Onion and Egg Substitutes in cooking..

[raga 0]

 

Can you show a single dictionary you consulted where the definition was given as carrot? Yet, you were adamant that all the dictionaries that said "onion" were wrong. You make a show of asking for feedback... Why?

 

I'll first quote myself from three separate posts in this thread.

 

 

Why is a red onion the primary meaning? I know M-W lists it as the first option, but Sir M-W wasn't a botanist -- therefore, the dictionary may not be reliable in determining the likelihood of one option over the other just on grounds of the order it lists items. There are definitely many shortcomings in it as far as flora and fauna are concerned.

 

You can see in the FRLHT database that grinjana is also used for carrot. The relevant HBV verse is also translated as carrot in Mahanambrata Brahmacari's Bengali translation of the work and in Nandalal Pandit's Bhakta-kanthahara. A search for grinjana in the FRLHT gives garlic and carrot as the two options.

 

 

I have pointed to two independent Bengali translations of the verse that render it as "carrot". The FRLHT botanical database gives both as possible translations:

 

1. Allium sativum (LILIACEAE)

2. Daucus carota Var. sativa (APIACEAE)

 

The (alphabetically) first is the Latin name for garlic, and the second for carrot.

 

 

In assessing how to translate, I weighed the dictionary entry against the botanical database, two Bengali translations of the Hari-bhakti-vilasa verse, and traditional knowledge. It became carrot -- with a note on alternative meanings, of which turnip was there earlier, with the red-onion-garlic now added.

 

The presence of two Bengali translations of the word as "carrot" and the presence of the term for carrot in a botanical database suggests that some Bengali/Hindi-Sanskrit dictionaries also offer carrot as a meaning. I have, therefore, called for people with other dictionaries to please look it up.

 

You cannot take a single "family" of dictionaries (Apte that copies M-W, and Capeller from which M-W possibly draws) as proof final, especially without reconciling the other sources.

 

 

 

When something is so obviously wrong and it is pointed out, you won't even hear it.

I believe I've said that both are possible translations and proven as much by referring to the FRLHT botanical database, and I've also added the option to the list in the article. What more would you want?

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

 

Bengali/Hindi-Sanskrit dictionaries also offer carrot as a meaning.

So your method of translating Sanskrit to English is to first translate all the words into Bengali and then retranslate the Bengali to English... while at the same time rejecting all the accurate Sanskrit-English dictionaries known to man... Ok, I think there is no point with this. Hare Krishna and good luck.

 

And after all this, you still believe the word is correctly translated as carrot:

 

I believe I've said that both are possible translations and proven as much by referring to the FRLHT botanical database...

[Bhakta Don Muntean 0]

I've never seen a prep with carrot that is offered to our murtis rejected - as when it [any offering rejected] is it doesn't taste very nice.

 

Carrots are good - for me it's about no meat fish eggs onion garlic mushrooms and vinegar - the rest is pretty much ok.

[raga 0]

 

So your method of translating Sanskrit to English is to first translate all the words into Bengali and then retranslate the Bengali to English... while at the same time rejecting all the accurate Sanskrit-English dictionaries known to man... Ok, I think there is no point with this. Hare Krishna and good luck.

Given that Bengali is a widely spoken contemporary language, unlike Sanskrit, the equivalences between Bengali/Hindi and English are much better established on themes like this in comparison to archaic Sanskrit-English dictionaries. Sanskrit being a language of India, I am confident that there are more thorough and accurate dictionaries from Sanskrit to local languages than there are to English. (I have not researched this, please feel free to prove otherwise.)

 

I have expressed my reservations over the thoroughness and accuracy of the said dictionaries on botanical details, and you have also noted:

 

 

There are other mistakes in the list, but you should consult an ayurvedic botanist. Even a sanskritist will not be able to properly identify these items, as it is a technical subject.

M-W and Capeller are not, as far as I know, the outcome of meticulous peer review as one might expect of a contemporary academic publication -- both works date to the last decade of the 1800's.

 

Why, then, is a botanical database good for nothing? You'll find carrot there under "grinjana", too.

 

-----------------

 

This topic was on hing, however. Do we agree that hing is mentioned in the scriptures as forbidden, or would you want to contest that as well?

[Bhakta Don Muntean 0]

 

So your method of translating Sanskrit to English is to first translate all the words into Bengali and then retranslate the Bengali to English... while at the same time rejecting all the accurate Sanskrit-English dictionaries known to man... Ok, I think there is no point with this. Hare Krishna and good luck.

 

And after all this, you still believe the word is correctly translated as carrot:

 

You can present the facts in only so many ways - they see or they don't.

 

You mentioned superstition in your previous reply and that is what i see too - accepting and rejecting things this way is without profit.

 

Mentioning tomatoes [a wonderful fruit that Krishna likes] and silly food superstitions - there were christians once - who eschewed them because they may have been like the fruit from the tree that Adam and Eve took the apple from.

 

[Bhakta Don Muntean 0]

 

This topic was on hing, however. Do we agree that hing is mentioned in the scriptures as forbidden, or would you want to contest that as well?

 

Didn't Prabhupada cook with hing? JnDas has answered this point with this:

 

No puja after consuming Hing - so - why not say no hing and set the example by not using it - Prabhupada used it - are you saying that he was in the mode of passion? That he was inducing others into the mode of passsion?

[raga 0]

 

Didn't Prabhupada cook with hing? JnDas has answered this point with this:

 

No puja after consuming Hing - so - why not say no hing and set the example by not using it - Prabhupada used it - are you saying that he was in the mode of passion? That he was inducing others into the mode of passsion?

He ate eggplants, for example. Of all the things you can debate that aren't on the list or mistranslated, that isn't one. I understand some people may be disturbed to see that some of their delicacies are forbidden in the sastras.

 

I am not, however, currently very interested in a discussion on the repercussions of the list, especially if it's done with a fanatic rah-rah spirit where everyone is primarily interested in shooting me down. I just want to make the list a fair representation of what's in the Hari-bhakti-vilasa and the Puranas.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

 

Didn't Prabhupada cook with hing?

Prabhupada cooked with hing and ate carrots as well as tomatos. He never said that the color of the tomato makes it unofferable to Krishna. The list of foods that are not to be eaten given in Haribhakti vilasa needs to be studied logically and scientifically.

 

The first step is to properly identify the botanical items accurately. With so many slight variations of plants, and with transformations that occur over thousands of years (due to cross breeding, importing foreign crops, etc.) it isn't as simple as saying "carrot, eggplant, tomato".

 

The second step is to understand why a particular food is forbidden. It is not always the food itself that is the problem, but certain effects it produces. Some other foods are only forbidden during certain times, or when performing particular activities. Other items are only forbidden if taken in excess.

 

There is a particular type of eggplant that contains poison in it, which would clearly make it unofferable to Krishna. There are other eggplants that contain worms (the word vrinta itself means a worm as well as eggplant). So which particular variety of eggplant is being forbidden in the scriptures is what needs to be understood. When we study these things logically everything will make sense. Otherwise it will all be decided based on the colors of the vegetables.