Is there such thing as hell & devil?

[TheMerkaba 0]

My argument is that no it does not excist, because god would love his parcel to much to ever send us to a hellish place and suffer for eternity... I think hell and the devil are created to scare people into belive into christanian religion

 

what are your views?

[Guest guest]

hell exist and it is eternal if we do not choose a liberation's path

[Kulapavana 0]

the idea of unlimited punishment (eternal hell) for rejecting God is purely the invention of semitic priests. In Vedic tradition the view is quite different:

 

1. God is NOT punishing us for rejecting Him. we are punished for our DEEDS, not our doubts.

 

2. Punishment is proportionate to our sins. Unlimited punishment for even a very horrible life is contrary to the idea that God is just in His judgements.

 

that is the essence of Aryan religions

 

 

as to the concept of Devil, as Gods adversary: again, this is a non-vedic concept, going back to primitive religions. the struggle between good an evil is a struggle in our consciousness - not in Cosmos. God, by very definition, has no real rival. but there certainly are evil beings in this world - in both physical and subtle realm.

[Guest guest]

"the idea of unlimited punishment (eternal hell) for rejecting God is purely the invention of semitic priests"

 

we too have the concept of eternal punishment, we people of the material world are called "nitya baddha" or eternally conditionated

 

the difference from semitic conception is that we can stay eternally in material world but we can also accept the mercy of the lord and go back home... christians and muslims believe that one can be condemned and be lost eternally even if he desires sincerely to be saved

 

so eternity of "punishment" is there in both philosophies, the difference is the possibility to quit it that "semitics" say that there's not and "vedics" say that there's at any moment

[sumedh 0]

Hare Krishna

 

"we too have the concept of eternal punishment, we people of the material world are called "nitya baddha" or eternally conditionated"

No it is not punishment, it is our own desire to be independent of God; and since there is no rasa without God the conditioned souls suffer in the material worlds.

Becoming subject to hellish conditions is somewhat different and is a result of our actions.

 

For the original poster:

From the perspective of one who is situated in the spiritual realm the whole material existence will seem like a hell, so then the hell being talked is only relatively higher in degree. Don't we see and hear of the utmost miserable conditions of other beings like a hell on earth, so what is this position that there can be no hell.

The devil concept cannot be found in Vedic texts other than the general category of devilish beings envious of God (basically almost all of the beings i guess, since that is the reason beings became conditioned in the first place!!). The other possiblity is, of course, the mind itself -- more specifically the rajas guna (mode of passion).

[Guest guest]

"we too have the concept of eternal punishment, we people of the material world are called "nitya baddha" or eternally conditionated"

No it is not punishment

 

in the present discussion it is a detail, there's laws and the laws react to who goes against them...

 

now we are discussing if it is possible to stay eternally in hell or a hellish condition.... and both cultures say yes... the only difference is that for vedas we never lose the possibility to get out from hell

[Kulapavana 0]

first of all, if you define the entire material world as "hell" (and this is NOT a Vedic definition) the concept loses it's meaning.

 

second, the "nitya" in nitya baddha is a figure of speach, as it is really: "as long as they have a desire for it". semitic concept of eternal punishment is "forever, wihout any chance of redemption"

 

and third (as someone stated earlier), Krishna does not PUNISH us by placing us in the material world:

 

HE GRACIOUSLY ALLOWS US TO PLAY OUT OUR DESIRES FOR INDEPENDENT ENJOYMENT AS LONG AS WE LIKE

 

there is a world of difference between the Vedic siddhanta and the semitic religions. do not try to make it artificially all one. dharma projita kaitavatra...

[Guest guest]

second, the "nitya" in nitya baddha is a figure of speach, as it is really: "as long as they have a desire for it".

 

and the desire can be eternal...

 

so in both cultures is possible to not come back to godhead.. that's the fact

 

find difference when there are differences

[Kulapavana 0]

there is a HUGE difference between

 

 

NOT WANTING

 

 

to come back out of your free choice and

 

 

NOT BEING ABLE

 

 

to come back as a punishment.(which would YOU rather have? does it make a difference for you?)

 

people who insist on seeing such things on equal terms delude themselves and others, resorting to all kinds of word jugglery to 'prove' their point.

[Guest guest]

"hell exist and it is eternal if we do not choose a liberation's path "

 

this is my simple first message in this discussion.. then you wanted to speculate..

 

so the eternity of hell is in both cultures... other things (including reasons to be there and if it is possible to get out) are different

 

ok?

 

harekrsna

[vanamali 1]

Even if you are an asura and would like to remain an asura for eternity, if Krishna or Rama, etc. kills you personally, you are liberated anyway. So... /images/graemlins/smile.gif