Namaste, All Advaitins

To my earlier posting, may I add :

Unreal need not be negated, as it is unreal.

Real cannot be negated.

What one can negate is something which is neither real nor unreal. The doubt is
in the knowledge as to whether world is real or unreal. So only the knowledge
needs to be corrected and it is not necessary nor it is possible to
negate/efface the world. On rising of self knowledge, the notion about Aham,
Idam and Iswara, i.e. about myself or I, the world and Iswara, gets replaced (?)
by Knowledge. And as Arjuna said “Nashto Mohaha smrudhi labdhwa” i.e. one’s
confusion/doubt gets cleared, once and for all, and one continues to interact
with the world but with the right knowledge that the world makes me neither
happy nor unhappy, as I am happiness and Poornam itself.

Warm Regards, Hari Om



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Respected Brother Mani ,

Let me first tell you that i have always enjoyed your contributions
to this list for your fresh perspectives on many subjects. Thank you,
once again for the posts on the 'Real and the Unreal.'

If you may recall, at the very outset of this discussion, i asked a
question why this is Topic labelled 'Real and the Unreal' ? (why not
Real versus unreal?) please ponder over this deeply !!

Something cannot be both 'real' and 'unreal' - it has to be one or
the other !!! are you with me, so far?

Maniji- you state "Mithya is not unreal"

what is "mithya" ?

It is not I ( the limited being that I am) who says this...

It is our beloved ADI SHANKARA BHAGVADAPADA HIMSELF WHO PROCLAIMS AND
SUMS UP VEDANTA IN THESE THREE CRISP APHORISMS ...

(a) Brahma Satyam, (b) Jagat Mithya, and (c) Jivo Brahmaiva naparah.

NOW, WHAT IS 'SATYAM' ?

WHAT IS 'MITHYAM' ?

Satyam is -"Truth" and Mithyam is "Untruth"

What is "Truth" ? are there Many Truths?

The word "Truth" has many synonyms and is used differently in
different contexts.

1) True means "firm" -

2) True means "Stable"- .

3) True means -"constant"

4) True means "faithful"

5) True means " loyal"

6) True means "righteous"

7) True means ***Real****

8) True means " ideal"

9) True means "integrity"

and last but not least 10) True means "veracity"

s. maniji! there are "truths" and "truths" ! Ultimate Truth! Logical
Truth! Moral Truth ! Vedic Truth ! Vedantic Truth ! etc etc....

But Ultimately there is only

one Truth - ekam 'sad

Viprah bahuda vadanti- sages call it by different names.

AND THIS TRUTH IS " braHman alone is Real" and this Truth will set
you me and everyone else "free" ! am i right or wrong?

Now the word"mithya" - opposite of "true " is untrue! opposite of
real is "unreal" ...

Now what is "maya" - Maya is something that cannot be measured( from
the root word "ma" .)

I am sure you would have read Kenji's brilliant exposition on "Maya"
in the Vedas? what is this vedic *Maya *which later gave rise to
*Maya *in Vedanta?

In the vedic sense "Maya is the MOther and Measure of all things" and
the Mind. ! She is not inexistent "Ilusion" !

" Maya is a semantic ancestor of the greek mala, the midwife or wise
woman ("sage-femme" in french) who makes the mother give birth,
through the science of maieutics whose moral equivalent is taught by
Socrates." (kenji would love this !!!)

How did "maya" become "mithya"? "See the parallel between Maya and
Mithya, both of which are held to be delusional and unreal while they
in fact enshrine the ultimate imaginal truth as Aristotle emphasized
when he equated the philomythos to the philosopher. Maya is the great
mithya or the web of mythos."

KenjI explained beautifully by quoting various Rig Vedic Suktas that
How Maya is the supernatural power with mysterious and wondrous
skils -the cosmic energy of the Vedic Gods ... He quoted Rig VEDA 6-
47-16 AND 6-45-16 and addressed it as *Maya-Bhi* creative art of GOD.

Kenji gave a beautiful description of How Indra deva transforms into
many forms like clouds, thunder etc "Rupam Rupam prati rupo
bababhuva"

Maya in Prakriti is thus a formless and subtle being of Light (rig
veda 7-33-4) !

Maniji- there are many names and forms of 'reality'

1) emprical reality - world of forms and names as in the vedas

2) absolute reality - no manes , no forms

Maya - hides the Truth and misrepresents the Truth !

so Rope looks like Snake - hiding the truth

and since maya is hiding the truth , you jump over the rope thinking
it is snake - this is misrepresentation.


SO, WHAT IS THE NEXT STEP? Befriend Maya; get to know her
intimately ; surrender to her - for Maya has two aspects , Vidya and
Avidya! VIdya maya liberates; avidya maya binds you!

Our beloved Shankaracharya says ...

"He exists verily in two parts, on account of which, the two could
become husband and wife.Therefore, this space is ever filled up
completely by the woman (or the feminine principle) surely."

Do not treat "maya" as "yama" -something to be shunned ! She is to be
embraced and won over!!!! smiles!!!!

Samuel Coleridge

What if you sleep, and what if in your sleep you dreamed, and what if
in your dream you went to heaven and there plucked a strange and
beautiful flower, and what if when you awoke you had the flower in
your hand? Ah, what then?" -

Until the dawn of Knowledge of the Self, MAYA IS AS REAL AS THE SUN
BEHIND THE CLOUDS.





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