to
understaning the underlying mechanics of consciousness in a state by
state, moment by moment search of dream realities. THings do go on
in the dream state...often just the mundane stuff of daily waking
states superimposed on the subconscious mind with a good dosage of
physiological input, past memory, etc.
However, it often transcends this simple state by leaps and bounds and
enters in a superpositional state where the actual boundary realities
of physics come into question. Time and place are challenged and
individuals who have had one or more such vivid "waking dream"
experiences are usually very moved or stunned--even disturbed by the
experience because it often jars their sense of reality.
I believe this deserves a more detailed and scientific inquiry...there
should be some forms of repeatable testing that could be done to
better understand this mechanism. Can such states be iunduced? If
so, how? If so, what is the underlying mechanism? If we can gain
some knowledge of this, we can intuit or perhaps more accurately
suggest a larger universal mechanism.
Yeah, I know, it is all Divine Allness and Love.
OK,
but really, what is going on here?
Love,
Zenbob

06-02-2002, 12:24 AM

I sense that at times, not all times of course, but at times, dreams
can be much more than just this projection of our inner state of
being.
I also think that existence, in or out of the dream state actually
defies simple reduction into single word or even multi-word
distillation. As tempting as it is to joyfully wrap all into these
inclusive and happy wrappers, all is pretty big, and tends to defy
such simple expedients.
Sure, we are wave/points of existence in a sea of other wave/points
that could be seen or considered a single ongoing/changing enitity in
the flux of the great ALL, but that does not get us closer to
understaning the underlying mechanics of consciousness in a state by
state, moment by moment search of dream realities. THings do go on
in the dream state...often just the mundane stuff of daily waking
states superimposed on the subconscious mind with a good dosage of
physiological input, past memory, etc.
However, it often transcends this simple state by leaps and bounds and
enters in a superpositional state where the actual boundary realities
of physics come into question. Time and place are challenged and
individuals who have had one or more such vivid "waking dream"
experiences are usually very moved or stunned--even disturbed by the
experience because it often jars their sense of reality.
I believe this deserves a more detailed and scientific inquiry...there
should be some forms of repeatable testing that could be done to
better understand this mechanism. Can such states be iunduced? If
so, how? If so, what is the underlying mechanism? If we can gain
some knowledge of this, we can intuit or perhaps more accurately
suggest a larger universal mechanism.
Yeah, I know, it is all Divine Allness and Love.
OK,
but really, what is going on here?
Love,
Zenbob

06-02-2002, 10:14 AM

--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., zen2wrk@a... wrote:
>>> However, it [dreaming] often transcends this simple state by leaps
and bounds and enters in a superpositional state where the actual
boundary realities of physics come into question. Time and place are
challenged and individuals who have had one or more such vivid "waking
dream" experiences are usually very moved or stunned--even disturbed
by the experience because it often jars their sense of reality. <<<

Excellent that, the idea of the dream state as a 'superpositional
state'. What if we can look at visionary states that way as well...
Hey and why not dealing with samadhi that way?

It would move us into a scientific treatment.

Is it needed...?
Nothing is needed...
Everything is about freedom...
So...?

No matter how various awareness states of being are categorized: as
reality or illusion, as dream or hallucination, as vision or
imagination, as lie or truth... These states are 'noted'. A fresh
look from the newest scientific approaches would be beneficial...
Some fresh approach that does not drag in outdated misconceptions and
worn out or untenable worldviews.

Wim

06-02-2002, 01:43 PM

Hi Dan,

You wrote:
>>> Kick your teacher in the ass, and then yourself.
You've both fallen for the seduction of "Awareness."
:-) <<<

Never had a teacher, Dan...!

And why oh why using the word 'seduction'...?
And why oh why the notion that we may have 'fallen for' something?
And why oh why your interest in even the possibility of seduction?

Wim

PS
>>> Kick your teacher in the ass, and then yourself.<<<
Dan, when show me how you kick yourself in the ass, I will take you on as my
teacher and I will gladly kick you in the ass. :-)

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06-02-2002, 02:27 PM

Hi Dan,

You asked:
>>> *Why* oh why using the word "why"...? <<<
You then wrote :
>>> You've fallen for asking why. <<<

Duh !

Wim :-)

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06-03-2002, 08:09 AM

--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., zen2wrk@a... wrote:

>but really, what is going on here?

.....an excellent question!

06-03-2002, 11:52 AM

--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., Wim Borsboom wrote:

No matter how various awareness states of being are categorized: as
reality or illusion, as dream or hallucination, as vision or
imagination, as lie or truth... These states are 'noted'.

.....Very observant, Wim! :-))

yes, every state -- from the sublime to the ridiculous, so to speak --
witness consciousness, formless consciousness, unity consciousness,
ego consciousness, etc. are all arising in a "context" (Awareness)
which cannot be "known", but which embraces every state
simultaneously, and is Source for the emergence and the dissolution
of any and all states of experience. when identity is fixated at any
state, then all that is seen is filtered "through the eyes" of that
state, thus the hunkering down in less than Freedom. this is a point
that many involved in so-called spiritual adventures miss, unless
they have the benefit of a true teacher who can kick their ass
whenever they are tempted to fall for the old seductions.

LoveAlways,

b

06-03-2002, 12:21 PM

--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., "hrtbeat7" wrote:
> --- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., Wim Borsboom wrote:
>
> No matter how various awareness states of being are categorized: as
> reality or illusion, as dream or hallucination, as vision or
> imagination, as lie or truth... These states are 'noted'.
>
>
>
> ....Very observant, Wim! :-))
>
> yes, every state -- from the sublime to the ridiculous, so to
speak --
> witness consciousness, formless consciousness, unity consciousness,
> ego consciousness, etc. are all arising in a "context" (Awareness)
> which cannot be "known", but which embraces every state
> simultaneously, and is Source for the emergence and the dissolution
> of any and all states of experience. when identity is fixated at
any
> state, then all that is seen is filtered "through the eyes" of that
> state, thus the hunkering down in less than Freedom. this is a
point
> that many involved in so-called spiritual adventures miss, unless
> they have the benefit of a true teacher who can kick their ass
> whenever they are tempted to fall for the old seductions.
>
> LoveAlways,
>
> b

Kick your teacher in the ass, and then yourself.

You've both fallen for the seduction of "Awareness."

:-)

Dan

06-03-2002, 01:04 PM

Another kick! That simultaneity is a seduction as well...
At 07:21 PM 6/3/02 +0000, dan330033 wrote:
--- In HarshaSatsangh@y...,
"hrtbeat7"
wrote:
> witness consciousness, formless consciousness, unity
consciousness,
> ego consciousness, etc. are
all arising in a "context" (Awareness)
> which cannot be "known", but which embraces every state
> simultaneously, and is Source for the emergence and the dissolution
> of any and all states of experience. when identity is fixated at
Kick your teacher in the ass, and then yourself.
You've both fallen for the seduction of "Awareness."
:-)
Dan
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All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,
perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and
subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not
different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the
nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always
Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to
be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of
Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome
all to HarshaSatsangha.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

06-03-2002, 01:18 PM

--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., "dan330033" wrote:

>You've both fallen for the seduction of "Awareness."

..... so many mistake the pointing for the moon.

06-03-2002, 01:20 PM

--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., Greg Goode wrote:

> Another kick! That simultaneity is a seduction as well...

.....LOL --

the proverbial one-legged man at a butt-kicking contest!

06-03-2002, 01:37 PM

And a kick for getting your kicks from kicks!

:-)

Master, it is said you've been known
to get your kicks on Route 66 --

:-)

--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., Greg Goode wrote:
> Another kick! That simultaneity is a seduction as well...
>
> At 07:21 PM 6/3/02 +0000, dan330033 wrote:
> >--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., "hrtbeat7" wrote:
>
> > witness consciousness, formless consciousness, unity
consciousness,
> >> ego consciousness, etc. are all arising in a "context"
(Awareness)
> >> which cannot be "known", but which embraces every state
> >> simultaneously, and is Source for the emergence and the
dissolution
> >> of any and all states of experience. when identity is fixated at
> >
> >
> >Kick your teacher in the ass, and then yourself.
> >
> >You've both fallen for the seduction of "Awareness."
> >
> >:-)
> >
> >Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HarshaSatsangh/join
> >
> >HarshaSatsangh Magazine and Website is at
> >
> >http://www.harshasatsangh.com
> >
> >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places,
sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist
in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising
are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness
are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is
always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know
the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee
relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from
within into It Self. Welcome all to HarshaSatsangha.
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

06-03-2002, 01:38 PM

--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., "hrtbeat7" wrote:
> --- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., "dan330033" wrote:
>
> >You've both fallen for the seduction of "Awareness."
>
>
>
> .... so many mistake the pointing for the moon.

So many mistake their pointing, for a pointing

06-03-2002, 01:41 PM

> ....LOL --
>
> the proverbial one-legged man at a butt-kicking contest!

Yes, how does he do it?

06-03-2002, 01:53 PM

It's all in the wires, like a Jet Li movie!

At 08:41 PM 6/3/02 +0000, dan330033 wrote:
>> ....LOL --
>>
>> the proverbial one-legged man at a butt-kicking contest!
>
>Yes, how does he do it?

06-03-2002, 02:01 PM

Hi Wim --

> You wrote:
> >>> Kick your teacher in the ass, and then yourself.
> You've both fallen for the seduction of "Awareness."
> :-) <<<
>
> Never had a teacher, Dan...!

You have, but you didn't notice, Wim...!

> And why oh why using the word 'seduction'...?

Why oh why using the word "why"...?

> And why oh why the notion that we may have 'fallen for' something?

You've fallen for asking why.

> And why oh why your interest in even the possibility of seduction?

To relieve you of your seduction by why...

Dan

> PS
> >>> Kick your teacher in the ass, and then yourself.<<<
> Dan, when show me how you kick yourself in the ass, I will take you
on as my
> teacher and I will gladly kick you in the ass. :-)

I'm sure you would, Wim. But don't look so far away.
The goal is so much closer
than you think ...

06-03-2002, 02:02 PM

--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., Greg Goode wrote:
> It's all in the wires, like a Jet Li movie!

Yu Da Mahn!

06-03-2002, 02:20 PM

--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., "dan330033" wrote:

> So many mistake their pointing, for a pointing

.....excellent example!

Thank you, Dan! :-))

LoveAlways,

b