receiving the Holy Name

theist · April 20, 2006

What does it mean to receive the Holy Name from the proper source?

gHari · April 20, 2006

Sri Namamrita:

The great seventeenth-century VaiSNava poet Narottama dAsa ThAkura writes, golokera prema-dhana, hari-nAma-saGkIrtana: the transcendental sound of the holy name of the Lord has its origin in the spiritual world.

Being the sound incarnation of the Lord, therefore, the holy name is not an ordinary material sound; it is divine, transcendental. But the divine nature of the holy name remains forever a mystery to those whose approach is merely empiric or intellectual. In discussing the theology of the holy name with an assembly of scholars, SrIla HaridAsa ThAkura, the great teacher of the name, asserted, "One cannot understand the glories of the holy name merely by logic and argument." The holy name is understood and experienced only by those who have renounced all conceit and pretension and directly embraced the process of chanting with humility, faith, and devotion. As sound transmitted from afar can be heard when received by an appropriate electronic device, so transcendent, spiritual sound can be properly heard and assimilated by one equipped with the proper means to receive it: bhagavat-prema, love of God.

CC Antya 1.101:

<center>kRSNa-nAmera mahimA zAstra-sAdhu-mukhe jAni

nAmera mAdhurI aiche kAhAG nAhi zuni

</center>

kRSNa-nAmera mahimA--the glories of the holy name of Lord KRSNa; zAstra--of the revealed scriptures; sAdhu--of the devotees; mukhe--in the mouth; jAni--we can understand; nAmera mAdhurI--the sweetness of the holy name; aiche--in that way; kAhAG--anywhere else; nAhi zuni--we do not hear.

One has to learn about the beauty and transcendental position of the holy name of the Lord by hearing the revealed scriptures from the mouths of devotees. Nowhere else can we hear of the sweetness of the Lord's holy name.

PURPORT

It is said in the Padma PurANa, ataH zrI-kRSNa-nAmAdi na bhaved grAhyam indriyaiH [bRS. 1.2.234]. Chanting and hearing of the transcendental holy name of the Lord cannot be performed by the ordinary senses. The transcendental vibration of the Lord's holy name is completely spiritual. Thus it must be received from spiritual sources and must be chanted after having been heard from a spiritual master. One who hears the chanting of the Hare KRSNa mantra must receive it from the spiritual master by aural reception. SrIla SanAtana GosvAmI has forbidden us to hear the holy name of KRSNa chanted by non-VaiSNavas, such as professional actors and singers, for it will have no effect. It is like milk touched by the lips of a serpent, as stated in the Padma PurANa:

avaiSNava-mukhodgIrNaM pUtaM hari-kathAmRtam

zravaNaM naiva kartavyaM sarpocchiSTaM yathA payaH

As far as possible, therefore, the devotees in the KRSNa consciousness movement gather to chant the holy name of KRSNa in public so that both the chanters and the listeners may benefit.

SB 5.13.9:

<center>kvacin nigIrNo 'jagarAhinA jano

nAvaiti kiJcid vipine 'paviddhaH

daSTaH sma zete kva ca danda-zUkair

andho 'ndha-kUpe patitas tamisre

</center>

kvacit--sometimes; nigIrNaH--being swallowed; ajagara-ahinA--by the great snake known as the python; janaH--the conditioned soul; na--not; avaiti--understands; kiJcit--anything; vipine--in the forest; apaviddhaH--pierced by arrows of suffering; daSTaH--being bitten; sma--indeed; zete--lies down; kva ca--sometimes; danda-zUkaiH--by other kinds of snakes; andhaH--blind; andha-kUpe--in a blind well; patitaH--fallen; tamisre--in a hellish condition of life.

The conditioned soul in the material forest is sometimes swallowed by a python or crushed. At such a time he is left lying in the forest like a dead person, devoid of consciousness and knowledge. Sometimes other poisonous snakes bite him. Being blind to his consciousness, he falls down into a dark well of hellish life with no hope of being rescued.

PURPORT

When one becomes unconscious due to being bitten by a snake, one cannot understand what is taking place outside the body. This unconscious condition is the condition of deep sleep. Similarly, the conditioned soul is actually sleeping on the lap of the illusory energy. Bhaktivinoda ThAkura has sung, kota nidrA yAo mAyA-pizAcIra kole: "O living entity, how long will you sleep in this condition on the lap of the illusory energy?" People do not understand that they are actually sleeping in this material world, being devoid of knowledge of spiritual life. Caitanya MahAprabhu therefore says:

enechi auSadhi mAyA nAzibAra lAgi'

hari-nAma-mahA-mantra lao tumi mAgi'

"I have brought medicine to awaken every living being from perpetual sleep. Please receive the holy name of the Lord, the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra, and awaken." The KaTha UpaniSad (1.3.14) also says, uttiSTha jAgrata prApya varAn nibodhata: "O living entity, you are sleeping in this material world. Please get up and take advantage of your human form of life." The sleeping condition means loss of all knowledge. In Bhagavad-gItA (2.69) it is also said, yA nizA sarva-bhUtAnAM tasyAM jAgarti saMyamI: "What is night for all beings is the time of awakening for the self-controlled." Even in the higher planets, everyone is under the spell of the illusory energy. No one is really interested in the real values of life. The sleeping condition, called kAla-sarpa (the time factor), keeps the conditioned soul in a state of ignorance, and therefore pure consciousness is lost. In the forest there are many blind wells, and if one falls down in one there is no chance of being rescued. In a state of sleep, one remains perpetually bitten by some animals, especially snakes.

Sri Namamrita:

One should receive the holy name from spiritual authorities:

[sukadeva GosvAmI to King ParIkSit]: O King, constant chanting of the holy name of the Lord after the ways of the great authorities is the doubtless and fearless way of success for all, including those who are free from all material desires, those who are desirous of all material enjoyment, and also those who are self-satisfied by dint of transcendental knowledge.

Here it is mentioned that one should constantly chant the holy name of the Lord after hearing it from authorities. This means that hearing from the authorities is the first essential.

SrImad-BhAgavatam 2.1.11

The transcendental sound must be received through a representative of the disciplic succession:

Communion with the Lord by transmission of the transcendental sound is nondifferent from the whole spirit Lord SrI KRSNa. It is a completely perfect method for approaching the Lord.… There is no bar for chanting this transcendental sound by anyone, provided it is received through NArada's representative, coming down by the chain of disciplic succession, or the paramparA system.

SrImad-BhAgavatam 1.5.39

If not received through the chain of disciplic succession, the holy name does not act:

One may receive a published mantra anywhere, but unless it is accepted through the chain of disciplic succession, the mantra does not act. It is said by authoritative sources that any mantra chanted without having been received from the disciplic succession has no efficacy.

SrImad-BhAgavatam 4.8.53

The disciple receives the authority to chant the holy name from the spiritual master:

[Lord Caitanya to PrakAzAnanda SarasvatI]: "‘My dear child, continue dancing, chanting and performing saGkIrtana in association with devotees. Furthermore, go out and preach the value of chanting kRSNa-nAma, for by this process You will be able to deliver all fallen souls.' Saying this, My spiritual master taught Me one verse from SrImad-BhAgavatam. It is the essence of all the BhAgavatam's instructions; therefore he instructed Me this verse again and again. ‘When a person is actually advanced and takes pleasure in chanting the holy name of the Lord, who is very dear to him, he is agItAted and loudly chants the holy name. He also laughs, cries, becomes agItAted and chants just like a madman, not caring for outsiders.' I firmly believe in these words of My spiritual master, and therefore I always chant the holy name of the Lord, alone and in the association of devotees. That holy name of Lord KRSNa sometimes causes Me to chant and dance, and therefore I chant and dance. Please do not think that I intentionally do it. I do it automatically."

A person who cannot keep his faith in the words of his spiritual master but acts independently never receives the authority to chant the holy name of the Lord. It is said in the Vedas:

yasya deve parA bhaktir

yathA deve tathA gurau

tasyaite kathitA hy arthAH

prakAzante mahAtmanaH

[sU 6.23]

"Only unto those great souls who have implicit faith in both the Lord and the spiritual master are all the imports of Vedic knowledge automatically revealed."

This Vedic injunction is very important, and SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu supported it by His personal behavior. Believing in the words of His spiritual master, He introduced the saGkIrtana movement, just as the present KRSNa consciousness movement was started with belief in the words of our spiritual master. He wanted to preach, we believed in his words and tried somehow or other to fulfill them, and now this movement has become successful all over the world. Therefore faith in the words of the spiritual master and in the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the secret of success. SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu never disobeyed the orders of His spiritual master and stopped propagating the saGkIrtana movement.…

It is to be understood that when SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu chanted and danced, He did so by the influence of the pleasure potency of the spiritual world. SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu never considered the holy name of the Lord to be a material vibration, nor does any pure devotee mistake the chanting of the Hare KRSNa mantra to be a material musical manifestation. Lord Caitanya never tried to be the master of the holy name; rather He taught us how to be servants of the holy name. If one chants the holy name of the Lord just to make a show, not knowing the secret of success, he may increase his bile secretion, but he will never attain perfection in chanting the holy name. SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu presented himself in this way: "I am a great fool and do not have knowledge of right and wrong. In order to understand the real meaning of VedAnta-sUtra, I never followed the explanation of the SaGkara-sampradAya or MAyAvAdI sannyAsIs. I'm very much afraid of the illogical arguments of the MAyAvAdI philosophers. Therefore I think I have no authority regarding their explanations of VedAnta-sUtra. I firmly believe that simply chanting the holy name of the Lord can remove all misconceptions of the material world. I believe that simply by chanting the holy name of the Lord one can attain the shelter of the lotus feet of the Lord. In this age of quarrel and disagreement, the chanting of the holy names is the only way to liberation from the material clutches.

"By chanting the holy name," Lord Caitanya continued, "I become almost mad. However, after inquiring from My spiritual master I have come to the conclusion that instead of striving for achievement in the four principles of religiosity (dharma), economic development (artha), sense gratification (kAma) and liberation (mokSa), it is better if somehow or other one develops transcendental love of Godhead. That is the greatest success in life. One who has attained love of Godhead chants and dances by his nature, not caring for the public." This stage of life is known as bhAgavata-jIvana, or the life of a devotee."

SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu continued, "I never chanted and danced to make an artificial show. I dance and chant because I firmly believe in the words of My spiritual master. Although the MAyAvAdI philosophers do not like this chanting and dancing, I nevertheless perform it on the strength of his words. Therefore it is to be concluded that I deserve very little credit for these activities of chanting and dancing, for they are being done automatically by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

SrI Caitanya-caritAmRta Adi-lIlA 7.92–96

The holy name should be received from, and chanted under the direction of, the bona fide spiritual master:

[The transcendental sound representation] should be received from the transparent agency of the bona fide spiritual master, and the chanting may be practiced by the direction of the spiritual master. That will gradually lead us nearer to the Lord. This method of worship is recommended in the pAJcarAtrika system, which is both recognized and authorized.

SrImad-BhAgavatam 1.5.38

One can understand the glories of the holy name by the mercy of the spiritual master:

The holy name and the Lord are identical. One who is completely free from the clutches of mAyA can understand this fact. This knowledge, which is achieved by the mercy of the spiritual master, places one on the supreme transcendental platform. SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu presented Himself as a fool because prior to accepting the shelter of a spiritual master He could not understand that simply by chanting one can be relieved from all material conditions. But as soon as He became a faithful servant of His spiritual master and followed his instructions, He very easily saw the path of liberation.

SrI Caitanya-caritAmRta Adi-lIlA 7.73

The spiritual master delivers the disciple from mAyA by initiating him into the chanting of the holy name:

It is the spiritual master who delivers the disciple from the clutches of mAyA by initiating him into the chanting of the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra. In this way a sleeping human being can revive his consciousness by chanting Hare KRSNa, Hare KRSNa, KRSNa KRSNa, Hare Hare/ Hare RAma, Hare RAma, RAma RAma, Hare Hare. In other words, the spiritual master awakens the sleeping living entity to his original consciousness so that he can worship Lord ViSNu. This is the purpose of dIkSA, or initiation. Initiation means receiving the pure knowledge of spiritual consciousness.

SrI Caitanya-caritAmRta Madhya-lIlA 9.61

One must receive the mahA-mantra from a guru, who makes it more powerful:

[Lord Siva to the sons of King PrAcInabarhi]: Now I shall chant one mantra which is not only transcendental, pure and auspicious, but is the best prayer for anyone who is aspiring to attain the ultimate goal of life. When I chant this mantra, please hear it carefully and attentively.

Lord Siva voluntarily came to bless the sons of the King as well as do something beneficial for them. He personally chanted the mantra so that the mantra would be more powerful, and he advised that the mantra be chanted by the King's sons (rAja-putras). When a mantra is chanted by a great devotee, the mantra becomes more powerful. Although the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra is powerful in itself, a disciple upon initiation receives the mantra from his spiritual master, for when the mantra is chanted by the spiritual master, it becomes more powerful. Lord Siva advised the sons of the King to hear him attentively, for inattentive hearing is offensive.

SrImad-BhAgavatam 4.24.31–32

Being preserved and transmitted through disciplic succession, the holy names of Lord KRSNa and Lord Caitanya have as much potency now as during the physical appearance of Lord Caitanya:

Although Sri Caitanya MahAprabhu did not manifest His natural ecstatic love, everyone became a pure devotee simply by seeing and hearing Him.

Srila RUpa GosvAmI has described SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu as mahA-vadAnya-avatAra, the most munificent incarnation. Although SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu is not physically present now, simply by chanting His holy name (zrI-kRSNa-caitanya prabhu nityAnanda zrI-advaita gadAdhara zrIvAsAdi-gaura-bhakta-vRnda) people throughout the world are becoming devotees. This is due to the ecstatic chanting of the holy name of the Lord. It is said that a pure devotee can see the Lord every moment, and because of this he is empowered by the Lord. This is confirmed in Brahma-saMhitA: premAJjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaH sadaiva hRdayeSu vilokayanti [bs. 5.38]. SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu appeared five hundred years ago, but it cannot be said that now the potency of the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra is less powerful than it was in His presence. By hearing SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu through the paramparA system, one can be purified. Therefore in this verse it is said: tathApi tAGra darzana-zravaNa-prabhAve. It is not that everyone is able to see KRSNa or SrI KRSNa Caitanya MahAprabhu physically, but if one hears about Him through books like SrI Caitanya-caritAmRta and through the paramparA system of pure VaiSNavas, there is no difficulty in becoming a pure VaiSNava, free from mundane desires and personal motivations.

SrI Caitanya-caritAmRta Madhya-lIlA 17.51

http://vedabase.net/mm/15/en :

As with any bona fide medicine, one should take the nectarean potion of the holy name under the guidance of experts, in this case sages and the spiritual master. The Supreme Lord's names vary with His different pastimes and relationships with His pure devotees. He appeared as the son of Mother YazodA and also as the son of Mother DevakI, and therefore He is named DevakI-nandana and YazodA-nandana. One should receive the Lord's authorized names from the spiritual master in disciplic succession.

http://vedabase.net/sb/11/2/46/en

.

D B Cooper Jr · April 20, 2006

Can you get all that from reading Prabhupada's books. I read his books and recognize his greatness although I don't follow perfectly I am way better than I used to be. Mostly scared of devotee association because I have read about all sorts of horror stories in regards to Iskcon but eventually I realize I am going to have to abandon the association of a lot of the karmis I live around. I really like reading Srimad Bhagavatam, absolutely amazing book, but I have no desire to preach it to anyone, in fact I can't think of anything that would be worse than that. I don't know if this means I am going to burn in a karmic hell for many lifetimes, I would definetly prefer not to.

Sri Namamrita:

The great seventeenth-century VaiSNava poet Narottama dAsa ThAkura writes, golokera prema-dhana, hari-nAma-saGkIrtana: the transcendental sound of the holy name of the Lord has its origin in the spiritual world.

Being the sound incarnation of the Lord, therefore, the holy name is not an ordinary material sound; it is divine, transcendental. But the divine nature of the holy name remains forever a mystery to those whose approach is merely empiric or intellectual. In discussing the theology of the holy name with an assembly of scholars, SrIla HaridAsa ThAkura, the great teacher of the name, asserted, "One cannot understand the glories of the holy name merely by logic and argument." The holy name is understood and experienced only by those who have renounced all conceit and pretension and directly embraced the process of chanting with humility, faith, and devotion. As sound transmitted from afar can be heard when received by an appropriate electronic device, so transcendent, spiritual sound can be properly heard and assimilated by one equipped with the proper means to receive it: bhagavat-prema, love of God.

CC Antya 1.101:
<CENTER>kRSNa-nAmera mahimA zAstra-sAdhu-mukhe jAni

nAmera mAdhurI aiche kAhAG nAhi zuni

</CENTER>

kRSNa-nAmera mahimA--the glories of the holy name of Lord KRSNa; zAstra--of the revealed scriptures; sAdhu--of the devotees; mukhe--in the mouth; jAni--we can understand; nAmera mAdhurI--the sweetness of the holy name; aiche--in that way; kAhAG--anywhere else; nAhi zuni--we do not hear.

One has to learn about the beauty and transcendental position of the holy name of the Lord by hearing the revealed scriptures from the mouths of devotees. Nowhere else can we hear of the sweetness of the Lord's holy name.

PURPORT

It is said in the Padma PurANa, ataH zrI-kRSNa-nAmAdi na bhaved grAhyam indriyaiH [bRS. 1.2.234]. Chanting and hearing of the transcendental holy name of the Lord cannot be performed by the ordinary senses. The transcendental vibration of the Lord's holy name is completely spiritual. Thus it must be received from spiritual sources and must be chanted after having been heard from a spiritual master. One who hears the chanting of the Hare KRSNa mantra must receive it from the spiritual master by aural reception. SrIla SanAtana GosvAmI has forbidden us to hear the holy name of KRSNa chanted by non-VaiSNavas, such as professional actors and singers, for it will have no effect. It is like milk touched by the lips of a serpent, as stated in the Padma PurANa:

avaiSNava-mukhodgIrNaM pUtaM hari-kathAmRtam

zravaNaM naiva kartavyaM sarpocchiSTaM yathA payaH

As far as possible, therefore, the devotees in the KRSNa consciousness movement gather to chant the holy name of KRSNa in public so that both the chanters and the listeners may benefit.

SB 5.13.9:
<CENTER>kvacin nigIrNo 'jagarAhinA jano

nAvaiti kiJcid vipine 'paviddhaH

daSTaH sma zete kva ca danda-zUkair

andho 'ndha-kUpe patitas tamisre

</CENTER>

kvacit--sometimes; nigIrNaH--being swallowed; ajagara-ahinA--by the great snake known as the python; janaH--the conditioned soul; na--not; avaiti--understands; kiJcit--anything; vipine--in the forest; apaviddhaH--pierced by arrows of suffering; daSTaH--being bitten; sma--indeed; zete--lies down; kva ca--sometimes; danda-zUkaiH--by other kinds of snakes; andhaH--blind; andha-kUpe--in a blind well; patitaH--fallen; tamisre--in a hellish condition of life.

The conditioned soul in the material forest is sometimes swallowed by a python or crushed. At such a time he is left lying in the forest like a dead person, devoid of consciousness and knowledge. Sometimes other poisonous snakes bite him. Being blind to his consciousness, he falls down into a dark well of hellish life with no hope of being rescued.

PURPORT

When one becomes unconscious due to being bitten by a snake, one cannot understand what is taking place outside the body. This unconscious condition is the condition of deep sleep. Similarly, the conditioned soul is actually sleeping on the lap of the illusory energy. Bhaktivinoda ThAkura has sung, kota nidrA yAo mAyA-pizAcIra kole: "O living entity, how long will you sleep in this condition on the lap of the illusory energy?" People do not understand that they are actually sleeping in this material world, being devoid of knowledge of spiritual life. Caitanya MahAprabhu therefore says:

enechi auSadhi mAyA nAzibAra lAgi'

hari-nAma-mahA-mantra lao tumi mAgi'

"I have brought medicine to awaken every living being from perpetual sleep. Please receive the holy name of the Lord, the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra, and awaken." The KaTha UpaniSad (1.3.14) also says, uttiSTha jAgrata prApya varAn nibodhata: "O living entity, you are sleeping in this material world. Please get up and take advantage of your human form of life." The sleeping condition means loss of all knowledge. In Bhagavad-gItA (2.69) it is also said, yA nizA sarva-bhUtAnAM tasyAM jAgarti saMyamI: "What is night for all beings is the time of awakening for the self-controlled." Even in the higher planets, everyone is under the spell of the illusory energy. No one is really interested in the real values of life. The sleeping condition, called kAla-sarpa (the time factor), keeps the conditioned soul in a state of ignorance, and therefore pure consciousness is lost. In the forest there are many blind wells, and if one falls down in one there is no chance of being rescued. In a state of sleep, one remains perpetually bitten by some animals, especially snakes.

Sri Namamrita:
One should receive the holy name from spiritual authorities:

[sukadeva GosvAmI to King ParIkSit]: O King, constant chanting of the holy name of the Lord after the ways of the great authorities is the doubtless and fearless way of success for all, including those who are free from all material desires, those who are desirous of all material enjoyment, and also those who are self-satisfied by dint of transcendental knowledge.

Here it is mentioned that one should constantly chant the holy name of the Lord after hearing it from authorities. This means that hearing from the authorities is the first essential.

SrImad-BhAgavatam 2.1.11

The transcendental sound must be received through a representative of the disciplic succession:
Communion with the Lord by transmission of the transcendental sound is nondifferent from the whole spirit Lord SrI KRSNa. It is a completely perfect method for approaching the Lord.… There is no bar for chanting this transcendental sound by anyone, provided it is received through NArada's representative, coming down by the chain of disciplic succession, or the paramparA system.

SrImad-BhAgavatam 1.5.39

If not received through the chain of disciplic succession, the holy name does not act:
One may receive a published mantra anywhere, but unless it is accepted through the chain of disciplic succession, the mantra does not act. It is said by authoritative sources that any mantra chanted without having been received from the disciplic succession has no efficacy.

SrImad-BhAgavatam 4.8.53

The disciple receives the authority to chant the holy name from the spiritual master:
[Lord Caitanya to PrakAzAnanda SarasvatI]: "‘My dear child, continue dancing, chanting and performing saGkIrtana in association with devotees. Furthermore, go out and preach the value of chanting kRSNa-nAma, for by this process You will be able to deliver all fallen souls.' Saying this, My spiritual master taught Me one verse from SrImad-BhAgavatam. It is the essence of all the BhAgavatam's instructions; therefore he instructed Me this verse again and again. ‘When a person is actually advanced and takes pleasure in chanting the holy name of the Lord, who is very dear to him, he is agItAted and loudly chants the holy name. He also laughs, cries, becomes agItAted and chants just like a madman, not caring for outsiders.' I firmly believe in these words of My spiritual master, and therefore I always chant the holy name of the Lord, alone and in the association of devotees. That holy name of Lord KRSNa sometimes causes Me to chant and dance, and therefore I chant and dance. Please do not think that I intentionally do it. I do it automatically."

A person who cannot keep his faith in the words of his spiritual master but acts independently never receives the authority to chant the holy name of the Lord. It is said in the Vedas:

yasya deve parA bhaktir

yathA deve tathA gurau

tasyaite kathitA hy arthAH

prakAzante mahAtmanaH

[sU 6.23]

"Only unto those great souls who have implicit faith in both the Lord and the spiritual master are all the imports of Vedic knowledge automatically revealed."

This Vedic injunction is very important, and SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu supported it by His personal behavior. Believing in the words of His spiritual master, He introduced the saGkIrtana movement, just as the present KRSNa consciousness movement was started with belief in the words of our spiritual master. He wanted to preach, we believed in his words and tried somehow or other to fulfill them, and now this movement has become successful all over the world. Therefore faith in the words of the spiritual master and in the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the secret of success. SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu never disobeyed the orders of His spiritual master and stopped propagating the saGkIrtana movement.…

It is to be understood that when SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu chanted and danced, He did so by the influence of the pleasure potency of the spiritual world. SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu never considered the holy name of the Lord to be a material vibration, nor does any pure devotee mistake the chanting of the Hare KRSNa mantra to be a material musical manifestation. Lord Caitanya never tried to be the master of the holy name; rather He taught us how to be servants of the holy name. If one chants the holy name of the Lord just to make a show, not knowing the secret of success, he may increase his bile secretion, but he will never attain perfection in chanting the holy name. SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu presented himself in this way: "I am a great fool and do not have knowledge of right and wrong. In order to understand the real meaning of VedAnta-sUtra, I never followed the explanation of the SaGkara-sampradAya or MAyAvAdI sannyAsIs. I'm very much afraid of the illogical arguments of the MAyAvAdI philosophers. Therefore I think I have no authority regarding their explanations of VedAnta-sUtra. I firmly believe that simply chanting the holy name of the Lord can remove all misconceptions of the material world. I believe that simply by chanting the holy name of the Lord one can attain the shelter of the lotus feet of the Lord. In this age of quarrel and disagreement, the chanting of the holy names is the only way to liberation from the material clutches.

"By chanting the holy name," Lord Caitanya continued, "I become almost mad. However, after inquiring from My spiritual master I have come to the conclusion that instead of striving for achievement in the four principles of religiosity (dharma), economic development (artha), sense gratification (kAma) and liberation (mokSa), it is better if somehow or other one develops transcendental love of Godhead. That is the greatest success in life. One who has attained love of Godhead chants and dances by his nature, not caring for the public." This stage of life is known as bhAgavata-jIvana, or the life of a devotee."

SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu continued, "I never chanted and danced to make an artificial show. I dance and chant because I firmly believe in the words of My spiritual master. Although the MAyAvAdI philosophers do not like this chanting and dancing, I nevertheless perform it on the strength of his words. Therefore it is to be concluded that I deserve very little credit for these activities of chanting and dancing, for they are being done automatically by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

SrI Caitanya-caritAmRta Adi-lIlA 7.92–96

The holy name should be received from, and chanted under the direction of, the bona fide spiritual master:
[The transcendental sound representation] should be received from the transparent agency of the bona fide spiritual master, and the chanting may be practiced by the direction of the spiritual master. That will gradually lead us nearer to the Lord. This method of worship is recommended in the pAJcarAtrika system, which is both recognized and authorized.

SrImad-BhAgavatam 1.5.38

One can understand the glories of the holy name by the mercy of the spiritual master:
The holy name and the Lord are identical. One who is completely free from the clutches of mAyA can understand this fact. This knowledge, which is achieved by the mercy of the spiritual master, places one on the supreme transcendental platform. SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu presented Himself as a fool because prior to accepting the shelter of a spiritual master He could not understand that simply by chanting one can be relieved from all material conditions. But as soon as He became a faithful servant of His spiritual master and followed his instructions, He very easily saw the path of liberation.

SrI Caitanya-caritAmRta Adi-lIlA 7.73

The spiritual master delivers the disciple from mAyA by initiating him into the chanting of the holy name:
It is the spiritual master who delivers the disciple from the clutches of mAyA by initiating him into the chanting of the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra. In this way a sleeping human being can revive his consciousness by chanting Hare KRSNa, Hare KRSNa, KRSNa KRSNa, Hare Hare/ Hare RAma, Hare RAma, RAma RAma, Hare Hare. In other words, the spiritual master awakens the sleeping living entity to his original consciousness so that he can worship Lord ViSNu. This is the purpose of dIkSA, or initiation. Initiation means receiving the pure knowledge of spiritual consciousness.

SrI Caitanya-caritAmRta Madhya-lIlA 9.61

One must receive the mahA-mantra from a guru, who makes it more powerful:
[Lord Siva to the sons of King PrAcInabarhi]: Now I shall chant one mantra which is not only transcendental, pure and auspicious, but is the best prayer for anyone who is aspiring to attain the ultimate goal of life. When I chant this mantra, please hear it carefully and attentively.

Lord Siva voluntarily came to bless the sons of the King as well as do something beneficial for them. He personally chanted the mantra so that the mantra would be more powerful, and he advised that the mantra be chanted by the King's sons (rAja-putras). When a mantra is chanted by a great devotee, the mantra becomes more powerful. Although the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra is powerful in itself, a disciple upon initiation receives the mantra from his spiritual master, for when the mantra is chanted by the spiritual master, it becomes more powerful. Lord Siva advised the sons of the King to hear him attentively, for inattentive hearing is offensive.

SrImad-BhAgavatam 4.24.31–32

Being preserved and transmitted through disciplic succession, the holy names of Lord KRSNa and Lord Caitanya have as much potency now as during the physical appearance of Lord Caitanya:
Although Sri Caitanya MahAprabhu did not manifest His natural ecstatic love, everyone became a pure devotee simply by seeing and hearing Him.

Srila RUpa GosvAmI has described SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu as mahA-vadAnya-avatAra, the most munificent incarnation. Although SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu is not physically present now, simply by chanting His holy name (zrI-kRSNa-caitanya prabhu nityAnanda zrI-advaita gadAdhara zrIvAsAdi-gaura-bhakta-vRnda) people throughout the world are becoming devotees. This is due to the ecstatic chanting of the holy name of the Lord. It is said that a pure devotee can see the Lord every moment, and because of this he is empowered by the Lord. This is confirmed in Brahma-saMhitA: premAJjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaH sadaiva hRdayeSu vilokayanti [bs. 5.38]. SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu appeared five hundred years ago, but it cannot be said that now the potency of the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra is less powerful than it was in His presence. By hearing SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu through the paramparA system, one can be purified. Therefore in this verse it is said: tathApi tAGra darzana-zravaNa-prabhAve. It is not that everyone is able to see KRSNa or SrI KRSNa Caitanya MahAprabhu physically, but if one hears about Him through books like SrI Caitanya-caritAmRta and through the paramparA system of pure VaiSNavas, there is no difficulty in becoming a pure VaiSNava, free from mundane desires and personal motivations.

SrI Caitanya-caritAmRta Madhya-lIlA 17.51

http://vedabase.net/mm/15/en :
As with any bona fide medicine, one should take the nectarean potion of the holy name under the guidance of experts, in this case sages and the spiritual master. The Supreme Lord's names vary with His different pastimes and relationships with His pure devotees. He appeared as the son of Mother YazodA and also as the son of Mother DevakI, and therefore He is named DevakI-nandana and YazodA-nandana. One should receive the Lord's authorized names from the spiritual master in disciplic succession.

http://vedabase.net/sb/11/2/46/en

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theist · April 21, 2006

1 February, 1969

69-02-01

My Dear Larry Snyder, Mark Perlman and John Curran,

Please accept my blessings. I thank you very much for your very nice letter dated January 23, 1969, and I have read the contents with great satisfaction. Your eagerness to spread the Krishna Consciousness movement in that party of the country is certainly dictated by Krishna, Who is situated within your heart. There are innumerable living entities wandering within the universe in different forms of life and conditions in different planetary systems. Out of many, many of such conditioned souls, only one will come into contact with a bona fide Spiritual Master by the Grace of Krishna. Krishna can understand from within the sincerity of purpose of a particular living entity, and He gives direction to such sincere devotee to the path of realizing Krishna Consciousness. So you have already achieved to this stage of life. Please do not miss the opportunity. Although you are not formally initiated, you have associated with our devotees in the New York temple, and it has acted. The seed is already there in you and it has to be helped to grow and fructify. The best means of watering this seed of Krishna Consciousness is to chant and hear Hare Krishna. Now you have got our book, Bhagavad-gita As It Is, and also you have available our regular publication, Back To Godhead. In the latest issue there is an article you should read called the Isopanisad. So with these literatures you can immediately start a center wherever it is possible for you. I think that Florida will be a very nice place for this, and I have always had a great desire to open a center there.

So my advise to you is that you make a small center immediately, and, if possible, get some musical instruments from New York. Brahmananda will supply you with a mrdanga and a few pairs of cymbals. Simply you have to sit down together as you have seen done in New York. Just begin chanting Hare Krishna in the accompaniment of a beating drum and the playing of cymbals. There is no necessity of any other instrument at present. The chanting is very simple; Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. So in this way for 15-20 minutes you chant, and then read from our Bhagavad-gita. There is explanation there as far as possible to convince everyone what is the importance of Krishna Consciousness. So 15 minutes of chanting and dancing, and 1/2 hour of reading from text of Bhagavad-gita, then questions and answers, and at last chanting again of Hare Krishna. In this way you can begin, and there will be no difficulty. Gradually, as you get even more interested in this procedure,

[page MISSING]

---------

So here we see that these three devotees who have never been formally intiated have been instructed to go from New York to Florida and open a center and spread the holy name. I find that interesting. So from this it is obvious the holy name is not dependent on some ceremony for transmission or in this case even the personal awareness of the spiritual master. It reached these boys through the spiritual masters disciples and in that way they were initiated into the Hare Krsna mantra. And now they were empowered to spread it to others. Hmmm....?

What about DB Coopers having taken the name from Srila Prabhupada's books? Is this also not intiation into the chanting of the Hare Krsna mantra?

bija · April 21, 2006

I guess it would be fair to say the Holy Name is unlimited, and so is Srila Prabhupada's mercy. Wonderful transcendental Krsna Naam, wonderful magnanimous Srila Prabhupada. What divine realisations of Naam he must have had. How intense must have been his desires to see Krsna Naam cover the whole earth. Surely the desires of Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada were his life and soul.

theist · April 21, 2006

Can one receive the Holy Name from the books of a Vaisnava?

bija · April 21, 2006

Dear Theist,

I have not read anything that confirms your question. So I cannot answer. But over the months of reading this forum, and being graced by your openess, I have come to know a tiny bit about your approach to Krsna consciousness.

Because I cannot answer your question, I would like to share with you a little, how potent Srila Prabhupada's books are. I am somewhat hesitant to share my story over the net and do not know if it is the correct thing to do. But as I now use an anonymous name I am going to...please forgive me.

Back in the early nineties when my life was much more opulent than it is now I had the good fortune of taking a long journey. Backpacking. My first port of call was the america's. After spending some time travelling Mexico I made my way to California, San Diego. When I was in San Diego, oneday I saw a large group of Hare Krsna's chanting in a park. I had seen them in Australia before. Being very intrigued I approached them. And moved into the temple with them for about 3 or 4 days. These few days were very intense and made a strong impression on me. I was invited by the temple president to stay, but due to being young and full of material desires and wanting to travel more I left. Before I left I was given a set of Japa beads and taught the Hare Krsna Mahamantra. I chanted for several weeks on and off and eventually left it all aside.

Over the next two years I recieved a couple of Prabhupada's small books by good fortune. After reading them somewhat I also left them aside. But I do recall I was captured by a term in them, "Original Personality of Godhead."

Five months later I was involved in an unfortunate incident/accident and I encountered a classic near death experience. You know, the tunnel of light and all that. As I understand now, it involved being situated in my subtle body. I saw several things in this experience which are personal. But I will share one thing to show how potent these books are.

When I got to the end of the tunnel I cried out to God, "who are you?"

In that instance I heard a voice; the most beautiful resounding voice that I had ever heard, filled me with such calm and peace like I had never felt before and never felt since.

The response I recieved was one word, "Original." But the amazing thing was this most beautiful voice came distinctly from outside of me, and at the same time being situated within me, penetrated me to the core of my being.

Over the years of reading more of Srila Prabhupada's books I have gradually dicovered more and more of what this personal NDE means to me.

And the experience was the initial gradual turning point away from a foolish life to a journey back home.

So to answer your question, I have no doubt that a very wonderful seed can be planted in the heart from these very beautifully potent books. But I also would say that by taking shelter of a spiritual master and receiving the Name this potent seed will blossom even more.

If this post has offended anyone or is inappropriate to discuss in any way please forgive me. I will probably regret pressing the "submit reply" button now but I am going to anyway.

your servant....bija.

ps. there is one other thing I would like to say which is relevant to the potency of Srila Prabhupada's books. I was brought up as a practicing Roman Catholic, went through eleven years of Catholic education. Still love the empowered incarnation Jesus very much and respect the Church. But after such short, brief encounters with Krsna consciousness and Prabhupada's books before I experienced the NDE; the books made the strongest impression of who God is in my consciousness. Very potent books obviously written by a very special soul.

D B Cooper Jr · April 22, 2006

Hare Krishna bija,

Yours is a great story and nothing offensive about that at all.

Dear Theist,

I have not read anything that confirms your question. So I cannot answer. But over the months of reading this forum, and being graced by your openess, I have come to know a tiny bit about your approach to Krsna consciousness.

Because I cannot answer your question, I would like to share with you a little, how potent Srila Prabhupada's books are. I am somewhat hesitant to share my story over the net and do not know if it is the correct thing to do. But as I now use an anonymous name I am going to...please forgive me.

Back in the early nineties when my life was much more opulent than it is now I had the good fortune of taking a long journey. Backpacking. My first port of call was the america's. After spending some time travelling Mexico I made my way to California, San Diego. When I was in San Diego, oneday I saw a large group of Hare Krsna's chanting in a park. I had seen them in Australia before. Being very intrigued I approached them. And moved into the temple with them for about 3 or 4 days. These few days were very intense and made a strong impression on me. I was invited by the temple president to stay, but due to being young and full of material desires and wanting to travel more I left. Before I left I was given a set of Japa beads and taught the Hare Krsna Mahamantra. I chanted for several weeks on and off and eventually left it all aside.

Over the next two years I recieved a couple of Prabhupada's small books by good fortune. After reading them somewhat I also left them aside. But I do recall I was captured by a term in them, "Original Personality of Godhead."

Five months later I was involved in an unfortunate incident/accident and I encountered a classic near death experience. You know, the tunnel of light and all that. As I understand now, it involved being situated in my subtle body. I saw several things in this experience which are personal. But I will share one thing to show how potent these books are.

When I got to the end of the tunnel I cried out to God, "who are you?"

In that instance I heard a voice; the most beautiful resounding voice that I had ever heard, filled me with such calm and peace like I had never felt before and never felt since.

The response I recieved was one word, "Original." But the amazing thing was this most beautiful voice came distinctly from outside of me, and at the same time being situated within me, penetrated me to the core of my being.

Over the years of reading more of Srila Prabhupada's books I have gradually dicovered more and more of what this personal NDE means to me.

And the experience was the initial gradual turning point away from a foolish life to a journey back home.

So to answer your question, I have no doubt that a very wonderful seed can be planted in the heart from these very beautifully potent books. But I also would say that by taking shelter of a spiritual master and receiving the Name this potent seed will blossom even more.

If this post has offended anyone or is inappropriate to discuss in any way please forgive me. I will probably regret pressing the "submit reply" button now but I am going to anyway.

your servant....bija.

ps. there is one other thing I would like to say which is relevant to the potency of Srila Prabhupada's books. I was brought up as a practicing Roman Catholic, went through eleven years of Catholic education. Still love the empowered incarnation Jesus very much and respect the Church. But after such short, brief encounters with Krsna consciousness and Prabhupada's books before I experienced the NDE; the books made the strongest impression of who God is in my consciousness. Very potent books obviously written by a very special soul.

bija · April 22, 2006

Thanks DB,

I feel some things maybe should not be discussed. But at the same time I want to express that God is real and Srila Prabhupada is a very special spiritual teacher. And that a spiritual seed can definately be planted in the heart upon reading these special books. Thank you for your warmth and openess.

bija · April 22, 2006

Can one recieve the Holy Name from the books of a Vaisnava? quote theist

The following question and answer may be of some benefit in answering your question.

I have one question. What is the value if someone chants the Holy Name and he or she is not initiated (diksa)? Some devotees say that only benefit of such chanting is preparation for diksa, and that real connection and chanting is not possible if one does not receive mantra diksa? For example, I am reading vaisnava books and chanting Holy Names, associate with devotees and following regulative principles for more then decade. My wife is also devotee and we are practicing chanting and reading together, but we are not initiated. By Gauranga's mercy I preached to many devotees in this area and some of them become initiated within

ISKCON, some in other Gaudiya organisations. I see that this divine process is eternal activity, but some devotees say what are you

waiting - you must hurry, you never know how long you will live and without diksa there is no real connection with Lord! I was (and still am) in contact with several spiritual masters and advanced devotees and getting inspiration (siksa) from them. I was never interested in "institutional" concensess but in finding a devotee, in whatever institution or place he may belong. Could you please give me some advice? Thank you very much.

Answer:

Thankyou for your nice inquiry and for helping many souls to take up Naam bhajan. Please read fully the link below which answers your question and then let me know if you have any further questions:

http://vedabase.net/cc/madhya/15/108/en1

Question:

Dear Maharaja, thank you for your answer. I will study material and ask you additional questions about this topic if necessary. Thank you! Gaurapremanande haribol!

Question:

Dear Maharaja, could you please clarify to me the next statements that seem to be contradictory to me.

1. From one side:

“Unless one is initiated by a bona-fide Vaishnava spiritual master in a bonafide and authentic Vaishnava disciplic succession, the Mantra one might have received is without any effect.” from Padma Purana

So it is clearly stated that “Unless one is initiated by a bona-fide Vaishnava spiritual master… the Mantra one might have received is without any effect.”

2.From other side:

"O best of the brahmanas, even without initiation, preliminary purification or acceptance of the renounced order, one can attain perfection in devotional service simply by chanting the Lord's holy name."

Ramarcana-candrika

So it is clearly stated that ” even without initiation… one can attain perfection in devotional service simply by chanting the Lord's holy name ”

It is a little bit confusing – “without initiation mantra is without any effect” and ”even without initiation simply by chanting one can attain perfection”

So, I am humbly asking, could you please clarify this statements of sastra.

Answer:

To answer your question, it is necessary to analyse the Ramarcana-candrika verse:

vinaiva diksham viprendra purascaryam vinaiva hi

vinaiva nyasa-vidhina japa-matrena siddhi-da

In this verse it is not specifically mentioned perfection in terms of attaining pure love for the Lord. japa-matrena siddhi da means perfection in the process of chanting but it may not involve the supreme causeless mercy of the Lord upon us in terms of pure love of God which is the highest effect of chanting the Holy Name Mantras.

The Holy Names will surely benefit and deliver the souls from material bondage who simply vibrate Them with their tongue even without any initiation or external purification. But to attain pure love, which is the goal of chanting, one should receive the Holy Names from the Guru in the normal case. That is what the Padma Purana verse is taking about. Ofcourse

sometimes the chanter may be very very much advanced from his or her previous lives and may have accepted Guru in the previous lives, then he or she may attain pure love simply by the mercy of the Holy Names. But this is very very rarely seen even among the eternal associates of the Lord who always accept Diksha from a living spiritual master to set an example for

all souls.

The word "nishphala" in the Padma Purana verses means that the though the Holy Names may grant liberation to the chanter but generally to attain pure love of God by chanting the Name one should accept initiation in the Holy Names from a Vaishnava Guru from any of the four sampradayas, ideally a Gaudiya Vaishnava Guru.

In other words, the chanting of Hare Krishna is so powerful that it does not depend on initiation to deliver the soul, but if the soul wants to go higher than liberation and enter into the spiritual world and quickly attain pure love of God without a doubt, then the process of initiation is mandatory as it speedens up this process of attaining prema.

The tiny seed of a banyan tree contains the form of a huge, full-grown tree. Placing the seed directly into the ground, however, may not produce a tree. But if a sparrow eats the seed and passes it on the ground with its stool, then a majestic banyan tree will certainly grow forth. The banyan seed must be processed in this way to give sureshot results. Similarly, if one begins chanting the Holy Name mantras after hearing or reading about Them, They will deliver him or her from all material miseries but the highest benefit may not be there. But if one receives the Name Mantras by hearing from the Guru through the process of initiation, then those Holy Names which are coated with the Guru's love, realizations, and relationship with the Lord will produce genuine and pure love for the Supreme Lord in the

heart of the sincere disciple if the disciple patiently chants them daily with devotion and feeling.

I have made some small editing to make this QA more readable, but have not altered the content. If there are any mistakes in the editing they are mine.

theist · April 22, 2006

Thanks for sharing the NDE with us. Certainly the Lord has His ways of confirming the right path for us.

So to answer your question, I have no doubt that a very wonderful seed can be planted in the heart from these very beautifully potent books. But I also would say that by taking shelter of a spiritual master and receiving the Name this potent seed will blossom even more.

OK this gets into the area of where I was wanting to go with this. You make a distinction that I do not make.

I do not make a distinction between hearing the written instruction of Srila Prabhupada in his books to chant Hare Krsna and following that instruction from the "taking shelter of a spiritual master and receiving the Name" from him. This is a very important point I believe.

What does it mean to take shelter of a spiritual master if it is not to follow his instructions? That IS taking shelter of him. Jagat Guru is giving the Name to the world. There is no thought of any sincere soul being rejected by him or any need to become purified before one receives the Name from him. The Name is already being offered by the Devotee equally to all but only those that take up his instructions to chant it can really receive it.

This is obvious and extremely simple if taken directly without speculation.

The essential thing is that you receive the Name from the Devotee which means it comes with the Vaisnava understanding and realizations vs. say some Mayavadi playing bhakta as a means to absorb himself in Krsna's aura. Mayavadi's are not chanting Krsna's Name. It is a reflection only. From it one can get liberation into the Brahman which is unthinkable to the Vaisnava.

gHari has given ample proof of this. So when I say Name of Krsna please know that I include only that which comes from the Vaisnava to be the full Name.

This goes to my view on initiation. The word can be seen from different angles. As in the start of something or rebirth for our purposes. I view this rebirth as a process that is still unfolding for me and most others, irrespective of any formal ceremony they may have undergone.

Similar to a human birth. Our birth certificates say we were born at a specific time. Mine was 5:10 am. But that is misleading the whole birthing process may have taken several hours with some of that time being half in and half out of the birth canal.

So this is how I view myself now spiritually. I am in the process of being reborn. I have come to call this whole process 'initiation'. Irregardless of any and all other ways this word is used this is the one that has meaning for me.

The more I learn to take the spiritual masters instructions as my life and soul the farther along the rebirth process I will be, until finally on some far distant day I will be completely reborn.

Now that rebirthing process also means taking to the Vaisnava conclusion that I am the eternal servant of the Lord. An understanding that we can only get by associating with Vaisnavas. Reading/hearing Srila Prabhupada's teaching is to assocuate with him.

So to answer my own question simply, Yes I believe one can receive the Name of Krsna through reading Prabhupada's books.

Also I have noted that where mantra is referred to is not always indicating the Maha-mantra composed of simply the Lord's Holy Names. That should be considered.

Hare Krsna

bija · April 22, 2006

OK this gets into the area of where I was wanting to go with this. You make a distinction that I do not make.quote by theist

I had a feeling this might be where you were leading to. And it is somewhere which I am not qualified to enter. As the Lord is leading me to spiritual awakening, I know he is leading you also. And I fully honor that.

I appreciate your understanding of what 'initiation' means to you. I had similar realisations some years ago. Some born again friends of mine, who had accepted the Lord and had been baptised would often ask the question, "are you born again?". So I would ask them, "are you born again?"

They would reply, "oh yes I am definately born again."

My heartfelt response to them was always,"It is an ongoing process for me, each day I am being continually born again."

So it is very nice to hear your realisations Theist.

I hope you can appreciate my heart in not wanting to enter philosophical debate whether formal initiation is necessary or not. I just am not that type of person. I am not a part of any institution, or anything like that. And practice yoga here basically by myself. By some good fortune when my spiritual life was crumbling and falling apart and my spiritual association was almost zero, somehow I developed a relationship and friendship through the internet with a very kind and loving Spiritual Master. Who now looks after me and cares for me. I have not recieved diksa into the Mahamantra as yet. But have been given diksa into other mantra/names of Krsna that he felt I was qualified for. God knows if I had not recieved the mercy and association of my spiritual Father where I would be today( I could share more, but a public forum is not the place).

peace to you,

bija.

ps. I only sourced the long QA to serve you, not to preach to you. Your love for Srila Prabhupada is very special. Blessings to you.

gHari · April 22, 2006

bija, if you have time, I would like to hear more about the stories of these books getting to you..

bija · April 22, 2006

bija, if you have time, I would like to hear more about the stories of these books getting to you..

Two times I received a small book. It is about twelve years ago now, so my memory is not perfect. While I stayed in the San Diego temple there was a couple of devotees in their early twenties who I thought were quite nice. Last I heard one of them had left the temple. I recall him being a very nice person.

The other devotee I came across again about twelve months later. I had been travelling and somehow I flew back to San Francisco and was working my way down to southern Mexico. I made my way to San Diego/Tijuana and coming back from Tijuana one day two devotees were distributing books. One of them was the other devotee who I admired from the temple.

He was surprised to see me and I was glad to see him. I don't know why it is gHari, but even at that stage of my life, when I was "out there" I had alot of time for devotees. I took a book from him and that was that. I did not see that devotee until around six years later.

At that time I was hanging out with a couple of other travellers and one of them said, "why did you talk to them for and take a book. They are a cult." Or something like that. So I was a bit embarrased so later on I put the book on a public seat and prayed that someone who may need it may find it there. It was such a nice experience to see this devotee again. And in some way in my heart I felt a real connection.

About twelve months after this I was free floating over in Perth, Western Australia. At that time I had been living out of a backpack for about two and a half years. And little did I know it but Krsna was about to bring about a change in my life, that would impact my life for many years. Basically everything, health, finance etc was just stripped away.

Around this time I started visiting a Food for Life and would dream in a naive way of dropping out and finding peace renouncing the world. I approached a devotee at the Food for Life one day and asked about living in a temple. I got a fairly negative response, which I can laugh about now. I was a fairly shady looking long hair by this stage. So I just picked up one of the books off one of the tables and read it while I ate my meal. I took it with me and was intrigued by the concept in it of an "Original Personality of Godhead." My spiritual insights at the time were definately not awakened much as I was situated in the mode of ignorance fairly nicely.

I met that devotee from San Diego one more time in 1999. By that stage he was travelling the world promoting books in Iskcon. By that stage my wrestle with material life was at its peak. But that's another story.

To be honest I am not so comfortable sharing so much in this internet world. But what the heck. If someone can get something out of my foolishness maybe it was all worth it. I am pretty much trying to be attached to Nityananda and Gauranga these days; the Friends of the most fallen. The Magnanimous kali yuga Avatars and the Divine Lords of my only shelter.

gHari · April 22, 2006

Thank you, bija. You seem to have followed the path of renunciation to perfection, shaking off all the molds and hype, stripping it down to essentials, down to the soul, where it all takes place. The magic of sankirtana, that really took me back to my book receiving experiences. So many were magic, one in a million possibilities like yours.

The first was only a couple of days after I decided to take Ram Das's advice and 'hang out' with the Bhagavad-gita. Suddenly outside the George Harrison concert in Toronto, Krsna Katha das approached me with Srila Prabhupada's glorious Bhagavad-gita. "I'd like to give you this book", he said. Shazam.

Somehow a year later I found myself in the same hotel that was sponsoring a Psychic fair. "This could be interesting". Well there was Krsna Katha das again. And this time he had Sri Isopanisad for me. Another jump-start on the road to Krsna.

As a computer salesman I was always flying through O'Hara to get to Minneapolis. Once on the way to a San Diego sales awards party, I received the first Canto of the Srimad-Bhagavatam. I was effectively on holiday for a few days and had time to read. Even on the plane, my life changed as I read "Is there no fruit on the trees? Is there no water in the rivers? Is there no used cloth at the side of the road?" Rather than party hearty with the thousand other salesmen mudha, I was captivated by the book which would not leave my hands. Several months later I abandoned the fast-paced wheeler-dealer mover-n-shaker super-salesman role, and retired into a farm house with the Gita. There alone with the Gita and a dozen cows I travelled to the edge of the universe ... then stepped off, never to return.

But before the farm, still travelling as a salesman there seemed to always be another Bhagavatam at O'Hara for me. I quite looked forward to the next installment.

During that same period, while travelling to see a girlfriend in Florida, connecting planes in the Atlanta airport, I has some spare time so I decided to remember Supersoul, and found myself taking an escalator down for no reason. At the bottom was another devotee with the first Adi Lila of the Sri Caitanya-cartamrita. I said I wasn't ready since I hadn't even finished the Bhagavatams, but he said that Lord Caitanya's mercy would allow me to make the jump. It is still perhaps my favorite book, and certainly the most physically powerful I've ever known.

My most recent book was a Christmas gift, a mini Gita from my son who met a devotee downtown in Toronto after deciding to get me what I would really appreciate --- a Krsna book. Perhaps his string of sankirtana mercies has started too. And I can relax and go back to Godhead.

They say that Krsna sends His representative when we need him. And Prabhupada was always there for me. Always ready to take me to the next level.

How fortunte we are to have such a kind and powerful benefactor.

bija · April 22, 2006

Thanks for sharing some of your journey. It is really very interesting.

The magic of sankirtana, that really took me back to my book receiving experiences. quote by gHari

The perfect timings on a spiritual journey are wonderful. The coincidences involved can be nothing but the active moving of God in this material world.

I have often thought about the devotees who take it as their service to distribute books. I am sure over the years some of them would have had the thoughts,"Is it really worth it, are they reading them, etc. etc."

Only if we could get a glimpse of the many life changing experiences great or small, and the many wonderful stories involved. It would make a good BBT book.

What a great soul is He who wrote these books. Being unnattached to the results he obviously offered the results to His Srila Prabhupada. And Krsna was well pleased.

brihat-mrdanga ki jaya!

theist · April 22, 2006

ps. I only sourced the long QA to serve you, not to preach to you.

Oh I didn't take it that you were preaching or trying to convert me to a particular vaisnava clan. Nothing like that.

I see what I consider to be a less than wholesome trend. Not new certainly but it seems to be more and more entrenched. All these different processes of qualifications are being placed before the fallen souls (us) before they are said to be ready to chant Hare Krsna. I think all such so-called qualifications are obstacles from maya.

The way I see it one only need hear the name from the proper source, that is of course the Devotee and of course take to the Vaisnava siddhanta that he speaks or writes.

This is essentialy the point I was hoping to bring out.

bija · April 22, 2006

Oh I didn't take it that you were preaching...

Jaya Theist, thank you.

If you have the time, could you please share a little more of what you mean by obstacles. I think I can understand a little of what you are saying when you refer to fallen souls(us). I relate to that. Considering kali's influence over time will increase more and more. The last thing we need is obstacles to hinder a jiva taking up naam-yoga. As time moves on, who will be qualified?

I am interested to know more of your observations.

In relation to my story I shared about going to the San Diego temple and being taught the Hare Krsna Mantra. After about a month or so I stopped chanting and left it all behind. Only if I had kept up the process, I would have been saved so much trouble.

I have thought about why I did not develop taste to maintain the process. One obvious reason was my material desires were very strong and also lack of association. I have reflected very deeply on this, and you know: I was never taught by the devotees about Lord Caitanya. Or even taught the Panca-Tattva mantra. I think here is the key.

I know why maybe, I was not taught about Lord Caitanya. I have often found the same obstacle in my own sharing efforts. "How will they ever believe me that this 16th century mystic was God; oh I better keep that part of the philosophy secret for a while."

But I have come to the conclusion that understanding His tattva is most essential. Only if I had received a drop of this nectar way back then.

Please refer to:http://vedabase.net/cc/adi/8/31/en

theist · April 23, 2006

I consider an obstacle to be any hoop that someone puts before a soul and telling him he must jump through it before he can chant the name of Krsna.

Many of these hoops appear to have more validity than others but I don't accept any as being necessary to complete before chanting the Hare Krsna mantra. The only necessity I can see is to receive it from the right source who will also impart the proper siddhanta along with it.

I don't even tell people that must chant the names of Krsna. Just any bonefide name of God in any language along with the understanding that God is great and we are small. I also say for myself I am most attracted to the Name Krsna. Simple, very simple.

The last thing we need is obstacles to hinder a jiva taking up naam-yoga. As time moves on, who will be qualified?

Yes but who is qualified now? I believe the mercy of the sankirtan movement should be emphasised. No one is qualified but yet it is open to all. To stay seriously on the path certainly requires discipline, doing certain things and refraining from doing others but that comes later as an adjunct to helping one stay steady in devotional practice not before. It is nonsensical to preach the four regulative principles to someone to begin with. The power to stick to those principles comes from chanting and associating with serious minded practioners not before that.

Hare Krsna

bija · April 23, 2006

I like where you are coming from in this post. You say the concept of mercy in the sankirtana movement should be emphasised. Absolutely.

As you express in your earlier post this spiritual life/awakening is a gradual process. There is no point in bombarding an inquisitive person with a heap of rules. It didn't work for me, and I couldn't maintain them either. I feel it is much better for these things to manifest spontaneously when ready. Then they will be maintained steadily and nicely.

Initially I was taught to chant 2000 Holy Names a day. Initially that wasn't totally easy but I did maintain it. Then over time, to make increments in the number when able with the assistance of an incrementation chart that was supplied. Slowly and steadily I followed the instruction. And maintained each increment when attained. I found this process worked for me and hope to continue it for years to come. It is a life time process. Also I was taught to chant before I was taught to follow the 4 regs. As my chanting increased over months the 4 regs just fell into place naturally. The desire to follow them grew in my heart.

Yes but who is qualified now? quote by theist

Good point. Very few I would presume. As you are aware Lord's Gauranga and Nityananda are mercy incarnations. So the very nature of this movement and philosophy is mercy. In fact Theist, I find your post right on the mark.

I don't even tell people that must chant the names of Krsna. Just any bonefide name of God in any language along with the understanding that God is great and we are small. I also say for myself I am most attracted to the Name Krsna. Simple, very simple.Quote by theist

This sounds good to me.

Prabhupada during a room conversation in August 14, 1971.

No. We are recommending "Chant the holy name of God." So if you have got the holy name of God you can chant that.

Srimad Bhagavatam Purport 1.5.16

...The expert devotees also can discover novel ways and means to convert the non-devotees in terms of particular time and circumstance. Devotional service is dynamic activity, and the expert devotees can find out competent means, to inject it into the dull brains of the materialistic population. Such transcendental activities of the devotees for the service of the Lord can bring a new order of life to the foolish society of materialistic men...

theist · April 23, 2006

Initially I was taught to chant 2000 Holy Names a day. Initially that wasn't totally easy but I did maintain it. Then over time, to make increments in the number when able with the assistance of an incrementation chart that was supplied. Slowly and steadily I followed the instruction. And maintained each increment when attained. I found this process worked for me and hope to continue it for years to come. It is a life time process. Also I was taught to chant before I was taught to follow the 4 regs. As my chanting increased over months the 4 regs just fell into place naturally. The desire to follow them grew in my heart.

Wonderful. It worked for you and that is no surprise. It is the process taught by Srila Prabhupada. But you had the desire to keep going. They both must be there.

Haribol

bija · April 24, 2006

I want to draw this conversation back to where you were wanting to take it.

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> So to answer your question, I have no doubt that a very wonderful seed can be planted in the heart from these very beautifully potent books. But I also would say that by taking shelter of a spiritual master and receiving the Name this potent seed will blossom even more.quote by bija

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

OK this gets into the area of where I was wanting to go with this. You make a distinction that I do not make.

I do not make a distinction between hearing the written instruction of Srila Prabhupada in his books to chant Hare Krsna and following that instruction from the "taking shelter of a spiritual master and receiving the Name" from him. This is a very important point I believe.

What does it mean to take shelter of a spiritual master if it is not to follow his instructions? That IS taking shelter of him. Jagat Guru is giving the Name to the world. There is no thought of any sincere soul being rejected by him or any need to become purified before one receives the Name from him. The Name is already being offered by the Devotee equally to all but only those that take up his instructions to chant it can really receive it.quote by theist

I have read the thread over again. Which I find beneficial for me, with this material mind;).

In one of your previous posts in this thread you posted a letter of Srila Prabhupada, here is the segment you highlighted:So you have already achieved to this stage of life. Please do not miss the opportunity. Although you are not formally initiated, you have associated with our devotees in the New York temple, and it has acted. The seed is already there in you and it has to be helped to grow and fructify. The best means of watering this seed of Krishna Consciousness is to chant and hear Hare Krishna.

Theist, I am interested to understand more the point you are trying to bring out, in regards to "receiving the holy name." It is a heart transaction isn't it, rather than some type of external formality?

April 24, 2006

For many years, Theist is sort of a little hero to me because we were similar in one way; we consider SP our guru, through his books. (As prescribed by SP in his books to everyone aspiring, I then even set a constant number of rounds everyday to chant on my japa, offered my food at my latar, and attended S Bhagavatam classes in the temple every weekend). I met a few gurus but no one really moved my heart except SP.

But last year, I met a great Vaishnava and just by his presence, he made me shed tears of joys (literally). I had only spoken with Him for a few seconds; he asked me if I liked the program? From thereon gradually a love for him developed in me. I wrote him an email and he answered through his secretary saying that he will help me like his most darling daughter and when we see each other he will give me formal initiation.

Only our heart can judge our sincerity and truthfulness. And I have faith that at this stage of my life it is the only right thing to do.

This thread, receiving the holy names from a proper source , has been following me for 2 days; made me think, really think.

I go back to the first principles. Mantra is a sound vibration of the holy names of Krishna. The Mahamantra being the most important.

I read somewhere that Srila Sanatan Goswami said that the nectar of the holy name is manifest only through the sense of speech.

So my questions are:

Can a bhakta ,who like most of us, is full of offences and anarthas

( unwanted desires), be able to extract the concentrated nectar of the holy names by reciting them by himself from a book, say?

Is there a difference in the shakti-potency of the mantra when it is conveyed by sound vibrations to the aspirant from the lips of an advanced/pure devotee than when the aspirant prays in his heart and receive the mantra in the image form from a book? Is the mercy potency also in the second method and will it yield the desired results?

Though Theist, with all respects, have shown SP’s letter confirming some aspects, in practice, SP conveyed the mantras to his initiated disciples through sound vibrations: by a tape recording, chanting on their japa malas or I believe by whispering the mantras in the ears of the disciples.

Of course, some of his disciples went wayward and some out of KC altogether but that maybe due to them dropping the mercy made available to them. But that is another story.

Our acharyas have laid down the path that we can take to progress in our spiritual quest in this yuga, and that includes some purificatory process. What could be the difficulty in not trying to take to it. Of course, I have my own answers based on my own experiences but those are personal.

Radha-Krishna

Myrla

Australia

bija · April 24, 2006

Thank you Myrla, for sharing your very special story.

You have brought to my awareness more how this thread is such a special subject so close to the heart. What I like to call from my own experience, heart transaction. And when I tread an area like this, dealing with a jiva's love for, Vaisnava, Guru, Spiritual Father, Srila Prabhupada, etc, I feel I need to tread ever so gently. It is "such" a very very special area. And to be totally real, considering my spiritual association is so limited where I live, a conversation I hope to be fully grateful for.

The question is how much to share on an internet forum? I take my succor that the forums name is Audarya Fellowship.

I actually came across this forum over two years ago. At that time I had not long met my soon to be spiritual guide. (in joining this current thread many of these memories have been coming back). Upon this meeting with him, I just knew who he was so strongly in my heart.

I actually did a websearch on his name in the beginning and the search led me to this forum. Due to his unique approach to siddhanta, and novel strategy to spread Krsna conciousness to the most fallen souls of kali yuga(an approach which initially attracted myself; who was perpetually lost at the time), his name has been spoken of not so nicely or kindly in certain circles; including this forum.

Why am I bringing up such a personal story? Only because I wish to impress that heart territory is sacred land. If one resides in this territory he/she is in a good place, a place where GaurangaKrishna can begin to work. Many thorns have blown in from outside of this sacred land in my own experience, and many times I have been greatly tested in my faith.

So I wish to honor Theist's sacred space and dealings with supersoul in the heart. Some of my, basic understandings and realisations, of the Krsna consciousness philosophy may differ, but one thing we all share in common is we are all making a heart transaction with beauty, sweetness and truth.

signed...life's greatest fool.

April 25, 2006

To Bija

In which part of Oz are you based? I and my family are from the Melbourne area.

I believe that where you find good association you should go for it. Afterall we come from the same line; we all are trying to be Vaishnava , in the real sense of the world.

If you happen to be in the Melb area and want to have some sat sanga with another person on the same quest, please contact me at 043 383 7568. I might even buy you lunch at the ISKCON restaurant in the city ! !

Radha-Krishna

Myrla

OZ

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receiving the Holy Name

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