Not only negative things were said

[livingentity 0]

Some things that are being said on other threads concerning Prabhupada's relations with His Gaudiya Math Godbrothers brought out the research/detective nature in me.

 

I found some references to the "Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust" which I find Prabhupada formed not long before He passed from our material vision.

 

One purpose of this organization was to link up His disciples and followers with His Godbrothers in a cooperating effort.

 

Following are a couple of quotes I found on this subject:

 

"In keeping with the spirit of the previous acarya's vision ofGaudiya-Madhva sampradaya, to cement relations with all the sister temples of Gaudiya-Madhva sampradaya under one banner, to solidify preaching the message of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, as desired by His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada and Srila Thakura Bhaktivinoda and all the previous acaryas in this line." (Room Conversation, Vrindaban, October29, 1977, 771029RC.VRN)

 

Srila Prabhupada did not stop at merely instructing his disciples, but he went so far as to directly involve his own godbrothers, by appointing two of them onto the Trust's five man governing board:

 

Bhavananda: With bookstand. Prabhupada has formed a trust, theBhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust, and its purpose is to developGauda-mandala-bhumi. Prabhupada's one idea is to build this darsana-mandapa at the yoga-pitha. And another is to finish Sridhara Maharaja's darsana-mandapa at his..., like that, to develop the different..., to encourage co-operation between the different Godbrothers in the temples. The members of the trust are myself and Tamala Krsna Maharaja and Giriraja, Svarupa Damodara, myself, Madhava Maharaja and Madhusudana Maharaja.Prabhupada named those members.

Prabhupada: How do you think the idea?

Jayapataka: All of your ideas, Srila Prabhupada, are perfect. I am not someone to offer opinion. But if you ask, I think that actually, especially the yoga-pitha, natha-mandira, that's a very dynamic idea, and in general it must do good.

Prabhupada: We want co-operation.

(Room conversation, Vrndavana, 6 November 1977)

 

Here also is a quote concerning ISKCON funds to be used for building on Gaudiya Math properties and also to help in printing some of their literatures:

 

Tamala Krsna: Yes, I think the general is already covered by thisMayapura-Vrndavana Trust committee. That's for all of India. AndGauda-mandala-bhumi is especially for encouraging the development of Gaudiya Vaisnavism in that area--Sridhara Maharaja's natha-mandira, this Yoga-pitha Bhaktivedanta Hall. Different buildings. Supposing one of your Godbrothers may have written some manuscript, he has no money. We can print some books for him so he can sell them, like that, works within the Mayapura area.

Prabhupada: That we shall fix up, what to spend.

Tamala Krsna: The Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity trustees would fix that up?

Prabhupada: Hm.

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: All right.

 

I am sorry but there was no reference to date and place attached to this quote so there is no way to verify it's validity.

 

We are all well aware of the negative statements about Prabhupada's Godbrothers but there are some positive also. It would be nice to focus on some of the positive for at least one thread.

 

Thank you very much.

Hare Krsna

 

[livingentity 0]

I posted this on another thread but felt it was relevant to this thread also.

"Please accept my humble obeisances at your lotus feet. I understand from the letter of Asita das that he has gone to your place in Jagannatha Puri. He has asked permission from me for taking initiation from you. I have given him my permission and you can initiate him if you like so that he may increase his devotional service there."Letter to: Sripada Madhava Maharaja : 75-01-14 Bombay

 

"If you want to take initiation from Madhava Gosvami Maharaja I have no objection."Letter to: Asita das : 75-01-10 Bombay

 

 

 

[livingentity 0]

"So when we came back to Allahabad, so Ganesa Babu, he introduced me, that "Here is a nice devotee." So Prabhupada immediately replied, "Yes, I have marked him. He does not go away, he hears." This (indistinct), "Yes, I will accept him as disciple." Then I was initiated. In this way our relationship with Gaudiya Matha developed, and gradually as it developed, the other sidediminished. Then, there are long history, it will take time, but I had the opportunity of associating with His Holiness. For several years I had the opportunity. Krsna and Prabhupada liked it to prepare me. Sridhara Maharaja lived as a...

Sridhara Maharaja: (indistinct)

Prabhupada: (laughs) ...in my house, some may say, a few years, so naturally we had very intimate talks and he was my good adviser. I took his advice, his instruction very seriously, because from the very beginning I know he's a pure Vaisnava and devotee, and I wanted to associate with him, and try to help him also in so many ways. He also tried to help me, so our relationship is very intimate. <font color="green">After the breakdown of the Gaudiya Matha, I wanted to organize another organization, making Sridhara Maharaja head." </font color>(Room Conversation, Mayapur, March 17, 1973)

Since Prabhupada does not name an organization let's not speculate as to what He was meaning here.

[yasodanandana 0]

yes this is the future........ maybe it will be difficult, but we have to be unite

 

 

 

http://www.mayapur.info/svga_story.html

 

[gHari 0]

October 19, 1977, Vrindavan:<blockquote>TamAla KRSNa: ...for getting a little more clear purposes of the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust we're developing at GauDa-maNDala-bhUmi. Would you like to hear what we have written?

PrabhupAda: Hm.

SvarUpa DAmodara: "First point: To systematically propagate spiritual knowledge to the residents and the visitors of GauDa-maNDala-bhUmi. Second point: To propagate the consciousness of KRSNa, as it is revealed in Bhagavad-gItA and SrImad-BhAgavatam, and to propagate that Caitanya MahAprabhu is Lord KRSNa Himself, as is revealed in SrI Caitanya-caritAmRta and the Caitanya BhAgavata. 3) To bring all the members of GauDIya-Madhva sampradAya together nearer to Lord Caitanya and thus develop within humanity at large that each soul is a part and parcel of Godhead, KRSNa. 4) To teach and encourage the saGkIrtana movement of congregational chanting of the holy names of God given in the teachings of Lord Caitanya MahAprabhu. 5) To erect temples, schools, colleges, universities, institutes of higher studies, hospitals and other buildings with or for the advancement of the objects of the Trust and to maintain, alter and improve the same, including existing buildings, and to furnish and equip the same. 6) In keeping with the spirit of the previous AcArya's vision of GauDIya-Madhva sampradAya, to cement relations with all the sister temples of GauDIya-Madhva sampradAya under one banner, to solidify preaching the message of Caitanya MahAprabhu, as desired by His Divine Grace SrIla BhaktisiddhAnta SarasvatI PrabhupAda and SrIla ThAkura Bhaktivinoda and all the previous AcAryas in this line. 7) With a view to achieving the aforementioned purposes and to publish and distribute periodicals, magazines, and other books and other items. 8) To do all such other things for the attainment of the objects of the Trust. 9) Trustee members are appointed lifetime. The members should always be seven. 10) A meeting once a year at SrIdhAma MAyApura during Gaura-PUrNimA. 11) There should be a chairman, a treasurer, and a secretary elected each year. 12) A quorum of at least five members." Finishes.

TamAla KRSNa: So these are the points, SrIla PrabhupAda, that we have... We expanded this. Your original simple point was to form a Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity for developing GauDa-maNDala-bhUmi. So we have expanded it into these points if they please Your Divine Grace. We took the ideas mostly from your original points in the..., when you formed the New York corporation, SrIla PrabhupAda. We used those points and just changed them around a little bit. Today that Jagadish, I forget his name, that lawyer from MathurA, he is coming, so I'm going to be meeting with him, and I'll give him these points and see if he can draft a document, proper document. I'd like to get a document done in time so that when we go to MAyApura, and especially at Gaura-PUrNimA, we can have the first meeting. [break]

</blockquote>

[theist 1]

Thank you Living Entity. I had heard of that trust only vaguely. Your post shows Prabhupada's clear heart and intentions in this regard. From very early letters Prabhupada was expressing his desire for this same cooperation as well. It wasn't reciprocated but he held no grudge and his instructions at the end of his life here show the direction he wanted Iskcon to go in for the future.

 

Is this trust still active? What was ever done? Curious.

[gHari 0]

From a letter to Hrsikesa Jan 31/69:<blockquote>So if you are actually serious to take instructions from a siksa guru, I can refer you to one who is most highly competent of all my god-brothers. This is B.R. Sridhara Maharaja, whom I consider to be even my siksa guru, so what to speak of the benefit that you can have from his association. He is living in Navadvipa, and if you like, I can give you letter of introduction as well as I will send him letter to allow you to stay there with him.</blockquote>

[livingentity 0]

gHari! I was looking for that quote. Thank you.

 

The following tells me that although Prabhupada said many things concerning His Godbrothers - He did not give us license to do the same:

 

<font color="blue">"one should respect one's spiritual master's Godbrothers as one respects one's spiritual master."</font color>Adi-lila: Chapter Five, Text 147

[livingentity 0]

Thanks! It appears that the difficulty is due to the fact that some only want to remember and refer to the negative. My theory - as faulty as it might be - is that negative can over-power positive very quickly and we must always be on guard not to be crushed by it's heaviness.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

 

Is this trust still active? What was ever done?

 

 

This trust is still very active. Every year they rebuild dozens of broken down temples belonging to both Gaudiya Matha and other "traditional" Gaudiya groups, especially sites connected with the Lord's pastimes. They do this as a service, and have no connection with the running or management of the temples.

[gHari 0]

<blockquote>SrIdhara Maharaja: First appearance of Back to Godhead (indistinct).

PrabhupAda: Yes, 1944. I think you were at that time at my house. Yes. So, somehow or other, this intention for preaching the cult of Caitanya MahAprabhu increased and the other side decreased. Viraktir anyatra syAt. But I was not disinclined, but KRSNa forced me that you must give up. (chuckles) And these thing is known better to SrIdhara Maharaja, how it decreased, decreased, decreased, then almost it become nil, and then I left home in 1950.</blockquote>

I read a conversation between these two swan-like saints and was reduced to tears as I saw how Srila Prabhupada so enjoyed Srila Sridhara's company. Someone, at last, to talk to. They finished each others' sentences, laughed, and were at home again. It was so wonderful that Prabhupada could have had someone to really talk with. After that, I no longer bought into the then current controversies. In fact, I don't think I buy into any controversies now.

 

Yasodanandana is right; let's put this show on the road again.

 

Jaya Nityananda! Jaya Sacinanda!

 

Lord Hari on tour!<center><img src=http://home.primus.ca/~caitanya/a1.jpg></center>

[Govindaram 1]

Hare Krishna

 

It is so easy to criticise people, so easy, you have to find your own faults, otherwise you are just a neophyte devotee going around criticising, so what advancement can you possibly expect to make.

 

 

[theist 1]

Thanks JNdas

 

 

This trust is still very active. Every year the rebuild dozens of broken down temples belonging to both Gaudiya Matha and other "traditional" Gaudiya groups, especially sites connected with the Lord's pastimes. They do this as a service, and have no connection with the running or management of the temples.

 

 

I have never heard this was happening. Of course I am such a fringe character that it doesn't surprise me.

 

But it appears that they have been working in a quite way not advertising their service. What a nice example.

 

 

[livingentity 0]

Yes, it is much easier to critize others than to take an honest look in the mirror at yourself.

[yasodanandana 0]

yes ,,, over is not so good in every direction

 

and the other problems is in the BLOCKS

 

gaudya math is not a monolithe facing iskcon, is a tree with many branches, some maths (iskcon also is a math) will collaborate very easy, some others will do it only on the plane of harinama sankirtana

 

friendship, as ever, is a difficult art

 

very easy and natural

 

first let us state the principle that unity is good, then we will find the way caring not to be excessive

 

but we have to do it, this war is a tremendous source of vaishnava aparadha...

 

 

SURELY WE CAN START WITH HARINAMA SAMKIRTANA

 

surely, in this forum, we are already united by krsna katha and the love for srila prabhupada

 

(jagad guru means ... guru of the world... me included)

[yasodanandana 0]

yes ,,, over is not so good in every direction

 

and the other problems is in the BLOCKS

 

gaudya math is not a monolithe facing iskcon, is a tree with many branches, some maths (iskcon also is a math) will collaborate very easy, some others will do it only on the plane of harinama sankirtana

 

friendship, as ever, is a difficult art

 

very easy and natural

 

first let us state the principle that unity is good, then we will find the way caring not to be excessive

 

but we have to do it, this war is a tremendous source of vaishnava aparadha...

 

[livingentity 0]

"Those, whose judgement is made of mundane stuff, being unable to enter into the spirit of the <font color="blue">all-loving controversies among pure devotees, </font color>due to their own want of unalloyed devotion, are apt to impute to the devotees their own defects of partisanship and opposing views."

 

[livingentity 0]

Are we truly qualified to inject a type of "Hatfield and McCoy" attitude for decades based on our faulty concept of what the relationship was between Prabhupada and His Godbrothers? Are we so pure that we can understand the dynamics of such a relationship between pure devotees?

 

 

[Krsnanatha 0]

I see this thread and I feel very happy. These types of disclosures have historically been in short supply and as a result, aparadhas towards the best of Vaisnavas continue to be committed knowingly and unknowingly daily.

I was very fortunate to hear from Srila Govinda Maharaja a very sweet history of Srila Prabhupada, Srila Sridhar Dev-Goswami and Srila Govinda Maharaja when he was but a young man in his teens.

Unfortunately I am short for time now and it will require a bit of time to properly retell.

Take my word it is a very charming story!

Coming soon.

[livingentity 0]

"The disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami are all godbrothers, and although there are some differences of opinion and we are not acting conjointly, every one of us is spreading this Krsna consciousness movement according to his capacity and producing many disciples to spread it all over the world." ( Bhag. 4.28.31)

 

[Govindaram 1]

Hare Krishna

 

Srila Prabhupada said don't mix with ceratin godbrothers, so should'nt everyone be adhereing to his rules.

[livingentity 0]

but you can discuss that on Guruvani's thread. As said earlier in this thread - Prabhupada did not always speak negative about His Godbrother's and that is the aspect this thread is built on. You see that is not the only thing that Prabhupada said concerning His Godbrothers but it seems to be the only thing that anyone concentrates on. Please read some of the previous posts in this thread to see some of the other quotes from Prabhupada.

[Mxyzptlk 0]

The supposed rift between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Bon Maharaja was based upon, from my understanding, a comment Bon Maharaja made while speaking to Prabhupada's disciples, wherein he referred to them as "hippies." I'm sure it was taken out of context, as he most likely intended to say "former hippies". Regardless, Srila Prabhupada was very displeased with these words from his Godbrother. However, in the end, he apologized to all his Godbrothers for any unkind words he said, and mentioned that he only did it for the sake of preaching.

 

Also, every year Sri Caitanya Saraswata Math puts out a pictured calendar of Vaisnava dates. Srila Hrdaya Bon Maharaja is pictured with his appearance and disappearance days; and it is even more wonderful to see Srila Krsnadasa Babaji Maharaja also listed. And Srila Bhakti Pramoda Puri Maharaja also. So, if Srila Sridhara Maharaja considers Srila Bon Maharaja to be a bona fide Vaishnava, such that his picture and appearance/disappearance days are mentioned, and if Srila Prabhupada considered Srila Sridhara Maharaja to be his siksa Guru, then perhaps we have no business perpetuating the brief so-called "feud" which existed between Srila Bon Maharaja and Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

As far Srila Madhava Maharaja, in Srila Prabhupada's last days, he appointed Madhava Maharaja as a trustee on the Bhaktivedanta Charity Trust. Clearly, any temporary "apparent" rift between the two had been resolved.

 

"Prabhupada has formed a trust, the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust, and its purpose is to develop Gauda-mandala-bhumi. Prabhupada's one idea is to build this darsana-mandapa at the yoga-pitha. And another is to finish Sridhara Maharaja's darsana-mandapa at his..., like that, to develop the different..., to encourage co-operation between the different Godbrothers in the temples. The members of the trust are myself and Tamala Krsna Maharaja and Giriraja, Svarupa Damodara, myself, Madhava Maharaja and Madhusudana Maharaja. Prabhupada named those members. Prabhupada: How do you think the idea? Jayapataka: All of your ideas, Srila Prabhupada, are perfect. I am not someone to offer opinion. But if you ask, I think that actually, especially the yoga-pitha, natha-mandira, that's a very dynamic idea, and in general it must do good. Prabhupada: We want co-operation. (Room conversation, Vrndavana, 6 November 1977)

 

A couple of quotes worthy of consideration; the first by Srila Prabhupada, the second by Srila Bhaktisiddanta Saraswati Thakur:

 

"Among Vaisnavas there may be some difference of opinion due to everyone's personal identity, but despite all personal differences, the cult of Krsna consciousness must go on. We can see that under the instructions of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja began preaching the Krsna consciousness movement in an organized way within the past hundred years. The disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja are all Godbrothers, and although there are some differences of opinion, and although we are not acting conjointly, every one of us is spreading this Krsna consciousness movement according to his own capacity and producing many disciples to spread it all over the world." Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twenty-eight, Text 31

 

"Those, whose judgement is made of mundane stuff, being unable to enter into the spirit of the all-loving controversies among pure devotees, due to their own want of unalloyed devotion, are apt to impute to the devotees their own defects of partisanship and opposing views." Sri Brahma samhita p.72

 

The bottom line is, as Yasodanandana prabhu has pointed out repeatedly, that one of the pillars of the post-samadhi ritvik system is the nonstop blasphemy of Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers and all others affiliated with the Gaudiya Math. Of course, if one of them were to suddenly endorse the Post-samadhi ritvik idea, then that person would be used (although not followed as a siksa guru) to prop up the PS ritvik system.

 

Another point to consider is that Srila Prabhupada was/is non-sectarian, and said as much in so many places. Ritviks like to take these quotes out of their time and place context and make it appear that Srila Prabhupada was indeed sectarian. I seriously doubt that Srila Prabhupada would want his followers to misprepresent him that he was inimical, even blasphemous towards his Godbrothers. (Which he wasn't.) Srila Prabhupada taught us not to criticize or blaspheme Vaishnavas. He may have had some temporary differences with some of his Godbrothers, but clearly he loved and respected them.

 

I also agree with Theist when he said recently that if Srila Prabhupada had not come alone to the West, if he had come with a delegation of other Vaishnavas, then we probably would never know the full extent of the power of a single pure Vaishnava to transform the shape of the world, and indeed, the hearts of innumerable mlecchas in the West. Now that we know what a pure Vaishnava is capable of, let us welcome other pure Vaishnavas to assist us and carry on the Sankirtan Movement, no matter their party affiliation. Srila Prabhupada blazed a trail to the West for others to follow. As Theist also pointed out, it was 30 years before Srila Prabhupada came to the West after Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's initial order. "A lifetime in preparation", as it has been written. Although he requested assistance, (and he did receive some assistance), for the most part it would have been impractical for disciples of other Gurus to suddenly drop their service (and no, they weren't "ringing bells", they were actively preaching and engaging in intense bhajana) and join him. Srila Prabhupada is an extraordinary soul. But that doesn't mean that those who didn't join him at the time of his request were neophytes who were forever doomed to endure the ninda of Prabhupada's disciples. Personally, I welcome those great souls who are now coming to the West, even if it took them 30 years to prepare (just as it took Srila Prabhupada.)

 

Vancha kalpa tarubhyas ca....

[theist 1]

>>The bottom line is, as Yasodanandana prabhu has pointed out repeatedly, that one of the pillars of the post-samadhi ritvik system is the nonstop blasphemy of Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers and all others affiliated with the Gaudiya Math. Of course, if one of them were to suddenly endorse the Post-samadhi ritvik idea, then that person would be used (although not followed as a siksa guru) to prop up the PS ritvik system.<<

 

This is the crux of the problem for me and my little life. My natural inclination would be to join with others in focusing on what Prabhupada has given in his books and tapes. But I can't and won't as long as that nectar is poisoned with lethal drops of vaisnava aparadha,spoken or even unspoken, I can feel it even if its just left hanging in the air. It poisons the subtle atsmosphere.

 

Prabhupada vani doesnot include speaking trash about other vaisnavas.

 

 

 

 

[yasodanandana 0]

Mxyzptyk: "The bottom line is, as Yasodanandana prabhu has pointed out repeatedly, that one of the pillars of the post-samadhi ritvik system is the nonstop blasphemy of Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers and all others affiliated with the Gaudiya Math. Of course, if one of them were to suddenly endorse the Post-samadhi ritvik idea, then that person would be used (although not followed as a siksa guru) to prop up the PS ritvik system."

 

the enemies of bona fide gurus and devotees are:

 

1)bogus gurus who have fear of the comparison, they keep their disciples away from pure devotees otherwise, very easily, they'd leave and join the real thing

2)who say that parampara is interrupted and there's no more pure devotee to take shelter from

3)religious bureaucracy who have fear that the "necessary" revolution that comes with pure devotees will put in danger his routinary but sure "job"

4)every one who does not accept that the SADHU cuts his material attachments (this is the meaning of sadhu word)

 

history is repeating (shirley bassey) /images/graemlins/smile.gif