The Real Terrorism

[paul108 0]

I was just shown this, and thought it warranted a new thread.

 

--------

 

The Real Terrorism

by Dr. Will Tuttle

 

We in the United States should not be quick to retaliate against those responsible for the September 11 airplane attacks, or to feel that we are merely the innocent victims of irrational hatred or unwarranted evil.

 

In the scant three days between the attacks and George W. Bush's vow to "rid the world of evil," over 75,000 people died of starvation, and it was completely ignored by the media. Essentially, we kill 25,000 people every day because they could easily be fed by the abundance of grain we produce, but we simply do not care about them, and we kill them by withholding, stealing, and wasting the food they could eat. This is the evil terrorism we have committed and that underlies the retaliation we have experienced, and it is this terrorism that we ought to be devoted to ridding in our world. Recognizing this evil is crucial to understanding the dynamics of violence in the world today, and against the U.S. in particular.

 

Because 5,500 of "our" people have been killed, we are in a delirium of outrage, and are motivated to do whatever it takes to stop the cause of this outrage. Why does the tragic and preventable killing of 25,000 people daily not outrage us? Why are they not "our" people also?

 

We care about our people, but not about other people, and this narrow attitude is exactly why we have been attacked. It should be a call for us to examine our attitudes and actions in the world community, and try to see ourselves as others see us. It would be an enlightening, maturing, and humbling experience.

 

Right now, we ought to remember these things:

 

Eleven years ago, our Operation Desert Storm brutally bombed the people of Iraq, demolishing their public utilities, transportation, communications, health care, water distribution, and industrial systems. This devastating attack was motivated by our desire to assert control over the Middle Eastern oil supplies to which our wasteful lifestyle makes us desperately addicted. We killed hundreds of thousands of people, most of them civilians, crippled their life support systems, and thoroughly despoiled their delicate desert environment. Then, over the past eleven years, we have applied sanctions against Iraq that have not allowed critically needed medical and repair supplies into the country. On account of this blatant cruelty, it is estimated that over 200,000 people, mostly children, have died; many of them painful lingering deaths due to inadequate water, food, and basic sanitation.

 

For this entire time, people in the U.S. have been indifferent to the suffering that we are directly causing, while we mindlessly pursue a course of escalating consumerism, militarism, and global domination. There is thus absolutely no one in the Moslem world who is more hated than the senior George Bush who instigated the Gulf War, and to the tradition-minded Arab world, the son who continues the work of the father, which may help explain why they are particularly desperate, and alarmed by George W. Bush and the world-dominating stance he has taken since his inauguration.

 

The United States, with only 4.5% of the world's population, has a military budget equal to 50% of the world's military spending! This same 4.5% of the world's people consumes 35% of the world's petroleum and other resources, and produces 35% of the world's toxic pollution. Americans tend to be amazingly blind to the consequences that their wasteful and arrogantly consumptive lifestyle forces onto people in the rest of the world. Predictably, the U.S. response to the recent attack was to add even more money to the already absurdly bloated military budget, in an effort to destroy the evil we imagine is lurking somewhere out there. Perhaps the evil is within: our own insensitivity and lack of understanding and caring.

 

In order to ensure a continual flood of cheap products pouring through retail outlets, through ever-larger U.S. homes, and into over-filled waste dumps, the enormous transnational corporations of the world increasingly enslave populations of less-industrialized countries, forcing them off their land and onto industrial assembly lines, devastating their communities, and exploiting the land for resources while fouling it with unrestrained pollution.

 

It is well documented that U.S.-based corporations like General Electric, Coca-Cola, Amoco, Chevron, Exxon-Mobil, and others pay repressive local governments to kill and torture people who try to organize labor unions or stop "development" to protect their lives, customs, and environment. These rich and powerful corporations! , whose only loyalty is to their own bottom line, are increasingly running the U.S. government at every level, as is common knowledge, and are directing policies that increase their profits and spread their influence. We are told this is "good for America," and it is obvious that "President" Bush is their puppet. The corporate-dominated media keeps the U.S. public uninformed and distracted by trivia so that Americans increasingly live in a world completely divorced from the cruel reality their self-centered lives are causing. Until such a surprise attack happens.... Then we wallow in patriotic jingoism, self-righteousness, and phony religious rhetoric invoking God to be on our side as we rid the world of the evil that has just dropped out of the sky onto our innocent heads for no apparent reason. We ought to know that chickens will eventually come home to roost.

 

U.S. agribusiness is also an ugly reality behind much of the misery the U.S. inflicts on the rest of the world. If we continue to ignore this, we will just get louder wake-up calls, or perish by numbing ourselves to death. Of the fifty billion mammals and birds imprisoned worldwide in the appalling concentration camps for food animals called factory farms, and slaughtered every year to satisfy the human craving for animal flesh, ten billion are in the U.S.

 

This agribusiness industry is the largest and most powerful U.S. industry and its negative effect on world health and welfare is impossible to overestimate. In the U.S. alone, the breadbasket of the world, over 80% of all the wheat, oats, barley, soybeans, and corn are fed to livestock and thus mostly squandered. Thus, while thousands of people die of starvation daily, we feed most of our grain, and over half the fish that is caught, to fatten animals for slaughter. These unfortunate animals are fed enormous quantities of antibiotics, hormones, and other drugs to keep them alive on the oppressive factory farms, which also use huge amounts of toxic chemicals to kill the pathogens that thrive in their overcrowded conditions.

 

To satisfy the desire for cheap flesh, eggs, and dairy products, we thus waste most of the grain we grow, pollute the earth at an unsustainable level, and foster ever more highly resistant microorganisms in our war against them. This industrialization of food production has fostered our second largest industry, the medical-pharmaceutical industry, which feeds and fattens itself on the huge number of sick and fat Americans eating the sick and fat animals the factory farms produce. With our heads buried in our feeding troughs, we don't ever look up to see the interconnections to see the results of our actions.

 

It doesn't stop at our borders. We import millions of pounds of animal flesh every year from impoverished nations, and the grain and land that fed these animals was taken by our superior wealth from the local people, who are, therefore, hungry, poor, and in despair. The big U.S. agribusiness and food corporations and their cohorts in the drug business, like ConAgra, Cargill, Monsanto, Smithfield, IBP, Tyson, McDonald's, and others, along with the World Bank, IMF, and the world financial powers, are aggressively pushing animal diets and U.S.-style factory farming throughout the world. The U.S. military, often working covertly with oppressive local regimes, enforces the corporations' agenda against displaced, impoverished, hungry people. The Pentagon and the World Trade Center have been symbolic and actual centers of oppression.

 

As rich people continue to buy vast amounts of grain by purchasing hamburgers, pork, turkey, cheese, and chicken, those with less money are marginalized, and can afford no food, and face starvation. We rich Americans eat the fat of the land and pollute and despoil it for everyone else. We spread our system for our own profit so a rich minority of the world's population eats the wasteful luxury of animal fat while millions go hungry.

 

Now we want to build an even bigger fence to keep others out of our feedlot, and a bigger stick to hit them with. The rainforests are destroyed to provide land for cattle, the oceans are fished to the brink of destruction, the lands and waters are farmed into toxic desolation to fatten the poor animals we slaughter, and those humans unfortunate enough to resist our greed, we condemn with words of self-righteousness, anger, and revenge. The true terrorism is our overt killing of people to get the oil and resources we crave, and our covert killing of people through enforcing an economic system that starves and exploits them.

 

Unless we curb these appetites for killing, and the arrogance, hypocrisy, and violence that go with them, we will author our own destruction, and probably the destruction of many others as well. The ancient wisdom ever holds: Violence begets violence. As we sow, so shall we reap.

 

Now is the time to sow seeds of understanding, patience, and inner reflection, and to truly live more simply, encourage a more plant-based diet, and change our foreign policy, with a view toward caring for all the humans on this beautiful earth, all the precious creatures here, and all those of the future generations who depend upon us to be responsible for our actions. As Gandhi said, "There is enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed."

 

Many will be fasting and praying for deeper understanding and peace from September 21 through September 30. Perhaps you would like to participate.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

<h2>Psychological Survival--They hate us for a reason</h2>

 

Mr. Novak is the George F. Jewett scholar at the American Enterprise Institute

 

September 25, 2001 2:30 p.m.

 

I was in Bratislava, Slovakia, about to give a lecture when news of the bombing of the Twin Towers was brought to the lectern. In the days that followed, my friends and I were deeply touched by the tears, sympathy, and signs of solidarity we saw all around us. Weekend football (soccer) games were canceled; a three-minute silence was observed Friday morning just before noon; in Prague, vigil lights and flowers were strewn on Wenceslaus Square, as they had been some decades before in honor of the fallen Jan Palluch; ecumenical prayer services were held in St. Vitus Cathedral, in the presence of President Havel and the U.S. ambassador.

 

It was a little harder, in Europe, to get the news. Basically, we had CNN and, in the morning, the International Herald Tribune. I found myself playing Sherlock Holmes, detail by detail, to try to arrive by inductive logic at a picture of the whole.

 

I figured two things out soon enough. First, the "root cause" of terrorism is not poverty. The biographies of the perpetrators, like those of the Students [Taliban] of Afghanistan, show that they are from middle-class elites, educated, schooled, technically adept.

 

Second, their governing ideology is a lethal and perverse mixture of political nihilism ? destroy, destroy, destroy ? with a patina of stray snippets of Muslim religiosity. Terror does not spring from the essence of Islam, which it in fact contradicts. Instead, it gathers together, in one lethal poison, every text and historical incident of Muslim history that encourages both death to infidels and military adventurism.

 

"Islam has never in history taken over a nation by voluntary conversion," reads the terrorists' manual prepared by Osama bin Laden, "but only by war." That manual (which I cite by oral memory, only having heard it read aloud) calls for asymmetrical war ? a war not by armies arrayed, but by sneaky acts of terror ? against the leading powers of the West.

 

The impulse of this war, I infer, is not religious, but political. Unlike the wars of the 20th century, its goal is not even rhetorically "progressive." Its goal is not to correct or improve the West. Its goal is not even to make the Islamic nations more democratic or prosperous or innovative. Its goal is to remove the goad that the existence of the West ? proactively democratic, proactively urging nations to economic development ? has presented to Muslim elites.

 

Radical elites cannot stand that goad. It causes them unendurable torment. It places them in a psychologically unbearable position.

 

Radical elites in the Middle East have given up on the dream of building progressive societies by their own devices. They cannot abide by the demands of democratic living. Their socialist, anti-capitalist tradition blocks them from even considering economic development based upon private property, enterprise, innovation, and discovery. The ideal of the equality of women and men profoundly disturbs their inner peace. The practices of open dissent, loyal opposition, negotiation, compromise, ambiguity in practice, and diversity of religious worship and belief seem to them socially destructive.

 

Therefore, the ordinary daily practices of the West fill the souls of these radicals both with powerful inner attractions, to which they cannot admit, and with deep feelings of fear, terror, and revulsion. If Western ways triumph, their psyche, which is rooted in an altogether different reality, comes under threat of extinction. If international progress prevails, they will break apart inwardly under its pressure, disintegrate, evaporate into nothingness. There is, they think, no place for them in a world of progress, international style.

 

The Taliban "government" is not, in fact, building up the infrastructure of Afghanistan, laying out new roads, or even keeping existing roads in repair. It is not building schools, clinics, or economic centers. It has no plans for progress of any kind. The Taliban is not a government at all, but a military-security force rooted in religio-political ideology, not ethnic cohesion. Its leadership and many of its crack cadres are disproportionately Arab, not Afghan.

 

The Taliban ideal is to enforce an abstract idea ? an academic's idea ? of the simple life of yesteryear, in an Arab rather than an Afghani style. Its first emphasis is to keep women covered and uneducated and out of the schools ? as if they do not exist in public life at all. It imposes the discipline not of the mountains but of the desert, not of history but of abstract ideals. (The Buddhist monumental carvings had endured for centuries, only now to be condemned by a new set of standards.) Born from warlike resistance to atheistic Communist invasion, the Taliban turned to hating the outside world.

 

If I understand correctly, the Taliban are profoundly hated throughout Afghanistan, nearly as much as the Soviets were hated. That is one reason I suspect that the bombing of the World Trade Center was on a changeable time line, awaiting the assassination of the main political and military threat to the Taliban, the Panther of Panjshir: General Massoud, the Invincible, whose lightly armed but undefeated troops had been forced by the superior Taliban arms to retreat into the mountains of the northeast. Only after the assassins, disguised as Belgian journalists, managed to deceive Massoud and complete their dirty work was the signal given for the operation in New York and Washington ? or so I imagine. If the New York bombings went first, Massoud would have been on guard. Without Massoud, domestic opposition to the Taliban is relatively leaderless.

 

A very large section of the educated middle class in Middle Eastern countries, unlike the Taliban and the Terrorists, has not given up on the dream of economic progress ? progress in literacy, schooling, and medical care, among other things ? in their region. Many see in Islam resources for empowering economic growth. Of itself, Islam is more powerfully anti-socialist than it is anti-property, anti-market, or anti-innovation. Islam once inspired a great civilization that far outshone the Christian West (then submerged by barbarian invasions) in wealth, commerce, architecture, and the fine arts. This period of Islamic preeminence lasted from about the 11th through the 14th centuries. Its civilizing effects remain still a powerful social memory. That is why the rough barbarism and political nihilism of today's terrorists repulse and embarrass many. Bin Laden's is not the face of Islam that they love and cherish. And they would love to be free from the very real threat of terror in their own midst.

 

For the truth is that nearly every traditional institution of the Middle East is now under threat from the terrorists. It is quite difficult for Islamic scholars and clergy to condemn the terror outright, or to point out that it is a perfidious perversion of Islam. They do not want to be kneecapped, or to have their children kidnapped on the streets. (This is true even in such cities as London and Paris.) Only when there is a huge social convulsion against the terrorists, a thorough effort by all international and national institutions to make war on terrorism, will more and more middle-class Muslims resolve to join in. They will be grateful for liberation from the daily fear they now experience. But they cannot move to insist upon it until they feel they have a reasonable chance of success.

 

Many Americans have also been ready to go on "suicide missions" in the name of their country, following the flag, as the boys at Utah Beach did, or as the men of New York's Fire Department did who climbed the Towers floor by floor to their death. So too did the bomber pilots flying into nearly solid walls of flak over German industrial centers in World War II. We Americans, too, are willing to die for our fellows and to call upon God as we fall.

 

The terrorists' vision of the malevolent role of the United States in the world must have been reinforced, or at least comforted, by the violent anti-globalization rhetoric and actions in Seattle, Prague, and Genoa.

 

I find it quite easy to sympathize with the equanimity of Muslim terrorists facing certain death. What I do not find quite credible is the view that their motivation is chiefly religious, or that their comfort is a vision of paradise for "martyrs." The evidence seems to show a predominant will to destroy, and to rejoice in the humiliation of those destroyed. One would not have to be a Muslim to share in this will. Islamic faith has nothing essential to contribute to it, and much with which to redirect it.

 

Among our journalists (and law professors) we seem to find a disproportionate number who might be described as secular fundamentalists. They never met a religion they didn't dislike; their understanding of religion is practically zero. They take any conviction for which people are willing to die to be a kind of "fanaticism.Martyrdom" is not on their charts. The prospect of "paradise" after death makes them nervous. Not understanding such terrain, they too easily display their own gullibility, unable to make crucial distinctions.

 

The motivation of the terrorists was not essentially religious, but only given a religious cover to serve political purposes ? to incite a larger Islamic vs. Western war. They were trying to use Islam for their own destructive purposes. They were not trying to make Islam become better, greater, more beautiful, an ornament to the human race. Their aim was to destroy the United States and its friends.

 

The terrorists imagine the United States to be an enemy of their own souls. To give their lives to destroy that enemy is a way of relieving the unbearable inner pressure they feel.

 

I don't doubt that they in part enjoyed their time in the United States, and in other Western countries, and admired the free society even while they also loathed and plotted to humiliate it. Sitting around a swimming pool in Florida, having a drink in a bar, going easily where they wished, being accepted and respected by colleagues and friends ? all this could not have been entirely unpleasant to them, or wholly irksome. Being human, they are not immune to the vision of the natural rights of all human beings. Yet they could easily think of an America they hated.

 

That very inner division of soul made living in peace with themselves intolerable. In a flaming act of destruction, they brought themselves psychological rest.

 

To be perfectly clear about this inner division, let me distinguish its two phases. First, America represents an intolerable goad to progress, political and economic, in human rights and in innovation, demanding constant change, the rule of law, equality between the sexes, and pluralism of worship. When elites, or a portion of the elites, give up on the possibility of realizing these goals in national life, they do not cease feeling these restless imperatives in their own hearts. One solution to the inner contradiction is to destroy the source of that unrest ? to display before one's astounded soul that the United States is helpless and contemptible.

 

Second, even for one who begins to believe that the condition of the poor in the Middle East and elsewhere can be improved ? and that justice and due process can be brought back to political life, with an end to secret police and repression and rule by political favor ? the pressure of modern ideals (lifting up the poor, the protection of human rights) entails so much psychological change, such a radical reconstruction of both the existing outer world and the personal inner world, that as far as the eye can see there will be only turmoil and strife, inhuman efforts, and a high probability of failure. Wouldn't it be easier not to go forward into the 21st century? Wouldn't it be easier to restore the calmer, quieter world of the 12th or 13th century?

 

There was a time when Arab culture was happy and at peace with itself, without invidious comparison with others, without the imperative to become what it is not ? when one could eat, drink, and be merry; worship, pray, and know inner peace; and dwell in peace and happiness in home and harem. The soul that is asked to become modern (even postmodern) suddenly, today, can recall (or thinks it can recall) a far happier and better world than today's. Certainly, people were far poorer. But poverty is not mutually exclusive with happiness; on the contrary, wealth brings cares and unhappiness. The inner soul longs for the world of the 12th century. It cannot bear the tensions of the 21st.

 

In a word, the imperative of progress injures the souls of the less-developed world, especially the souls of educated elites. That imperative introduces an at times unbearable tension into the soul.

 

Worse still, this imperative has a single, symbolic source.

 

Among its symbols yet to be destroyed are the Statue of Liberty, the U.S. Capitol, the White House, the John Hancock Building in Boston, the Sears Tower in Chicago, the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, and others.

 

To protect their own egos from dissolution, certain souls today see no choice but to destroy these symbols, and to render what they stand for contemptible. They do not die for Islam, which of itself condemns what they do; they die to save their own humiliated egos.

 

[Bhaktavasya 0]

Originally posted by paul108:

I was just shown this, and thought it warranted a new thread.

 

--------

 

The Real Terrorism

by Dr. Will Tuttle

We in the United States should not be quick to retaliate against those responsible for the September 11 airplane attacks, or to feel that we are merely the innocent victims of irrational hatred or unwarranted evil.

 

In the scant three days between the attacks and George W. Bush's vow to "rid the world of evil," over 75,000 people died of starvation, and it was completely ignored by the media. Essentially, we kill 25,000 people every day because they could easily be fed by the abundance of grain we produce, but we simply do not care about them, and we kill them by withholding, stealing, and wasting the food they could eat. This is the evil terrorism we have committed and that underlies the retaliation we have experienced, and it is this terrorism that we ought to be devoted to ridding in our world. Recognizing this evil is crucial to understanding the dynamics of violence in the world today, and against the U.S. in particular.

 

Because 5,500 of "our" people have been killed, we are in a delirium of outrage, and are motivated to do whatever it takes to stop the cause of this outrage. Why does the tragic and preventable killing of 25,000 people daily not outrage us? Why are they not "our" people also?

 

We care about our people, but not about other people, and this narrow attitude is exactly why we have been attacked. It should be a call for us to examine our attitudes and actions in the world community, and try to see ourselves as others see us. It would be an enlightening, maturing, and humbling experience.

 

Right now, we ought to remember these things:

 

Eleven years ago, our Operation Desert Storm brutally bombed the people of Iraq, demolishing their public utilities, transportation, communications, health care, water distribution, and industrial systems. This devastating attack was motivated by our desire to assert control over the Middle Eastern oil supplies to which our wasteful lifestyle makes us desperately addicted. We killed hundreds of thousands of people, most of them civilians, crippled their life support systems, and thoroughly despoiled their delicate desert environment. Then, over the past eleven years, we have applied sanctions against Iraq that have not allowed critically needed medical and repair supplies into the country. On account of this blatant cruelty, it is estimated that over 200,000 people, mostly children, have died; many of them painful lingering deaths due to inadequate water, food, and basic sanitation.

 

For this entire time, people in the U.S. have been indifferent to the suffering that we are directly causing, while we mindlessly pursue a course of escalating consumerism, militarism, and global domination. There is thus absolutely no one in the Moslem world who is more hated than the senior George Bush who instigated the Gulf War, and to the tradition-minded Arab world, the son who continues the work of the father, which may help explain why they are particularly desperate, and alarmed by George W. Bush and the world-dominating stance he has taken since his inauguration.

 

The United States, with only 4.5% of the world's population, has a military budget equal to 50% of the world's military spending! This same 4.5% of the world's people consumes 35% of the world's petroleum and other resources, and produces 35% of the world's toxic pollution. Americans tend to be amazingly blind to the consequences that their wasteful and arrogantly consumptive lifestyle forces onto people in the rest of the world. Predictably, the U.S. response to the recent attack was to add even more money to the already absurdly bloated military budget, in an effort to destroy the evil we imagine is lurking somewhere out there. Perhaps the evil is within: our own insensitivity and lack of understanding and caring.

 

In order to ensure a continual flood of cheap products pouring through retail outlets, through ever-larger U.S. homes, and into over-filled waste dumps, the enormous transnational corporations of the world increasingly enslave populations of less-industrialized countries, forcing them off their land and onto industrial assembly lines, devastating their communities, and exploiting the land for resources while fouling it with unrestrained pollution.

 

It is well documented that U.S.-based corporations like General Electric, Coca-Cola, Amoco, Chevron, Exxon-Mobil, and others pay repressive local governments to kill and torture people who try to organize labor unions or stop "development" to protect their lives, customs, and environment. These rich and powerful corporations! , whose only loyalty is to their own bottom line, are increasingly running the U.S. government at every level, as is common knowledge, and are directing policies that increase their profits and spread their influence. We are told this is "good for America," and it is obvious that "President" Bush is their puppet. The corporate-dominated media keeps the U.S. public uninformed and distracted by trivia so that Americans increasingly live in a world completely divorced from the cruel reality their self-centered lives are causing. Until such a surprise attack happens.... Then we wallow in patriotic jingoism, self-righteousness, and phony religious rhetoric invoking God to be on our side as we rid the world of the evil that has just dropped out of the sky onto our innocent heads for no apparent reason. We ought to know that chickens will eventually come home to roost.

 

U.S. agribusiness is also an ugly reality behind much of the misery the U.S. inflicts on the rest of the world. If we continue to ignore this, we will just get louder wake-up calls, or perish by numbing ourselves to death. Of the fifty billion mammals and birds imprisoned worldwide in the appalling concentration camps for food animals called factory farms, and slaughtered every year to satisfy the human craving for animal flesh, ten billion are in the U.S.

 

This agribusiness industry is the largest and most powerful U.S. industry and its negative effect on world health and welfare is impossible to overestimate. In the U.S. alone, the breadbasket of the world, over 80% of all the wheat, oats, barley, soybeans, and corn are fed to livestock and thus mostly squandered. Thus, while thousands of people die of starvation daily, we feed most of our grain, and over half the fish that is caught, to fatten animals for slaughter. These unfortunate animals are fed enormous quantities of antibiotics, hormones, and other drugs to keep them alive on the oppressive factory farms, which also use huge amounts of toxic chemicals to kill the pathogens that thrive in their overcrowded conditions.

 

To satisfy the desire for cheap flesh, eggs, and dairy products, we thus waste most of the grain we grow, pollute the earth at an unsustainable level, and foster ever more highly resistant microorganisms in our war against them. This industrialization of food production has fostered our second largest industry, the medical-pharmaceutical industry, which feeds and fattens itself on the huge number of sick and fat Americans eating the sick and fat animals the factory farms produce. With our heads buried in our feeding troughs, we don't ever look up to see the interconnections to see the results of our actions.

 

It doesn't stop at our borders. We import millions of pounds of animal flesh every year from impoverished nations, and the grain and land that fed these animals was taken by our superior wealth from the local people, who are, therefore, hungry, poor, and in despair. The big U.S. agribusiness and food corporations and their cohorts in the drug business, like ConAgra, Cargill, Monsanto, Smithfield, IBP, Tyson, McDonald's, and others, along with the World Bank, IMF, and the world financial powers, are aggressively pushing animal diets and U.S.-style factory farming throughout the world. The U.S. military, often working covertly with oppressive local regimes, enforces the corporations' agenda against displaced, impoverished, hungry people. The Pentagon and the World Trade Center have been symbolic and actual centers of oppression.

 

As rich people continue to buy vast amounts of grain by purchasing hamburgers, pork, turkey, cheese, and chicken, those with less money are marginalized, and can afford no food, and face starvation. We rich Americans eat the fat of the land and pollute and despoil it for everyone else. We spread our system for our own profit so a rich minority of the world's population eats the wasteful luxury of animal fat while millions go hungry.

 

Now we want to build an even bigger fence to keep others out of our feedlot, and a bigger stick to hit them with. The rainforests are destroyed to provide land for cattle, the oceans are fished to the brink of destruction, the lands and waters are farmed into toxic desolation to fatten the poor animals we slaughter, and those humans unfortunate enough to resist our greed, we condemn with words of self-righteousness, anger, and revenge. The true terrorism is our overt killing of people to get the oil and resources we crave, and our covert killing of people through enforcing an economic system that starves and exploits them.

 

Unless we curb these appetites for killing, and the arrogance, hypocrisy, and violence that go with them, we will author our own destruction, and probably the destruction of many others as well. The ancient wisdom ever holds: Violence begets violence. As we sow, so shall we reap.

 

Now is the time to sow seeds of understanding, patience, and inner reflection, and to truly live more simply, encourage a more plant-based diet, and change our foreign policy, with a view toward caring for all the humans on this beautiful earth, all the precious creatures here, and all those of the future generations who depend upon us to be responsible for our actions. As Gandhi said, "There is enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed."

 

Many will be fasting and praying for deeper understanding and peace from September 21 through September 30. Perhaps you would like to participate.

 

 

Excellent post, Paul 108!

 

[Tarun 6]

Yet another viewpoint:

According to 2 Indian devotees, one lifetime in ISKCON, there are One

Billion Moslems (of Islam) in the world, and Six million members of

Islam in the United States.

They both tell me that no matter what

images you see on TV, big meetings with Islam ministers, your loving

Islamic students at your local school, etc.; that, basically, ALL ONE

BILLION members of Islam worldwide, and All Six Million members of Islam

in US, are ALL sympathetic to terrorists, and BIn Laden, and many

actively (and now COVERTLY) support the terrorists; mentally,

financially, philosophically, etc.

They are all actually dangerous.

The Truth of ONENESS of God's presence, as preached by Muhammad,

etc., has been totally and universally perverted; and, like many

religions, they now believe in superiority of Islam to every other

religion. (Specifically they would love to destroy Hinduism).

They universally hate their being suppressed, and United States

bankrolling Israel $3 Billion/year used to kill and suppress them, they deeply resent, and feel this WTC and Pentagon

attacks are totally warranted and send a message they want to get out.

However, often terrorism causes a huge backlash, as has happened.

This may also simply be a prelude to Great World War III between real powers of Russia and US.

However, more attacks are coming, maybe to your neighborhood, and any members of

Islam, no matter how sympathetic, innocent and "Americanized", etc, they seem to appear: be discerning; protect your back.

Regardless of how you feel about US, governments, terrorists, etc.

just be aware of this extra potential danger.

Your local friendly mosque members would love to destroy your temple, and probably you.

Allah is great. It is ONE, and simultaneously different.

But Islam today is long gone in a different direction.

 

http://community.webtv.net/lakshmi/TheLakshmiSampradaya

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Islamist extremists firebombed the Denver temple in the '80s. They were caught and prosecuted.

[recruit 0]

Originally posted by paul108:

Why does the tragic and preventable killing of 25,000 people daily not outrage us? Why are they not "our" people also?

Of course they are our people! I think folks might be surprised to know that a whopping 80% of Amerikans would agree. Come on, the propaganda is clearly a campaigne to keep the folks of these hallowed lands believing that our ONLY motives overseas are humane, that we are stamping out world hunger and establishing liberty and justice for all! After all, that is what being an Amerikan means to us.

 

We care about our people, but not about other people, and this narrow attitude is exactly why we have been attacked.

Look, until Amerikans figure it out that our desires are not being carried out, that corporate Amerika is ruling how poor nations are treated, and and I know what that means. One day, Corporate Amerika will enslave its own people in sweat shops too. And the pollution from Corporate Amerika is getting close to fatal. In our lifetimes, 97% of Amerikan redwood ancient forests were cut down. Corporate Amerika is quickly cutting and burning away at the rest of the world's ancient forests. Trees alone can save us from a sudden ice age. And what's the president's solution to the gluttony caused slaughter? Consume consume consume. 'My fellow americans.' --Richard Nixon. 'Fellow citizens.' --George W. Bush. Spooky.

 

In order to ensure a continual flood of cheap products pouring through retail outlets, through ever-larger U.S. homes, and into over-filled waste dumps,...

Yes, but the important fact is that Corporate Amerika has created artificial need for the over-filled waste dumps. It is the propaganda that consumerism feeds economy feeds stability and prosperity which oils the machinery of products designed to break down. And the excuse is, 'you get what you pay for.'

 

...the enormous transnational corporations of the world increasingly enslave populations of less-industrialized countries, forcing them off their land and onto industrial assembly lines,...

Yes, but you do not see the enslavement being enacted here? Corporate Amerika is enslaving the world and using the American People's idealism, liberty and justice for all, to fuel the world military domination which they control. Duh.

 

U.S. agribusiness is also an ugly reality behind much of the misery the U.S. inflicts on the rest of the world.

Yes but it is important to recognize that the Amerikan Consumer is not being benefited by this rape performed by Corporate Amerika. A vegetarean must pay equal price for potatoes to meat, and sometimes more. Yet the fact that it takes ten pounds of grain to produce one pound of meat, thus raping the fields of grain that would feed the hungry, is a hidden fact that 99% of meat eaters do not know. True enough though that this butchero-agro-business is made possible by the rampant bloodlust indulged in by the average Amerikan. This is what Amerikans must be taught, to boycott Corporate Amerika and gluttony. But we must teach them the higher truths so they can give up the lower addictions. Harinam Sankirtan Ki Jaya!!!!!!!!!

 

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna

Krsna Krsna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama

Rama Rama Hare Hare

 

Does anybody know why my signature doesn't show automatically?

 

This is it--

Let freedom ring!

In Krsna we trust!

 

[This message has been edited by recruit (edited 10-10-2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by recruit (edited 10-10-2001).]

[jijaji 0]

yes sir...

 

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 10-10-2001).]

[recruit 0]

Originally posted by rand0M aXiS:

... Unlike the wars of the 20th century, its goal is not even rhetorically "progressive." Its goal is not to correct or improve the West. Its goal is not even to make the Islamic nations more democratic or prosperous or innovative. Its goal is to remove the goad that the existence of the West ? proactively democratic, proactively urging nations to economic development ? has presented to Muslim elites.

And the idea that the world must be run on economics as the supreme freedom is being is being assumed axiomatic why?

 

Their socialist, anti-capitalist tradition blocks them from even considering economic development based upon private property, enterprise, innovation, and discovery.

Yet because Corporate Amerika has been given the rights of individuals, thus giving them the unfair advantage against the actual individuals, the Amerikan People, Corporate Amerika is in the position of committing earthocide airocide waterocide and more, creating inequality of opportunity, as well as many unfed children. How can we let the children of the world go hungry and feel we are vaisnavas? Prasadam must be distributed everywhere and keep their little spirits happy!!!!!

 

The ideal of the equality of women and men profoundly disturbs their inner peace.

LOL! As it does men everywhere!

 

The practices of open dissent, loyal opposition, negotiation, compromise, ambiguity in practice, and diversity of religious worship and belief seem to them...

In Krsna We Trust! All glories to the Amerikan Dream!

 

Therefore, the ordinary daily practices of the West fill the souls of these radicals both with powerful inner attractions, to which they cannot admit, and with deep feelings of fear, terror, and revulsion.

Ahh yes, and some of our western activities, like millions of abortions, like using aborted fetuses to experiment with age-defying substances and produce them, yeah, it gets pretty ghoulish. Truth is the whole world must be taught to water the root, Krsna, and give up selfish or evil activities. East and West. If Western ways triumph, their psyche, which is rooted in an altogether different reality, comes under threat of extinction. If international progress prevails, they will break apart inwardly under its pressure, disintegrate, evaporate into nothingness. There is, they think, no place for them in a world of progress, international style.

 

...The Taliban is not a government at all, but a military-security force...

So it appears.

 

Its first emphasis is to keep women covered and uneducated and out of the schools ? as if they do not exist in public life at all.

And that is not at all the worst of it. Women can be killed by their husbands, must perform for them and more. Many ISKCON men must learn to realize that their oppression of women has been more like Muslims than devotees. We must learn to apologize to women.

 

The terrorists' vision of the malevolent role of the United States in the world must have been reinforced, or at least comforted, by the violent anti-globalization rhetoric and actions in Seattle, Prague, and Genoa.

Yet again, we seem to be being fed here the people-sleeper pills. Coverage of those protests was not only one-sided, but squelched. Demonstrations in London weren't even reported in Our Land of Free Press. Or barely. And no one is seeming to see the fact that it is Corporate Amerika who is running things for global domination, setting up the stage for swift removal of our rights liberties and pursuits of happiness. Think about it, why are computers on the FEMA list of things they can confiscate if they so choose?

 

The motivation of the terrorists was not essentially religious, but only given a religious cover to serve political purposes ? to incite a larger Islamic vs. Western war.

But let's face it, no motivation justifies the slaughter of innocent people like this. Perhaps if the timing of the attack were synchronized with the buildings being empty, and if plainfuls of innocents were not used as the weapons, it could be considered a justified war target. Targetting innocents is always unnacceptable for the rules of war.

 

Harer Namah!

Harer Namah!

Harer Namah Eva Kevalam!

 

Kalau Nasteyeva!

Nasteyeva!

Nasteyeva Gatir Unyatah!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Chant the Holy Name!

Chant the Holy Name!

There is no other way!

Take to the streets in every town and village, and carry this sankirtana benediction to all the suffering souls of this world.

 

Let Freedom Ring!

In Krsna We Trust!

[Guest guest]

Quote:

 

The United States, with only 4.5% of the world's population, has a military budget equal to 50% of the world's military spending!

 

Reply:

 

Just see - and does the world community really know the extent of and dreadfull nature of the newest conventional, atomic, biological, chemical, energy, [and every other kind of] weapons they are stocking?

 

Why are they spending so much on weapons and war?

 

Why are America's republican leaders seemingly creating a wholesale slaughterhouse for mankind?

 

 

 

Bhakta don muntean

[Guest guest]

So the other day we saw demoniac attacks in London - just before that - in India - so much chaos.

 

I think it is important to see this - less as a demon issue and - more as a kuli [quarrel] yuga issue.

 

Our world is now too surcharged with the qualities of passion and ignorance - and in the present age - there is quarrel over trivial matters - what to speak of actually 'provoking' people!

 

For the evil of terrorist attacks there are NO excuses - but - there are causes - and - we hardly hear a mention from the western leaders about these real causes.

 

Of course - some of these leaders - who are fuel to these causes - have no desire to see the baiting stop. No the point and counter-point - is calculated.

 

As noted in this

posting:

 

'Considering that their propaganda centers around a militated [and militarisation] teaching of an emerging ‘‘world government’’ - ‘‘the beast government’’ - which they say is [at this time] the ‘‘European Union’’ - declaring the E.U. - to be a so-called - ““satanic revived roman empire”” - it thus becomes a conflicted scenario - when we see the leaders in the U.S.A. ascribe to this theology.

We know that to some extent - these extremist ideologies and all their ill-motivated implications are embraced by Mr. George W. Bush.

 

Certainly Mr. Bush may think and believe whatever he likes - even ill-reasoned illusions - yet he as the leader of the most weaponized nation in the world - could one day present himself as a [further] global menace - in respect to how his 'doctrines' [continue to] affect U.S. foreign policies.'

 

His comments today - made to the asuras responsible - 'bring it on' - say it all - he is baiting them!

 

Now he can hijack this G-8 summit's purpose and over-ride it with his war mongering.

 

In the pages of Bhagavata Purana we hear how one pious King felt after the great war that ushered in this age of quarrel - he certainly wasn't apatetic about the loss caused by his orders:

 

"King Yudhishtira said: O my lot! I am the most sinful man! Just see my heart, which is full of ignorance! This body, which is ultimately meant for others, has killed many, many phalanxes of men...I have killed many boys, bräähmaëëas, well-wishers, friends, parents, preceptors and brothers. Though I live millions of years, I will not be relieved from the hell that awaits me for all these sins...There is no sin for a king who kills for the right cause, who is engaged in maintaining his citizens. But this injunction is not applicable to me." [srimad Bhagavatam 1.8.48-50]

 

In His purport Srila Prabhupada notes:

 

"...It was simply horrible for him to think of such killing, and therefore he was thinking of residing in hell for millions and billions of years."

So of course I wonder - do all these 'leaders' with blood on their hands think that - 'There is no sin for a king who kills for the right cause, who is engaged in maintaining his citizens' - because that isn't the case in their 'point and counter-point' scenario.

 

I listened in the past to Mr. Bush say that he doesn't ever wonder about the propriety of his choices to invade Iraq and thus cause the death and displacement of millions of innocent people.

 

Without doubt the people of Iraq see Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair as terrorists. A matter of perspective?

 

AS noted the western leaders have permitted the world to be very unequal - there is excess in one part and - nothing in others.

 

We must not forget that there are so many non-humans being snuffed out at every moment - for gut and pocket-book and what is the result?

 

Prabhupada says:

 

"...when the demoniac population of thieves, rogues, and criminals steadily increases, the kingdom is filled with chaos and terror."

 

So what happens we all live in a state of terror - all at the mercy of their point and counter-point non-sense!

 

We are all to be terrorized soon - soon - no freedom of speech - it may be called sedition mongering better keep my mouth shut - so even now - everyone is terrorized - they must be brave to speak-out against western rogues baiting of other rogues in the under-developed areas of the globe.

 

So now on the plea of national security and this unending manufactured 'emergency' - we have lost all sense of normal life - nope no life - we all must live in fear? What is that? Is that life? When shall we ask ourselves 'do I have to live under terrorism conditions' - I must do it?

 

It is not the life we all were led to believe we would have.

 

Srila Prabhupada says:

 

"...The people are innocent, we have seen this everywhere...it is only...rascal leaders who have spoiled everything by fooling the people for their personal advantage..." [Letter to Amarendra 4/03/72]

 

Also Prabhupada said:

 

"...At the present moment these rulers are so powerful that by hook or by crook they capture the highest posts in government and harass countless numbers of people on the plea of national security or some emergency. Then again, one asura defeats another asura, but the public continues to suffer. Therefore the entire world is in a precarious condition..." [sB 10.3.21]

"...This is a civilization where a blind man is guiding a few others or many other blind men. So what is this civilization? The leader, he is a rascal. He does not know what is the aim of life, and he has become leader. So many talking..." [bhagavatam lecture April 16, 1976]

 

So of course that is a fact of life in America now - with their 'patriot act' - and if certain leaders there get their way - that'll be the fact of life everywhere!

 

Today I hear Mr. Bush 'talking' about the hate and evil within the hearts of the rogue leaders [who killed and injured innocent people in today's attack] - but when will he see that hate and evil is seeded out from his own heart?

 

We need to see the 'real leaders' at the executive head within this world force/create a proper scenario wherein these fascist rogue leaders [from ALL nations] have no theaters to 'play' in - no more global power for them by a collective decision - to cut them off.

 

These point counter-point leaders will go on and on - we must all decide NOW that their relevance has been invalidated - by the saner section of humanity - any honest leader cannot stay with 'these' so-called 'government men'.

 

The good leaders in our world may still want to rally around Bush and Co. and that is clearly - a mistake - and there is no doubt - what Krishna says is all important here:

 

"And that action performed in ignorance and delusion without consideration of future bondage or consequences, which inflicts injury and is impractical, is said to be action in the mode of ignorance." [bG 18.25]

 

What is it going to take for them to address the causes of this political terror?

 

Of course - the head of the state should never fail in chasing an real enemy - but neither should they cultivate them by ill-dealing!

 

In the Sri Ishopanishad text two - the cause is indirectly outlined:

 

"Everything animate or inanimate that is within the universe is controlled and owned by the Lord. One should therefore accept only those things necessary for himself, which are set aside as his quota, and one should not accept other things, knowing well to whom they belong."

 

So therein is the problem - 'one should therefore accept only those things necessary for himself, which are set aside as his quota, and one should not accept other things' - and what does Srila Prabhupada say:

 

"...In modern society there is always a great quarrel between the laborers and the capitalists.

 

This quarrel has taken an international shape, and the world is in danger.

Men face one another in enmity and snarl just like cats and dogs.

 

Sri Ishopanishad cannot give advice to the cats and dogs, but it can deliver the message of Godhead to man through the bona fide acaryas (holy teachers).

 

The human race should take the Vedic wisdom of Sri Ishopanishad and not quarrel over material possessions...

 

There can be no peace if the communists or capitalists or any other party claims proprietorship over the resources of nature, which are entirely the property of the Lord.

 

The capitalists cannot curb the communists simply by political maneuvering, nor can the communists defeat the capitalists simply by fighting for stolen bread.

 

If they do not recognize the proprietorship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all the property they claim to be their own is stolen.

 

Consequently they will be liable to punishment by the laws of nature. Nuclear bombs are in the hands of both communists and capitalists, and if both do not recognize the proprietorship of the Supreme Lord, it is certain that these bombs will ultimately ruin both parties..." [iso mantra 2]

 

Srila Prabhupada also says:

 

"...There is no head. They are thinking simply arms wanted, defense, and fight amongst themselves. That’’s all. Everyone is thinking simply arms wanted. And what they will do with the arms? Fight between themselves, that’’s all..." [interview June 18, 1976]

 

In historical context:

 

"...Just like the atomic bomb. They are meant for creating disaster, that’’s all. What else they can do? And now everyone is having atomic weapon, just like India has now got. That means they are preparing, by nature’’s course they are preparing for war, and ““I put my atomic bomb on your head, and you put on my head. You die, I die, that’’s all.”” They simply die. Now what was the result of the disastrous war twice? The whole European nations ruined. They are not no more rich. I saw in Paris, in Germany. They are not as rich as the Americans. Because American inland, there was no such big war, so their opulence is existing, but on account of these two wars, British completely finished. Yes. British completely. It is now... Hitler wanted that...That was Hitler’’s declaration..." [conversation July 02, 1974]

 

So do we all just watch and - the history will repeat itself again? Unchecked - it will be wars again - this time they will be global.

 

Recall the point:

 

'Considering that their propaganda centers around a militated [and militarisation] teaching of an emerging ‘‘world government’’ - ‘‘the beast government’’ - which they say is [at this time] the ‘‘European Union’’ - declaring the E.U. - to be a so-called - ““satanic revived roman empire”” - it thus becomes a conflicted scenario - when we see the leaders in the U.S.A. ascribe to this theology.'

 

Of course - since the inception of the republican - 'Strategic Defense Initiative' - Program was OVER twenty years ago - it necessitates the question - WHAT is the program’’s factual - technological implementation level - at this point?

 

We might also ask whether this program has a planed abysmal surveillance system with energy-based weapons - a system able to target and strike any geographic point on the globe’’s surface?

 

What if some of the hardware they’’ve been installing in space over the last twenty years actually became such a threat? Whatever the factual situation - who can argue - the long range potentials - are not good.

 

Additionally - if this program is as they say to defend North America - and specifically the U.S. - from intercontinental ballistic missile strikes - then we must ask - just who is this ‘‘shield’’ supposed to protect ‘‘North America’’ from?

 

People may be surprised to learn that it is an ill-perceived threat from the European Union - NOT the so-called Arab rogue leaders [who aren’’t able to send missile strikes over the ocean] that the ‘‘republicans’’ have been [and are] fortifying this space-based ‘‘shield’’ for!

 

It isn’’t exactly being spurred-on by a fear of Asia’’s missile capabilities either.

 

Just see - even the NAFTA was [and is] an attempted counteraction - to the economic alliances growing out of the European Union.

 

All these point counter-point 'leaders' must soon understand - violent retaliations are not any good way of inducing reformations in each other.

 

Sometimes if someone is slighted by these governments he'll simply be thinking - "Oh when shall a vote depose these rascals?" - and when they are unable see that happen - there enters all potential that international terrorism can become domestic - just see as an example - that evil slug - Timothy Mcvey and - the Oklahoma bombing - why did he do it? There are how many anti-government militias in the U.S. - all armed to the teeth?

 

Isn't America's leaders setting up her people for domestic home spun terrorism - by harassing its citizens and - by inducing them into the 'expensive' [to the tax payer] - state of terror - in which they now live?

 

[it would seem the only choice in the next presidential election for America - is Nader - yes - RALPH NADER for PRESIDENT in 2008!

 

I think that the 'democratic party' under the Clintons has become a ill-version of 'republican light' - so - the best choice was and will be RALPH NADER - if only the world could vote for their next President - given that we all live in America's present cold dark shadow.]

 

As noted - the Israeli/Palestinian conflict must soon be resolved and - who can deny that Bush and Co. achieved nothing but ignominy through this loutish regime change in Iraq?

 

When shall it be acknowledged that they have simply spoiled everything? Expectations of violence free settlements to the political strife in the middle east - are now abjectly marginalized.

 

Leading to the invasion - Bush and Co. interfered with the members within the U.N. Security Council - yes - when they trounced everyone’’s faith in global diplomacy - by deceiving the U.N. Security Council.

 

Of course - by ‘‘spying’’ [wiretaps] on the offices of the [then] member nations of the Security Council - please don’’t forget that this ‘‘spying’’ did go on and is it still going on? [why are they even spying on ordinary people like me and you?]

 

It’’s an ill-program of machinations - ‘‘spying’’ that thus compromises the sovereignty of other leaders - leaders that they [were] are allegedly hoping to count on.

 

Who can consequently deny that they were actually seeding deep levels of distrust - and what shall be the result for the U.N.? Shall it become like the former League of Nations?

 

They have usurped global resolve - and are directing it as they see fit - and they opt out of the international criminal court - and they opt out of so much more - all that stands in the way to becoming a unilateral global director...

 

So what do we do? Do the decent leaders let it all go on?

 

Of course - in speaking to the need for the ‘‘support’’ that Bush is seeking - one does not ask for international support and then concoct nearly everyone into a being a suspect.

 

His comments - 'if you’’re not with us you’’re with the terrorists' - say it all.

 

Invading Iraq wasn’’t about protecting America.

 

One cannot overstate the resultant level of Iraqi suffering - and we are not yet sure of the consequential outcomes for Iraq - nor ultimately - the world.

 

Their actions demonstrate that the estimation of the Bush administration is that the "U.N." is now - "a useless debating club" and - "irrelevant" [their past words!] - what hope can there be for the "U.N." and those Nations who do honor it?

 

When shall the more ethical members of the U.N. see the faltering capacity for him - and millions like him - to renounce this proclivity/propaganda - which groups like his embrace?

The fact is - it was the vast support of the U.S. evangelical movements which 'installed' him in the post of president in the last election and - everyone knows that he [with help] hoodwinked his way to the post in the first election!

 

He doesn't get a third term - or shall he amend that as well? [there has been a bill put forward] Of course his party may again 'capture' the Whitehouse in 2008?

 

 

So while he and his party are now seemingly connecting with the E.U. and its leaders - now that they are in power they are seeding the next global war - with their nemesis EUROPE or their - 'satanic revived roman empire' - and the conflict will be born out of the middle east peace process.

 

So as our world [soon?] embarks upon the historic resolution of the Occupation of the Palestinians - good leaders - MUST be aware of these points about the calculative and reactive nature of regimes - headed by leaders like Mr. Bush.

 

Certainly - the leaders of the U.S. and the U.K. cannot be [in any fashion] participants to the brokering of this proper ‘‘Resolution’’.

 

The U.K. - because of their particular past histories in the region [and present complicity in Iraq] and most specifically - in affecting the original 'Partition'.

 

The U.S. - due to their past and current activities in the region - and the intimated issues surrounding Mr. Bush’’s views regarding a so-called ‘‘prophetic future’’ and thus - the future disposition of the middle east.

 

All that is needed from these two nations in the final equation - is to remit Reparations.

 

The global community is capable of fixing the problems manufactured by the colonial powers - outside their persistent intrusion and hindrances.

 

Srila Prabhupada says:

 

"This age of Kali [quarrel] will certainly be full of all activities of Kali [quarrel], but this does not mean that the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men, or above all the devotees of the Lord should sit down tightly and become callous to the reactions of the age of Kali [quarrel]. In the rainy season certainly there will be profuse rainfalls, but that does not mean that men should not take means to protect themselves from the rains." [sB 1.17.28, purport]

 

 

Bhakta don muntean