Why would a Western person want to take up Krsna Consciousness???

[krsna 3]

 

 

 

At the Gaura-arati in Krishna-Balaram Mandir, an eighteen-year-old young man from India asked me why we Westerners take to Krsna consciousness.

 

by Pragosh dasa (ACBSP)

 

 

What I say when asked this question by Indians - which is very frequently -is the following.

 

"Let me ask you a question first, if I may?

'Why is it that you Indians also

eat, drink and breathe fresh air?'"

 

I let them ponder this for a few moments and then say the following:

 

"You see, you need to do these things in order to sustain your health. Once anyone - from any part of the world - comes to know the truth of Lord Krsna and our eternal relationship with him - they realize that ACTING upon this knowledge - especially through the chanting of the Holy ame - is absolutely essential to one's spiritual health. Then it is clear that whether one is from the West - the North - the South or the East - he will embrace what is called Krsna consciousness as the most PRIMARY OF ALL NECESSITIES OF LIFE."

 

Then I follow up with my own question:

 

"Are you born here in India? Yes! Then am I safe to assume that you are also practicing pure Krsna consciousness and also chanting the Holy Name of Krsna each day? NO? How is this possible? You have asked me WHY I am chanting, and I now ask you WHY you are not chanting?"

 

Usually a lively discussion ensues, and I can then offer them a book, and they generally accept with enthusiasm.

 

YS

 

Praghosa

 

[Guest guest]

The question remains...are westerners qualified for KC when their upbringing impels them to kill humans, animals, plants and the environment itself? Can killers ever become KC?

[Guest guest]

Why don't you just reverse the question?

 

"Dear Indian Hindu Sir, why do you dress in pants and shirt? Why are you using fork and knife? Why do you drink tea? Why do you drive around in a motorcar? Why do you adore beautiful blonds from Hollywood? Why do some of you become a Christian? Why do many of you become an atheist? Why are you drinking Coca Cola?" Etc etc.

 

Interesting discussion will ensue......

[Guest guest]

But our guest does not like the answer. Do you think you are living beyond the chains of birth and death dear guest just because you were born in India?

 

At the time of death... "But I was born in India..." won't save you.

[Guest guest]

Then I follow up with my own question:

 

"Are you born here in India? Yes! Then am I safe to assume that you are also practicing pure Krsna consciousness and also chanting the Holy Name of Krsna each day? NO? How is this possible? You have asked me WHY I am chanting, and I now ask you WHY you are not chanting?"

 

Isn't it a bit presumptious to suppose that since one is born in India, one should necessarily be practicing KC and chant the holy name of Krsna each day? There are so many kinds of worshippers and so many religieus practices within the broad spectrum of the Vedic tradition. What Mr. Pragosh is saying is only relevant to those who call themselves Vaisnavas, and more specifically Gaudiya Vaisnavas. You don't approach just any European and ask him why he isn't worshipping the Pope either, do you?

[Guest guest]

Do you think you are living beyond the chains of birth and death dear guest just because you were born in India?***

 

Not at all. Leave India out of this, we are talking about the westerner's attraction for Krishna. I am just wondering how westerners, who are by far the most barbaric race, can benefit from Krishna who happens to be the most lovable. It is so contradictory, isn't it? I mean, I can understand if a hideous Hitler appeals to westerners, for they are of the same mental makeup. But the beautiful, sweet Krishna....appealing to barbaric cultures is so hard to believe. But no offense, I do admire such westerners who are willing to give up their barbarism and accept Krishna.

 

[Guest guest]

If you think that Western culture is so barbaric, why do you drink Coca Cola, watch television, use a computer, and drive around in a motor car? Isn't there some picture of Adolf Hitler on your altar hidden?

[Guest guest]

The westerners have invented all those things, not because they are superior but because they got a headstart over the rest of the world by conquering other nations, exploiting their resources and so on. So it was easy for them to make capital goods on other nation's wealth and labor. That;s how the industrial revolution was born and the westerners went way ahead of others. So what's there to be proud of? If anything, it is barbaric. So stop feeling special that you invented those things. Other cultures could;ve invented them too, but they were too busy toiling and suffering under western barbarism to create wealth.

[mahoney 0]

Guest when our own people in India live like philistines how

can you blame the West. When i look at a majority of the Indians i sometimes wonder how this country can be called

a "great" country. A majority of these people are still caste ridden,superstitious(despite being educated) ,indisciplined,indifferent,boorish, selfish,dirty, uncivic minded,and corrupt to the core.

[Guest guest]

The nature of Krishna is to go where ever he is needed and wanted most.

If He wishes to change the poles of consciousness He can do that also, it was Krsna's choosing thru His devotees that the western world become conscious of Him.

If you accept reincarnation as a scientific fact you will understand that many souls from India have chosen to live elsewhere other than the densly populated continent of Bharat, just as many are choosing to physically imigrate with their families to the western regions.

[Guest guest]

You must be one of those brown gentlemen, ever willing to do the bidding for the westerners. lol. Anyway, this isn't about India, or its caste or boorish folks or whatever. Someone said west has invented this and that, and I tried to explain how in terms of capital goods production, which happens to be the most important for wealth creation. And they used unethical methods such as invasion, cheap labor/slavery and illegal occupation to produce them by gaining control over land and labor. That was the whole point and it has nothing to do with Indians being cast-riden and all that. That is not the topic of discussion, and you might start a new thread for your silly rants.

[mahoney 0]

Dont live in the past. I agree that India was a land of superman in the past but what can one say about the India of today. We are slightly better off from other inferior nations like Pakistan and Bangladesh. Use your head, or,agai are you

one of those "patriotic indians" who stay abroad and rave about India.What a bunch of hypocrites!!!

[Guest guest]

This thread is not about India. It is about west and KC. So stick to the subject. If you feel like talking about India, start another thread.

[theist 1]

We are presently sitting on a tiny speck of dust called earth.This speck of dust is spinning around and while spinning around is revolving around a sun which is the center of our solar system. That sun is itself a speck in the universe. This universe is a mustard seed in a bag of mustard seeds carried by Maha-Vishnu, The Lord of infinite creations both material and spiritual expanding in all conceivable directions without limits.

 

And upon this little speck of dust called earth some particle of a speck wants to suggest that Krsna is only for his own tiny little land and culture.

 

Let us expand our horizens a little more. It will tend to humble us.

[Guest guest]

I never said Krishna 'belongs' to any tiny little land, India included. Krishna belongs to the world. Agreed. I was simply wondering how westerners changed so quickly, considering they called krishna a devil and vedic traditions as filthy heathen practices, not so long ago. They've also done evil things to vedics in the past, so I am shocked that they should change so quickly. What effected this radical transformation?

 

That was my query, and I never suggested that Krishna belongs to any particular culture.

[Guest guest]

Not all westerners have said Krsna is the devil or destroyed vedic culture. I have seen many people from the west who are more into vedic philosophy then most Indian people.

 

I think most easterners are more responsible for destroying vedic culture then anyone from the outside

[theist 1]

First most people had never heard of Krsna or His teachings apart from more scholarly circles.

 

Now why the dramatic change in consciousness? That is a good observation and the answer lies at the feet of Krsna's empowered servant A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.

 

There can be no other cause. Anything else defies logic.

 

To understand it more deeply should be our goal. For that we will have to look into the nature of Srila Prabhupada and what he taught.

 

Someone extremely special and very rare just very recently walked on this Earth and has left a mountain of spiritually potent teachings.

 

In those teachings we will find the answer to why he was able to make the most fallen dance and sing the names of Hari.

[Guest guest]

Dramatic change in consciousness was already there, or was already unfolding, when Prabhupada came. Do you think when Prabhupada would have set foot in America in, let's say, 1865, his preaching would have been equally fruitful? It is just Krsna's plan that he came when the cherries were ripe for the picking...

 

Prabhupada himself said that he came at a time when people in the West (and especially USA) were at the verge of frustration, because of being satiated with material opulence, and this caused the younger generation to become hippies. The hippies turned their faces Eastward, and accepted anything which came from there, including Krsna-consciousness (the real thing). Because of their high degree of material frustration with material opulence and being disgusted with Western culture in general, only they were ready to accept Prabhupada's message. He was sent by higher forces to appear at the right time at the right place. That's my idea.

 

Planetary influences also most certainly played a big role.

 

Still, ALL GLORIES TO HIS DIVINE GRACE A.C. BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA, JAGAD GURU & PATITA PAVANA!!!!!

[Guest guest]

to set things up. Time is our worry, not Krsnas. When he appears, like described in the great Krsna Book, others precceed Him, Nanda Yasoda, Garga Muni. Lord Chaitanya was preceeded by Sri Madhavendra Puri, who largely included Srimati Radharani in the worship of Lord Krsna.

 

Srila Prabhupada was preceeded, to, most notably by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura, but we do not discount the realizations of the transcendentalists and others like Hugo, Thoreau, and others from the 18th and 19th century which enabled the expanse of this science.

 

A cosmic stroke of genius was that Srila Prabhupada arrived in the west after the many so-called gurus who presented themselves as avatars and incarnations of God. Srila Prabhupada had this dramatic change in that he directed his disciples to Krsna, not Himself. So, the 60s had Maharsi, Yogananda, Meher Baba, and Hare Krsna. What is unique about these four? Three were known by the Name of the teacher, the fourth had the name of the SUBJECT MATTER of the teaching.

 

No accidents here, no bad timing, perfect and complete.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[theist 1]

No doubt.

 

I just wanted to emphasis that without the specific empowerment and potency of Srila Prabhupada nothing would have come of it all.

 

Table set but no feast.

[krsna 3]

 

 

We should have firm faith in the Divinity. We are absolute infinitesimals, and it is only proper we should associate with the Absolute. If we show our diffidence to do so, we are likely to be entangled with the ephemeral matters of this world. Our friends are with us for a short while only. They will leave us at any time when they are called away from this world.

 

Whatever we do should tend towards association with the Divinity. We should not undertake any work for our temporary purposes. We are His dependents. Infinitesimals as we are, we should have our final place in Him.

 

We should carry out all our activities for His purpose only. We should not think that we have any other things to do. Unlike the ordinary people, we should have only one method of directing everything to Him for His service.

 

The external gross body is meant for a hundred years and no more. Our mental speculations are bound to be going on in our present human form. But we are obliged to leave this mortal coil and to cease our transactions with the external world at some time, however ardent we may be about having associations with the manifestive nature of things.

 

If we wish to associate ourselves with the Absolute, all non-absolute propaganda for our temporary purposes should be abandoned as far as possible, otherwise we will be led to become materialists only. That non-absolute propaganda will instigate us to entangle ourselves with worldly thoughts and ideas. We will be thinking of physical developments instead of associating ourselves with the Absolute.

 

We are all absolutes though infinitesimally small. Because we have shown diffidence we have proved our indolence to associate with Him. So, like shooting stars, we have been simply thrown off from Him.

 

We have rebelled against that Entity. Now to go back to Him, it is essential that all our associations and movements should tend to His service.

 

First of all he should be designated. Who is He? What form does He have? And how are we to go back to Him? When we come to know that He keeps Himself aloof from everything in this phenomenal world, we feel the necessity of associating with Him. And this association can be had if we can eliminate the external impediments which are like screens between the Absolute Infinity and the absolute infinitesimals.

 

Our mental speculations are meant for associating with the phenomenal objects. But some philosophers thought it possible to turn our mental speculations to Him in His abstract form, instead of His manifestive nature. But here we have got His manifestive nature for the purpose of associating ourselves with Him.

 

We cannot have this association by any sort of privations. The phenomenal objects are undesirable things. Although they have some effect on us, they are all transient and will not hold good for us till the end of time. We do not think, like materialists, that our existence will cease. The materialists think that everything will stop when we die—that all our troubles will end at death. This miserable idea should be thrown off.

 

We should engage all our activities to associate ourselves with the Absolute, as we are ourselves associated infinitesimals. We are not the body, nor the mind, nor the external atmosphere. We require disassociation from these. These undesirable situations should be eliminated at all cost, otherwise we will be engrossing ourselves entirely in the ordinary purposes of this world.

 

 

Lower animals are used as food by many people. In ancient times, when cannibalism was prevalent in the world, people used to eat human flesh. They thought that the human body was meant for their consumption. Later on when civilisation made progress, people gave up cannibalism, but went on taking the flesh of lower animals. In India persons belonging to the higher castes do not take animal food. The development of religious thoughts have stopped the practice of cruelty to animals in many ways. Science has now proved that vegetables too have life and can feel pain and pleasure.

 

But it is not meant that we should commit suicide by abstaining from taking any food. This problem is solved when food is meant for the purpose of the Absolute.

 

Everything has come out of Him, everything will go back to Him and everything is meant for His service. All animate and inanimate objects have come out of Him and are meant for His service only. If we purloin these things, it would be deceiving the Absolute. We are absolute infinitesimals and are deluded by the ordinary manifestive character of the phenomena. We have to get rid of this delusion. We should have a peep into the Truth, and that Truth must be reached.

 

If we are sincere, He will expose Himself to our vision. Whatever we do, we should do it for Him, for His eternal purpose, instead of indulging ourselves in transitory transactions. Our only function is not to carry on our work for our own purpose. We should not be the recipients of the fruits of the enterprises we have. It is better for us that whatever we do should be done in His favour and for His service. We are servitors. If we keep dogs, we would be servants of dogs. If We keep horses we would be servants of horses, and if we become altruists, we would be servants of human beings only. But the Absolute should be served at all costs.

 

We should make it a point that all our activities should tend to His service. All animate and inanimate beings have emanated from Him. We should serve the Absolute and not engage ourselves in the non-absolute.

 

Most people are at a loss to understand what they should do and what they are meant for. They only see the superficial side of things. The external side of things are quite deluding. As intelligent men, we should be very careful. We should penetrate into everything properly. Our view should not be obstructed by the morphological representation of things, nor by the ontological side of things.

 

The methodical arrangement of the phenomena should not be restricted to our ordinary purpose of living only. But since our aim is a peaceful life, we do not wish to be troubled by the undesirable elements of the world. Sometimes we find a little peace by keeping rules and regulations and observing civic principles. But we are again put into trouble by some misunderstanding or other of the people from outside. There is some agency working behind, which is not exposed to our present senses.

 

Our sensuous nerves are quite ineligible for the purpose of associating with the truth. The semblance of devotion and truth which people may put on often deceives us.

 

The external features, the morphological and ontological phases of things, are sometimes found to be detrimental to our cause when our ambition is to come in touch with the Absolute. We have the facility of possessing the experience of the last ten thousand years. We can judge and discern the best method for our adoption, instead of indulging ourselves in the way ordinary people are transacting their business round about us.

 

Our senses respond readily to the objects of the phenomena. Super-sensuous objects are simply neglected. The eternal representations, the eternal manifestations and the eternal aspects are fully neglected. We aspire to have the fullest advantage of coming in touch with all desirable things.

 

In our present life, we find that all these are treacherous and only lead us to the satisfaction of our senses only. This non-absolute propaganda should cease. Whatever else we may do, we should make it a point that we should have neither diffidence nor indolence in offering our services to the Absolute.

 

The word "Absolute" is explained in different ways. We have experience of the non-absolutes and undesirable objects of the phenomena. Our mind is found to be of a non-absolute nature. The mind discerns things for the purpose of the senses only. The Absolute is delineated as one who has reserved the right of not being exposed to human senses. If the Absolute was an object of the phenomena, we would be lording it over Him. But that is not the correct situation. We should dedicate ourselves as His servitors. We should not think that we are enjoyers and He is the predominated object of our enjoyment. He is never so.

 

We are obliged to pass through undesirable situations. We want to get rid of all these things. Our inner impulse should be to have access to that region where all objects will offer us special opportunity of having association with the Absolute. Our purpose should be to associate with the fullness, with the eternity, with the purity, with the best of desirables, and not to mix with the temporary things of delusive nature.

 

We should not have a crippled idea of Godhead. We should wait for the transcendental message to come to us in full. We would have then an opportunity of associating with Him. We should set apart some time to make progress towards the investigation of the Transcendence.

 

We are very small. Some overwhelming influence comes upon us and we are troubled. So we should have recourse to the Absolute Infinity. We should not be acting like shooting stars in flying away from Him, but we should go back to our original place. There the manifestive nature is eternally present, whereas here the phenomenal objects are meant for a few days only. So we should have this eternal benefit as our objective. We can ignore all these influences of nature, all influences of scientific discoveries, if we have the determination to associate ourselves only with the Whole Entity.

 

There are many things concealed and hidden and not revealed to us, and these are to be received through our aural reception. Our auditory nerves should be trained to be susceptible to sound waves from the transcendental messenger so that we can make progress towards the Transcendence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(This conversation, which took place on September 1st, 1936, was originally published in "The Hamonist" on January 20th, 1936, then later re-published in "Sri Gaudiya Darshan" in 1983.)

[krsna 3]

No other alternative…

December 17th, 2005

 

 

In Bhagavad-gita it is said that when Krishna is within our view, at that time one is not disturbed even in the midst of gravest calamity. Anyway, even if we are disturbed, then the only resort is to chant and concentrate one’s mind in Krishna. There is no other alternative. Chanting and dancing make one relieved of all material burdens.

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Hamsaduta — Hawaii 23 March, 1969