The Rumsfeld Doctrine

[leyh 0]

Rumsfeld: Looting is transition to freedom

 

By Pamela Hess

UPI Pentagon Correspondent

 

WASHINGTON, April 11 (UPI) -- U.S. forces should not be blamed for the lawlessness and looting in Baghdad as it is a natural consequence of the transition from a dictatorship to a free country, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Friday at the Pentagon.

"The task we've got ahead of us now is an awkward one ... It's untidy. And freedom's untidy. And free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things. They're also free to live their lives and do wonderful things. And that's what's going to happen here," Rumsfeld said.

"And for suddenly the biggest problem in the world to be looting is really notable."

Rumsfeld said he believes time will take care of the problem in Baghdad, as it seems to have in the southern cities of Umm Qasr and Basra, where looting has largely abated and the streets are back under relative control.

In Qatar on Friday, U.S. military officials said U.S. forces do not intend to crack down on looting in Iraq because it might alienate the Iraqi people they are trying to win over.

"If the coalition simply imposed control on the population, that wouldn't achieve the desired effect. We wouldn't be everywhere and we might also alienate a population that doesn't need to have another regime with a grip around its neck," said Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks, a Central Command spokesman.

The Pentagon is coming under increasing criticism from human rights groups who say looted hospitals are unable to treat patients, food and water cannot be delivered because the streets are unsafe, and the population is in danger from unchecked fires and criminal violence.

The Geneva Convention holds occupying powers responsible for maintaining law and order.

"We do feel an obligation to assist in providing security, and the coalition forces are doing that. They're patrolling in various cities. Where they see looting, they're stopping it, and they will be doing so," Rumsfeld said.

However, U.S military officials say the war is still very much a hot one. Forces must focus on vanquishing the last vestiges of the regime before they can turn their attention to policing, they say.

Rumsfeld conceded one of the problems with the looting is that government offices are being ransacked and burned -- and with the looters go important documents that could be used to track down people, weapons and possibly missing prisoners of war.

Amnesty International called on the United States and United Kingdom to deploy more troops to secure the cities beyond the 125,000 who are already in the country, many of them still engaged in combat operations. AI warned of reprisal attacks against members of the Baath party and Republican Guard and their families.

Rumsfeld seems to be taking a hands-off approach to that possibility.

"While no one condones looting, on the other hand, one can understand the pent-up feelings that may result from decades of repression and people who have had members of their family killed by that regime, for them to be taking their feelings out on that regime," he said. "And I don't think there's anyone in any of those pictures ... (who wouldn't) accept it as part of the price of getting from a repressed regime to freedom."

Rumsfeld said in the United States there has been looting and riots and they eventually come under control.

"Think what's happened in our cities when we've had riots and problems and looting. Stuff happens!"

AI said Friday the climate of lawlessness might have led to the April 10 slaying of a senior Shiite religious leader, Abd al-Majid al-Khoei, who was stabbed to death at Imam 'Ali mosque in al-Najaf. Two others were killed: Maher al-Yassiri, an aide of al-Khoei, and Hayder al-Rafi'i, another religious leader in al-Najaf.

Abd al-Majid al-Khoei had arrived in al-Najaf a few days earlier from the United Kingdom. He wasn't under U.S. forces' protection.

"As with many other cases, we do not want to impose ourselves on behaviors that are occurring within the Iraqi population. We want to cooperate with the Iraqi population. And so the security that he had was his own in this case," Brooks said.

Rumsfeld was unusually exercised about critical press coverage of the lawlessness that seems to be gripping Baghdad, saying coverage is repetitive and distorts what's really going on.

"I read eight headlines that talked about chaos, violence, unrest. And it just was Henny Penny –- 'The sky is falling.' I've never seen anything like it!" Rumsfeld exclaimed. "The images you are seeing on television you are seeing over and over and over, and it's the same picture of some person walking out of some building with a vase, and you see it 20 times and you think, 'My goodness, were there that many vases?'"

Brooks said reports of looting at hospitals appear to be overstated, noting there are more than 100 hospitals in Baghdad and looting is confirmed at one of them. AI cited at least one other hospital that has been looted.

"We think that this is a very, very small representation that's getting probably more attention than it deserves. Nevertheless, it is putting some hospitals at risk and creates a consequence and a hazard for members of the population who are injured," he said.

Rumsfeld said U.S. forces are beginning to protect hospitals and helping to enforce a curfew.

Brooks said the coalition is doing what it can to create calm.

"In some cases, it may require shooting machine guns in downtown. At no point do we see really becoming a police force," Brooks said.

In Basra, British forces foiled the looting of a bank over the past two days by using their guns.

"Some bank robbers entered into an area and they were halted by coalition forces. They continued moving and drew weapons and they were shot. Looting went down a lot in Basra," Brooks reported.

Brooks said the coalition is eager for the Iraqis to provide for their own security.

"The Iraqi population itself will determine what's appropriate behavior over time," he said.

Nevertheless, Brooks said the coalition can not trust local police to do the job.

"Simply putting police back on the street would not be an acceptable answer. In fact, when we entered the city, we found that there were police radios that we'd captured, and the police were calling for ... indirect fire in support of the regime. So putting the police back on is not an easy solution for us," he said.

Rumsfeld said many local police fled the cities because they knew there would be popular reprisals against them as they were once enforcers for Saddam Hussein's regime.

"We haven't gone in and done away with any police. In fact, we're looking for police in those villages and towns who can, in fact, assist in providing order, to the extent there are people who can do it in a manner that's consistent with our values," he said.

As in Afghanistan, Rumsfeld said the solution to security is going to have to come from within Iraq.

"The Iraqi people are going to have to do this, in the last analysis. We can help, and we want to create an environment that is as secure as possible and that is as stable as possible so that they can find their sea legs, if you will, and get themselves on a path to the future," he said.

Part of that process is tracking down the people on a Pentagon "black list" who will be subject to pursuit, capture or death.

"We consider them all to be legitimate military targets," Brooks said.

The U.S. military has produced a deck of 55 cards identifying by name and photo the "most wanted" Iraqi officials. The cards are being distributed to soldiers and Marines to help them get Iraqis to provide information on their whereabouts, Brooks said. The faces and names will also be published on posters and handbills.

The United States is offering financial rewards and other enticements to get information regarding the whereabouts of the 55 and information on chemical and biological weapons.

"We've also said that if people have spotty backgrounds, assisting us might make their futures brighter," Rumsfeld said.

He said the only way suspected "weapons of mass destruction" will be found –- one of the primary reasons for the war -- is if people come forward with information, enticed with money or promises of leniency.

"Are we going to find (the weapons)? No. It's a big country. What we're going to do is we're going to find the people who will tell us that, and we're going to find ways to encourage them to tell us that," he said.

An Abrams tank in Baghdad rolled over a remotely detonated mine Friday, the first of its kind encountered in Iraq, a U.S. Army official confirmed. CNN reported that one soldier was killed in the attack.

The mine confirms what the military had known: There remains lethal if unorganized resistance in Baghdad, an official said. A Marine was killed in a firefight Thursday near a mosque and more were injured.

On Thursday, special operations forces entered the Abu Gharib jail in Baghdad, a facility that can hold up to 15,000 people. It was empty, and Brooks suggested the prisoners had been released and might be behind some of the lawlessness in the city.

Also, a coalition special operations commander accepted a cease-fire agreement from the regular army Iraqi 5th Corps commander near Mosul.

"The forces up there essentially capitulated, left their equipment in place and just left," said Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon Friday.

Special operations forces also accepted the surrender of an Iraqi colonel who was responsible for border control points on Highway 11, which leads to Syria and has been a route for smuggling, as well as Highway 10, Brooks said.

"And he turned over the keys to the border control point at Highway 11. The coalition now controls that border crossing point," he said.

On Highway 1, which runs north from Tikrit, special forces engaged in a firefight and later discovered five small airplanes hidden under camouflage Thursday. All five aircraft were destroyed, Brooks said.

Members of the 173 Airborne Brigade have secured four gas-oil separation plants and several wells in the northern oil fields around Kirkuk.

The United States began sending world news TV broadcasts in Arabic on Friday into Iraq, using military rather than Iraqi broadcast capabilities. Radio broadcasts continue 24 hours a day.

[leyh 0]

 

And freedom's untidy. And free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things.

 

 

It's frightening when the person capable of such a remark is the Defence Secretary of the United States. One wonders how Mr Rumsfeld would think of people expressing their freedom by looting his residence.

[Guest guest]

Unfortunate, to be sure, this looting...but the military objective and the safety of our allied forces is paramount. Policing the battlefield is a secondary endeavor, at best.

 

A sad fact, one which the people of Iraq will ultimately be better for in the end.

[Guest guest]

First we had "The U.S. will be slaughtered in the war. Half a million civilians will be killed."

 

Now that that didn't happen we have "Oh my God there is looting. America you are horrible for allowing looting." You guys just want to complain about anything.

 

First off go recheck the history of the fall of the soviet republics. Guess what? When they threw off the shackles of communism there was also looting.

 

Second, most of the looting is of government facilities and Baath party officials. I'm not real concerned if people are tearing out Udai's chandeliers, or taking Tariq Aziz's video collection.

 

Third, I believe it is actually good. For one thing it is a reliever of pent up energy. It is better for the populace to get it out of their system against Baath party and the former regime headquarters, than against U.S. troops. Also, it was a good because it created greater induced pressure for top ranking Iraqis to surrender. All of a sudden the entire apparatus that protected them was gone. So they saw these looters and a few Baath party members hanging by street lamps. They then realized that surrendering to U.S. troops was better than having mobs come after them, put a noose around their neck, and drag them through the streets. Why do you think one of Saddam's top scientistic generals surrendered peacefully to the U.S. over the weekend?

 

So quit your complaining. The world isn't perfect, but now 20 million Iraqis are free.

[leyh 0]

 

So quit your complaining. The world isn't perfect, but now 20 million Iraqis are free.

 

 

You respect the rights of the Iraqis are free to loot, but not my right to make criticism. Why the double standard?

 

And my comments weren't directed at the looting. They were directed at the intelligence level of the man who can claim that "free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things."

 

20 million Iraqis free? Really? Then why has the Bush Administration started to hand out contracts for rebuilding Iraq? Did they bother to consult the 20 million Iraqis about deciding who will renovate their war torn country? Already, US Secretary of State Colin Powell has stated that the coalition countries should be the dominant force in rebuilding Iraq after the war. Did he consult the 20 million on that matter? You talk about freedom, but it is clear that like Rumsfeld, you have a strange concept of freedom.

 

The fact of the matter is that Iraq has simply been seized from one power by a bigger power. Freedom? Only time will tell. But certainly not now.

 

 

[leyh 0]

And speaking of Colin Powell, it was reported that he once responded to a question about how many Iraqis were killed during the first Gulf War with a casual: "It's really not a number that I'm terribly interested in." (New York Times, January 24, 1991, quoted in Rogue State --- A Guide to the World's Only Superpower by William Blum.

 

 

[Guest guest]

What part of "The people of Iraq are free, and no longer have to live in fear under the oppression of a murdering despot who would torture and kill those who would speak out or rise up against him"....do you not understand?

 

Unless you approved of the previous state where the people lived in fear and would not dare to speak out or rise up for fear of reprisal, often times resulting in their death and the raping and torturing & murdering of their families, you are whining for the sake of whining.

 

Place your agenda out upon the table for all to see. You can't really be objecting to a blood thirsty, murderousr Middle Eastern regime being stipped of their ability to rape, torture and murder the innocent civilians of their country, can you?

 

What is your problem?

[Guest guest]

"What is your problem? "

 

He was predicting disaster, as were all those against the war. When disaster didn't come that side looked foolish. Even more so when the war ended in 3 weeks (rather than after the predicted years). More so when half a million civilians weren't killed (one prediction signed my many celebrities). Extremely so when the people in the cities were cheering, and kissing our troops, and giving them flowers, and tearing down the statues of Saddam. In their hearts they were wishing for America to lose. When that didn't happen, they are now left clinging onto scraps to still criticize.

[leyh 0]

When it is certain that facts will only be consistently met with sentiment, there is no point in carrying on a dialogue. History will have the last word. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[theist 1]

leyh,

 

Please give us your idea of a better solution to the problem that was Iraq.

 

The UN idea went on for 12 years with no results. The inspectors being allowed back in only after Bush started sending troops and tanks.

 

What would you have done? I have asked this 5 or 6 times now of various people . I have yet to receive even one response. be the first.

[stonehearted 0]

theist: What would you have done? I have asked this 5 or 6 times now of various people . I have yet to receive even one response. be the first.

 

Babhru: I know this will be rejected by Bush lovers as pie-in-the-sky and impractical, but no one has yet tried something like going in with 60 billion dollars for schools, books, food, and medical supplies. Something like that may build more good will than just kicking ass. Just love-bomb the hell out of 'em. There are of course some logistical problems, like getting the stuff in past the fierce Iraqi army /images/graemlins/wink.gif , but some leaflet bombs might serve to soften things up on the ground for a full-frontal humanitarian assault. Probably less colleateral damage, too.

[Guest guest]

Theist, what is your solution now for the Syria problem?

[leyh 0]

Theist:

 

I would have done exactly the same thing as what the US did to the Soviet Union --- containment through a combination of balance of power politics, diplomacy and the deterrence of Mutually Assured Destruction.

 

The Soviets and the US never fought a "hot" war. That says a lot for the success of containment.

 

The Soviets posed a greater threat to the US then Saddam ever did. The Soviets had weapons of mass destruction aimed squarely at the US. The aim of the Soviets was world domination under Communism and the overthrow of capitalism in US and all over the world.

 

If the Bush Doctrine of pre-emptive strikes had been unleashed on the Soviets, what do you think would have happened?

 

If containment could be used on the Soviet Union, why couldn't it have been used on a tin pot dictator like Saddam Hussein?

 

[Guest guest]

Why somebody so intelligent like you and with knowledge of Krsna and vedic philosophy gets so entangled defending materialistic people?

Don't you remember the sloka in the Bhagavatam about the "fallible soldiers"? pun intended

[Guest guest]

USA told India very clearly they won't tolerate India using pre-emptive strikes towards Pakistan. Any double standarn here?

[stonehearted 0]

"Guest": Why somebody so intelligent like you and with knowledge of Krsna and vedic philosophy gets so entangled defending materialistic people?

 

Babhru: Now wait a holdit! theist and I clearly don't have the same opinion on this issue. However, I've asserted that Krishna consciousness is broad enough that it may embrace devotees with different previous samskaras. Some of us may be inclined to be artists, others business magnates, others warriors; some may find affinity with the approach of Republicans, others Democrats, and others Libertarians or Greens. That stuff is all temporary and relative and has nothing to do with the soul's eternal relationship with Krishna. Srila Rupa Goswami Prabhupada defines devotional service as using our senses to serve Hrishikesha, the Master of the senses, in a state of complete freedom from all material designation (sarvopadhi vinirmuktam). Still, while we carry residual impressions from our past activities, we can expect a rich variety of modes of expression of our budding relationship with Krishna, with a veneer of those impressions. And when we are completely free, we may expect an even richer variety of expression.

 

In the meantime, picking on theist is my prerogative. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[theist 1]

leyh,

 

Every situation is different. Attacking the Soviet Union would have been MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction.

 

The cold war also included various proxy conflicts. Why did the US give stinger missles to the Afghan Mujahadeen? The Soviets were decemating the country with their Hein helicopters. The Afghans called them village destroyers because they would fly in and wipe out an entire village. They really wanted Karachi Pakistan for a warm water port. They all work under the idea of 'my enemies enemy is my friend'. So the US fought them by proxy.

 

Threats against anyone won't work unless them believe those will be backed up. Also containment would not have done much for the 24 million Iraqi's. Another reason is the nature of the threat. Suit case sized nukes can be brought to any major city of the world and set off by a handfull of terrorists. Do you wait or use intelligence and pre-emptive action to prevent it?

 

Recently it came out of some terrorists desire to have some of them infect themselves and then enter countries and spread disease just by minglingly around in highly populated areas. Think about it. Some terrorist flys into Hong Kong from Singapore. This person has pre-infected themselves with small pox. No way that airport security could ever detect it. They spend their last days just going around Hong kong infecting as many as possible. This is how these people think. It's a new world and it ain't pretty.

 

The ONLY way to stop it is to locate these terrorists first and take 'em out. That is the hard reality. Containment is complacency to them and they hope for it.

 

Realize that these people have already declared war. Its not even really pre-emptive in a way. They need to be taught some good lessons in a language they understand. They seem to understand A 1 Abrahm tanks and stealth bombers. Beyond that I think they are illiterate.

 

The terrorists and the states that sponser them have been served a notice.

 

My hope is the US troops rest and then some go back to Afghanistan to solidy that region. Then or maybe conjointly a visit should be payed to the Bekkaa(sp?) Valley in Lebanon.Take out Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad. That one is long over due. That should be a wake up call for Syria. If not well...

 

No need to try and make peaceful Brahmins out of the warrior class.

 

 

[leyh 0]

Dear Theist:

 

As I am currently preparing for my University exams, I probably won't have much time to engage in further discussions on this matter. But still, I like to leave a concluding message.

 

The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate. So it goes. Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. (Martin Luther King, Jr.)

 

Up to half a year ago, I would have dismissed the above words as a load of pacifist drivel and sentimentalism. Like you, I was a devotee of the pre-emptive strike doctrine --- let's take them out before they get to us, we live in the real world, etc. But this war has changed my mind a little.

 

This war has made me realize that the guys taking out the bad guys are not necessarily good guys themselves. 24 million Iraqis free? Maybe next time. For now, it's simply Iraq being seized from one power by a superpower. And with the US military announcing that they would start production in the oilfields near the Southern Iraqi town of Basra (without consulting any of the Iraqis and in clear violation of the Geneva War Convention which explicitly forbids the exploitation of national resources of a conquered country by the conqueror) it is increasingly clear that the US initiated this war for anything but altruistic motives.

 

This war has made me realize that superior firepower can never stop people from hating and inflicting hate crimes and that an ideology based on violence can never bring out real peace. You may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate.

Has the world become a safer place now that Saddam is no longer in power? Has the war eradicated the hateful impulses behind terrorism? Has it eliminated fanaticism? Or has it, as I suspect, only managed to inflame the flames of hatred and anti-Amercian sentiments? Darkness cannot drive out darkness.

 

All this does not mean I have become a peacenik. I still believe in qualified violence. I still believe that every country has the right to take up arms to defend itself. But there is a vast difference between safeguarding one's own home and tearing up the entire neighbourhood to shoot at and ransack the homes of neighbours perceived as a threat, in defiance of the governement --- in this case, the United Nations.

 

One wonders whether the spritual master of George W Bush --- Jesus Christ --- would go along with the Bush Doctrine.

 

This is the age of quarrel and hypocrisy. This world is full of danger at every step. As Srila Prabhupada said to a reporter during a period of tension between Pakistan and India:

 

But suppose Yahya Khan does not kill you? Will you be safe? Then what is the use to go to Yahya Khan? You will die today or tomorrow. If you want to save yourself, then go to Krsna. That is our proposition. Even if you go to Yahya Khan, and he does not fight, then you mean to say that you will live forever? What is the use of flattering Yahya Khan? Flatter Krsna, so that you may be saved perpetually. Why don't you do that?

 

If Srila Prabhupada were here today, he might very well ask: "But suppose Saddam Hussein does not kill you? Will you be safe?"

 

Instead of aligning ourselves with those with materialistic agendas, we should align ourselves with Krsna. The real solution to our problems is not terrorism,suicide bombing,the Bush Doctrine, etc. It is Krsna Consciousness. Any solution which is on the material platform is doomed to failure. Let us try to remember this.

[Guest guest]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Nice words of wisdom. How Singaporeans are doing with SARS?

[leyh 0]

The government seems to be doing a competent job of containing the virus and tracing and isolating those infected. I read in the newspapers yesterday that a SARS test deviced by Singaporean doctors will be avaliable by the end of the week.