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Raguraman

Question on Saankhya

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Hare Krishna,

 

 

Is the saankhya philosophy as it exists today and tthe Saankhya that Lord Krishna mentions the same?

 

Lord Kapila is an incarnation of Lord. I have just started reading this pilosophy.

 

Can anyone explain this further.

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There were two people who propounded the Sankhya philosophy, both named Kapila. One is Krishna's incarnation (mentioned in the Bhagavatam). The other is an imposter, Nirishvara Kapila, who propounded an atheistic version of Sankhya. Both Kapila's had the same name, taught the same school of philosophy, and even had disciples with the same names. The difference is clear in their actual teachings.

 

Kapila the avatara teaches devotional service as the topmost process to self realization. Krishna establishes in the second chapter of the Gita that Sankhya is not devoid of or different from bhakti.

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Hare Krishna J.N.DASjee,

 

The one which I am reading seems to be atheistic one. Atleast it seems to be unconcerned about the principle of GOD.

 

Where is the original teachings of Saankhya that the original Lord Kapila thought.

 

 

The other is an imposter, Nirishvara Kapila, who propounded an atheistic version of Sankhya. Both Kapila's had the same name, taught the same school of philosophy, and even had disciples with the same names.

 

 

May I know the source of this information.

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There might have been many Kapilas. Not two. If you could go through both the Ishwara Kapila and Nirishwara Kapila, without favour, hatred, addictions and prejudices, you will find that both reaches the same end.

 

" Yam saivah samupasate` siva iti brahmeti vedantino

Boudha Buddh iti pramana patava karte`ti naiyyayika:

Ahannityadha Jaina sasanarata: karme`ti meemamsaka:

so ayam vo viddhatu vaanchitaphalam trilokyanatho vibhu: "

 

May the Lord of the Universe, the remover of evil, whom the devotees of Siva worship as 'Siva', the Vedantins as 'Brahma', the Buddhists as 'Buddha", the followers of the

Nyaya philosophy, who are clever in logic, as the "Agent",

those devoted to the Jaina doctrines as "arht", the rituals of the Mimamsa school as "Karma"... fulfil all our desires"

 

These what Sanatana Dharma teaches. All streams has to reach the Ocean, or are absorbed by the Ocean. That is the glory of Sanatana Dharma.

 

=anveshanam=

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If you could go through both the Ishwara Kapila and Nirishwara Kapila, without favour, hatred, addictions and prejudices, you will find that both reaches the same end.

 

 

Actually, the two systems are completely different and incompatible. Their goals are different, and their processes to attain their goals are different. Vyasadeva condemns the atheistic Sankhya school of philosophy in the Brahma-sutras.

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Prabhupada on Sankhya:

 

 

If one tries to nullify the conclusions of the Vedas by accepting an unauthorized scripture or so-called scripture, it will be very hard for him to come to the right conclusion about the Absolute Truth. The system for adjusting two contradictory scriptures is to refer to the Vedas, for references from the Vedas are accepted as final judgments. When we refer to a particular scripture, it must be authorized, and for this authority it must strictly follow the Vedic injunctions. If someone presents an alternative doctrine he himself has manufactured, that doctrine will prove itself useless, for any doctrine that tries to prove that Vedic evidence is meaningless immediately proves itself meaningless. The followers of the Vedas unanimously accept the authority of Manu and Parasara in the disciplic succession. Their statements, however, do not support the atheistic Kapila, because the Kapila mentioned in the Vedas is a different Kapila, the son of Kardama and Devahuti. The atheist Kapila is a descendant of the dynasty of Agni and is one of the conditioned souls. But the Kapila who is the son of Kardama Muni is accepted as an incarnation of Vasudeva. The Padma Purana gives evidence that the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vasudeva takes birth in the incarnation of Kapila and, by His expansion of theistic Sankhya philosophy, teaches all the demigods and a brahmana of the name Asuri. In the doctrine of the atheist Kapila there are many statements directly against the Vedic principles. The atheist Kapila does not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He says that the living entity is himself the Supreme Lord and that no one is greater than him. His conceptions of so-called conditioned and liberated life are materialistic, and he refuses to accept the importance of immortal time. All such statements are against the principles of the Vedanta-sutra.” “If one tries to nullify the conclusions of the Vedas by accepting an unauthorized scripture or so-called scripture, it will be very hard for him to come to the right conclusion about the Absolute Truth. The system for adjusting two contradictory scriptures is to refer to the Vedas, for references from the Vedas are accepted as final judgments. When we refer to a particular scripture, it must be authorized, and for this authority it must strictly follow the Vedic injunctions. If someone presents an alternative doctrine he himself has manufactured, that doctrine will prove itself useless, for any doctrine that tries to prove that Vedic evidence is meaningless immediately proves itself meaningless. The followers of the Vedas unanimously accept the authority of Manu and Parasara in the disciplic succession. Their statements, however, do not support the atheistic Kapila, because the Kapila mentioned in the Vedas is a different Kapila, the son of Kardama and Devahuti. The atheist Kapila is a descendant of the dynasty of Agni and is one of the conditioned souls. But the Kapila who is the son of Kardama Muni is accepted as an incarnation of Vasudeva. The Padma Purana gives evidence that the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vasudeva takes birth in the incarnation of Kapila and, by His expansion of theistic Sankhya philosophy, teaches all the demigods and a brahmana of the name Asuri. In the doctrine of the atheist Kapila there are many statements directly against the Vedic principles. The atheist Kapila does not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He says that the living entity is himself the Supreme Lord and that no one is greater than him. His conceptions of so-called conditioned and liberated life are materialistic, and he refuses to accept the importance of immortal time. All such statements are against the principles of the Vedanta-sutra.” If one tries to nullify the conclusions of the Vedas by accepting an unauthorized scripture or so-called scripture, it will be very hard for him to come to the right conclusion about the Absolute Truth. The system for adjusting two contradictory scriptures is to refer to the Vedas, for references from the Vedas are accepted as final judgments. When we refer to a particular scripture, it must be authorized, and for this authority it must strictly follow the Vedic injunctions. If someone presents an alternative doctrine he himself has manufactured, that doctrine will prove itself useless, for any doctrine that tries to prove that Vedic evidence is meaningless immediately proves itself meaningless. The followers of the Vedas unanimously accept the authority of Manu and Parasara in the disciplic succession. Their statements, however, do not support the atheistic Kapila, because the Kapila mentioned in the Vedas is a different Kapila, the son of Kardama and Devahuti. The atheist Kapila is a descendant of the dynasty of Agni and is one of the conditioned souls. But the Kapila who is the son of Kardama Muni is accepted as an incarnation of Vasudeva. The Padma Purana gives evidence that the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vasudeva takes birth in the incarnation of Kapila and, by His expansion of theistic Sankhya philosophy, teaches all the demigods and a brahmana of the name Asuri. In the doctrine of the atheist Kapila there are many statements directly against the Vedic principles. The atheist Kapila does not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He says that the living entity is himself the Supreme Lord and that no one is greater than him. His conceptions of so-called conditioned and liberated life are materialistic, and he refuses to accept the importance of immortal time. All such statements are against the principles of the Vedanta-sutra.” “If one tries to nullify the conclusions of the Vedas by accepting an unauthorized scripture or so-called scripture, it will be very hard for him to come to the right conclusion about the Absolute Truth. The system for adjusting two contradictory scriptures is to refer to the Vedas, for references from the Vedas are accepted as final judgments. When we refer to a particular scripture, it must be authorized, and for this authority it must strictly follow the Vedic injunctions. If someone presents an alternative doctrine he himself has manufactured, that doctrine will prove itself useless, for any doctrine that tries to prove that Vedic evidence is meaningless immediately proves itself meaningless. The followers of the Vedas unanimously accept the authority of Manu and Parasara in the disciplic succession. Their statements, however, do not support the atheistic Kapila, because the Kapila mentioned in the Vedas is a different Kapila, the son of Kardama and Devahuti. The atheist Kapila is a descendant of the dynasty of Agni and is one of the conditioned souls. But the Kapila who is the son of Kardama Muni is accepted as an incarnation of Vasudeva. The Padma Purana gives evidence that the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vasudeva takes birth in the incarnation of Kapila and, by His expansion of theistic Sankhya philosophy, teaches all the demigods and a brahmana of the name Asuri. In the doctrine of the atheist Kapila there are many statements directly against the Vedic principles. The atheist Kapila does not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He says that the living entity is himself the Supreme Lord and that no one is greater than him. His conceptions of so-called conditioned and liberated life are materialistic, and he refuses to accept the importance of immortal time. All such statements are against the principles of the Vedanta-sutra.

 

 

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Prabhupada:

 

 

Kapiladeva is an incarnation of Krsna, and He gave instructions to His mother, Devahuti. We must distinguish between the two Kapilas. One Kapila is this Bhagavan Kapila, and the other Kapila is the atheist Kapila. Bhagavan Kapila is also known as Devahuti-putra Kapila. Both Kapilas expounded Sankhya philosophy, but the atheist Kapila expounded it without understanding, perception or realization of God. On the bank of the Bindu-sarovara Lake, Kapiladeva personally expounded Sankhya philosophy to His mother, Devahuti, just as Krsna personally expounded the knowledge of Bhagavad-gita to His friend Arjuna. Like Arjuna, Devahuti was aware that she was before her spiritual master, as indicated in the following verse. Indeed, Lord Brahma had informed her that her son was a powerful incarnation.

 

 

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saunaka uvaca

kapilas tattva-sankhyata

bhagavan atma-mayaya

jatah svayam ajah saksad

atma-prajnaptaye nrnam

 

Sri Saunaka said: Although He is unborn, the Supreme Personality of Godhead took birth as Kapila Muni by His internal potency. He descended to disseminate transcendental knowledge for the benefit of the whole human race.

 

na hy asya varsmanah pumsam

varimnah sarva-yoginam

visrutau sruta-devasya

bhuri trpyanti me ’savah

 

Saunaka continued: There is no one who knows more than the Lord Himself. No one is more worshipable or more mature a yogi than Me. He is therefore the master of the Vedas, and to hear about Him always is the actual pleasure of the senses.

 

Lord Kapila’s Instructions:

 

na yujyamanaya bhaktya

bhagavaty akhilatmani

sadrso ’sti sivah pantha

yoginam brahma-siddhaye

 

Perfection in self-realization cannot be attained by any kind of yogi unless he engages in devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for that is the only auspicious path.

 

prasangam ajaram pasam

atmanah kavayo viduh

sa eva sadhusu krto

moksa-dvaram apavrtam

 

Every learned man knows very well that attachment for the material is the greatest entanglement of the spirit soul. But that same attachment, when applied to self-realized devotees, opens the door of liberation.

 

 

 

 

mayy ananyena bhavena

bhaktim kurvanti ye drdham

mat-krte tyakta-karmanas

tyakta-svajana-bandhavah

 

Such a sadhu engages in staunch devotional service to the Lord without deviation. For the sake of the Lord he renounces all other connections, such as family relationships and friendly acquaintances within the world.

 

titiksavah karunikah

suhrdah sarva-dehinam

ajata-satravah santah

sadhavah sadhu-bhusanah

 

The symptoms of a sadhu are that he is tolerant, merciful and friendly to all living entities. He has no enemies, he is peaceful, he abides by the scriptures, and all his characteristics are sublime.

 

mad-asrayah katha mrstah

srnvanti kathayanti ca

tapanti vividhas tapa

naitan mad-gata-cetasah

 

Engaged constantly in chanting and hearing about Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the sadhus do not suffer from material miseries because they are always filled with thoughts of My pastimes and activities.

 

 

satam prasangan mama virya-samvido

bhavanti hrt-karna-rasayanah kathah

taj josanad asv apavarga-vartmani

sraddha ratir bhaktir anukramisyati

 

bhaktya puman jata-viraga aindriyad

drsta-srutan mad-racananucintaya

cittasya yatto grahane yoga-yukto

yatisyate rjubhir yoga-margaih

 

In the association of pure devotees, discussion of the pastimes and activities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is very pleasing and satisfying to the ear and the heart. By cultivating such knowledge one gradually becomes advanced on the path of liberation, and thereafter he is freed, and his attraction becomes fixed. Then real devotion and devotional service begin.

 

Thus consciously engaged in devotional service in the association of devotees, a person gains distaste for sense gratification, both in this world and in the next, by constantly thinking about the activities of the Lord. This process of Krsna consciousness is the easiest process of mystic power; when one is actually situated on that path of devotional service, he is able to control the mind.

 

asevayayam prakrter gunanam

jnanena vairagya-vijrmbhitena

yogena mayy arpitaya ca bhaktya

mam pratyag-atmanam ihavarundhe

 

Thus by not engaging in the service of the modes of material nature but by developing Krsna consciousness, knowledge in renunciation, and by practicing yoga, in which the mind is always fixed in devotional service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one achieves My association in this very life, for I am the Supreme Personality, the Absolute Truth.

 

sri-bhagavan uvaca

devanam guna-linganam

anusravika-karmanam

sattva evaika-manaso

vrttih svabhaviki tu ya

animitta bhagavati

bhaktih siddher gariyasi

 

Lord Kapila said: The senses are symbolic representations of the demigods, and their natural inclination is to work under the direction of the Vedic injunctions. As the senses are representatives of the demigods, so the mind is the representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The mind’s natural duty is to serve. When that spirit of service is engaged in devotion to the Personality of Godhead, without any motive, that is far better than salvation.

 

jarayaty asu ya kosam

nigirnam analo yatha

 

Bhakti, devotional service, dissolves the subtle body of the living entity without separate effort, just as fire in the stomach digests all that we eat.

 

naikatmatam me sprhayanti kecin

mat-.-sevabhirata mad-ihah

ye ’nyonyato bhagavatah prasajya

sabhajayante mama paurusani

 

A pure devotee who is attached to the activities of devotional service and who always engages in the service of My lotus feet never desires to become one with Me. Such a devotee, who is unflinchingly engaged, always glorifies My pastimes and activities.

 

atho vibhutim mama mayavinas tam

aisvaryam astangam anupravrttam

sriyam bhagavatim vasprhayanti bhadram

parasya me te ’snuvate tu loke

 

Thus because he is completely absorbed in meditation upon Me, the devotee does not desire even the highest benediction obtainable in the upper planetary systems, including Satyaloka. He does not desire the eight material perfections obtained from mystic yoga, nor does he desire to be elevated to the kingdom of God. Yet even without desiring them, the devotee enjoys, even in this life, all the offered benedictions.

 

imam lokam tathaivamum

atmanam ubhayayinam

atmanam anu ye ceha

ye rayah pasavo grhah

 

visrjya sarvan anyams ca

mam evam visvato-mukham

bhajanty ananyaya bhaktya

tan mrtyor atiparaye

 

Thus the devotee who worships Me, the all-pervading Lord of the universe, with unflinching devotional service, gives up all aspirations for promotion to heavenly planets or happiness in this world with wealth, children, cows, home or anything in relationship with the body. I take him to the other side of birth and death.

 

nanyatra mad-bhagavatah

pradhana-purusesvarat

atmanah sarva-bhutanam

bhayam tivram nivartate

 

The terrible fear of birth and death can never be forsaken by anyone who resorts to any shelter other than Myself, for I am the almighty Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the original source of all creation, and also the Supreme Soul of all souls.

 

jnana-vairagya-yuktena

bhakti-yogena yoginah

ksemaya .-mulam me

pravisanty akuto-bhayam

 

The yogis, equipped with transcendental knowledge and renunciation and engaged in devotional service for their eternal benefit, take shelter at My lotus feet, and since I am the Lord, they are thus eligible to enter into the kingdom of Godhead without fear.

 

etavan eva loke ’smin

pumsam nihsreyasodayah

tivrena bhakti-yogena

mano mayy arpitam sthiram

 

Therefore persons whose minds are fixed on the Lord engage in the intensive practice of devotional service. That is the only means to attain the final perfection of life.

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saankya as found in the saankya-suutras, brahma-suutras, the Mahaabhaartha and VP is strictly atheistic. In contrast to this, the SB alone speaks about a theistic saankya and elevates Kapila to avatarhood.

 

Sometime during 0 AD to 500 AD saankya branched off, with some brances taking on theist concepts. In all probability, one of these theistic branches inspired the author of SB to present a peculiar version saankya.

 

Cheers

 

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saankya as found in the saankya-suutras, brahma-suutras...is strictly atheistic.

 

 

The Sankya-sutras are authored by the atheistic Nirisvara Kapila, thus they are not theistic. The Brahma-sutras refute many schools of thought including his atheistic brand of Sankhya.

 

 

saankya as found in the... VP is strictly atheistic.

 

 

This isn't true at all.

 

 

In contrast to this, the SB alone speaks about a theistic saankya and elevates Kapila to avatarhood.

 

 

Kapila's avatarhood is mentioned in countless places. Sri Mahadevi Bhagavata, Skandha 1, Chapter 3; Bhagavata Kilippattu, First Skandha; Brahmanda Purana, Chapter 93; Valmiki Ramayana, Bala-kanda, Sargas 39 and 40; Mahabharata, Anusasana Parva, Chapter 149, etc.

 

Vishnu Purana 3.2.54 while describing Vishnu's incarnations for the four yugas states:

 

krite yuge param jnanam kapiladisvarupadhrik..

 

"In the Satya yuga Lord Vishnu appears as Kapila to deliver the supreme knowledge."

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Mahaabhaartha - Saankya appears in the gita and also during a conversation between Bhiishma and yudhistira. In both instances, saankya is atheistic.

 

Saankya suutras - This is already known.

 

Brahma-suutras - Saankya is refuted on the grounds that it is atheistic.

 

Vishnu puraanaa - I need some time to get hold of a copy of VP. I will reserve my comment until then.

 

1. All old works such as MB, SS and BS talk about atheistic saankya only. Kapila is identified as the founder of this system, and *none* of these works recognize a different Kapila who founded a different theistic saankya. Another point is although these works allude to atheistic saankya, none of them refer to Kapila as niriishvara.

 

2. To the best of my knowledge, Kapila doe not appear in the avatar lists of any of the above works. I do not follow your translation of the VP verse, which is partial. What in the verse equates to avatar of vishnu? Can you produce the full verse?

 

Thanks

 

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2. To the best of my knowledge, Kapila doe not appear in the avatar lists of any of the above works.

 

 

Then please refer the chapters cited above, and your knowledge may enhance. /images/graemlins/smile.gif They all refer to Kapila as an incarnation of Vishnu. What is the point of saying "to the best of my knowledge", when you haven't read the chapters referenced.

 

 

I do not follow your translation of the VP verse, which is partial. What in the verse equates to avatar of vishnu? Can you produce the full verse?

 

 

I was busy and didn't type up all the verses (I assumed interested parties could look up the verses themselves for verification). It is a group of four or five verses explaining Lord Vishnu's incarnations in every yuga. I didn't have time to type all, so I typed the single line mentioning Kapila. Without the other four verses it will look incomplete at first glance, but if someone took the time to check the cited Vishnu Purana verse it would be self-evident. I will try to type up the verses some time today and post them.

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Parashara is speaking to Maitreya:

 

caturyuge 'pyasau vishnuh

sthitivyaparalakshana

yugavyavastham kurutte

yatha maitreya tacchrinu

 

"O Maitreya, I will next tell you how Lord Vishnu effects the preservation in the four ages. Hear this."

 

Then Parashara begins explaining the incarnations Lord Vishnu takes in each yuga:

 

krite yuge param jnanam kapiladisvarupadhrik

dadati sarvabhutanam sarvabhutahite ratah

cakravartti-svarupena tretayam api sa prabhuh

dushtanam nigraham kurvan paripati jagat-trayam

vedamekam caturbhedam kritva shakhasatairvibhuh

karoti bahulam bhuyo vedavyasasvarupadhrik

vedamstru dvapare vyasya kalerante punarharih

kalkisvarupi durvrittan marge sthapayati prabhuh

evamesha jagat sarvam paripati karoti ca

hanti canteshvanantatma nastyasmadi vatireki yat

 

Thus Kapila, Ramachandra, Vyasa and Kalki are stated to be the incarnations of Hari for maintaining the four yugas.

 

 

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