Value of Values

Hari OM!

This topic mainly deals with the 13th Chapter of Srimad Bhagwad
Geetha,
there are few verses what we may call values, and Swami Dayananda
Saraswathi
has written a very good commentary on this. the text by name Value
of Values.

ACtually Knowledge requires three factors,

1. the Knower
2. the object of knowledge
3, the means of knowledge.

All these factors are straight forward but the third factor may
require some
analysis.

Mind must back the sense organs.The sense organs along with the mind
are the means of knowledge, when all factors including the mind are
present knowledge takes place.

Mind must be prepared, The means of knowledge should be appropriate
capable and backed by an attentive mind, the mind not only be
capable and attentive but it must be prepared.

Words as a means of knowledge. Words of any teaching to convey
knowledge, they must be understood in the same sense as they are
understood by the teacher who wields them, means of knowledge are
available to the one who wants the knowledge, there must be present
some obstacle which is reponsible for knowledge not occuring. The
only such obstacle is the lack of preparation of the mind.

Jnanam prepares the Mind for KNowledge (Vedanta)

So the Geetha raises the appropriate values to the status of
knowledge, terming them Jnanam, (knowledge), The Jnanam of values is
preparation for gaining of self knowledge, without appropriate
values jnanam cannot occur.


Value of a Value

Any value whether it is universal or situational, is a value when I
see it as valuable to me, the comfortable me--- is the source of my
values

For the person with assimilated ethical values, LIfe becomes very
simple. NO conflicts cloud his mind. For such a person, the teaching
of Vedanta is like the meeting of gas and fire, knowledge ignites in
a flash.

In the coming days, we shall discuss the following values from
Srimad Bhagwad Geetha.

1. Amanitvam
2.Adambhitvam
3.Ahimsa
4.Ksanti
4.Arjavam
5.Acharyopasanm.
6.Saucham
7.Sthairyam
8.Atmavinigraha
9.Indriyartheshu Vairagyam
10. Anahankara
11.Janmamrtyujaravyadhiduhkhadosanudarsanam
12.Asakthi
13.Anabhisvangah Putradaragrahadisu
14.Nityam Samachittatvam Istanistopapattishu
15.Mayi Cha Ananyayogena Bhaktih Avyabhicarini
16.Vivikthadesasevitvam
17.Artih Janasamsadi
18.Tattvajnanarthadarsanam
19.Adhyatmajnananityatvam
20.Jnanam

With Love & OM!

Krishna Prasad




--- In advaitin, "advaitins" <advaitins@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In advaitin, Krishna Prasad <rkrishp99@g...>
wrote:
> > Hari OM!
> >
> > I can be a discussion lead for the topic Value of Values.
> >
> > With Love & OM!
> >
> > Krishna Prasad
> >
>
> Namaste Krishna Prasad-ji,
>
> Our sincere appreciation for your offer to lead the
> discussion. Please post your introduction/abstract when you read
this.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> List Moderators

Hari Aum, shri Krishna Prasad-ji!

what a beautiful gift from Lord Krishna right before Deepavali,(
krishna prasadam) the festival of Lights. Light always
signifies 'knowledge' or Jnana!

You are off to an auspicious start!

Thanx for listing the 20 valuable tresures!

May i kindly request you to list side by side the English translation
of these twenty attributes! I am sure you plan to do this in your
subsequent postings.

Meanwhile, thank you so much and i am amazed how you came up with
this wonderful posting at such a short notice !

with all my blessings,

yours humbly








>
> This topic mainly deals with the 13th Chapter of Srimad Bhagwad
> Geetha,
> there are few verses what we may call values, and Swami Dayananda
> Saraswathi
> has written a very good commentary on this. the text by name Value
> of Values.
>
> ACtually Knowledge requires three factors,
>
> 1. the Knower
> 2. the object of knowledge
> 3, the means of knowledge.
>
> All these factors are straight forward but the third factor may
> require some
> analysis.
>
> Mind must back the sense organs.The sense organs along with the
mind
> are the means of knowledge, when all factors including the mind are
> present knowledge takes place.
>
> Mind must be prepared, The means of knowledge should be appropriate
> capable and backed by an attentive mind, the mind not only be
> capable and attentive but it must be prepared.
>
> Words as a means of knowledge. Words of any teaching to convey
> knowledge, they must be understood in the same sense as they are
> understood by the teacher who wields them, means of knowledge are
> available to the one who wants the knowledge, there must be present
> some obstacle which is reponsible for knowledge not occuring. The
> only such obstacle is the lack of preparation of the mind.
>
> Jnanam prepares the Mind for KNowledge (Vedanta)
>
> So the Geetha raises the appropriate values to the status of
> knowledge, terming them Jnanam, (knowledge), The Jnanam of values
is
> preparation for gaining of self knowledge, without appropriate
> values jnanam cannot occur.
>
>
> Value of a Value
>
> Any value whether it is universal or situational, is a value when I
> see it as valuable to me, the comfortable me--- is the source of my
> values
>
> For the person with assimilated ethical values, LIfe becomes very
> simple. NO conflicts cloud his mind. For such a person, the
teaching
> of Vedanta is like the meeting of gas and fire, knowledge ignites
in
> a flash.
>
> In the coming days, we shall discuss the following values from
> Srimad Bhagwad Geetha.
>
> 1. Amanitvam
> 2.Adambhitvam
> 3.Ahimsa
> 4.Ksanti
> 4.Arjavam
> 5.Acharyopasanm.
> 6.Saucham
> 7.Sthairyam
> 8.Atmavinigraha
> 9.Indriyartheshu Vairagyam
> 10. Anahankara
> 11.Janmamrtyujaravyadhiduhkhadosanudarsanam
> 12.Asakthi
> 13.Anabhisvangah Putradaragrahadisu
> 14.Nityam Samachittatvam Istanistopapattishu
> 15.Mayi Cha Ananyayogena Bhaktih Avyabhicarini
> 16.Vivikthadesasevitvam
> 17.Artih Janasamsadi
> 18.Tattvajnanarthadarsanam
> 19.Adhyatmajnananityatvam
> 20.Jnanam
>
> With Love & OM!
>
> Krishna Prasad
>
>
>
>
> --- In advaitin, "advaitins" <advaitins@y...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In advaitin, Krishna Prasad <rkrishp99@g...>
> wrote:
> > > Hari OM!
> > >
> > > I can be a discussion lead for the topic Value of Values.
> > >
> > > With Love & OM!
> > >
> > > Krishna Prasad
> > >
> >
> > Namaste Krishna Prasad-ji,
> >
> > Our sincere appreciation for your offer to lead the
> > discussion. Please post your introduction/abstract when you read
> this.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > List Moderators

Namaskar, I would like to ask something about #10.
Krishna says in chapter 14 that even Satgun lead to
Ahankar since the person in question starts thinking
he is achieving something or doing something by being
a good man in daily life. Personally, I find Krishna's
words absolutely true. How to overcome this ahankar
which comes from Satguna or spiritual pursuits ?
Also, while chapter 13 lists these values, we must
also remember chapter 14 which says we should try to
become Trigunateet (i.e. simply watch things taking
place and think that gunas are playing among
themselves). Thoughts/Comments from the experienced
folks ??

thanks,
Seeker.


> 1. Amanitvam
> 2.Adambhitvam
> 3.Ahimsa
> 4.Ksanti
> 4.Arjavam
> 5.Acharyopasanm.
> 6.Saucham
> 7.Sthairyam
> 8.Atmavinigraha
> 9.Indriyartheshu Vairagyam
> 10. Anahankara
> 11.Janmamrtyujaravyadhiduhkhadosanudarsanam
> 12.Asakthi
> 13.Anabhisvangah Putradaragrahadisu
> 14.Nityam Samachittatvam Istanistopapattishu
> 15.Mayi Cha Ananyayogena Bhaktih Avyabhicarini
> 16.Vivikthadesasevitvam
> 17.Artih Janasamsadi
> 18.Tattvajnanarthadarsanam
> 19.Adhyatmajnananityatvam
> 20.Jnanam
>




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Namaste Mahadevaji:

You have raised an important question regarding the attitude of the
sadhaka. When the seeker treats the spiritual growth as a special and
impossible achievement, such a seeker achieves only 'Ahankar.' The
spiritual growth of such a seeker becomes a mere illusion. When the
pole-vaulter keeps the pole to jump, he can never jump over the fence
and this is the myth. Gunas are transitional and the goal of the
seeker is transcendental. The only to transcend all gunas is get rid
of the attitude of 'achievements' and learn to witness and
become 'detached' from all achievements including the achievement
of 'Satgun.' The message of Lord Krishna in chapter 14 is quite
subtle.The organization of the chapters 13 and 14 is quite
remarkable. The chapter 14 on 'gunas' comes immediately after a
lengthy discussion on the illusionary duality of 'field and the
knower of the field in chapter 13.'

This summary of chapter 14 provided below is compiled from Swami
Krishnananda's excellent book, "The Universal Scope of Bhagavad
Gita." The answer to your question become visible to those who
contemplate on the entire discussion.

Warmest regards,

Ram Chandran
=================
Purusha and Prakriti, are the two arms of the Omnipresence. God works
through two hands, as it were the Prussia and Prakriti of the Samkhya
philosophy. And the subject and the object we are speaking of,
consciousness and matter, are not two different things, they are the
two modes of one seamless being. Here the Bhagavadgita is going head
and shoulder above the dualistic philosophy of Samkhya dogmatism. The
Purusha, which is pure impersonal consciousness, feature less
transparency, works, or rather appears to work, through the medium of
Prakriti which is constituted of the three Gunas, or properties,
known as Sattva Rajas and Tamas. The Fourteenth Chapter is devoted
entirely to a discussion of the nature of these Gunas, the strands of
Prakriti, the Field of action.

Pure equilibrium, harmony, luminosity, are the characteristics of
Sattva; distraction, activity, dissipation, division are the
characteristics of Rajas; inertia, stability, fixity, lethargy,
sleepiness, are the characteristics of Tamas. The individual is a
component of all these qualities, Sattva, Rajas and Tamas. We are not
free from them at any time. Sometimes the one preponderates and at
other times the other. We pass through various moods in our lives,
some times dejected and melancholy are we, sometimes we are spirited
and active and run about, and sometimes we are sublime and sober and
enlightened in our outlook. But we do not maintain this attitude
throughout the day and night, inasmuch as, like the spokes of a wheel
that moves, which go up and down with the motion of the wheel.

The properties of Prakriti do not maintain a single position always,
they move with the evolutionary process of the cosmos. And with this
evolutionary process we are also dragged as contents of this vast
universe. Hence it is that we are not in any particular mood at all
times. In the progression of the soul in its aspiration and travel to
the Supreme Being it has to transcend the lower for the sake of the
higher. It may appear, for all practical purposes, that we have to
rise from Tamas to Rajas, and from Rajas to Sattva, though this is
not a mathematical movement or travel along a beaten track. There is
a commingling of qualities and we are not always, entirely, in one
state alone.

We are not hundred percent Tamasika, hundred percent Rajasika or
hundred percent Sattvika; all these things are present in us always.
Yet there is a tentative need to prepare us for the purpose of a
routine of practice which takes the shape of self-transcendence from
Tamas to Rajas, and from Rajas to Sattva. Those who are Tamasika are
lethargic, stupid, idiotic, in capable of thinking properly and
sleepy, gluttonous, etc. Those who are Rajasika are restless,
passionate, and full of desires, run about here and there, never
finding -peace in them and not having a moment of rest. Those who are
Sattvika are the people of knowledge, sedate in behavior, calm and
judicious in judgement, and these are the aspirants who are religious
and spiritual. People who pass away from this world at the time of
the preponderance of one quality or other have a corresponding
experience after death. Those who die when the quality of Sattva
preponderates go to the higher regions, the realm of angels,
paradise, Svarga-loka as we call it. Those who are Rajasika if they
die in that condition, come back to the mortal world of restless
activity. Tamas drags one down to the nether regions, to the lower
realms of suffering and unconsciousness. These Gunas are rotating and
revolving perpetually like a wheel, and they never rest in themselves
in a state of harmony at any time.

The whole universe is constituted of these Gunas, the substance of
Prakriti; inside and outside only these are present. These are the
building bricks of the cosmos. Everyone gets the opportunity to
visualize, unattached, the presence of these characters of Prakriti,
who cognizes the fact that the whole world is a drama played by these
properties. Those who remain as a witness of this entire play enacted
in the arena of experience by the Gunas but stand above them
unaffected and are able to transcend the Gunas and they go beyond the
operations of Prakriti. They are the one fit to enter into the bosom
of Brahman - the Absolute.


--- In advaitin, ABC12 XYZ34 <mahadevadvaita@y...>
wrote:
>
> Namaskar, I would like to ask something about #10.
> Krishna says in chapter 14 that even Satgun lead to
> Ahankar since the person in question starts thinking
> he is achieving something or doing something by being
> a good man in daily life. Personally, I find Krishna's
> words absolutely true. How to overcome this ahankar
> which comes from Satguna or spiritual pursuits ?

--- In advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <RamChandran@a...> wrote:
>
> This summary of chapter 14 provided below is compiled from Swami
> Krishnananda's excellent book, "The Universal Scope of Bhagavad
> Gita."

Namaste,

The complete (downloadable) book is at URL:

http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/gita_00.html


Regards,

Namaste,

For comparison, one may also refer to Chapter 16, where
most of these values are repeated under the title 'daivii sampat'
(divine qualities).

ahiMsaa
abhayam
achaapalam
aarjava
akrodha
aloluptvam
apaishunam
daanam
dama
dayaa
dhR^iti
hriiH
jnanayogavyavasthitiH
kShamaa
maardavam
naatimaanitaa
sattvasa.nshuddhiH
satya
shaantiH
shaucha
adroha
svaadhyaaya
tapa
teja
tyaaga
yajna


Regards,

Sunder



--- In advaitin, "Krishna Prasad" <rkrishp99@g...> wrote:
>
> This topic mainly deals with the 13th Chapter of Srimad Bhagwad
> Geetha,
> there are few verses what we may call values,
>
>
> Value of a Value
>
> Any value whether it is universal or situational, is a value when I
> see it as valuable to me, the comfortable me--- is the source of my
> values
>
> In the coming days, we shall discuss the following values from
> Srimad Bhagwad Geetha.
>
> 1. Amanitvam
> 2.Adambhitvam
> 3.Ahimsa
> 4.Ksanti
> 4.Arjavam
> 5.Acharyopasanm.
> 6.Saucham
> 7.Sthairyam
> 8.Atmavinigraha
> 9.Indriyartheshu Vairagyam
> 10. Anahankara
> 11.Janmamrtyujaravyadhiduhkhadosanudarsanam
> 12.Asakthi
> 13.Anabhisvangah Putradaragrahadisu
> 14.Nityam Samachittatvam Istanistopapattishu
> 15.Mayi Cha Ananyayogena Bhaktih Avyabhicarini
> 16.Vivikthadesasevitvam
> 17.Artih Janasamsadi
> 18.Tattvajnanarthadarsanam
> 19.Adhyatmajnananityatvam
> 20.Jnanam
>

Thank you Sunder-ji !

first, for bringing us bck to this month's topic 'value of values' -
a topic started by chief discussant shri Krishna Prasad-ji!

There was a digression and we all started discussing miscellaneous
topics - so, let us facilitate SHHRI Krishna Prasad's resumption of
the original topic *value of values.*

sunder-ji, if you will recall , i had already DESCRIBED the DAIVI
SAMPATH in Message 24556 !

HERE IT IS

Gitacharya bhagwan shri krishna describes these qualities of Divine
Nature AS 'DAIVI SAMPATH' in chapter 16, verse 1 ...

sri-bhagavan uvaca
abhayam sattva-samsuddhir
jnana-yoga-vyavasthitih
danam damas ca yajnas ca

svadhyayas tapa arjavam
ahimsa satyam akrodhas
tyagah shantir apaisunam
daya bhutesv aloluptvam

Mardavam hrir acapalam
tejah ksama dhrtih shaucam
adroho nati-manita
bhavanti sampadam daivim
abhijatasya bharata


The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Fearlessness; purification
of one's existence; cultivation of spiritual knowledge; charity; self-
control; performance of sacrifice; study of the Vedas; austerity;
simplicity; nonviolence; truthfulness; freedom from anger;
renunciation; tranquillity; aversion to faultfinding; compassion for
all living entities; freedom from covetousness; gentleness; modesty;
steady determination; vigor; forgiveness; fortitude; cleanliness; and
freedom from envy and from the passion for honor—these transcendental
qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine
nature.

(BHAGWAT GITA AS IT IS -Srila Prabhupada)

************************************************** ********************
so, let us drop all other subjects -such as Fasting etc and return to
'value of values' so our chief discussant feels motivaated to resume
his posts!

i apolgize for the 'detour'

harihi aum!



--- In advaitin, "Sunder Hattangadi" <sunderh@y...>
wrote:
>
> Namaste,
>
> For comparison, one may also refer to Chapter 16, where
> most of these values are repeated under the title 'daivii sampat'
> (divine qualities).
>

Namaste:

I am very pleased to see the note from Sri Adiji regarding her
decision to focus more on `values' and less on diversions. We all
know that `values' get devalued whenever the mind misses the
attention span. The entire Bhagavadgita is an illustration of this
point. Arjuna who believed on high moral values became the victim of
such diversions. The brave warrior allowed the mind to conduct an
intellectual analysis of what is right and what is wrong.
Consequently, he got confused threw his weapon on the battle field
and became helpless and pitiful. Our first lesson of Gita is not to
allow our mind to indulge in `self analysis' instead of `Self-
Awareness.' The entire Gita focuses on `Self-Knowledge' and Swami
Dayananda Saraswati's book on Value of Values describe how to acquire
jnanam (wisdom) through mind purification.

I am personally very thankful to Sri Krishna Prasad for undertaking
this excellent topic, "Value of Values" and the materials for this
topic come from Swami Dayananda Saraswati of Arsha Vidya
Gurukulam.Swamiji's book on Value of Values contains ton of
materials on this topic. Swamiji states - "No one who lives in this
world and relates to other people and things can run away from
values. And yet, values can often be a cause of conflict. This
conflict arises when the universal values are not completely
assimilated as personal values for the individual. This book can help
students and lay persons discover his/her own values for many
universal values."
The book is available at Arsha Vidya Gurukulam
(http://www.arshavidya.org) ( ISBN: 1-888325-02-8 Price; $7.00)
=====================================
These excerpts from the Book provide the theme as rightly pointed out
Sri Krishnaprasadji:
Knowledge as used here does not mean knowledge of Self but stands for
those qualities of the mind which must be present for the mind of the
seeker to be prepared for the knowledge of the Self. Knowledge of
self in this case is indicated by jneyam - that which is to be
known. Jnanam, indicates those qualities of mind which must be
present for the Vatsu, the Truth (that which is ultimately Real; that
which cannot be resolved into anything else), to be known.

For values to be personally valuable they must be discovered through
knowledge (seen as valuable by the value holder) and not simply
impressed from without. Therefore, the term 'jnanam' is quite
appropriate. The list of values constituting jnanam is long but the
qualities are interrelated, defining a harmonious frame of mind in
which knowledge can occur. Each of the terms used by Lord Krishna
highlights a certain attitude, the value for which must be discovered
personally in order that the attitude becomes a natural aspect of the
seeker's frame of mind.

Although the primary purpose of jnanam values (as told by Lord
Krishna to Arjuna) is to prepare the mind for self-knowledge, when
the total value of these values is understood one sees that these
attitudes have the highest personal values for everyone. The jnanam
values, impartially, bless and make more effective both the mind of
the everyday struggler who seeks fullness in the pursuit of artha
(securities) and kama (pleasures) and the mind of the mumuksu-
jijnyasu (the seeker of the knowledge for the sake of liberation)
who, having discerned the futility of limited ends and means, seeks
fullness through the gain of Self-knowledge - through the study of
Vedanta.
=====================================

Now that we all have decided to keep one-track mind on focusing on
the Value of Values, let us proceed without further delay!

Warmest regards,

Ram Chandran

--- In advaitin, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16@y...>
wrote:
> There was a digression and we all started discussing miscellaneous
> topics - so, let us facilitate SHHRI Krishna Prasad's resumption of
> the original topic *value of values.*

Namaste Adiji:

Thanks for your kind words and let me take this opportunity to wish
you the very best while you focus your full undivided attention in
preparing your mind for the 'KanyaDhan,' the most sacred Hindu
ritual. This ceremony fits well with the universal values that
Swamiji Dayanand proposes in the book. Across the universe, marriage
is a sacred ceremony where the two minds prepare to join together to
seek for peace and happiness. As the devoted mother, you need to
prepare yourself to be 'detached' and be happy to see her to seek the
happiness and peace with the communion with her soul mate.

Now let me refocus on Swamiji's two important themes in the book on
Value of Values:

(1) "Universal Values" (Pages 6 to 17 of the book). Swamiji claims
that certain values are universal, regardless of place or culture or
religion.
(2) "Ahimsa," (pages 31-34); Swamiji argues for the ethical mandate
of vegetarianism. Swamiji states that non-injury is a fundamental
component of universal values.

Both these themes are quite important and I hope that other members
of the list to join me and Sri Krishnaprasad to further explore these
themes in greater details;

Swamiji's first theme confirms the observation by Aldous Huxely in
the book, " The Perennial Philosophy." He declares that the
philosophy of life and soul postulated in Bhagavad Gita is superb and
unique. In the introduction to the New American Library edition of
the Bhagavad Gita, Huxely interprets the Gita as not only the
distillation of Hinduism but also the distillation of religion in
general. Huxley claims that the theology of the Gita is relevant to
all religious people not just to the Hindu because he says it
presents the four basic elements of a spiritual world view. .
Huxley presents four fundamental doctrines as what he calls the
Perennial Philosophy:

"First: the phenomenal world of matter and of individualized
consciousness - the world of things and animals and men and even
gods - is the manifestation of a Divine Ground within which all
partial realities have their being, and apart from which they would
be nonexistent.

Second: human beings are capable not merely of knowing about the
Divine Ground by inference; they can also realize its existence by a
direct intuition, superior to discursive reasoning. This immediate
knowledge unites the knower with that which is known.

Third: man possesses a double nature, a phenomenal ego and an eternal
Self, which is the inner man, the spirit, the spark of divinity
within the soul. It is possible for a man, if he so desires, to
identify himself with the spirit and therefore with the divine
Ground, which is of the same or like nature with the spirit.

Fourth: man's life on earth has only one end and purpose: to identify
himself with his eternal Self and so to come to untie knowledge of
the Divine Ground.

The greatest proponent of the second theme of Swamiji is Mahatma
Gandhiji. Gandhiji demonstrated to the world, that it is possible
for any human being to live following `Ahimsa,' and maintain the
universal values .

Warmest regards,

Ram Chandran

--- In advaitin, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16@y...>
wrote:
>
>
> Please keep sharing your knowledge with all of us

Namaste, I thought these lines are very pertinent to this thread and perhaps
Advaita.

"This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the
flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the
flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the
things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law".
Bible (Galatians - New Testament)

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness,
goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they
that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we
live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit."

Bible (Galatians - New Testamant)


best regards,
Shailendra
=

---------------------------------

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