JRdd 0 Report post Posted September 29, 2001 Wow, wonderful post, poet. I was also thinking that Sanjaya seemed to understand so much that I almost wondered if the devotees were being set up, tested. If so, some failed miserably, but the rest of you showed heart. Best wishes back to our Sanjaya! Hare Krsna! ys, Jayaradhe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dasanudas 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2001 Originally posted by JRdd: Wow, wonderful post, poet. I was also thinking that Sanjaya seemed to understand so much that I almost wondered if the devotees were being set up, tested. If so, some failed miserably, but the rest of you showed heart. Best wishes back to our Sanjaya! Hare Krsna! ys, Jayaradhe Oh no! not another setup Who could it be she asked? But a beggar in disguise. Methinks the poetry is coming to us from another dimention. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dasanudas 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2001 Where all speech is a song and all movement a dance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 4, 2001 Originally posted by FaithlessDevotee: Hi, I'm 16 and have been trying to understand and believe in the Hare Krsna philosophies for a few year now. I chant Hare Krsna but my heart still hasn't been captured. My family are originally Hindu but I still find it really difficult to believe in the simple things, like Krsna being the supreme for example. Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong. If I could ever one day have the same degree of faith and belief some of you Vaishnava guys have in here one day, that would just be a miracle. How on earth can some Vaishnava's be so sure of things, there are too many perplexities that get in the way of the philosophies validity (for me it seems anyway). So just what is going wrong, for all I know the state of higher consciousness may just be some sort of secondary maya keeping us from another truth of some inconceivable nature. May good luck be with all Vaishnava's on their spiritual paths. And as I have once been told to chant... Nitai Garanga!! DEAR FAITH**** DEVOTEE! I AM SORRY TO SEE SUCH A FLOOD OF MAILS THAT DONT TARGET YOUR QUESTIONS. IT IS NATURAL FOR US TO GLORIFY ANOTHER. DONT BOYS OF YOUR AGE GLORFY GIRLS, DILM STARS OR SPORTS PEOPLE ? WHAT IS THE USE OF THAT ? SO, THERE IS NO LOSS IF YOU GLORIFY GOD. ALL VEDIC SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT ACCEPT KRISHNA AS GOD. OTHER RELIGIONS DONT DESCRIBE GOD AT ALL. SO THERE IS NO LOSS. IF ANY THING ONLY GAIN. TRY TO FOLLOW WHATEVER MAKES YOU HAPPY LIKE CHANTING, LISTENING TO KIRTANS, EATING PRASADAM ETC. TRY TO PRAY AND GET YOUR DOUBTS CLEARED. WHEN WE HAVE LITTLE REALIZATIONS, IT WILL ENCOURAGE US TO PROGRESS GRADUALLY. PLEASE ALSO CONCENTRATE ON YOUR STUDIES, GAMES AND MORAL SOCIAL LIFE. THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT COME TO A STAGE WHERE YOU CAN RENOUNCE AND EVENTUALLY TO WORK AND MAINTAIN YOUR FAMILY YOU NEED ALL THESE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
umandi 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2001 Faithless, I managed to find this thread looking for answers to precisely the same question - how to cultivate faith and devotion. Can't say I really gleaned much from the thread so far. What I've read generally and taken away from books is that certain people are "born" with it (according to Ramakrishna), others find it when undergoing tremendous suffering (Kunti for example said so to Krishna and asked for suffering because only under extreme duress could she cry out to Krishna with real feeling). Associating with good and holy people, chanting the glories of a personal God, and trying to keep a personal God in your heart at all times are conscious methods of gaining faith and devotion. But that is what I've read. On occasion, I have felt faith and devotion but I can't honestly claim to have it absolutely. Was hoping someone else would. BTW, the facile comment that someone made early on in this thread that reasoning should be thrown out of the window was roundly criticized. But that is the only way according to as great an authority as Ramakrishna Paramahansa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
umandi 0 Report post Posted October 4, 2001 I take back the comment that I didn't glean much from this thread...Careful re-reading shows that everything I mentioned in my earlier post has already been said on here... peace. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 5, 2001 The facile comment that someone made early on in this thread that reasoning should be thrown out of the window was roundly criticized. But that is the only way according to as great an authority as Ramakrishna Paramahansa. (umandi) Not only reasoning should be abandoned according to Ramakrishna, but also any kind of mundane dharma, such as Vaisnava-dharma, Sakta-dharma, yuga-dharma, and so on. According to him one should surrender himself completely to Hari’s absolute free will. That is nothing new indeed. Caitanya has said the same, as well as Jesus, Mirabai, Kabir, Vallabha and countless other muktas. This is the main teaching from Gita (18.66), and the utmost confidential instruction given by Krsna. Can you thrown out religion and philosophy for My sake right now? That was the last question that Krsna has made to His friend Arjuna. Can we do it for the sake of Hari? Instead of surrender to Hari’s free will and peacefully contemplate His lilas we actually are always seeking after religions and philosophies. What can be done? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
valaya 0 Report post Posted October 5, 2001 Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa: The facile comment that someone made early on in this thread that reasoning should be thrown out of the window was roundly criticized. But that is the only way according to as great an authority as Ramakrishna Paramahansa. (umandi) Not only reasoning should be abandoned according to Ramakrishna, but also any kind of mundane dharma, such as Vaisnava-dharma, Sakta-dharma, yuga-dharma, and so on. According to him one should surrender himself completely to Hari’s absolute free will. That is nothing new indeed. Caitanya has said the same, as well as Jesus, Mirabai, Kabir, Vallabha and countless other muktas. This is the main teaching from Gita (18.66), and the utmost confidential instruction given by Krsna. Can you thrown out religion and philosophy for My sake right now? That was the last question that Krsna has made to His friend Arjuna. Can we do it for the sake of Hari? Instead of surrender to Hari’s free will and peacefully contemplate His lilas we actually are always seeking after religions and philosophies. What can be done? While I agree for the most part with what you've said here, Satyaraja prabhu, I can't go along with the `peaceful contemplation`. The urgency of our desire seems most important to me. This can be expressed by giving up all our attachments to physical comforts, including mental and emotional stability, particularly home and family. The association of advanced souls with similar spiritual goals can be a major inspiration and even a moment in their presence can light the necessary fire in one's heart. Then, by prayerful chanting of the Holy Names, that fire of devotional longing can leap into flames that quickly consume all our attachments in this world. Eventually, everyone will be blessed by His Divine Grace and, possibly after numerous lifetimes, reach spititual perfection of some sort. The question for each of us as individuals with our own free will is simply how long are we willing to wait `patiently`. Sri Ramakrishna threatened to commit suicide before Mother Kali granted him her vision...so long as we maintain any comfort in our lives here, we will be delaying our spiritual progress. For a `fortunate` few, there actually is no choice... valaya RR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 5, 2001 Valaya: While I agree for the most part with what you've said here, Satyaraja prabhu, I can't go along with the `peaceful contemplation`. The urgency of our desire seems most important to me. This can be expressed by giving up all our attachments to physical comforts, including mental and emotional stability, particularly home and family. Satyaraj: Well, the urgency of one’s desire is the position recommended by Krsna for those who are hankering for mukti. Generally these persons are jñanis and advaitavadins, not devotees or bhaktas. According to Krsna’s point of view in the 11th Canto of Bhagavata Purana, devotees are quite satisfied in the middle of this material world contemplating His lilas relishing bliss into the samvyoma of their hearts and they are undisturbed: they are atmarama and atmakama . This kind of phalguna-vairagya is not strongly recommended even by Sankara himself! Perhaps Buddha would recommend that. Valaya: Then, by prayerful chanting of the Holy Names, that fire of devotional longing can leap into flames that quickly consume all our attachments in this world. Satyaraj: Thus is only a thesis. In fact only Hari can consume all our attachments in this world and nothing else by His absolute free will and nothing else. No mantra, no sadhana, religion, philosophy or any other effort. This is Siksastakam’s conclusion! Valaya: Sri Ramakrishna threatened to commit suicide before Mother Kali granted him her vision...so long as we maintain any comfort in our lives here, we will be delaying our spiritual progress. For a `fortunate` few, there actually is no choice... Satyaraj: And so has done Jesus, and many other muktas, as for them this material world have no meaning for they are living in the samvyoma of their hearts. We are not! We can say that Mirabai and Caitanya had consummated suicide by merging themselves into a Krsna’s Deity! Can we do it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
