madhav 0 Report post Posted December 31, 2002 >>we admited that at some period in his life BVT ate meat? Would that cancel out all his beautiful writings? Damage our faith in what he revealed? << - theist i do not know if he did or did not, but as far as i kow, it does not cancell out all his works. Those who clime, sometime could fall once in a while. krishna firgives. their good karma out weigh/ Jai Sri Krishna! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raga 0 Report post Posted January 1, 2003 Is it the same Charandas baba who introduced the "Nitai Gaur Radhe Shyam" mantra? It is him. As far as I am aware of, the account presented by Lalita Prasad Thakur about him in the letter you cited is not accurate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vaishnava_das108 1 Report post Posted January 1, 2003 As far as I am aware of, the account presented by Lalita Prasad Thakur about him in the letter you cited is not accurate. Interesting... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Does anyone have a copy of "Vaktivinod Charit," or is LPT telling a likely tale? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 4, 2003 I don'know who you are, for your name is not listed in the database of Srila Prabhupada's disciples.But here is a word of advise :stop wasting valuable time questioning the character and integrity of the Vaisnava acaryas lest such aparadha will earn you a place in hellish planets for millions of births to come. Chant your rounds and seek out the association of sincere devotees who are committed to following the instructions of the spiritual master. For further instructions, please refer to verse 4.34 in the Bhagavad Gita. Hare Krshna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
madhav 0 Report post Posted January 4, 2003 >>for your name is not listed in the database of Srila Prabhupada's disciples.<< who has this database please? do more than one person have it? i guess it must be secret. just curious, how many people prabhupada initiated? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stonehearted 0 Report post Posted January 5, 2003 It's on the World Wide Web. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jahnava Nitai Das 2 Report post Posted January 5, 2003 I don'know who you are, for your name is not listed in the database of Srila Prabhupada's disciples. Neither are Brahma's or Narada's names listed in that database. What's your point? What makes you conclude this poster doesn't chant his rounds? What makes you think he hasn't been associating with devotees? Just curious as to how you draw conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vaishnava_das108 1 Report post Posted January 5, 2003 I don'know who you are, for your name is not listed in the database of Srila Prabhupada's disciples. That would not be surprising, since I am not a disciple of Srila Prabhupada. But here is a word of advise :stop wasting valuable time questioning the character and integrity of the Vaisnava acaryas lest such aparadha will earn you a place in hellish planets for millions of births to come. Thanks for your advice, but I am not questioning the character/integrity of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. None of my posts have reflected this attitude. I was simply surprised to find out this fact about eating meat. If anyone would have said it, I would not have bothered, but since this information apparently comes from his own hand, I felt that it might be a worthy topic to discuss. In this regard, the topic now seems to have diverted to the authenticity of the Svalikhita-jivani. Chant your rounds and seek out the association of sincere devotees who are committed to following the instructions of the spiritual master. I am trying to do that very diligently. Thank you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raga 0 Report post Posted January 5, 2003 Does anyone have a copy of "Vaktivinod Charit," or is LPT telling a likely tale? LPT says it was written by Krishnadas Junior. It is rather certain that such a book does exist, but this in itself does not make the claim into a fact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jagat 1 Report post Posted January 5, 2003 I have this book. It is not so clear to me that Charan Das "surrendered" that way. Krishna Das Babaji accompanied Bhaktivinoda to Puri and acted as his secretary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jagat 1 Report post Posted January 5, 2003 Guest: we don't know who you are either! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2005 Hari Bol! Please accept my humble obeisances. I am very happy upon finding this nice conversation between so many humble devotees. My name is jayaGopala dasa. I am aspiring to become the insignificant servant of Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja. My parents were both disciples of Srila Prabhupada and so I was born in ISKCON and lived in temples a lot. I took initiation from Srila Gurudeva because he removed all my doubts about Krsna Consciousness and revealed to me that everything positive about my life from the beginning is only due to the influence of Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada was able to shower the entire world with the thrilling nectar of devotional service in such a short time. He left from India with 40 rupees in his pocket... and he could never get that money exchanged in America. His story is exquisitely beautiful and inspiring. The principle rupanuga gaudiya acaryas are all nitya-siddha. They are kaya-vyuha of Srimati Radhika so they do not have their origin in the tatastha sakti. In other words they come from Srimati Radhika directly like Sri Rupa Manjari and not from maha-visnu. Srila Bhaktivinoda's pranama mantra confirms this: namo bhaktivinodaya sacidananda namine gaura sakti svarupaya rupanuga varayate Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura revealed in a small lecture that he realized that Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura was the direct expansion of Sri Gadadhara Pandit (gaura-sakti svarupa). Once, there was an argument among the disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. They couldnt reconcile the difference between the definitions of kanistha/madhyama/uttama givin by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and the definition givin by their own Gurudeva Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura in their commentaries to upadesamrta 5. My Param Gurudeva Srila Bhaktiprajnana Kesava Gosvami (who gave sannyas to Srila Prabhupada and who was extremely intamite with him) asked permission of his god-brothers to speak and then gave the following perfect explanation: "...The first point is that Jagadguru Srila Prabhupada [sarasvati Thakura] has associated with Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura since his very birth. From his childhood he studied vaisnava literatures such as Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, ujjvala-nilamani, and sri caitanya caritamrta under Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's tuition, and heard his explanations of Vedanta-sutra and Srimad Bhagavatam. He is steeped exclusively in the Bhaktivinoda dhara (the flowing current of his conceptions). At the same time he is an unparalleled scholar, who is throughly versed in Veda, Vedanta and all sastra. It was he who acquainted us with the gracious Sriman Mahaprabhu, His associates and especially with Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Without a doubt, he knows the moods of Bhaktivinoda Thakura's heart. He must certainly have seen the translation and commentary that Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has written on this verse. Yet he has still given a distinct explanation in his own translation and Anuvrtti commentary. He has certainly done this intentionally. Therefore we must understand the commentary of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura through the medium of Srila Prabhupada and we should give prominence to Srila Prabhupada's commentary..." --from: Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Gosvami-His Life and Teachings (by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja). The reason I transcribed this pastime is because it illustrates guru nishta. The people present in that discussion were extremely advanced such as Srila Bhakti Rakshaka Sridhara Maharaja, my Param Gurudeva and others. Many of them were eternal associates of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. They had absolutely know doubt about the perfect conclusions of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura or their own guru. If someone has developed any faith in Prabhupada then he can consider: "Srila Prabhupada was so great, but who gave him shelter? That person must have been so great!" That was Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada. And who gave him shelter? That was Srila Gaura Kisora Dasa Babaji Maharaja. He was constantly weeping in seperation mood from the service of Srimati Radhika. By his bhajan the entire world was saved from completely abandoning the pursuit of love of God. Who gave him shelter? Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. How great must Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura be?? The conclusion I wanted to come to is that there is no advantage in trying to understand the pastimes of Krsna and His eternal associates in relation to ordinary morals of this world. This will cause us great distress. Krsna's pastimes with the gopis for instance cannot be reconciled if we take them to be ordinary manifestation of maha-maya. THEY ARE NOT. All of Krsna's pastimes are the work of yoga-maya. Similarly all of His associates who descend only for the purpose of giving us the highest love of God are completely within the shelter of yoga-maya even if it appears to be otherwise. We should not doubt Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura at all. Srila Gaurakisora Dasa Babaji Maharaja never did. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati and Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada never doubted him. All we know about Krsna Conciousness or Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura comes from only a small particle of their causeless mercy. Please forgive me if I wrote anything offensive. I have heard these things from my gurudeva and I tried to share them. If there is any mistake this is my fault. If anything is correct, this is the causeless mercy of my Srila Gurudeva. hare krsna. 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Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2005 Though I agree that the letter cited from Lalita Prasad Thakura is surprising, I don't think Prabhupad was practically speaking any less in presenting himself as a pure devotee and so forth. "Yes, whoever you tell the chant to, it is effective. You have heard it from me and my disciples, similarly I have heard it from my Guru Maharaja, and so on, and on. Because you have heard it from a pure devotee of the Lord, therefore it is transmitted from you to another." ============ REF. Letter to: Andrea Temple -- Los Angeles 6 March, 1968 "Pure devotee" as pointed out by someone else can simply be taken to refer to someone who follows the regulative principles. I'm surprised that you do not see the obvious differences between this Prabhupada quote and LPT's letter, in which LPT not only states that he is a "perfect devotee," but also goes to great lengths to state how he is well loved by all devotees, other devotees are not as authentic as he is, etc. He makes it a point to emphasize that other Gaudiya devotees are not really authentic, although he never really explains why. At least Prabhupada would explain his objections vis-a-vis Gaudiyas he disagreed with. I've never seen anything written by Prabhupada that even approximates the hubris exhibited by this letter attributed to LPT. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 26, 2005 Has our Srila Prabhupada written anywhere that Srila Bhaktivinode ate meat? then where is the argument. It appears through the thread almost an argument to allow those of us who may for some time followed strictly the code applied to us by Srila Prabhupada at the time of initiation [ do not eat meat ] to the present where we do not follow so closly, 3 or two regs.So a beer now and then is therapeutical nest'pas....oh only if you are a Ksatriyas you say ...loads of supporting sastra for that argument if you consider yourself one...a Ksatriya that is .. whoa where does it end next thing some one will be offensive enough to find some critizism of our Srila Prabhupad....like .... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theist 1 Report post Posted August 26, 2005 I think you read too much into it. No one is claiming license. Bhaktivinode himself speaks of his meat eating. Enough said. That's all. End of story. The question was did he eat meat. The answer is yes. So are you going to stop reading Jaiva Dharma now? Of course not. Are you going to go out and slaughter a goat? Of course not. What's the problem? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
