Does god control our desires?

[TheMerkaba 0]

Does god control our desires? Does he make us want something? Does he create desires and makes us act on them? Is it truly only his choices, in which way we live?

 

 

[Kulapavana 0]

first of all you have to learn what is really your desire and what is the desire of your body, both physical and subtle. that is far more complex than most people think.

 

desires coming from the soul are truly your own, but sometimes the Supersoul will whisper things to you that you will see as your desires, inducing you to act in a way that Krishna finds usefull at the time.

[Guest guest]

I was wondering if God controls our initial desire to come to the material world to try to lord it over and enjoy matter. If He is all-powerful, then He should have a hand in this. But then what about our socalled minute independence? Can a soul actually independently decide to surrender, or is he (she) at one point FORCED to surrender by the will of God? Or is it a combination of BOTH the use of free will AND the will of God that will bring one to the point of surrender or not-surrender?

[theist 1]

 

I was wondering if God controls our initial desire to come to the material world to try to lord it over and enjoy matter. If He is all-powerful, then He should have a hand in this.

 

 

No, He allows us the choice to serve Him or imitate Him. He has all power. But what does that mean exactly. His power is His energy. He is the Energetic who is in full control of His own power. Control means He can use it when He wants and withold it when He wants. He can apply His hand or choose to hold it back. It must mean both. He chooses not to force us into service for then that would be slavery correct? Forced service is slavery in the lowest sense of the word. Who would want a bunch of disgruntled people around him giving him massages and feeding him grapes while internally hating you?

 

Love is based on free will. So Krsna choose to spend His eternity surrounded by free will endowed loving servants rather than slaves.

 

And why would Krsna ever need slaves being the ultimate controller of His own infinite energies? There is absolutely nothing we can offer the Lord that He cannot obtain Himself.

 

Except one thing... our freely given love.

 

That is the reason behind sadhana-bhakti. It keeps one out of trouble and headed in the proper direction, connecting with rememberances of Krsna and hopefully at some point we will become attracted enough to choose to fall in love with Krsna spontaneously. That is when we graduate from zombie life to real life in pure awakened Krsna consciousness.

 

The choice is always ours.

[Guest guest]

We are all puppets. We live a life of no choice.Good or bad or ugly.

 

We are totally driven by an extrernal software written by some one whom we have no idea about.

 

The only freedom we have is to realise that we are puppets

 

Just as the software runs its course, so will we....every second of our life is under the control of the external software, not even a single event is under our control.

 

Any one disagreeing, pls think over your life till date, and try to point out one incident where you have achieved something exactly as planned by you right down to the last detail?

 

We only hear...My good luck, My bad Luck, God's grace...etc...do we ever hear I planned such and such a thing to happen at such a such a time and it happened....??

 

Any comments????

[Kulapavana 0]

"We live a life of no choice"

 

not true at all! you think Krishna would waste His time speaking Bhagavad Geeta if we had no choice? you grasp a bit of philosophy and think you understand such advanced topics? try to understand you are not this body first. Hare Krishna!

[Guest guest]

Krsna? Bhagavad geeta? .thats what is written in some book the origins of which are unknown......Can u show me one single person who has achieved? And that includes you my friend....

Can u say that u will have your lunch at exactly 12:30:00??

[Kulapavana 0]

yes, by 12:00:00 on my watch. what is next? you will add more digits in your request? what does it prove anyway?

 

we all make choices all the time. judging by the analogy you use, you probably watch too many movies like Matrix /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Guest guest]

WOW...Amazing...Matrix is one of my favorite movies!! The point I am trying to make is that are we really making the choices or are we driven towards a course of action and make believe that we have made the choice??

 

I understand there is a statement in one of the holy books that says "Not even a blade of grass can move without consent"

[sumedh 0]

Hare Krishna

 

Yes, consent is His but the desire is our own. On our own we have no existence what to speak of any power to do anything, so the Super Soul aids to fulfil our desires (whether appropriate or inappropriate) in accordance with the laws of nature and thus the responsibility is solely in our hands. Of course, when we have totally surrendered to the Lord, the desire and consent are one and the same -- that of the Lord.

[Kulapavana 0]

"The point I am trying to make is that are we really making the choices or are we driven towards a course of action and make believe that we have made the choice??"

 

both of these exist side by side. the main choice is always: do I want to serve Krishna or do I want to serve myself?

 

we may not be making ALL the choices but we certainly make them all the time. consent has nothing to do with a choice. consent merely means that Krishna allows something to happen. chosing on the other hand is an inherent quality of the soul. Krishna has unlimited choices, and we have limited choices, but in both cases free choice is there.

[theist 1]

I have found pinpointing an exact moment of pure free will to be most illusive. I accept that I have it but I can't point it out exactly at any given moment. I can always see the influence of the modes of nature in everything I do. But on some level I must be expressing a desire that is detectable to Supersoul.

 

I undestand the guests dilema. But it is wrom

ng to think we have no free will and the point Kulapavana brought out is the best example. Krsna explains the bhagavad-gita then tells Arjuna "Now do what you want to do.."

 

So Krsna is acknowledging the free will of the soul.

 

Details? I don't know.

[Guest guest]

Krsna explains the bhagavad-gita then tells Arjuna "Now do what you want to do.."

So Krsna is acknowledging the free will of the soul.

----

 

Is it acknowledging free will or just saying "there is nothing u can do?"