envious rage

[mahak 0]

Well, I am rather tired of hearing garbage disguised as valid vaisnava discussion.

 

If folks want to deride the great bhaktas who give their lives to spread the samkirtana movement, this want comes from a feeling of utter incompetance and ineptitude. Those who take every opportunity to slam the devotees are just doing so to get a rush in their empty useless lives, and I have no pity whatsoever for such worthlessness, only disdain, and that goes for the idiots who engage them in their useless conversations. If these idiots ever appear on a topic I start, Ill erase the whole thing without second thought, because I dont keep the arotika ceremony going when someone urinates on my offering, I stop immediately and clean it up. Dont worry, God was not attached to that food so much that the urine flavor cannot be corrected.

 

JN das is not to blame for bad posts on the forums, Im sure he has a full life, and is not on-line every moment and reading every post.

 

later, mahak

[Janus 0]

I think that someone once said something very wise; "Never argue with an idiot, folks might not know the difference." Never the less in such instances as these, when your positing an absolute and not just claiming that something is a model, that you should be confidant in Lord Krsna's abilities to provide one with the information by which one can defend against all charges. Not willing then to invite and to accept controversy leaves many innocents in doubt, as we are on the platform of belief and our faith is soft. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu never refrained from accepting a challenge, and neither did Srila Prabhupada.

I do not think that everyone can be tarred with the same brush, that everyone who criticizes or challenges the authority or wisdom in all instances of this one or that one are envious or wrathful. What about the guru-kulis who were abused and who now hate both Krsna and Srila Prabhupada? Or who simply now express the opposite of love, apathy towards them? Certainly some are wrathful, but to call them envious is nonsense. Some then but not all are envious. Thus I reject your easy way out and argue as Gamalial argued before the Sanherdren in support of Peter and the apostles that if their arguement is the product of human vanity that it will collapse, but that if it is of God that we risk then finding ourselves at enmity with God should we seek to oppress or stone them.

 

[gHari 0]

Yes, I too avoid sadist sanga like the plague. Nothing worse than a born again agnostic.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

I'm sorry about the offensive messages which are being posted recently by some not-so-spiritual people. When I return from Bombay on the 20th I will clean up the mess and keep out anyone who is not interested in actual spiritual discussion. It is quite obvious who are interested in discussion, and who are just interested in criticizing everyone except themselves. Those who fall into the second category really don't belong among spiritual seekers, as they just polute the transcendental atmosphere.

 

I am sorry I cannot act at present. Once I return to our ashram in Mysore I will clean things up. It is unfortunate that each of us cannot regulate ourselves. One would have guessed that self-restraint (or self-control) was one of the symptoms of one on a spiritual path.

 

Suggestions to everyone: Edit any offensive posts you may have made before I read them, because afterwards there will be no warnings.

 

[shvu 1]

 

I am rather tired of hearing garbage disguised as valid vaisnava discussion...

Mahak,

 

What is "valid Vaishnava discussion"?

 

Unlike VNN, this is more than a Vaishnava forum and covers all aspects of Hinduism. Naturally you cannot expect everyone here to be Vaishnavas and/or Prabhupada followers.

 

If this were a Iskcon forum, then criticizing Prabhupada's literature would be inappropriate. But since it is not, any person can be criticized with reasons. And if you take the time to notice, no one has criticized Prabhupada without giving reasons.

 

If you remember, sometime back there was heavy criticism about one Tripurari Maharaj for supporting homosexuality. If one person can be criticized, then so can anyone else, as long as there are reasons supplied.

 

Cheers

 

[Gauracandra 1]

Well here is the problem I've had with a few of these "offensive" posts - they never have anything to do with the subject at hand. You see, some people want to criticize and attack and so they take any subject and twist it to their agenda. That anti-christ posting was an example. One forum member posted a few things on the anti-christ, and then we have another forum member who said "For certain your Prabhupada was an anti-christ" ... and then continued on to attack Srila Prabhupada.

 

Like this. Suppose I create a posting called "The Miracles of Saints" and in it I discuss how Jesus healed the blind, and how this saint did this or that. Simply I want to discuss miracles. Then another person comes along and says "For certain your Prabhupada was not a saint for he did not create any miracles. His zoroastrian sakta concoction does not have potency to create miracles. For certain he was not a saint. Smriti and sruti state that for certain your Prabhupada was not a saint...." All of a sudden my posting gets hijacked by another member with an agenda to deviate the subject.

 

This can be done for anything. How about "The medicinal properties of Soy Milk". We can have someone come along and say "For certain your Prabhupada did not drink soy milk. His zoroastrian sakta concoction only allowed the worship of cows. This is against Hari's instruction as there is no second Hari. Is a cow a second Hari? Is the soybean a second Hari? No. etc...". It just gets stupid after a while.

 

So lets try to stick with the spirit and subject matter of those who initially create a heading. I know over time it may change, but some people are intent on preventing anything discussion except their own nonsense. Just one man's opinion.

 

Gauracandra

[jijaji 0]

Much of the offensive posts are meant to upset and make the faithful confused. I know all too well because I have been one of the biggest offenders in this regard.

 

No More...No More......and if anyone wants to argue with me over this sampraday or that line or whatever...watch out!

 

Love is more important!

 

A simple faith is more valuble!

 

I am sick of it.....after George died I wept for days..DAYS. I still am crying and because of this I see some change in my HEART. I realize I have been so damm stuck in my HEAD I have been unable to FEEL (hardhearted).

 

And FEEL is exactly what George did..and because he felt so very deeply, he was able to convey those feelings back to us which in turn resonated in our hearts and brought forth some spiritual realization.

 

Is there anyone out there who became a devotee in the late 60's or early 70's who DIDN'T FEEL George's love when he sang 'My Sweet Lord'...?

 

I'm goin out of MY HEAD.....'Living in the Material World'....

 

 

Please forgive my great aparadhas to all the Sadhus & Vaishnavas from anywhere I have offended!

 

'It Is He..Jai Sri Krishna'

 

 

jijaji

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 12-11-2001).]

[JRdd 0]

Ditto that. As one of my friends likes to say:

 

It's better to be kind than right.

 

By that I mean better to come from the heart than the ego. (And you can still of course be right.)

 

Jayaradhe

[shvu 1]

It's better to be kind than right.

Good one.

 

To criticize a Guru is to offend his followers.

 

It is as simple as that. Doesn't matter how logical, reasonable or valid, the critic thinks he is. Irrespective of what his intentions are, it is not a kind thing to do.

 

Henceforth, I have decided not to criticize Authors and Gurus. If criticizm is required, I will stick to criticizing Books and Teachings and not the people behind them. That is the way to go. I also recommend the Administrator makes it a policy of the forums, not to speak negatively of any Gurus [including all Babajis, Maharajs, etc].

Hopefully Mahak, you will not be hearing garbage(*) in future and so you will not get tired.

 

* Criticizm of Prabhupada

 

Cheers

 

[stonehearted 0]

I'm really impressed! I'm in awe at the humility and honesty of the members of this board. I was persuaded by shvus's earlier post regarding the nature of this list; shvu correctly pointed out that this is not just a board for believers. Not acknowledging this has caused some anxiety among participants on a fairly regular basis. Then, after reading of jijaji's change of heart, and then pulling myself back together, I read shvu's next post. Just as I was beginning to question the value of the time spent here (I'm an English teacher, and time is rare and precious), I became convinced that this is indeed good company.

 

Whenever we write, we need to consider the purpose for which we're writing, as well as the audience. I long ago concluded that some members were posting specifically to disturb (or at least challenge) the readers' faith. (Such challenges can often actually serve to strengthen one's faith, but that's another issue.) jijaji's brutal candor in this regard should serve as an example to us all: let's be introspective enough to at least understand why we say whatwe do on this board. What effect do we intend a praticular post to have on its readers? I've sometimes complained that the anonymity afforded by boards such as this facilitates carelessness. One advantage is that we are writing. Sometimes it may be well to compose a post offline,let it simmer a while, check it over and make sure that it's likely to have the effect we intend, revise it if necessary, consider it yet again before we post it. The immediacy of the medium seems to foster immediate, from-the-hip responses, but we don't have to give into that pressure.

 

Thank you all for your company. Now I gotta go cry out of gratitude.

 

Babhru

[jijaji 0]

Run Of The Mill

from...

All Things Must Pass

George Harrison

 

Everyone has choice

When to and not to raise their voices

It's you that decides

Which way will you turn

While feeling that our love's not your concern

It's you that decides

 

No one around you

Will carry the blame for you

No one around you

Will love you today and throw it all away

Tomorrow when you rise

Another day for you to realize me

Or send me down again

 

As the days stand up on end

You've got me wondering how I lost your friendship

But I see it in your eyes

 

Though I'm beside you

I can't carry the lame for you

I may decide to

Get out with your blessing

Where I'll carry on guessing

 

How high will you leap

Will you make enough for you to reap it?

Only you'll arrive

At your own made end

With no one but yourself to be offended

It's you that decides

 

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 12-11-2001).]

[mahak 0]

Haribol, folks. First of all, I offer respects to the entire Vaisnava community, regardless of what school they may follow.

 

Brutal commentary?? This is not objectionable, this is istagosthi. What is brutal is disregard of vaisnava sensitivity, and this has been corrected by a little introspection.

 

As far as having differences, even with a highly regarded Vaisnava, these differences can be discussed if respect is shown, it is not all that difficult. ISKCON, frinstance, is not my cup of tea, and it has been that way even prior to Srila Prabhupada's disappearance. But if I was to actively preach against everything ISKCON, who would I hurt more than myself, because everything connected with ISKCON is not a problem, just the things that make the cup of tea disagreeable. Same goes for my godbrothers who have started their own schools. I support them all, even without "joining". This is not to say that a guru gets "carte blanche approval", in fact, just the opposite. Any Guru has to earn respect.

 

If Srila Prabhupada has not earned the respect of an adherant Vaisnava, praises lavished upon him would be shallow, and probably not even accepted by the recipient of false praise. But "not having gained respect" is never countered by blatant and public display of hurtful disrespect, and this is my only contention.

 

I especially liked the commentary about carefully choosing one's words. Fortunately, this website program has edit capability that other forums do not have, so we can analize what the impact of our words will have.

 

If I made folks mad by my topic starter, this may well be my intent. But if one can see the end result that folks will try to be a little nicer, then the madness is truely madness in the real sense, that we have become mad and lost all desire to "defend our turf".

 

Hare Krsna, thankx, JNdas, hope you are well. mahaksadasa

 

PS Thankx, too, Bhakta Don. Save all your writings, they are valuable to me as well.

[Audarya lila 0]

Wow!!! How wonderful!

 

Honestly, from my heart to both Jijagi and Shvu - I have tears in my eyes from reading your posts above. This is so wonderful. Please accept my respects. Your example is wonderful and I sincerely hope that we can all follow suit and appreciate each other more.

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa