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On the "Hare Krishna Hare Rama" Maha Mantra

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But in the Upnishads it says Rama first because Ramas avatara was first..

 

 

First, this is a misconception. The older manuscripts of Kalisantarana Upanishad include the Hare Krishna first. It is only a single South Indian manuscript which has the Hare Rama first, and this text is of a later date.

 

Second the opinion that the names of the Lord are mentioned based on the chronological order of their incarnation is just a mental concoction. There is no such statement found in scripture. The Lord's incarnations are cyclical, constantly appearing in each yuga. Millions of Ramachandra's have descended in previous Treta Yugas, and millions of Krishna's have also descended in previous Dvapara Yugas. One can not trace out the origins of the Lord's incarnations as they are eternal and beyond time. In future yugas Ramachandra will again descend, as will Lord Krishna.

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Prabhupada would not steer us wrong. He always taught according to shastra and I will always go by His word over anyone else in this material world. I am just a simple person and His guidance is what I need.

 

Winand, did you really read my Prabhupada Maha Mantra post?

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(That is another discussion all together..Look at the caste system ..it is hereditary now.. but in prev times it wasnt.

In the Nord the Vaishnavs have a lot of power.. and the muslim invasion and the brittish continuous foul play: made the levels of confusion rise. But in the south things stayed relatively pure.... thats why i love the south.)

 

True.. in the future Shri Krishna Bhagvan will come again and again and again..

 

Why then comes the Hare Krishna first? .. is there no reason.. everthing form our shastras makes sense. But we dont need to break our head about this.. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Now, what about the interpetation of Shri Rama as feminine compared to Shri Krishna ..is this complete bogus?? Or is this done out of love for the isht deva.

 

 

Ps. Thank U ..Jndas for reading my posts!

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The Maha Mantra comes from the 'Kali Santarana Upanishad' that is not the same as one of the 4 Vedas.

 

 

Each Upanishad belongs to one branch of the Vedas and are themselves shruti. The Kali Santarana Upanishad belongs to the Krishna Yajur Veda.

 

 

The Maha Mantra comes from the 'Kali Santarana Upanishad'... There it says that it is "Shri Rama" who is glorified an sung to..!!!

 

 

Actually it doesn't say this. It simply provides the mantra as is without commentary, only mentioning that it contains the names of the Purusha (enjoyer).

 

 

Then if the Maha Mantra comes from the Upnishads, then why are the isckonners not scolars in Upnishads???? Actually the maha mantra isnt mentioned in the Gita.. So studying upnishads would be more logical.

 

 

We receive mantras from gurus, not from books. It is irrelevant which book a mantra came in. One must chant the mantra that has been given to one by the guru, only then will one receive full benefit. We must also know the purpose for chanting this mantra, and that is fully explained in the Bhagavad Gita by Lord Krishna. Thus it is more relevant for the present times to study the Bhagavad Gita.

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If we chant the Maha Mantra with out any pause in the middle, then you will clearly see that the very starting and stopping points to this mantra vanish.

 

"Why then comes the Hare Krishna first? .. is there no reason.. everthing form our shastras makes sense. But we dont need to break our head about this.. "

 

The starting and stopping points of this mantra do not matter, because they are referring to the same thing.

 

It has been clearly stated by Jndas prabhu : "It simply provides the mantra as is without commentary, only mentioning that it contains the names of the Purusha (enjoyer)." /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

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...then again some people who chant this great and beautiful mantra look down on the great epic "Ramayana" and theat is as second hand compared to the Gita.

 

 

Ramayana is respected by all Gaudiya vaishnavas, but their primary scriptures for meditation are the Gita and the Bhagavatam. The Bhagavad Gita is considered the essence of all Vedic knowledge (Gitopanishad) and Shankara describes it as the milk of the Upanishads. Madhva has stated the Gita to be the cream of the Mahabharata, etc. Thus Gaudiya Vaishnava's give primary importance to the Gita over other Vedic literatures. This is not because the other texts are not great. The Vedas are like an ocean of nectar, but our mouth is small and can only drink so much.

 

The Vedas and Puranas also deal with mundane topics such as dharma, artha, kama and moksha, which the Vaishnavas are generally not interested in. Those scriptures which do not focus on these lower aims and which were spoken for the rasika bhaktas are considered the topmost. Such literatures do not focus on anything other than bhagavad-bhakti. The Gita and Bhagavatam fall in this category, and are therefore given precedence over all other scriptures.

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Terminology like "these lower aims" sounds very adharmic to me, on another (dutch) site there is also an Gaudiya Vaishnava he talks very similar to you.. we have deducted there that the Love of the isht deva should be great ...that is a good thing but terminology like "these lower aims" is very wrong. But we are not jivan muktas so we could be wrong.

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We receive mantras from gurus, not from books. It is irrelevant which book a mantra came in. One must chant the mantra that has been given to one by the guru, only then will one receive full benefit. We must also know the purpose for chanting this mantra, and that is fully explained in the Bhagavad Gita by Lord Krishna. Thus it is more relevant for the present times to study the Bhagavad Gita.

 

(i have not yet found out how to make quotations on this forum)

 

 

You are correct about your comments jndas-maharaj, but isnt Shri Krishna the Jagadguru, then why didnt he mention this mantra in the gita? If this is a foolish question please accept my appologies. The maha mantra isnt mentioned in the gita. If Shri Krishna is the jagadguru and purna avatara, then why is the name of Shri Rama neccesary?

 

Jaya Shri Devi

Winand

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Terminology like "these lower aims" sounds very adharmic to me...

 

 

Dharma (religiousity for gain), artha (acquiring wealth), kama (sense enjoyment) and moksha (liberation from suffering) are lower aims to bhakti or prema. The true goal of life is to attain prema of the Lord, not to desire material sense gratification or other mundane things.

 

The Vedas provide complete knowledge for all people. Those who desire sense enjoyment can also receive guidance from the Vedas and Puranas, but such instructions are not of much interest to true bhaktas.

 

In the Gita Lord Krishna warns Arjuna about this:

 

trai-gunya-vishaya veda

nistraigunyo bhavarjuna

nirdvandvo nitya-sattva-stho

niryoga-kshema atmavan

 

"The Vedas mainly deal with the subject of the three modes of material nature. Rise above these modes, O Arjuna. Be transcendental to all of them. Be free from all dualities and from all anxieties for gain and safety, and be established in the Self."

 

Vedic scriptures deal primarily with mundane matters, but the essence of all such scriptures is transcendental service to the Lord. Those scriptures which speak directly of this service are given more importance than those scriptures which deal with mundane things as well.

 

For example, the numerous stories in the Mahabharata about kings and apsaras, etc., are not focussed on bhagavad-bhakti. They are directed to people whose aim is lower.

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Dharma (that which leads to more harmony in general) Dharma is the path to salvation. Even if you think it is a lower aim ...if you are adharmic you will go further from the God which is the head of Dharma.

 

They arent called "Purusharthas" for nothing, jndas-maharaj.

 

I'm not an expert on sanskrit but i am not sure about your translation. Anyhow..mundane, lower aims, are u a jivan mukta? ..I dont think so.. so you are affected by the gunas so the lower aims "are" the aims..

 

I think "true bhaktas" is a term which can only be verivied by God himself, we can not say what is a true bhakta, or can we?

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jndas-maharaj wrote: "The true goal of "life" is to attain prema of the Lord."

 

The true goal of life is to realize the self, to attain liberation from the cycle of life and death, then one isnt "alife" anymore, then one is a jivan mukta/ chiran jeevi.

 

Sri Adi Shankaracharya preached about the oneness of the jivatma and paramatma. I think merging with the paramatma is the ultimate goal.

 

Jaya Shri Devi

Winand.

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in the "relative" world we have one and many

in the absolute world only one

 

how can the absolute be incomplete?

 

who creates variety.. maya?

how can maya be better than the absolute?

 

if we remain separate we can enjoy together, speak, discuss, be friends etc..

 

if we become one, we obtain only loneliness and sadness

 

not logic...

 

shankaracharya is a necessary step to get out from buddhism that is not only impersonal but also nichilist

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Sri Adi Shankaracharya preached about the oneness of the jivatma and paramatma. I think merging with the paramatma is the ultimate goal.

 

 

In the second chapter of Gita Lord Krishna tells to Arjuna that the soul's individuality is eternal:

 

na tv evaham jatu nasham

na tvam neme janadhipah

na caiva na bhavishyamah

sarve vayam atah param

 

"Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be."

 

Elsewhere in the Gita Lord Krishna reaffirms this fact as follows:

 

mamaivamso jiva-loke

jiva-bhutah sanatanah

 

"The living entities in this conditioned world are eternally My fragmental parts (jiva-bhuta)."

 

Great saints such as Madhva, Ramanuja, Raghavendra, Tukaram, Nimbarka, Vallabha and Chaitanya all taught that the soul's individuality is eternal and that the eternal function of the soul is to render devotional service (bhakti) to the Supreme Lord.

 

Mukti is defined in the Bhagavatam as attaining one's constitutional position, free from the false identification with matter (muktir hitvanyatha rupam svarupena vyavasthitih). That constitutional position of the soul is to render loving service to the Supreme Lord. Those who follow the monistic path become free from the false identification with matter (hitvanyatha rupam) but do not become situated in their constitutional position of service (svarupena vyavasthitih), thus their goal is incomplete. After many, many births, such elevated souls come to the realization that Vasudeva is everything and render devotional service to Him:

 

bahunam janmanam ante

jnanavan mam prapadyate

vasudevah sarvam iti

sa mahatma su-durlabhah

 

"After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare." (Gita 7.19)

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jndas-maharaj wrote:--and that the eternal function of the soul is to render devotional service (bhakti) to the supreme Lord.

 

Eternal function of the soul??????? i tought that they said that "in this time/age" the bhakti marga is the EASIEST.

 

To mix bhakti with jnana is a great thing..do you agree with this?? You probably will say that pure bhakti is the ultimate truth etc etc, but consider someone to have pure bhakti: that someone would then improve if he had some additional jnanam!

 

There is a big difference between what i say and what you say... do you agree maharaj?

 

 

However.. "Bhakti, Karma, Jnana are just means to the same end. Each charts out for us a route towards God. When the highest knowledge dawns on us, the final release is obtained."

 

Jaya Shri Devi

Winand.

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I do not want to move this thread off-topic. I think it will be a good idea to open a thread in Test forum for trying out such HTML coding. There, you can learn how to write HTML code to create <MARQUEE WIDTH="20%">

moving text effect.</MARQUEE>

 

Just start a thread in Test forum for this purpose. I will join that thread.

 

Theist ji,

Do not worry. You will become HTML master. /images/graemlins/smile.gifLet that thread begin.

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Lets perhaps state the result that chanting the names of Krishna AND RAMA ....is just great!

 

 

JayaRaamji-ki

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<font face="monotype corsiva" size=6 color="red"><B>Just chant Hare Krishna <MARQUEE WIDTH="20%">

and your life will be sublime!</MARQUEE></font></B>

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