Rtvik Philosophy is Covered Impersonalism

[Sudama 0]

"The separated energy can be understood from a practical example. I compose books by speaking into a dictaphone, and whenthe dictaphone is replayed, it appears that I am speaking personally, but actually I am not. I spoke personally, but then the dictaphone tape, which is separate from me, acts exactly like me."

 

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Because the tape is EXACTLY the same as hearing from Prabhupada directly, he authorized the use of a tape for gayatri initiations:

 

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"I will send you one tape made by me of Gayatri mantra. They should simply listen one at a time, privately, through the right ear and at the same time repeat each mantra, while reading it from one paper. You can also explain beforehand how to count on the fingers. Then, if the devotee is male, give the sacred thread. Then hold a fire yajna as you have seen done before. Send the thread here to me before the ceremony is to be held and I will chant Gayatri mantra on the thread(s) personally."

[AncientMariner 0]

 

 

 

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 1 Chapter 2 text 18

 

 

"By regular attendance in classes on the Bhagavatam and by rendering of service to the pure devotee, all that is troublesome to the heart is almost completely destroyed, and loving service unto the Personality of Godhead, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact."

 

 

Purport

 

"Here is the remedy for eliminating all inauspicious things within the heart which are considered to be obstacles in the path of self-realization. The remedy is the association of the Bhagavatas. There are two types of Bhagavatas, namely the book Bhagavata and the devotee Bhagavata. Both the Bhagavatas are competent remedies, and both of them or either of them can be good enough to eliminate the obstacles. A devotee Bhagavata is as good as the book Bhagavata because the devotee Bhagavata leads his life in terms of the book Bhagavata and the book Bhagavata is full of information about the Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees, who are also Bhagavatas. Bhagavata book and person are identical."

[Guruvani 0]

From the above quote we must also conclude that the person Bhagavat must also be as good as the book Bhagavat which is "SPOTLESS". If any guru is spotless then he is as good as the book Bhagavat - the AMALA-PURANA (spotless purana).

 

Nowadays we see that so-called Vaishnavas and gurus who have a history of offending great acharyas like Sridhar Maharaja and Srila Prabhupada (though they claim to be followers of both) are being passed off as "RASIK ACHARYAS" who are as good as the book Bhagavata when in fact they commit offenses on the level of neophytes or even demons.

 

Sure, a person Bhagavat is as good as the book Bhagavat, but to find a person that is really a Bhagavat by qualification and not by so much unqualified praise by foolish neophyte followers is the real problem.

 

Bhagavats are not established by the majority vote of a bunch of neophyte followers. A person Bhagavat is qualified by a spotless character. Committing offenses to great acharyas is hardly the sign of a Bhagavat.

 

It is very difficult to find a living Bhagavat, but the book Bhagavat of Srila Prabhuapada is available anywhere in the world. One can mail-order the book Bhagavat from anywhere and rest-assured that he won't be misled. Getting involved with a false person Bhagavat is just going to result in so much waste of time trying to get absolute truth from a cheater.

[Guest guest]

"One can mail-order the book Bhagavat from anywhere and rest-assured that he won't be misled"

 

but he will not understand it without a guidance of a Bhagavat person

 

why srila prabhupada, instead of coming in person from the spiritual world, has not simply sended some books with UPS?

 

(the joke is only apparent)

[Guest guest]

no you are not wrong, but guru, shastra and sadhu have to work in conjunction

 

the example is that you have said about five very basic principles of spiritual life, not very esotheric things, and you can find, among devotees who claims to be srila prabhupada's followers, so many interpretation on what is follow these principles

 

so books are not enough

 

we can say also that the principles are not for everyone, we need a spiritual master to help us to understand if we can follow the regulative principles (especially the "3") in an armonic way without repression... maybe we can also hear that we are not fit for initiation

 

also in these basic things, a lot of problem are there if we do with book only

 

i repeat it... if there was no need of a MAN... why srila prabhupada has come? books (bhagavad gita, bhagavatam, c, charitamrita, bh rasamrita sindhu) were already in this world... a simple clerk translating them in english would have been enough!!!

[AncientMariner 0]

 

 

 

Was that when you are associating with Srila Prabhupada's books it is no different than associating with Him if you are doing it in the mood of devotional service. Sure a demonic person can misunderstand His books but that person is not following His books anyways because Srila Prabhupada says in His books that they can only be understood in a spirit of devotion. Srila Prabhupada is right there in His books. He is my guru, I need look no further but whatever works for you my friend.

[AncientMariner 0]

 

 

 

You summed it up perfectly why I choose Srila Prabhupada as my guru. Too many cheaters out there and when you have found the real deal like Srila Prabhupada that is a rare find.

[Guest guest]

it ends with personal association.. the pure devotee gives you personal instructions and the possibility to understand (= i.e. he "share", partially or entirely, the "darshan" of sri radha and krsna)

 

"Please explain for me the difference between hearing a pure devotee on a tape and hearing him over a loudspeaker while you are in the kitchen"

 

hearing a tape or the direct voice of a devotee is the same thing... what changes is the possibility to make questions and receive exactly the answer in krsna consciousness that is exactly fit for us, not for others and not for a general application

 

arjuna in bhagavad gita shows clearly to be well versed in spiritual/moral consciousness... he has surely studied all vedas... but krsna, as a spiritual master chooses for him, from the infinite ways proposed by shastra, the particular path for him and him only

 

of course we can take out general and universal instructions from bhagavad gita... but there is also a part for arjuna... every one of us has his special way to do is "sarva dharma..."!!!

 

it seems a paradox, but arjuna was initiallly taking as sinful the behaviour that the spiritual master (krsna) will teach to him in the proceding of the teachings!!

 

so how we can say that the instruction given by prabhupada to a devotee or given in another combination of time, place and circumstance is good for a different person (us) and different conditions of life?

 

everything has to be adjusted one by one

 

so, spiritual masters are not sold at the shop, neither they are done by simply an election from an organization... but we need them to complete the scene.... SADHU (tradition), SHASTRA (books)...... GURU

 

i am humbly saying this well aware of the great difficulty to find an uttama adhikari to elect as our spiritual master

[theist 1]

OK we all need the person Bhagavat to help us understand the book Bhagavat. No problem with that. That is why Srila Prabhupada wrote so many purports and Krsna saw to it that there are so many lectures on the verses as well.

 

So how to understand the purports correctly? SUPERSOUL!!! as well as more advanced practioners. It is revealed knowledge. According to our sincere desire Krsna will reveal Himself.

 

I can't figure out what planet some of you guys appear to be living on sometimes. I don't find the BASICS of Krsna consciousness practice to be difficult to understand at all. My only problem is one of sincere desire to know Krsna.

 

There seems to be a concerted effort to relegate Prabhupada to the past and in an out of reach position. I find that proposal offensive no matter how its packaged.

[Guest guest]

"Well who's going to help you delve into the nectar of X Maharaj's books when he's gone? Will that be your job?"

 

very simple, in our tradition a devotee never lives without a personal, phisical guidance... he finds another siksa uttama adhikari as good as his diksa spiritual master and continues executing devotional service under his guidance

 

there's plenty of behaviours like that in all gaudya vaishnava history... the devotees you have met did not answer to a very easy question

 

a living spiritual master has to be there..

 

prabhupada was saying that sridhara maharaja was his siksha guru, and siksa has to be pure as the diksa, exactly like the guru of sri guruvastakam

 

surely it is very sad that soe fanatics are destroying the principle of the living guru using their as a weapon for fulfilling their material desires of fame and distinction

[Guest guest]

"because I have always served my Guru Maharaja and followed His teachings I

am now even never separated from Him"

 

an uttama lives in the same plane of existence of another uttama, comunicates and reciprocates

 

can we say the same for us?

 

i surely say that for my dullness and for beeing completely conditioned by material energy, the fact that srila prabhupada is living, for my particular condition, works like an abstract theory (even if i can understand that srila prabhupada and "dead" are words that cannot stay together!!)

 

if i could communicate with srila prabhupada exactly like devotees were doing before his disappearance, why not with bhaktisiddhanta, bhaktivinoda, vyasadeva.... or krsna.. ? they are living on the same plane of existence with srila prabhupada!!

 

 

[Guest guest]

"Sure a demonic person can misunderstand His books"

 

 

what kind of people is now in planet earth?

 

demonic!!

 

and the rascal/demons misunderstand very easily even if they have a little desire to be vaishnavas!!

 

demon means one who is not in the complete sattvaguna plane... many aspiring devotees (surely me) reading prabhupada books are are in this condition!!!

[Guest guest]

"There seems to be a concerted effort to relegate Prabhupada to the past "

 

there seems also to be a concerted effort to treat srila prabhupada as a legend or a myth who will give initiation (without accepting directly) to people for the times coming

 

bhaktisiddhanta is not relegated in the past by srila prabhupada.... he is projected in the future!!

 

the same thing for srila prabhupada if he is followed by proper successors

[theist 1]

Paramahaàsa: There’s a verse in the Bhägavatam that says that one moment’s association with a pure devotee is greater than liberation from the material world or than innumerable...

Prabhupäda: Yes.

Paramahaàsa: ...years of enjoyment on heavenly planets.

 

Prabhupäda: Yes.

 

Paramahaàsa: My question is: A pure devotee, when he comments Bhagavad-gétä, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with his commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?

 

Prabhupäda: Yes. You can associate with Krsna by reading Bhagavad-gétä. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty? Everyone is helping you.

 

Some of you may not accept this. That is your right. But many do accept Prabhupad's clear meaning here. And that doesn't make us ritvik proponents either. I don't need to take this to X Maharaja to get his explanation.

[Guruvani 0]

It's always good to keep in mind that imitating Prabhupada is not following him. Following Prabhupada is something completely different than imitating him.

Hasn't there been enough scandal and controversy surrounding so many so-called successors who turned out to be pedophiles and madmen? We have good reason to never accept another one of these imitators ever again.

 

Prabhupada said that when he is gone everything will be done by his books. He repeated that over and over again. He never said we needed any so-called sadhu who interferes with his movement or anything else. He said after he is gone everything will be done by his books. He said everything he has to say has been said in his books. We don't need to be in his presence to bother him with stupid foolish questions like I have heard being asked of some so-called sadhu who goes all over the world initiating anybody that walks in the room.

[Guest guest]

if imitation is not following.... it seems that for you the meaning of the word guru, after srila prabhupada, has become "cheater", "pedophile" and so on

 

you may be surely right, but you defend your idea with speculations and world jugglery

 

you are preaching a path of purity and spiritual advancement saying at the same time that in this world pure and advanced persons 8disciples and masters) do not exist

 

so what would be the hope for the future, and what will be the use to follow srila prabhupada if these qualities are not to be achieved?

[stonehearted 0]

Guest: if imitation is not following.... it seems that for you the meaning of the word guru, after srila prabhupada, has become "cheater", "pedophile" and so on

 

Now, that's just not fair. You're putting him in the same category as Puranjana. He's not. Take it easy, okay?

 

And (Oh, boy, we've been through this over and over again), if you're going to post using such strong language, why not shed your anonymity?

[Guest guest]

a) are you sure to have read the message that i am answering? i am a daisy flower in comparison (and i am using words said by guruvani)

 

b) the use of many people of this forum is to attack people using things said before and other personal considerations(your pedophile guru, you indian, your so called gaudya math guru, you something, you something else)... i like to say something about krsna consciousness but, for my false ego and not to be the cause of offences for devotees (not me, others that i would maybe mention in a message) i like more to remain anonimous and not to be cathegorized (thing that i avoid to do with others)..

 

if the rules of this forum will change, i will consider to register or not partecipate

[Guest guest]

I want to meet someone like Srila Prabhupada.

 

The rtviks prohibit this ever happening for the next 10,000 years ?

[Guest guest]

so what's the use of srila prabhupada?

 

read verses and comment yourself

 

prabhupada repeats krsna words and message

 

so read directly krsna's message

 

:-)

 

if you do not think to need a guru to link to the previous acharyas, you act as a rirvik even if you do not want to

[Guest guest]

this is forbidden or it is an obsolete use of a strange organization called gaudya math entangled in induism

 

but, if you find a pure devotee, bonafide guru and you follow him accurately, you will do the required avancement to be born, in the next life, in a guru-less movement and go to krsna and prabhupada without such obsolete things like gurus and sadhus (=parampara)

 

is it not nice?

 

harekrsna!!!!

[Guest guest]

Excuse me guest above, but whatever you were attempting to say in your last post madkes no sense to me.

 

I'll post this again and you can take it to x maharaja and he can give you an explanation which of course you will then have to take his words to another X maharaja for clarification and on and on ad infinitum. Have fun.

 

here it is:

Paramahaàsa: There’s a verse in the Bhägavatam that says that one moment’s association with a pure devotee is greater than liberation from the material world or than innumerable...

 

Prabhupäda: Yes.

 

Paramahaàsa: ...years of enjoyment on heavenly planets.

 

Prabhupäda: Yes.

 

Paramahaàsa: My question is: A pure devotee, when he comments Bhagavad-gétä, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with his commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?

 

Prabhupäda: Yes. You can associate with Krsna by reading Bhagavad-gétä. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty? Everyone is helping you.

 

--------------------------

 

Some of you may not accept this. That is your right. But many do accept Prabhupad's clear meaning here. And that doesn't make us ritvik proponents either. I don't need to take this to X Maharaja to get his explanation.

 

[Bhaktavasya 0]

There is a pattern over the years of individuals on one hand promoting Prabhupad as the only Guru for all mankind and then with the other hand never fail to remind the public of the worst sins of his disciples, as Guruvani has done.

 

(No, Guruvani, guru is not synonomous with cheater and pedophile 'in the minds of most people these days'unless they've been talking with you.

If Prabhupad had such a bad success rate, according to your estimation, then, as guest said, what hope is there for the anyone now and in the future who reads his books if all who heard before apparently failed so miserably?)

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

"Paramahaàsa: My question is: A pure devotee, when he comments Bhagavad-gétä, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with his commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?

Prabhupäda: Yes. You can associate with Krsna by reading Bhagavad-gétä. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty? Everyone is helping you."

 

Paramahamsa Prabhu was associating to Xmaharaja (=Srila Prabhupada) giving in that time , place and circumstance this particular advice

 

some other times srila prabhupada said different things about this subject for different persons

 

and if we think about it, what is exaclty doing Paramahamsa prabhu?

 

he is reading Scriptures (sastra), under the guidance of Srila Prabhupada (guru) who is saying that these saintly persons (sadhu) will help

 

i do not think that Paramahamsa Prabhu could read any letter of shastras or receive the help of previous acharyas without the help of srila prabhupada!

 

can you imagine prabhu answering "well, srila prabhupada, if scriptures speak for themselves and the saintly persons are there, what is the use of following you?.. good bye prabhupada!!"

 

guru, shastra , sadhu

 

i know wery well what is now happening in the organization(s) and i am not suggesting to go to a X or Y maharaja to take diksa or whatever.... but let us not forget the principles even if it is very difficult to apply them

[theist 1]

Guest, I find you explanation of that clear conversation tortured at best. Better not to comment on it. It is self-effulgent as it is. If you can't tell what it means then perhaps take some more English classes. If the problem persists then take it to X Maharaja.