Paradox? Haridasa Thakura is both Prahlada and Brahma?

[gHari 0]

In CC 17.71 Srila Prabhupada writes in his purport that Haridasa Thakura is an incarnation of Prahlada Maharaja:

<center>haridAsa ThAkurere karila prasAda

AcArya-sthAne mAtAra khaNDAila aparAdha

</center>

haridAsa ThAkurere--unto HaridAsa ThAkura; karila--did; prasAda--benediction; AcArya-sthAne--in the home of Advaita AcArya; mAtAra--of SacImAtA; khaNDAila--vanquished; aparAdha--the offense.

 

After this incident the Lord blessed HaridAsa ThAkura and vanquished the offense of His mother at the home of Advaita AcArya.

 

PURPORT

On the mahA-prakAza day, Lord Caitanya MahAprabhu embraced HaridAsa ThAkura and informed him that he was none other than an incarnation of PrahlAda MahArAja. When VizvarUpa took sannyAsa, SacImAtA thought that Advaita AcArya had persuaded Him to do so. Therefore she accused Advaita AcArya of this, which was an offense at His lotus feet. Later Lord Caitanya induced His mother to take the dust of Advaita AcArya's lotus feet, and thus her vaiSNava-aparAdha was nullified.

 

In a Srimad Bhagavatam purport, SrIla VizvanAtha CakravartI ThAkura is quoted as noting that Haridasa Thakura is an incarnation of Lord Brahma:

SB 11.5.33

dhyeyaM sadA paribhava-ghnam abhISTa-dohaM

tIrthAspadaM ziva-viriJci-nutaM zaraNyam

bhRtyArti-haM praNata-pAla bhavAbdhi-potaM

vande mahA-puruSa te caraNAravindam

 

dhyeyam--fit to be meditated upon; sadA--always; paribhava--the insults of material existence; ghnam--which destroy; abhISTa--the true desire of the soul; doham--which amply reward; tIrtha--of all the holy places and great saintly personalities; Aspadam--the abode; ziva-viriJci--by the greatest of demigods, Lord Siva and BrahmA; nutam--which are bowed down to; zaraNyam--most worthy of taking shelter of; bhRtya--of Your servants; Arti-ham--which relieve the distress; praNata-pAla--O protector of all who simply offer respects to You; bhava-abdhi--of the ocean of birth and death; potam--which are a suitable boat (for crossing); vande--I offer my homage; mahA-puruSa--O Lord MahAprabhu; te--to Your; caraNa-aravindam--lotus feet.

 

My dear Lord, You are the MahA-puruSa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and I worship Your lotus feet, which are the only eternal object of meditation. Those feet destroy the embarrassing conditions of material life and freely award the greatest desire of the soul, the attainment of pure love of Godhead. My dear Lord, Your lotus feet are the shelter of all holy places and of all saintly authorities in the line of devotional service and are honored by powerful demigods like Lord Siva and Lord BrahmA. My Lord, You are so kind that You willingly protect all those who simply bow down to You with respect, and thus You mercifully relieve all the distress of Your servants. In conclusion, my Lord, Your lotus feet are actually the suitable boat for crossing over the ocean of birth and death, and therefore even Lord BrahmA and Lord Siva seek shelter at Your lotus feet."

 

PURPORT

[...] According to SrIla VizvanAtha CakravartI ThAkura, the statement ziva-viriJci-nutam is also understood to indicate that Caitanya MahAprabhu is worshiped by Lord Siva's incarnation Advaita AcArya and by Lord BrahmA's incarnation HaridAsa ThAkura.

 

However, these seem to indicate that Prahlada and Brahma are separate entities (although it may be another Brahma):

<center>SB 8.22.18

 

zrI-zuka uvAca

tasyAnuzRNvato rAjan

prahrAdasya kRtAJjaleH

hiraNyagarbho bhagavAn

uvAca madhusUdanam

</center>

zrI-zukaH uvAca--SrI Sukadeva GosvAmI said; tasya--of PrahlAda MahArAja; anuzRNvataH--so that he could hear; rAjan--O King ParIkSit; prahrAdasya--of PrahlAda MahArAja; kRta-aJjaleH--who was standing with folded hands; hiraNyagarbhaH--Lord BrahmA; bhagavAn--the most powerful; uvAca--said; madhusUdanam--unto MadhusUdana, the Personality of Godhead.

 

Sukadeva GosvAmI continued: O King ParIkSit, Lord BrahmA then began to speak to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, within the hearing of PrahlAda MahArAja, who stood nearby with folded hands.

 

<center>SB 8.22.21

 

zrI-brahmovAca

bhUta-bhAvana bhUteza

deva-deva jaganmaya

muJcainaM hRta-sarvasvaM

nAyam arhati nigraham

</center>

zrI-brahmA uvAca--Lord BrahmA said; bhUta-bhAvana--O Supreme Being, well-wisher of everyone, who can cause one to flourish; bhUta-Iza--O master of everyone; deva-deva--O worshipable Deity of the demigods; jagat-maya--O all-pervading one; muJca--please release; enam--this poor Bali MahArAja; hRta-sarvasvam--now bereft of everything; na--not; ayam--such a poor man; arhati--deserves; nigraham--punishment.

 

Lord BrahmA said: O well-wisher and master of all living entities, O worshipable Deity of all the demigods, O all-pervading Personality of Godhead, now this man has been sufficiently punished, for You have taken everything. Now You can release him. He does not deserve to be punished more.

 

PURPORT

When Lord BrahmA saw that PrahlAda MahArAja and VindhyAvali had already approached the Lord to ask mercy for Bali MahArAja, he joined them and recommended Bali MahArAja's release on the grounds of worldly calculations.

 

<center>SB 7.10.33

 

tataH kAvyAdibhiH sArdhaM

munibhiH kamalAsanaH

daityAnAM dAnavAnAM ca

prahrAdam akarot patim

</center>

tataH--thereafter; kAvya-AdibhiH--with SukrAcArya and others; sArdham--and with; munibhiH--great saintly persons; kamala-AsanaH--Lord BrahmA; daityAnAm--of all the demons; dAnavAnAm--of all the giants; ca--and; prahrAdam--PrahlAda MahArAja; akarot--created; patim--the master or king.

 

Thereafter, along with SukrAcArya and other great saints, Lord BrahmA, whose seat is on the lotus flower, made PrahlAda the king of all the demons and giants in the universe.

 

PURPORT

By the grace of Lord NRsiMhadeva, PrahlAda MahArAja became a greater king than his father, HiraNyakazipu. PrahlAda's inauguration was performed by Lord BrahmA in the presence of other saintly persons and demigods.

 

[Guest guest]

 

There are many Brahmas.

There are many shivas(not sada shiva)

In one life maybe prahlad,another maybe Brahma.

These sastric comparisons are sometimes allegorical or metaphorical.

Like calling a very fast runner an incarnation of the God mercury.

So calling Haridas,an incarnation of Prahlada may be something like that, due to his complete dependence on god,doing little else then chanting and leaving himself totally to the protection of God. Like prahlad folding his hands and meditating on the lord, and leaving his protection up to Narasnghadeva.

[raga 0]

Originally posted by theist:

Hmmmm.....?

 

So who is going to harmonize this?

It wouldn't be the first dual or plural incarnation in the tradition. The following information is mainly drawn from the Gaura Ganoddesa Dipika of Kavi Karnapura.

 

Caitanya -- Krishna & Radha's bhava and Radha's complexion + all other avataras

 

Advaita -- Mahavishnu & Sadashiva + one cowherd boy

 

Gadadhara -- Radha & Lalita

 

Jahnava Devi -- Revati & Ananga Manjari

 

Vasudha Devi -- Varuni & Ananga Manjari

 

Ramananda Raya -- Visakha Devi & Arjuna (Pandava) & Arjuna (cowherd-boy) (& Lalita according to GGD)

 

Vakresvara Pandit -- Aniruddha & Tungavidya

 

Vrindavan Das Thakura -- Vyasa & Kusumapida (cowherd-boy)

 

Gadadhara Das -- Candrakanti-devi & Purnananda-gopi

 

Damodara Pandit -- Saibya-gopi & Goddess Sarasvati

 

Sivananda Sena -- Vira-devi & Duti-devi

 

Sanatana Gosvami -- Labanga Manjari & Sanatana Kumara

 

 

 

[Tarun 6]

In Gaura-lIlA, Bhakta-pravar PrahlAd Mhrj appears as that transcendental leper who picked up any worms that fell off & put them back on/in his open wounds.

The one who refused to return BTG unless the whole universe returned with him.

No, not Kholaveca ZrIdhar. The other externally destitute one.

VAsudev Datta? Yes, that's him!

[theist 1]

Hmmmm.....?

 

So who is going to harmonize this?

[bhaktashab 0]

I think this has to be the most bewildering aspect of Gaudiya Vaisnava philosophy. My head is spinning just thinking about it.

 

------------------

shab.

[Avinash 0]

My head is spinning just thinking about it.

 

Congratulations! This shows that you have head.

[bhaktashab 0]

Originally posted by Avinash:

My head is spinning just thinking about it.

 

Congratulations! This shows that you have head.

huh?

[mahak 0]

What is cool about this issue is that though a particular Vaisnava did not accept Gaura ganodesh Dapik on the issue, it did not create a holy war.

 

About Brahma, he does not leave his post as creator by becoming Haridas (or Lord Jesus Christ). He has siddhis that we mortals cannot even imagine.

 

Ya know, when I hear the word "inconceivable", the mind is left out of the equasiuon. Acintya is cool to discuss, but the mind will never understand how these things can be. If I hear that something is acintya, I give up trying to figger it out.

 

Haribol, ys, mahak