Gospel Defense League

[GospelDefense 0]

(The Gospel Defense League)

 

http://invisionfree.com/forums/Mike_Monroe/index.php

 

 

Jesus said,"I am the way, the Truth and The Life. Call me narrow minded but that's ok. I have created a place where we can discuss Jesus Christ in a spirit of love and respect. I believe that there is only one way to know God and this is through Jesus Christ. I will showm and explain the historical accuracy of the resurection and evidence that Jesus was exactly who he and His followers said He was. I you question what I am saying to be true, please stop by and we can discussm it further. I am also open to studying and discussing other religions in light of the Christain faith. Peace and Shalom to you all!

[Guest guest]

O alas Dear Lord Krishna you can make the heart steady so that a soul can dedicate himself to his chosen way of religion.o Krishna, so wonderous are your ways for the salvation of all souls who approach you with sincere feeling. Hare Krishna.

[GospelDefense 0]

Jesus I thank you that in you all things on heaven and earth are sustained and held together.(Colossians 1:16-18)

Lord Jesus I thank you that you are love (1 John 4:7)

Jesus I praise you that you did not come to call the righteous but the sick. You came for the lost sheep and none who you have chosen before the beginning of the world shall be lost. Father I praise you for these seekers because they are open to finding you. God by the power of your Holy Spirit (John 16) draw those who would hear your voice to yourself. This can only be your work because our words are not effective without your Holy Spirit. Bring the Elect from the for corners of the earth for you said in your word the end would come when the full number of Jew and Gentile come in (Romans 11:25)

And Father lastly forgive your church for being a poor witness on earth of your love and a stumbling block to those who need to know you. I pray this in Christ's name Amen

[Guest guest]

In August of 1965, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami (later known to his followers as Srila Prabhupada) boarded a cargo ship in Calcutta, India bound for New York City. On board, the swami, aged 70, suffered two heart attacks. Despite poor health and austere living conditions on the ship, Srila Prabhupada continued his journey, dedicated to fulfilling the order of his spiritual master, given some fifty years prior, to present the teachings of Krishna consciousness to people in the West.

 

On September 17, thirty-six days after leaving India, the ship docked at Boston's Commonwealth Pier (today, the site of the World Trade Center). The ship's captain took Srila Prabhupada on a brief walking tour of the city. He had come to America with one suitcase, a bag of cereal, seven dollars, an umbrella and a crate of books he had translated and published. He had no institutional support and only a two-month sponsorship from a relative of an acquaintance in India.

 

The following day, while still docked in Boston Harbor, Srila Prabhupada wrote a poem in Bengali entitled Markine Bhagavata-dharma. It is an evocative prayer of a genuine saint asking the Lord to empower him to do the Lord's bidding.

 

My dear Lord Krishna, You are so kind upon this useless soul, but I do not know why You have brought me here. Now You can do whatever You like with me.

 

But I guess You must have some business here, otherwise why would You bring me to this terrible place?

 

Most of the population here is covered by the material modes of ignorance and passion. Absorbed in material life, they think themselves very happy and satisfied, and therefore they have no taste for the transcendental message of Vasudeva. I do not know how they will be able to understand it.

 

But I know Your causeless mercy can make everything possible because You are the most expert mystic.

 

How will they understand the mellows of devotional service? O Lord, I am simply praying for Your mercy so that I will be able to convince them about Your message.

 

All living entities have come under the control of the illusory energy by Your will, and therefore, if You like, by Your will they can also be released from the clutches of illusion.

 

I wish that You may deliver them. Therefore, if You so desire their deliverance, then only will they be able to understand Your message.

 

The words of Srimad-Bhagavatam are Your incarnation, and if a sober person repeatedly receives it with submissive aural reception, then he will be able to understand Your message…

 

How will I make them understand this message of Krishna consciousness? I am very unfortunate, unqualified and the most fallen. Therefore I am seeking Your benediction so that I can convince them, for I am powerless to do so on my own.

 

Somehow or other, O Lord, You have brought me here to speak about You. Now my Lord, it is up to You to make me a success or failure as You like.

 

O spiritual master of all the worlds! I can simply repeat Your message, so if You like You can make my power of speaking suitable for their understanding.

 

Only by Your causeless mercy will my words become pure. I am sure that when this transcendental message penetrates their hearts they will certainly feel engladdened and thus become liberated from all unhappy conditions of life.

 

O Lord, I am just like a puppet in Your hands. So if You have brought me here to dance, then make me dance, make me dance, O Lord, make me dance as You like.

 

I have no devotion, nor do I have any knowledge, but I have strong faith in the holy name of Krishna. I have been designated as Bhaktivedanta, and now, if You like, You can fulfill the real purport of Bhaktivedanta.

 

Signed - the most unfortunate, insignificant beggar

 

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

on board the ship Jaladuta, Commonwealth Pier

Boston, Massachusetts, U.S.A.

dated 18th of September, 1965

 

[Narayanidd 1]

My dear spirit souls,

 

WOW! Srila Prabhupada was no doubt a great soul! He most certainly proved the purport of Bhaktivedanta!

 

Whether one is a follower of his teachings or not it can't be denied that Srila Prabhupada was a great soul. He lived by what he taught and in no way was ever false to his Lord!

 

I would not be alive today were it not for him. He has changed so many lives.

 

The devotion he displays in his beautiful song is palpable!

 

Your servant,

Narayani

[raga 0]

Praise unto all born-again Christian crusaders.

[Guest guest]

That is why they are called born again?

[theist 1]

O' Dear Lord Jesus Christ' we have so little of your recorded statements with us, yet you continue to inspire many still by the sheer power of your presence from when you graced this Earth by placing your lotus-like feet upon her soil.

 

You told us that you had many other things to tell us but we were not ready to receive them at that time. Please by the agency of your Holy Spirit reveal to us your ever continuing revelation into the nature of the Father, your good self and even of our trueselves in relation to He who dwells within the heart of all.

 

Please strengthen us that we may follow your instruction to pick up our own individual crosses and follow you. May we be freed from any sectarian conceptions fostered by mundane religion so that we may perceive the Supreme Father who dwells within and without and everywhere as David prayed.

 

We ask not for mere salvation, we pray for full fledged love of God like unto the love for the Father that yourself did display for Him in accepting His direction to try and rescue us, the fallen, from our own wayward journey into the lands of darkness.

 

Unto you we offer our service and praise and through your glorified name may we praise in truth the name of the Father.

 

Amen and Om Tat Sat

[theist 1]

>>That is why they are called born again? <<

 

No.Jesus was not refering to reincarnation when he told Nicodemus that he must be born again. He was speaking of spiritual birth into the Kingdom of God.

[GospelDefense 0]

raga,

 

I am sorry that there ever were crusdaers on the earth. the catholic church was in grave error and those who led the crusades will face the judgement because they have stifled many peoples faith in the gospel. Paul says in romans that we are not to re-pay evil for evil and that is a command that mnay have ignored. If you would like though to talk more about christ I would love to discuss the faith with you.

 

http://invisionfree.com/forums/Mike_Monroe/index.php

[Guest guest]

O LOrd Krishna Who art in Golok Vrindavan,Is there anything that is separate from your unique lovliness.You are attracting the hearts of the most pure souls by the sweet playing of your flute.You call us all to join you in eternal loving pastimes.I offer you my most humble obeisances at your lotus feet.

[Guest guest]

The sixty-second Appearance Day of Prabhupad Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur

 

by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupad

 

Adore adore ye all The happy day,

Blessed than heaven, Sweeter than May,

When he appeared at Puri The holy place,

My Lord and Master His Divine Grace.

 

Oh! my Master The evangelic angel,

Give us Thy light, Light up Thy candle.

Struggle for existence A human race.

The only hope His Divine Grace.

 

Misled we are All going astray.

Save us Lord Our fervent pray.

Wonder Thy ways To turn our face.

Adore Thy feet Your Divine Grace.

 

Forgotten Krishna We fallen souls,

Paying most heavy The illusion's toll.

Darkness around All untrace.

The only hope His Divine Grace.

 

Message of service Thou hast brought.

A healthful life As Chaitanya wrought.

Unknown to all It's full of brace.

That's your gift Your Divine Grace.

 

Absolute is sentient Thou hast proved,

Impersonal calamity Thou hast moved.

This gives us a life Anew and fresh.

Worship Thy feet Your Divine Grace.

 

Had you not come Who had told

The message of Krishna Forceful and bold.

That's your right. You have the mace.

Save me a fallen Your Divine Grace.

 

The line of service As drawn by you

Is pleasing and healthy Like morning dew.

The oldest of all But in new dress.

Miracle done Your Divine Grace.

 

Abhay Charan das

 

-----------------

 

Vaisnava Ke?"Who is a Real Vaisnava?"

 

by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura

 

dusta mana! tumi kiser vaisnava?

pratisthar tare, nirjaner ghare,

tava hari nama' kevala kaitava'

 

1) O wicked mind! What kind of Vaisnava do you think you are? Your pretentious show of chanting Lord Hari's holy name in a solitary place is only for the sake of attaining the false prestige of a worldly reputationit is nothing but pure hypocrisy.

 

ader pratistha, sukarer vistha,

jano na ki taha mayar vaibhava'

kanaka kamini, divasa-yamini,

bhaviya ki kaja, anitya se saba

 

2) Such materialistic prestige is as disgusting as the stool of a hog. Do you not know that it is only a mere illusion cast by the potency of Maya? What is the value of contemplating day and night your plans for enjoying wealth and women? All these things are only temporary.

 

tomr kanaka, bhoger janaka,

kanaker dvare sevaho madhava'

kaminir kama, nahe tava dhama,

taharmalika kevala yadava'

 

3) When you claim wealth as your own, it creates in you ever-increasing desires for material enjoyment. Your riches should be used for serving Madhava, the Lord of all wealth. Neither is it your proper place to indulge in lust for women, whose only true proprietor is Lord Yadava.

 

pratisthasa-taru, jada-maya-maru,

na pela ravana' yujhiy raghava'

vaisnavi pratistha, tate koro nistha,

taha na bhajile labhibe raurava

 

4) The demon Ravana (lust-incarnate) fought with Lord Ramachandra (love-incarnate) in order to gain the tree of worldly reputationbut that oasis turned out to be but a mirage cast in the desert wasteland of the Lord's illusory material potency. Please cultivate fixed determination to attain only the steady and solid platform whereupon a Vaisnava ever stands. If you neglect worshiping the Lord from this position, then you will ultimately attain a hellish existence.

 

harijana-dvea, pratisthasa-klesa,

koro keno tabe tahar gaurava

vaisnaver pache, pratisthasa ache,

ta'te kabhu nahe anitya-vaibhava'

 

5) Why do you needlessly suffer the torment of blaspheming the devotees of Lord Hari, attempting to achieve their eminence, thereby only proving your own fruitless foolishness? The desire for spiritual eminence is easily fulfilled when one becomes a devotee of the Lord, for eternal fame automatically follows the heels of a Vaisnava. And that fame is never to be considered a temporary worldly opulence.

 

se hari-sambandha, sunya-maya-gandha,

tha kabhu noy jader kaitava'

pratistha-candali, nirjanata-jali,

ubhaye janiho mayika raurava

 

6) The relationship between a devotee and Lord Hari is devoid of even a trace of worldly illusion; it has nothing to do with the materialistic cheating propensity. The prestige of so-called popularity in the material realm is compared to a treacherous dog-eating witch, and the attempt to live in solitude to supposedly engage in unalloyed bhajan is compared to an entangling network of distraction. Please know that anyone striving in either of these ways verily lives in the hell of Maya's illusion.

 

kirtana chadibo, pratistha makhibo,

ki kaja dhudiya tadrisa gaurava

madhavendra puri, bhava-ghare curi,

na korilo kabhu sadai janabo

 

7) "I shall give up chanting the Lord's name publicly in krtan and retire to solitude, thus smearing myself with worldly honor." Dear mind, what is the good of seeking such so-called glory? I will always remind you that the great soul Madhavendra Puri never deceived himself in that regard by committing theft in his own storehouse of perception the way you do.

 

tomar pratisha,sukarer vistha'

tar-saha sama kabhu na manava

matsarata-vase, tumi jada-rase,

majecho chadiya kirtana-saustava

 

8) Your cheap reputation is equal to the stool of a hog. An ordinary ambitious man like you can never be equated with a devotee of Madhavendra Puri's eminence. Under the sway of envy, you have drowned yourself in the filthy waters of material enjoyment after having abandoned the excellent perfection of congregational krtan.

 

tai dusta mana, nirjana bhajan,'

pracaricho chale kuyogi-vaibhava'

prabhu sanatane, parama jatane,

siksa dilo yaha, cinto sei saba

 

9) Truly, O wicked mind, the glories of so-called solitary worship are propagated only by false yogis using unscrupulous means to deceive others. To save yourself from these pitfalls, please contemplate the instructions that the Supreme Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu kindly gave us while addressing Srila Sanatana Goswami with the utmost care.

 

sei du'ti katha, bhulo' na sarvatha,

uccaih-svare koro hari-nama-rava'

phalgu' ar yukta,' baddha' ar mukta,'

kabhu na bhaviho, ekakar saba

 

10) Do not forget for a moment the two most valuable concepts that He taught: 1) the principle of dry, apparent renunciation as opposed to real, appropriate renunciation; and 2) the principle of a soul being trapped in the bondage of matter as opposed to a soul who is liberated. Don't ever make the mistake of thinking that these conflicting concepts are on the same level. Please remember this while engaging yourself in chanting the Lord's holy names as loud as you possibly can.

 

kanaka-kamini,' pratistha-baghini,'

chadiyache jare, sei to' vaisnava

sei anasakta,' sei suddha-bhakta,'

samsar tatha pay parabhava

 

11) One is truly a Vaisnava who has given up the habit of falling victim to the ferocious tigress of wealth, beauty, and fame. Such a soul is factually detached from material life, and is known as a pure devotee. Someone with this consciousness of detachment has thereby become victorious over the mundane world of birth and death.

 

yatha-yogya bhoga, nahi tatha roga,

anasakta' sei, ki ar kahabo

asakti-rohita,' sambandha-sahita,'

visaya-samuha sakali madhava'

 

12) One is indeed detached who moderately partakes of worldly things that are deemed necessary for living in devotional service; a devotee acting in that manner does not fall prey to the disease of material infatuation. Thus devoid of selfish attachment, and endowed with the ability to see things in relation to the Lord, all sense objects are then directly perceived as being Lord Madhava Himself.

 

se yukta-vairagya,' taha to' saubhagya,

taha-i jadete harir vaibhava

kirtane jahar, pratistha-sambhar,'

tahar sampatti kevala kaitava'

 

13) This is the standard of befitting renunciation, and one who realizes this is most fortunate indeed. Everything involved in such a devotee's life represents Lord Hari's personal spiritual opulence as manifest in the world of matter. On the other hand, one who engages in chanting the Lord's name with hopes of enhancing his own material reputation finds that all his activities and paraphernalia represent only the riches of hypocrisy.

 

visaya-mumuksu,' bhoger bubhuksu,'

du'ye tyajo mana, dui avaisnava'

krishner sambandha,' aprakrita-skandha,

kabhu nahe taha jader sambhava

 

14) O mind, please reject the company of two types of personsthose desiring impersonal liberation from the material world, and those who desire to enjoy the pleasure of material sense objects. Both of these are equally non-devotees. The things that are used in relation to Lord Krishna are objects belonging directly to the transcendental realm, and thus having nothing to do with matter they cannot be either owned or forsaken by persons interested in mundane enjoyment or renunciation.

 

mayavadi jana,' krishnetara mana,

mukta abhimane se ninde vaisnava

vaisnaver das, tava bhakti-as,

keno va dakicho nirjana-ahava

 

15) An impersonal philospher is opposed to thinking of Krishna as an object of devotion, and thus being puffed up with the false pride of imaginary liberation he dares to criticize the true devotees of the Lord. O mind, you are the servant of the Vaisnavas, and you should always hope for attaining devotion. Why then do you make such a loud commotion by calling to me and trying to prove the supposed supremacy of your practice of solitary worship?

 

je phalgu-vairaga,' kohe nije tyagi,'

se na pare kabhu hoite vaisnava'

hari-. chadi', nirjanata badi,'

labhiya ki phala, phalgu' se vaibhava

 

16) One who falsely gives up things that could actually be used in the Lord's service proudly calls himself a renunciate,' but unfortunately he can never become a Vaisnava by such an attitude. Abandoning his servitorship to the lotus feet of Lord Hari, and resigning himself to his solitary homewhatever is gained by that exercise can only be the worthless treasure of deception.

 

radha-dasye rohi', chadi bhoga-ahi,'

pratisthasa' nahe kirtana-gaurava'

radha-nitya-jana,' taha chadi' mana,

keno va nirjana-bhajana-kaitava

 

17) Ever engage yourself in the service of Sri Radha, and keep aloof from the vicious snake of materialistic sense gratification. The glory of participating in the Lord's krtan is not meant to bolster anyone's ambitions for personal recognition. O mind, why then have you abandoned the identity of being Radha's eternal servant in favor of retiring to a solitary place to practice the cheating process of so-called bhajan?

 

vraja-vasi-gana, pracaraka-dhana,

pratistha-bhiksuka ta'ra nahe sava'

prana ache ta'r, se-hetu pracar,

pratisthasa-hina-'krishna-gatha' saba

 

18) The most valuable treasures amongst the Lord's preachers are the eternal personalities residing in Vraja-dham. They never occupy themselves with begging for worthless material reputation, which is cherished only by the living dead. The Vraja-vasis are truly infused with life, and therefore they preach in order to give life to the walking corpses of the mundane world. All the songs that the Vraja-vasis sing about the glories of Lord Krishna are devoid of any tinge of desire for fame.

 

Sri-dayita-das, kirtanete as,

koro uccaih-svare hari-nama-rava'

kirtana-prabhave, smarana svabhave,

se kale bhajana-nirjana sambhava

 

19) This humble servant of Radha and Her beloved Krishna always hopes for kirtan, and he begs all to loudly sing the names of Lord Hari. The transcendental power of congregational chanting automatically awakens remembrance of the Lord and His divine pastimes in relation to one's own eternal spiritual form. Only at that time does it become possible to go off to a solitary place and engage in the confidential worship of Their Lordships

[gHari 0]

I've been having difficulty resolving the current Churches' take on the Gospel regarding the time when three disciples saw Jesus speaking with Moses and Elijah. They had left their bodies long before.

 

Apparently all references to reincarnation had been removed from the Gospel in the early centuries of the Church, although references can be found in the Gospel of Thomas.

 

How does one try to reconcile that Jesus could be speaking with these two dead people? If they are in the Kingdom of God, then how did they get there? How is it that the Messiah was to be anointed by Elijah, who died long ago, yet Jesus tells us that Elijah is now John the Baptist?

 

It seems the Church missed a few pieces when they tried to remove all references to reincarnation. Oh what a tangled web we weave when at first we attempt to deceive.

 

gHari

[Guest guest]

All glories to gHari!!!

[Guest guest]

Is worshipping Jesus compatible with worshipping Krishna?

Why not?

There is no divine disagreement between father and son.

 

However, some of the teachings of the New Testament are not standard teachings of spiritual knowledge. They were superficially imposed on the teachings of Jesus by later sources.

 

It appears that there was a rift between two parties, both with no clue as to how to perceive the transcendental nature of the message of Jesus.

 

Paul tried to make sense out of Jesus, probably to the best of his abilities. So did the group around James, Peter and the rest.

 

Paul made no qualms about it that he preached a different concept of Jesus:

 

"For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those 'super-apostles' (i.e., James, Peter and the rest)" (2 Cor. 11:5).

 

Hence Christianity as we know it might well be a spin off of the original Jesus movement, described by the well-established contemporary scholar Burton L. Mack as a "Christ Cult of Northern Syria and Asia Minor"--Paul possibly being its most eloquent exponent.

 

It appears that James and his party gradually regressed to some extent back toward Judaism, with James praying daily in the temple ("He was in the habit of entering alone into the temple, and was frequently found upon his knees begging forgiveness for the people, so that his knees became hard like those of a camel in consequence of constantly bending them on his worship of God" (Eusebius, Church History II. Ch XXIII, 5-7). Meanwhile Paul's party-- with its theology of redemption from the cross, the concept of the dying God (drawn largely from concepts in the pagan mystery cults of the Mediterranean basin)--went its own way.

 

Especially interesting in this regard is the cult of the savior God Mithra, who similarly dies for the sins of his followers.

 

It's hard to overlook certain similarities to the Last Supper if one considers that those who partook in the meal in memory of Mithra were also to participate in his death and resurrection.

 

Further remarkable is that Mithra's birthday happens to be December 25, Christmas day. Even the sacred day of the week for the followers of Mithra, him being the sun-god, is Sunday and not the Sabbath (which was undoubtedly observed by Jesus and his followers).

 

After Jerusalem's mother church was routed by the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, some of the followers apparently retreated to Trans Jordania (the famous flight to Pella), later to become known as Ebionites. Paul's construct survived by default. It is remarkable that the Ebionites described by Epiphanius of Constantia (AD 315-403) in his Panarion (Ch. 30) perceived Jesus as a perfect human rather than God. They believed that one couldn't follow Jesus unless one renounces eating meat. They did not believe that Jesus was born from a virgin. And they declared the teachings of Paul to be heresy--Paul, being the first apostate (the first to fall from the faith).

 

Some scholars such as Klausner postulate that the teachings of the Ebionite Christians could well be closer to the teachings of the Jesus of history. "However, the influence of Jewish Christianity, despite its decade of unchallenged supremacy, was not absolute, and the author of this innovating document that we know now as the Gospel of Mark, was clearly inspired by the theology of Paul.

 

S.G.F. Brandon says: "The death of Jesus, moreover, is set forth not as an accident, to be explained apologetically by means of Old Testament quotation, but as an event of universal soteriological significance, which could not be understood by the celebrated representatives of the Jewish Apostles."

 

And that's where the whole thing split, and the section which based its theology on a person who never met Jesus in person, namely Paul, took off in a different direction: the Christianity we have known of for two thousand years.

 

We ask you to discover the historical Jesus. And modern scholarship will help you in the quest to develop a more enlightened understanding of Jesus and his teachings.

 

Srila Prabhupada, the spiritual master of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness said: "If one loves Krishna, he must love Lord Jesus also. And if one perfectly loves Jesus he must love Krishna too. If he says, 'Why shall I love Krishna? I shall love Jesus,' then he has no knowledge. And if one says, 'Why shall I love Jesus? I shall love Krishna,' then he has no knowledge either. If one understands Krishna, then he will understand Jesus. If you understand Jesus, you'll understand Krishna too" (Room conversation with Allen Ginsberg, May 12, 1969 / Columbus - Ohio

 

 

[Guest guest]

What is the difference between the messages of Jesus and Krishna?

 

Answer: In essence there is no difference in the message of Krishna and the message of Jesus. As Father like son.

 

In fact if you find conflict it is that in time a whole superficial theological structure was superimposed on the original teachings of Jesus. As such you have to distinguish between the Christ of creed and dogma and the Jesus of History.

 

No doubt to us, Jesus was preaching perfectly and his universal message is nondifferent from the teachings of Krishna's: Namely that Man has to change his heart, give up sense gratification and turn to God with complete determination - " Thou shall love Thy Lord with all Thy heart, and with all Thy soul, and with all Thy might."

 

This is the heart and the very essence of Jesus' teachings, and such bhakti - pure devotion to the Supreme Being - was at the heart of his life. It is at the heart of any genuine form of spirituality.

 

man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru

mam evaisyasi satyam te pratijane priyo 'si me

 

"Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend" (Bhagavad-gita 18.65).

 

tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam

dadami buddhi-yogam tam yena mam upayanti te

 

"To those who are constantly devoted to serving Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me". (Bhagavad-gita 10.10).

 

tesam evanukampartham aham ajnana-jam tamah

nasayamy atma-bhava-stho jnana-dipena bhasvata

 

"To show them special mercy, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance". (Bhagavad-gita 10.11).

 

The great Spiritual master Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur teaches:

 

manasa deho geho jo kichu mor arpilun tuwa pade nanda-kisor

 

"My mind, my body, my home, whatever I have in my possession, I offer unto You, myLord."

 

And Srila Rupa Gosvami, the direct disciple of Sri Krishna Caitanya says:

 

sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam

hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate

 

"When all one's senses are engaged in the service of the Supreme Lord, the master of all the senses, and the soul renders pure service unto the Supreme, he is freed from all material designations, and one's senses are purified'" (Narada-pancaratra qtd. in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.1.12).

 

Such service to the Lord encompasses all one's life and it simply does not matter whether such truth is spoken by Jesus or by Sri Krishna - father and son are one in spirit and one in love: the message is the same: Jesus was preaching intense spiritual life, to forsake, home, relatives and the rest and turn to God radically in pure devotion:

 

"…and if you wish to be perfect, go, sell your possessions, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." (Matthew 19:21)

 

"…Do not worry about anything: look at the birds of the air; they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?…"

 

"… And why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not clothed like one of these. Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear?' But strive first for the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. (Matthew 6:26-33)

 

"Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you. For everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. Is there anyone among you who, if your child asks for bread, will give a stone? Or if the child asks for a fish, will give a snake? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him…" (Matthew 7:7-11)

 

One disciple said to him: "Lord, first let me go and bury my father." Jesus said: "Follow me. Let the dead bury their own dead." (Matthew 8:20-22) We cannot even conceive how radical a statement in an oriental society where the duty of the son to bury his father was peremptory. This is the 'Wanderradikalismus" (Gert Theissen) of the original Jesus movement. It is the voice of Jesus and the message the Jesus movement of History was standing for. These words are music to our ears.

 

Here we hear the same old voice which is speaking at the heart and root of any genuine tradition:

 

sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja

aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah

 

"Abandon all varieties of mundane religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear…." (Bhagavad-gita 18:66)

 

Such transcendental knowledge is universal, never changing, and not subject to the speculation of theologians and philosophers. It is raja-vidya raja-guhyam, "the king of education, the most secret of all secrets". pavitram idam uttamam, the purest knowledge and the most perfect. pratyashavagamam dharmyam, it avails direct perception of the self by realization, the perfection of religion: su-sukham kartum avyayam, everlasting and joyfully performed." (Bhagavad-gita 9.2)

 

All it depends upon is the surrender of the soul and complete abandonment to the will of the Supreme Lord - "… Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, your will be done…" (Matthew 26:42), "…Your kingdom come. Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven…." (Matthew 6:10)

 

And as the result of such surrender Sri Krishna revels Himself to His devotee:

 

ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham

 

As they surrender unto Me, I reveal myself" (Bhagavad-gita 4.11) Never mind religion, race or nation: samo 'ham sarva-bhutesu na me dvesyo 'sti na priyah - I am not partial to anyone. I am equal to all." (Bhagavad-gita 9.29)

 

Hence spiritual life is a practical verifiable experience. Performed under the guidance of great souls it can be experienced by anyone, everywhere and at all times.

 

Unfortunately most Christians are conditioned by theological constructions they have been taught since long. It's hard for them to open their minds to allow the original concept to enter. We must be very understanding and try to help those understand who want to.

 

Along these lines we much appreciate the sincere attempts and enormous courage of New Testament scholars in their 150 years of Quest for Jesus - from H.S. Raimarus to F. Strauss, from Albert Schweitzer to R. Bultmann and in recent times from J. Bornekamm to J. D. Crossan, John S. Cloppenborg, Burton L. Mack to Marcus J. Borg. Just to name a few. These men have rendered tremendous contributions to free our minds from previous impositions.

 

Only to return to us the Jesus of History.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Who was Jesus?

 

Krishna explains in the Bhagavad-gita (4.7) :

 

yada yada hi dharmasya - glanir bhavati bharata

abhyutthanam adharmasya - tadatmanam srjamy aham

 

"O descendant of Bharata, whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself."

 

Either Krishna comes Himself or He sends His empowered representative, a shaktyavesa avatara, a perfect being empowered (shakti) by Sri Krishna to preach sanatana dharma, the pure eternal religion, the universal religion of the soul.

 

We understand Jesus to be such a shaktyavesa avatara, a perfect soul, a messenger of the Supreme Being. Srila Prabhupada was quite specific: he said Jesus descended from Satyaloka, the highest planet of this universe.

 

As for the denizens of Satyaloka, it is stated:

 

na yatra soko na jara na mrtyur - nartir na codvega rte kutascit

yac cit tato 'dah krpayanidam-vidam - duranta-duhkha-prabhavanudarsanat

 

"In that planet of Satyaloka, there is neither bereavement, nor old age nor death. There is no pain of any kind, and therefore there are no anxieties, save that sometimes, due to consciousness, there is a feeling of compassion for those unaware of the process of devotional service, who are subjected to unsurpassable miseries in the material world" (Srimad Bhagavatam 2.2.27).

 

Such great souls are completely selfless and only interested in saving the fallen souls in the material world. Hence they descend to this level of consciousness.

 

tiksavah karunikah - suhrdah sarva-dehinam

ajata-satravah santah - sadhavah sadhu-bhusanah

 

"The symptoms of a sadhu are that he is tolerant, merciful and friendly to all living entities. He has no enemies, he is peaceful, he abides by the scriptures, and all his characteristics are sublime" (Srimad Bhagavatam 3.25.21).

 

Srila Prabhupada explains this verse:

 

"The Srimad-Bhagavatam states that any bona fide preacher of God consciousness must have the qualities of titiksa (tolerance) and karuna (compassion). In the character of Lord Jesus Christ we find both these qualities.

 

He was so tolerant that even while he was being crucified he didn't condemn anyone.

 

And he was so compassionate that he prayed to God to forgive the very persons who were trying to kill him. As Christ was being crucified he prayed, "Father, forgive them. They know not what they are doing."

 

Jesus Christ was such a great personality--the son of God, the representative of God. He had no fault. Still, he was being crucified. He wanted to deliver God consciousness, but in return they crucified him. They were so ungrateful. They could not appreciate his preaching. But we appreciate him and give him all honors as the representative of God" (The Science of Self-Realization, chap. 4).

 

Great souls are never disturbed under any circumstances:

 

narayana-parah sarve - na kutascana bibhyati

svargapavarga-narakesv - api tulyartha-darsinah

 

"Devotees solely engaged in the devotional service of the Supreme Lord, never fear any condition of life. For them the heavenly planets, liberation and the hellish planets are all the same, for such devotees are interested only in the service of the Lord" (Srimad Bhagavatam 6:17.28).

 

Even when facing tribulations, as in Jesus' case crucifixion, a pure soul on the highest level of intimacy with God, absorbed in God consciousness-Krishna Consciousness-is not afraid under any circumstances: "Daughters of Jerusalem, don't cry for me. Cry for yourselves and for your children" (Luke 23:28).

 

brahma-bhutah prasannatma - na socati na kanksati

samah sarvesu bhutesu - mad-bhaktim labhate param

 

"One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments or desires to have anything. He is equally disposed toward every living entity, absorbed in pure devotion to Me" (Bhagavad-gita 18.54).

 

Being absorbed in carrying out the will of the Lord, great souls return to the spiritual world after having accomplished their mission.

 

[Guest guest]

Are Jesus and Krishna one?

 

This idea often suggested to us is due to the statement taken from John: "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).

 

While it has already been pointed out previously that this latest of Gospels, written around AD 125, is-short of a few sentences-widely questioned by scholars due to it's exaggerated claims and Christological tendencies, the idea of Jesus being God incarnate appears much earlier, beginning with Paul's letter to the Romans (written around AD 55): "Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen" (Roman 9:5).

 

From there then this idea begins to spread and works itself throughout the centuries, even up into our modern times.

 

It is remarkable that already Plinius Caecilius Secundus (AD 61-114), the Proconsul of the province of Bithynia in AD 111, in his now famous letters to the Emperor Trajan on the Christians noticed that "it was their habit on a fixed day to assemble before daylight and recite a hymn to Christ as a God ("Carmen Christo qasi deo decere secum invincem").

 

In time therefore the Pauline concept gained enthusiastic support within the gentile Christians, heavily opposed by Ebionite Christians and other early Christian Groups-consequently branded heretics.

 

This God-concept was further greatly elaborated on by Gregory of Nyassa (AD 335), who formulated the Trinitarian doctrine of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, which emerged then as a clear and cogent answer to Arian questioning.

 

Finally it found its ultimate dogmatic formulation in the so-called Athanasian Creed (c. AD 500), una substantia-tres personae ("one substance-three persons") which settled the Arian controversy once and for all.

 

However if we look into the Gospels themselves-at least to the synoptic Gospels-Mark, Matthew and Luke-we find no notion of Jesus as God incarnate. Rather it says in Mark 10:8 and Luke 18:19: "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone."

 

Scholars in general agree that Jesus himself surely never considered himself divine, God incarnate, the second person of the Trinity. Even the Gospel of John for all its Christological pronouncements says: "My Father is greater than I" ( John 14:28). Considering the statement: "I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and prudent, and have revealed them unto babes" (Luke 10:21), babes don't have the Trinity in mind when reading the Bible.

 

Rather the concept of Jesus being God evolved in time. It has not to do with the Jesus of History, but rather what Christians, beginning with Paul, in time came to believe about Jesus.

 

Burton L. Mack suggests that rather than being the view of the Jesus movement or the people of Q, this idea reflects the mindset of a North Syrian Christ cult, an assumed departure from the Jesus movement-Paul being it's notable exponent.

 

From Vedic evidence it is clear that Jesus is not Krishna. One only needs to contemplate Krishna's opulence as described in the Vedic version to come to this conclusion. Here are some examples:

 

Nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus claim that he is omnipresent, as Krishna does: sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisto-"I am in the heart of all beings" (Bhagavad-gita 15.15), "present in every atom"-andantara stha paramanu cayantara stham (Brahma Samhita 5.35), and that He can be seen as such by one with perfect vision: yo mam pasyati sarvatra sarvam ca mayi pasyati-"For one who sees Me everywhere and sees everything in Me, I am never lost, nor is he ever lost to Me" (Bhagavad-gita 6:30).

 

Nor does Jesus claim that he is omnipotent-

 

mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya

mayi sarvam idam protam sutre mani-gana iva

 

as Krishna states: "There is no truth beyond Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread" (Bhagavad-gita 7.7). That he is the strength of the strong-balam balavatam caham (7.11), the intelligence of the intelligent-buddhir buddhimatam asmi (7.10), and the ability in man-tejas tejasvinam aham (7.10).

 

Nor does Jesus says he is omniscient-vedaham samatitani vartamanani carjuna bhavisyani ca bhutani mam tu veda na kascana-"O Arjuna, I know everything that has happened in the past, all that is happening in the present, and all things that are yet to come. I also know all living entities; but Me no one knows" (Bhagavad-gita 7.26).

 

bahuni me vyatitani janmani tava carjuna

tany aham veda sarvani na tvam vettha parantapa

 

"Many, many births both you and I have passed. I can remember all of them, but you cannot!" (Bhagavad-gita 4.5).

 

Further, Jesus does not proclaim himself the source of all beings-bijam mam sarva bhutanam (7.10)-"the original seed" and "the father of all"-aham bija-pradah pita (14.4).

 

Nor did Jesus teach that the entire creation is resting on him: aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate

iti matva bhajante mam budha bhava-samanvitah

 

"I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts" (Bhagavad-gita 10.8).

 

etad-yonini bhutani sarvanity upadharaya

aham krtsnasya jagatah prabhavah pralayas tatha

 

"Of all that is material and all that is spiritual in this world, know for certain that I am both the origin and the dissolution" (7.6).

 

Jesus does not claim to be the supreme controller-isvarah paramah krsnah (Brahma Samhita 5.1), the cause of all physical phenomena-tapamy aham aham varsam nigrhnamy utsrjami ca-"I give heat, and I withhold and send forth the rain" (9.19), or "the cause of all causes, material and spiritual"-sarva karana karanam (Brahma Samhita 5.1).

 

Nor does Jesus claim to be "immortality, death personified"-amrtam caiva mrtyus ca sad asac caham arjuna, or say: "both spirit and matter are in Me"-sad asac caham arjuna (9.19).

 

Jesus does not say that material nature is under his control-mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram (Bhagavad-gita 9.1), that all innumerable living entities are his parts and parcels-yena bhutany asesani draksyasy atmany atho mayi (Bhagavad-gita 4.35), that he is the cause of all creation-yad yad vibhutimat sattvam srimad urjitam eva va, or-tat tad evavagaccha tvam mama tejo-'msa-sambhavam-know that all opulent, beautiful and glorious creations spring from but a spark of My splendor" (10.41).

 

Nor does Jesus proclaim: "What need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe"-atha va bahunaitena kim jnatena tavarjuna vistabhyaham idam krtsnam ekamsena sthito jagat (10.42).

 

However all this does not mean that Jesus is an ordinary being who ascended to perfection.

 

Neither was his body sac-cit-ananda vigraha, a transcendental body of knowledge and bliss, as Krishna's (Brahma Samhita 5.1).

 

It is quite clear from what scholars tell us that neither Jesus nor his original followers in Galilee or later Jerusalem, i.e. the members of the Jesus movement, considered Jesus "the Word (which) became flesh and lived among us," God incarnate, the second person of the Trinity, the son of man who will be coming to us in the future on the clouds: "For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man" (Matthew 24:27).

 

However, Jesus as a perfect being, an empowered shaktyavesa avatara, an eternally perfect soul , descends, endowed with divine power, to save the fallen souls in this material world.

 

Such a body is not subject to the same laws governing us poor fellows. A person on that level is endowed with eight mystic opulences, some of them demonstrated in the Gospels:

 

anima siddhi-one can go though walls or closed doors (John 20:19,26),

laghima siddhi-one can walk over water (Matthew 14.25),

prapti siddhi-one can bring into three dimensional space and from a higher plane, things, like food-feeding the four or five thousand (Matt.15:38, 16:10; Mark 8:9, 8:20),

isitva siddhi-to appear and disappear at will-"then their eyes were opened, and they recognized him; and he vanished from their sight" (Luke 4:29:30, 24:31).

 

As far as liberated souls such as Jesus, jivan mukta, free from the inebriety of the material laws, it is stated:

 

iha yasya harer dasye karmana manasa gira

nikhilasv apy avasthasu jivan-muktah sa ucyate (Bhakti-rasamita-sindhu 1.2.187).

 

"A person acting in Krishna consciousness (or, in other words, in the service of Krishna) with his body, mind, intelligence and words is a liberated person even within the material world, even if engaged in so-called material activities."

 

Srila Prabhupada explains: (such a devotee) "has no false ego, for he does not believe that he is this material body, or that he possesses the body. He knows that he is not this body and that this body does not belong to him. He himself belongs to Krishna, and the body too belongs to Krishna. When he applies everything produced of the body, mind, intelligence, words, life, wealth, etc.-whatever he may have within his possession-to Krishna's service, he is at once dovetailed with Krishna. He is one with Krishna and is devoid of the false ego that leads one to believe that he is the body, etc. This is the perfect stage of Krishna consciousness" (Bhagavad-gita 5.11 purport).

 

"Such a devotee of the Lord can withstand all onslaughts of material nature, and therefore he is known as gosvami. Only such gosvamis can penetrate the mysteries of the Lord's transcendental loving relationships" (Srimad Bhagavatam 3.4.31 purport).

 

Such a person is on the platform called vasudeva or suddha sattva, beyond material nature, one with Krishna, not in personality but in interest, in service and love, "in this world but not of it."

 

mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena bhakti-yogena sevate

sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate

 

"One who always engages in the spiritual activities of unalloyed devotional service at once transcends the modes of material nature and reaches the platform of Brahman (the transcendental platform)" (Bhagavad-gita 14.26).

 

The inconceivable state of consciousness of a liberated soul, jivan muktah, a person on the vasudeva platform, absorbed in God in his relationship to his body is described as such in Bhagavad-gita:

 

naiva kincit karomiti yukto manyeta tattva-vit

pasyan srnvan sprsan jighrann asnan gacchan svapan svasan

pralapan visrjan grhnann unmisan nimisann api

indriyanindriyarthesu vartanta iti dharayan

 

"A person in the divine consciousness, although engaged in seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, eating, moving about, sleeping and breathing, always knows within himself that he actually does nothing at all. Because while speaking, evacuating, receiving, or opening or closing his eyes, he always knows that only the material senses are engaged with their objects and that he is aloof from them" (Bhagavad-gita 5.8-9).

 

Such devotees see in their heart of hearts in ecstatic vision-premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti-the eyes tinged with the salve of love syamasundaram acintya-guna-svarupam-the inconceivable transcendental form of Syamasundara, Krishna, at every given time.

 

Such a person on the platform of prasannatma-ecstasy-sees God everywhere:

 

yo mam pasyati sarvatra sarvam ca mayi pasyati

tasyaham na pranasyami sa ca me na pranasyati

 

"For one who sees Me everywhere and sees everything in Me, I am never lost, nor is he ever lost to Me" (Bhagavad-gita 6.30).

 

He is on the brahma bhuta platform, a liberated soul:

 

brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati

samah sarvesu bhutesu mad-bhaktim labhate param,

 

free from lamentation-na socati-even when facing intense tribulations like crucifixion: "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children"(Luke 23:28).

 

He has nothing left to desire-na kanksati.

He the friend of all beings-samah sarvesu bhutesu.

And his absorption in his pure devotional service to God is complete and perfect-mad-bhaktim labhate param (Bhagavad-gita 18.54).

 

Being with Krishna (in Krishna Consciousness), they are not afraid under any conditions:

 

narayana-parah sarve na kutascana bibhyati

svargapavarga-narakesv api tulyartha-darsinah

 

"Devotees solely engaged in the devotional service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Narayana, never fear any condition of life. For them the heavenly planets, liberation and the hellish planets are all the same, for such devotees are interested only in the service of the Lord" (Srimad Bhagavatam 6.17.28).

 

Nor are they subject to the law of karma or the laws of nature like ordinary human beings:

 

mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritah

bhajanty ananya-manaso jnatva bhutadim avyayam

 

"O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible" (Bhagavad-gita 9.13).

 

Nor can they be killed, under ordinary circumstances: kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati "O son of Kunti, declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes" (Bhagavad-gita 9.31).

 

There is ample evidence from our scriptures that perfect souls like Prahlada Maharaja survived all kinds of tortures and atrocities by his demonic father, being thrown in the dens of lions, into the pits of snakes or from the tops of mountains.

 

Even Bhisma, being pierced by a thousand arrows, was beyond the laws of nature and could not be killed but left his body out of his own will, only after Sri Krishna arrived.

 

Similarly in the 15th century, neither Mira Bhai was killed when being induced with poison, nor Haridas Thakur, who, after beaten over 21 marketplaces, was considered dead, his body thrown into the Ganges. He came to back life and walked around freely as Jesus did-after crucifixion.

 

From the Old Testament we remember the story of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who preferred to be thrown into the furnace rather than eating the meat of King Nebuchadnezzar, and who had kirtan in the fire and survived (Daniel 3:19-26). mare krsna rakhe ke, rakhe krsna mare ke-if Krishna protects you, no one can kill you, and if Krishna wants to kill you, no one can save you.

 

While the circumstances of Jesus' disappearance are by no means clear, they are indeed for us less important, even irrelevant. As Srila Prabhupada pointed out: "preaching is the essence." The teachings of Jesus are the most essential part of his mission and incarnation, rather than what happened thereafter.

 

In fact, by getting preoccupied with the death of Jesus, the empty grave and thereafter-curiously called by Theologians the 'after-Easter perspective'-the whole emphasis of Jesus' teachings-to leave things behind turn to God with heart, soul and mind-becomes clouded and is ultimately lost.

 

Consequently, as early as 1977 Srila Prabhupada, based on Vedic evidence, discounted the concept of Jesus dying for our sins as an unauthorized shift of paradigm: from the pure and perfect teachings of Jesus to salvation from the cross (Bombay, April 2, 1977).

 

The teachings of Jesus are universal, complete in themselves and perfectly Salvific-sanatana dharma, the eternal religion of the soul in its loving relationship to the Supreme Being, unadulterated by the falsity of bodily designation, upadhis, i.e. designations as Indian, American, Hindu, Muslim, Christian and so on-sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate (Narada-pancaratra, quoted in Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu 1.1.2.)-the actual purpose of life.

 

Simply by surrendering to the will of God one lives with Krishna and all karma is destroyed.

 

sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja

aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah

 

"Abandon all varieties of dharma and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear" (Bhagavad-gita 18.66).

 

Hence no one has to die for our sins.

 

Jesus taught with his personal life how to surrender to God under all conditions: "Thy will be done" (Matthew 26:42), "on earth as it is in heaven" (Matthew 6:10).

 

To preach this message of love Jesus was so surrendered that he would tolerate crucifixion.

 

 

[GospelDefense 0]

Ok G'hari here's my take on it. I will get into more detail later.Reincarnation is an Eastern concept that speaks of the transmigration of the human soul. In certain cultures it is believed that the souls of those who die come back as dung beetles, or as the rain or the dew. In Nepal they teach that evil men come back as dogs, so they beat the dogs unmercifully. In India cows, rats, and grasshoppers are viewed as people who have been reincarnated.

 

The overarching concept of reincarnation comes from the Hindu belief that life and death make up an eternal wheel. Each individual is attached to the wheel, and attached to each individual is a karma, or fate. People supposedly purge their karmas by successive incarnations. There is no end, only bad incarnations or possibly good incarnations. There is no understanding, no rules, no reason; just mindless fate and hopeless attempts at the cleansing of guilt.

 

The Bible does not teach this at all. The Bible says, "It is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment" (Hebrews 9:27). In the story of the rich man and Lazarus, when the rich man died, he went to Hades. When Lazarus died, he went to paradise, called by the Bible "Abraham's bosom." There was no thought of coming back.

 

When Jesus Christ was on the Mount of Transfiguration, He met with Moses and Elijah and He talked with them (see Matthew 17:1-3). Moses had been dead for years, but he was still Moses. Moses did not come back as King Tut or Marie Antoinette. Moses was Moses. He never lost his identity. The Bible teaches that when you are born you have the identity you will have for all eternity (see Matthew 17:1-8, Mark 9:2-8, Luke 9:28-36).

 

You are never going to lose that identity. You are absolutely accountable for what you do in this life. There is no second chance and no opportunity to come back and purge yourself of the sins and wrongs you have done. Reincarnation vitiates the major teachings of Christianity about responsibility and judgment.

 

There are those who claim that reincarnation is a Christian concept, but it is not. It is a Hindu concept that has been totally discredited. It gives people a false hope, a false expectation, or a false despair -- false because thinking about what awaits you in the next life makes it very hard to bring about any kind of moral reformation in this one. When you have this concept of karma (the same thought is found in the Mohammedan concept of kismet), then you say, "Well, these people are the lower classes and that is their karma." You do not have to worry about feeding them, educating them, uplifting them, because they have that karma. They are where they belong. You will never find social justice and social progress in countries where the doctrine of reincarnation has a strong hold.

 

In comparison, the Bible says we are responsible for our brothers. We must be kind and good to the poor and the needy. The Bible teaches that all people are beloved by God and that they all have an equal chance, but the chance lasts only during this lifetime.

 

Peace Of Christ -Goespel Defense

 

 

[gHari 0]

Defender,

 

You speak like an expert, yet avoid Elijah who now is John the Baptist. Where is your humility? Don't cheat yourself, and don't cheat me. Get beyond the words.

 

Do you really think that God was just born a little while ago? No. He has always been, will always be.

 

Did He just recently get a whim to create other living beings? Out of all eternity, did He just decide a few thousand years back to create people, casting the still-born, deaf, dumb, blind, and remote aborigine into eternal rejection? This is simply silliness. Get beyond the words, the idiom.

 

The scriptures are meant for intelligent people, describing an esoteric truth that words can never capture. Do not take them as something cheap and primitive by becoming a show-bottle expert.

 

gHari

[Guest guest]

You are exposing this so-called christian preaching.All glories to gHari. Hare Krishna! /images/graemlins/smile.gif