"desire to desire"

[theist 1]

"Blessed are those that hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled." -Lord Jesus Christ

 

"Do not seek water, for water is EVERYWHERE! Seek THIRST!" -Rumi

 

Isn't it true? We swim and move and have our being in God, yet we pretend we seek so hard but cannnot find Him. Except for ourselves who are we fooling?

 

Is the Lord hiding from us or are we from Him?

 

[gHari 0]

Very scarey honesty here. Seems we may be ready to put a camel through the eye of a needle after all.

 

[theist 1]

I can't look within for long at anyone time. I tend to start to go into shock. Then I hurry back to the theist game where for some undefined reason I feel safe. Like the proverbial Ostrich with its head in the sand, "There's no Tiger....There's no Tiger...I don't see any Tiger"

[gHari 0]

Eventually that constantly increasing uncontrollable attachment for Krsna will overcome the defence mechanisms of ahankhara. When we cannot bear to be without Krsna another second, then we will have His attention and Him. The meeting of the separated eternal lovers is thus orchestrated to bring Absolute sweetness to both parties.

 

So, as you curse your eyelids for blinking, you again heighten your desire. Soon enough that desire, that attachment, that greed will consume you, overpower you, drive you crazy until you become the defenceless helpless lover you've always been.

 

 

[krsna 3]

Conversation With

Srila Prabhupada

 

Visala: I remember over five years ago you telling me about, "If you read the first nine cantos of Srimad-Bhagavatam, you become fully Krsna conscious." Would you kindly tell me what does it mean to be

fully Krsna conscious?

Prabhupada: What do you understand, fully Krsna conscious?

Visala: What does it mean to be fully Krsna conscious?

Prabhupada: No, what you mean, first of all let me know.

Harikesa: What do you think fully Krsna concious means? You tell Prabhupada.

Visala: It's to see Krsna face to face?

Prabhupada: That means Krsna conscious? Everyone is seeing Krsna face to face. When you go to the temple Krsna is there, and you are seeing. Does it mean everyone is Krsna conscious?

Visala: No.

Prabhupada: Then what is the meaning of Krsna conscious?

Indian man: Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati.

Prabhupada: Hm, that is part of Krsna consciousness, brahma bhutah.

Real Krsna consciousness is: "Krsna is master, I am servant." This is Krsna consciousness.

Visala: To understand that you're the servant and Krsna is the master. I see.

Prabhupada: When you fully understand, that is your Krsna... That is Krsna conscious. (break) So long you think that "I can also become like Krsna," then you are not Krsna conscious.

Visala: In other words, if you still have material desires you can't be fully Krsna conscious.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is the beginning of Krsna consciousness, anyabhilasita-sunyam. Make all your material desires zero.

Visala: Thank you very much.

Prabhupada: That is Krsna conscious. You should only desire to serve

Krsna. (break) ...clear or not?

Visala: Very clear. Thank you very much.

Harikesa: What if a person doesn't desire material enjoyment, but still, there is so much dirt?

Prabhupada: Hm? Who is that person who has no material desires?

Harikesa: A person really wants to be Krsna conscious, but somehow or

another, so much dirts gets in the way.

Prabhupada: Yes. Dirt means it is not yet zero. I said that all material desires should be made zero. Anyabhilasita-sunyam.

Harikesa: As soon as the desires completely change, then everything

else is purified.

Prabhupada: Yes. As Arjuna said, karisye vacana tava, nasto mohah: "Now my illusion is over. I agree to act as you say." This is Krsna conscious. Nasto moha smrtir labdh tvat prasadan madhusudana.

(break) The moha is there. Moha means these desires are illusion, like dreaming. In dream we see so many things. They are all false. In dreaming I am seeing that somebody is coming to kill me but there is

nobody, but still, I am dreaming. This is called moha. So when one is free from moha, then he's Krsna conscious. The whole material world is going on under such illusion. Therefore it is called maya. Hare Krsna.

Thank you. (end)

[krsna 3]

This is 'THE' problema Senor...

 

Krsna can be had right now,Pronto! Is it not? Krsna is everywhere present always.

 

But the thing is amigo, 'can you desire Krsna'?

 

Do you have the required eligibility to even think of desiring Krsna?

 

To desire Krsna is impossible for a fool and unfortunately I'm a fool numero uno!

[theist 1]

From every angle we are defeated. There is no way we can secure our own victory. We cannot even manage our own surrender. When we finally accept that and place All our hope in Krsna.....

 

Until that moment this is our sometimes rocky path but one that must be tread. Glimpse by glimpse

 

 

gHar: Eventually that constantly increasing uncontrollable attachment for Krsna will overcome the defence mechanisms of ahankhara. When we cannot bear to be without Krsna another second, then we will have His attention and Him. The meeting of the separated eternal lovers is thus orchestrated to bring Absolute sweetness to both parties.

 

So, as you curse your eyelids for blinking, you again heighten your desire. Soon enough that desire, that attachment, that greed will consume you, overpower you, drive you crazy until you become the defenceless helpless lover you've always been.

 

 

You know we read posts so quickly sometimes. But take the above in deeply. Does this not encapsulate the passage into raganuga-bhakti beautifully?

 

[krsna 3]

Inherent Spiritual Rasa

 

 

“Although conditioned by material nature, the living entity is not cut off from his spiritual identity. Due to his association with the contaminated material atmosphere, the conditioned living entity's spiritual identity is transformed as the mind. Still, one is not separated from his constitutional nature. Now the soul has faith, hope, and happiness in the material condition. In this state, however, the rasa of one's constitutional nature is perverted into sense gratification in the form of happiness and distress.

What is vikara, or perversion?

When pure characteristics are deformed that is vikara.

Even in the state of vikara, pure characteristics remain perceivable. The rasa experienced in activities of sense enjoyment is deformed spiritual rasa. That inherent spiritual rasa can be minutely perceived by self-confidence. Although perverted rasa can be easily differentiated from that rasa by simple intelligence, still, while chanting the holy name the inherent spiritual rasa is referred to as bhakti-rasa in order to differentiate it. The nature of bhakti and the nature of material love are not independent from one another. The latter is only the reflected state of the former. The rationalists experience the spiritual rasa to some extent, and by mistake they think the nature of bhakti and the nature of material love are different subjects. Those who are a little familiar with bhakti-rasa and have discussed the nature of both don't have such beliefs.”

 

Excerpt from the book "Prema Pradipa" - By Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura

[theist 1]

speechless

[krsna 3]

 

 

 

Only those who are laden with heavy luggage search for a porter. Looking in every direction porters are offering their services to such persons. Persons who get off the train with a small bag move about undetected. In the same way Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is for those, who feel their life is heavy with burden, being distressed at the burden of mundane life. To those fortunate souls searching for help Mahaprabhu give his immediate attention. Mahaprabhu becomes their property and gives himself to them wholesale, he asks for nothing in return, except to chant with love the holy name and associate with those who are insiders.

 

 

Chanting the holy name is everything. For this reason he is Patita Pavana. He is running after us day and night constantly reminding us to embrace the holy name. By chanting the holy name everything is possible, all good fortune will come to us. For those who are to materially absorbed and well to do, they will talk of other things.

 

 

 

 

Submitted for the pleasure of all the kind hearted devotees by Arijit Das

 

[Guest guest]

Dont you desire to be with your near and dear ones/ Why do you want to be with Krishna who is only interested in making people suffer??? He is playing a horrible and dirty game using all of us as pawns. We are stuck in this horrible playground of his . Tell me who is happy on this lousy planet???

[Guest guest]

First of all, you must tell me who is happy in their desire of proximaty with the near and dear ones?

 

We are those who chose to take birth on a planet where all things die. So in an ideal situation, we love till death, and then we are ripped away and thrown into darkness, and near and dear ones are powerless to do anything about it. And this ideal situation of loving and being loved is illusory and not existing if one is truthful with themselves.

 

And though Krsna through his external energy seemingly plays the unconscionable and abominable game as you describe, this is not his playground. It is our playground while we are in the illusion that we are the supreme lord of all we survey. We get this playground because kRSNAS pLAYGROUND IS OCCUPIED BY THE rEAL kRSNA. When we remember how to be a real playmate, we see the internal feature of the all attractive Krsna. Until then, we only have a ghastly image of reality.

 

And you must analyze the true nature of fire, part of Krsnas external feature. It hurts like hell. But if it did not hurt like hell, we would leave our fingers in it until our hands were gone. This hjorrible playground is the university of hard knocks, and when we graduate, we see the nature of fire and dont get burnt. We hate Krsna here just like the student hates the professor who makes his schooling miserable. But who else cares about you, not those near and dear who have nothing at all to offer but a fading vision of illusion as we are ripped out of our temporary forms, over and over and over again.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[mahoney 0]

No way I agree with guest . God has made this horrible world

only to make people suffer. You are wrong.Every being wants to be with its loved ones.People pray to God to give them this and that but i am sure given a choice nobody would want to be with God,People would rather be with their loved ones!!! Ask anyone!!

[Guest guest]

God made this material world to facilitate our desires to enjoy independent from Him. It's not His fault our misuse of His gifts has turned our joy to sorrow.

Well I'm anyone and I wish to be with God and my loved ones.

Not as much as I should but a faint glimmer is there.

Without God we won't have loved ones. For God is the lover, the loved and the love being shared.

Seek ye first your central relationship with God and all your other relationships will be fullfilled.

Even cruelty is kindness in Gods world.

[Guest guest]

God is cooel more than cruel!

He luvs ya more than you'll ever know.

[mahoney 0]

What about all the sickness and suffering in the world.Do you

want to classify that as an act of kindness by God . Do you

think people are responsible for everything that happens to them.I dont think so!!

[theist 1]

it's your dream Mahoney. Sufferer? Then pick your role more wisely. That or wake up entirely.

[Guest guest]

Everyone in this world is suffering the reaction of what they have done previously. If we break Gods laws there is a system in place to correct us and that in itself is merciful, otherwise crime after more serious crimes would be committed. If a serial killer does'nt get apprehended then they go on to commit more degraded crimes on others causing increasing suffering on the whole environment and themselves.

A good workman never blames his tools.

Until we come to realize we are responsible for the world we are experiencing, we will live in ignorance thinking the environment or God is to blame for the mess. Or that there is no God and everything is just random anarcy.

But we must understand that this place is not where the normal healthy souls choose to hang out.

When we think, “I am responsible for all my lawlessness,”

there will be a favourable time ahead and we will be released from our suffering burden.

 

When a criminal sees their punishment is justified, then with some atonement we will be freed to live in Gods healthier environments and no longer make a nuisance of ourselves, then we will enter the door of real salvation.

It does'nt mean suffering will automaticly stop in this world, but our consciousness will help us realize our properly adjusted nature and we can then live like the lily in swampy waters, yet not be affected by the pollution. Staying focussed on the transcendental world where we belong.

 

I just saw how in Zimbabwe that 36% of the adult population is now affected with HIV and it is increasing rapidly, and that it's still acceptable for men to have as many partners as they wish even in marriage, so what is the conclusion? Their sex life is more important than the pain they inflict on others, many won't even have tests because if they are tested positive they may have to have a concience for their actions and change their habit.

Did God cause this suffering, is it His command to have unrestricted sexlife? I think not.

[mahoney 0]

A person if he/she commits a crime should face the consequences in that birth itself.Only that will make the person turn inward. Only then will true realisation come.

 

If i dont remember what good/bad that I have done then how can i justify the rewards/punishments given therafter. Your arguments do not have any logical standing here

[Guest guest]

seeing things that you have to see, not seeing things that you want to see. I can live in my own dream until I wake up and see the stench of reality going up my nostrils.

 

Sweet dreams!

[Guest guest]

BG 5:10: "One who performs his duty without attachment, surrendering the results unto the Supreme Lord, is unaffected by sinful action, as the lotus leaf is untouched by water."

 

So if a terrorist goes and kills people who did nothing to him personally in the name of Allah is okay by this standard?

Answer: NO

 

He shall pay for his actions. Now , where did this thought "The terrorist shall pay for his actions" come from?

Answer: Conscience. So, what is the guiding principle here?

Conscience.

What is conscience?

Follow the quote from BG to figure that one out.

 

-Sam

 

[theist 1]

 

seeing things that you have to see, not seeing things that you want to see. I can live in my own dream until I wake up and see the stench of reality going up my nostrils.

 

Sweet dreams!

 

 

For sure our dreams of a life that does not center around Krsna all have a particular stench to them. But even while still caught in that dreaming state we can start dreaming of Krsna and His service.

 

In this way Reality comes into our dream "reality" and when it has fully occupied our consciousness then we will have awakened.

 

The transitional state that most of us are in is difficult. The Reality coming in is juxtapositioned against our old notions of reality and it leaves us often rather confused. Like a sea that is calm one minute and storm tossed the next. Only Krsna and His devotees can see us safely to Realities shore, to the Awakened world.

 

[Guest guest]

A war criminal may run away from the heinous deeds they have

done to humanity, and think that somehow they have alluded the reactions of their crimes/sins. Unrepentent, they may live out their life untill old age in another country escaping the laws of this world. Then you are saying that just by death alone they are relieved of reaction, is it reasonable that Adolf Hitler, or Idi Amin, Pol Pot exterminate millions of lives in the most degrading and cowardice fasion? Then just because they committed suicide or alluded the law of the land, that they should'nt be accountable or subject to the laws of karma, is this reasonable? The truth is none escape this fundamental universal law. Whether you believe/accept it or not the laws of cause and effect are in place for the soul, not just the body, and you won't change it just by complaining that God doesn't know what He is doing, or that His system has holes in it.

 

Many monsters apparantly get away with their crimes untill they face reality at the doors of death, then surprize, surprize they may well come face to face with their victims, in the Supreme court of Yamaraj and the foolproof judiscial system of God... Karma... rebirth. We get what we deserve.

 

So to get back to the thread, try to shift your desire to do that which brings the most beneficial result, do good or pure good for other living entities and make this world a better place for the souls here to advance in their progress towards Krsnas' Kingdom that is truly like the world you want.

 

For the soul there is no thereafter, the self-realized understand life is continual. Existence doesn't cease just because you exit one portal and enter another. Many may try to wipe their conscience in a state of denial, but reality will always return at some point to remind us.

Let us try to humbly aquire that help being given by the agents of the merciful Absolute.

[krsna 3]

Sri Navadvipa-dhama-mahatmya

 

by

 

Srila Bhaktivinoda

 

 

CH 1 - TEXT 6

 

 

 

 

Just as the fruits of work in this lifetime are all utimately destroyed, in the same way the benefits in the next life are also all ultimately destroyed. One who does not understand the nature of the soul remains unfulfilled and unsatisfied, even though he may obtain all his material desires. He does not attain the spiritual world on the death of the body. One who understands the nature of the soul becomes satisfied and fulfilled. He obtains all his desires in this world and attains the spiritual world on the death of the body.

[krsna 3]

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur

 

 

The name of Krishna on the lips of the supreme Lord (Sri Caitanya)realize the truth of whom they had been told by the scriptures. This was a most marvelous experience.

In this Iron Age it is only the name of Krishna appearing on lips of a bona fide sadhu who can lift the conditioned soul to the plane of the absolute. As a matter of fact even the scriptures also can only faintly describe the personality Godhead. The mere study of the scriptures can convey no full knowledge of the absolute as substantive entity. The name Krishna has the power to put the person on the absolute plane and endow the words of the revealed scriptures with their living meaning.

 

On the plane of the absolute all entities serve Godhead in infinite variety of forms and run harmoniously into, instead of clashing against, one another. Division of the person who once hears the name of Krishna undergoes this marvelous change. He can only then really believe in Godhead because he understands and sees whom he is to serve. He becomes in the substantive sense a bona fide theist or Vaisnava. - Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati had the power of making all persons, who heard it,

 

Note: My advice to all sincere devotees is; " hear the Divine Name and the Holy Scriptures from the lips of a living self realized devotee ( Diksha or Siksha ) and serve him \ her with heart and soul".

- Editor of Dharmakshetra.com

 

Upadesavali of Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada