A War Between Here and Hereafter

[Guest guest]

A War Between Here and Hereafter

 

One should understand that Here’s ideas of warfare might not succeed in Hereafter’s countries. How do you battle a foe who has so little to protect in this world? A person who may believe a greater good will come from sacrificing himself, his home, his family? How do you vanquish an enemy for whom categories of defeat and victory, life and death do not match yours? Nothing you know Here works in their world.

 

In the Hereafter’s camp poverty is something that a Here’s citizen cannot fathom. Generally people have not even furniture. No light. The only object in a house may be a copy of the Koran, or a Gita, or some other scripture tucked into an alcove.

 

If a Here’s citizen ask a Hereafter’s man, “Why do you live in such conditions? Don't you want to do something to improve your lot?" The answer would be, "Don't you understand that the worse we live in this world, the better our lives will be Hereafter? I don't want the same things in life that you want."

 

Now it seems that they will fight to convince themselves that the Here is a good place for Hereafter’s people and that the Hereafter is a good place for Here’s people!!! What a chronic battle!

 

Any comment on that thesis?

[valaya 0]

Who can doubt that we in the materialistic west have not lost our attachment to real spiritual values and our eternal identities? More than a military response will certainly be required and in that battle each of us is called upon to fight. This war could potentially unite us all in a truer vision of reality and a mutual committment towards it's realization.

 

Maybe these people will actually prove to be genuine martyrs in the end, if their personal sacrifice results in our awakening, individually and collectively. While fighting tooth and nail, the significance of heart must be duly noted and acted upon.

 

Those who would see these coming times as an opportunity for increased preaching may be forced to practice what they preach!

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-24-2001).]

[Guest guest]

 

Valayaji: Those who would see these coming times as an opportunity for increased preaching may be forced to practice what they preach!

 

Satyaraj: I would prefer to consider that they would be forced to realize what they are preaching, rather than only externally practice some discipline. After real realization no one will preach, as the obvious cannot be explained.

 

People are now practicing what they preach: “Allah is God and Mohammed His prophet! (the Hereafter’s invisible god)” or “In God we trust (the Here’s Green-back god).” So, now they are warring for their missions.

 

Valayaji: Maybe these people will actually prove to be genuine martyrs in the end, if their personal sacrifice results in our awakening, individually and collectively

 

Satyaraj: For certain martyrs from both side will be consider under different perspective. A martyr from Here’s countries may be celebrated due his premature death in an episode such as the TWC’s fall down. A martyr from a Hereafter’s countries may be celebrated due his detachment while giving his life for the sake of his Hereafter’s belief.

 

A Here’s citizen would consider as awaken the condition of to be placed in a society where his Here’s values are glorified. A Hereafter citizen would consider awaken as the opposite.

 

[karthik_v 0]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

After real realization no one will preach, as the obvious cannot be explained

Oops! there is some redundancy in that sentence. Any realization, I thought, has to be real. So, where does real realizatioon come from???!!!!

 

Anyway, "the obvious", or Krishna cannot be explained in any material sense, as all material media are limited and imperfect. But a liberated acarya would still preach to the multitude out of his causeless mercy. While, we may not understand the great pastimes of Lord Krishna, atleast we will be reminded by the acaryas that our material existence is just ephemeral and spiritual world is where we truly belong.

 

If it were true that the "realized" don't preach, then why would Lord Krishna give BG to this world?

 

 

[Guest guest]

karthik_v: Oops! there is some redundancy in that sentence. Any realization, I thought, has to be real. So, where does real realizatioon come from???!!!!

 

Satyaraj: Yes, there is a pleonasm, or an intentional redundancy, as nowadays everyone seems to be realized. By ‘really realized’ we would consider a mukta.

 

karthik_v: But a liberated acarya would still preach to the multitude out of his causeless mercy...

 

Satyaraj: Many muktas had tried. Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Sankara, Ramanuja, Ramakrishna, etc. All of them had had troubles to convey their msg to the populace. It was the same msg all times. But most of their followers simply got ‘realization’ and not ’ real realization,’ and had transformed mukta’s msg into something else.

 

karthik_v: If it were true that the "realized" don't preach, then why would Lord Krishna give BG to this world?

 

Satyaraj: Probably the "realized" did not read the Gita’s sloka 18.67 and keep on preaching...

 

[Maitreya 0]

 

Satyaraja:

After real realization no one will preach, as the obvious cannot be explained.

 

karthik_v:

Oops! there is some redundancy in that sentence. Any realization, I thought, has to be real. So, where does real realizatioon come from???!!!!

 

I appreciate your point karthik.Someone must be granting that real realization to the previously non-realized.And It follows that if someone could grant it to him then having obtained it he in turn can pass it on to someone else.

 

Parampara.Mercy descending.

 

Hare Krishna

 

 

[shvu 1]

A few observations,

 

karthik_v: If it were true that the "realized" don't preach, then why would Lord Krishna give BG to this world?

Correction. He did not give the BG to the world, as some neo self-styled Gurus of the 20th century would have people believe. It was given to Arjuna specifically, and 18.67 rules out propoganda gimmicks like distributing free copies of the BG to all and sundry without discrimination. This was certainly not recommended by Krishna anywhere. Not unless he appeared in a secret dream to some Gaudiya Acharya in west bengal, which most people are unaware of.

 

Verse 18.68 follows verse 18.67. It is convenient to introduce 2 other verses in between and they try to show that preaching to all is ok. But unfortunately it is not so. Read them in sequence and the meaning is as clear as can be. Preaching should be based on discrimination and is not something to be given to every T, D & H. The latter is only with the intent of growing the organization and nothing else just like AOL sends free cds of internet software to homes. Irrespective of people willing to admit it or not, there is nothing spiritual about such activites; it is business, all the way.

 

Cheers

 

[talasiga 0]

<u>A SUMMARY</u>

 

posting 1

Satyaraja presents a parable to illustrate a perspective on the current world crisis (US and world democracies VS terrorism)in terms of dialectics coloured by the material circumstances experienced by the opposing camps.

 

posting 2

Valaya is triggered towards a broader view which transcends the dialectical opposition and invites a mutual appreciation of martyrdom and praxis.

 

posting 3

Satyaraja reduces Posting 2 to trivial issues to enable low level debate.

 

posting 4

Karthik_v digresses with a pedantic criticism of a tautaulogous expression in Posting 3.

 

posting 5

Satyaraja partakes of the digression and relies on scriptural support.

 

posting 6

Maitreya provides some incisive contribution to the digression.

 

posting 7

Karthik_v responds to Posting 5 's engagement in the digression by launching into further and detailed scriptural exposition.

 

posting 8

Shvu brings argument to question the scriptural position espoused by Posting 7 's engagement in the digression.

 

COMMENT

Valaya (Posting 2) honoured the foundational posting with a spiritually insightful thrust. His response has not been honoured.

 

It is so often the case that the scripture is used to emphasise someone's error (or the <u>perception</u> of purported error) at the expense of promoting the genuinely illuminating response.

 

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 09-25-2001).]

[karthik_v 0]

 

Originally posted by shvu:

A few observations,

 

Correction. He did not give the BG to the world, as some neo self-styled Gurus of the 20th century would have people believe. It was given to Arjuna specifically

 

My response:

 

This point of yours can be clearly refuted by verse 4.2 of BG:

 

evam parampara-praptam

imam rajarsayo viduh

sa kaleneha mahata

yogo nastah parantapa

 

WORD FOR WORD

evam -- thus; parampara -- by disciplic succession; praptam -- received; imam -- this science; raja-rsayah -- the saintly kings; viduh -- understood; sah -- that knowledge; kalena -- in the course of time; iha -- in this world; mahata -- great; yogah -- the science of one's relationship with the Supreme; nastah -- scattered; parantapa -- O Arjuna, subduer of the enemies.

 

 

TRANSLATION

This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost.

 

This clearly shows that the eternal knowledge is transmitted in disciplic succession.

 

Further, 4.3 of BG expands on this and puts everything in perspective:

 

sa evayam maya te 'dya

yogah proktah puratanah

bhakto 'si me sakha ceti

rahasyam hy etad uttamam

 

WORD FOR WORD

sah -- the same; eva -- certainly; ayam -- this; maya -- by Me; te -- unto you; adya -- today; yogah -- the science of yoga; proktah -- spoken; puratanah -- very old; bhaktah -- devotee; asi -- you are; me -- My; sakha -- friend; ca -- also; iti -- therefore; rahasyam -- mystery; hi -- certainly; etat -- this; uttamam -- transcendental.

 

TRANSLATION

That very ancient science of the relationship with the Supreme is today told by Me to you because you are My devotee as well as My friend and can therefore understand the transcendental mystery of this science.

 

Here Krishna clearly states that Arjuna receives this message only because he is his devotee and friend. So, BG is spoken to his devotees and friends by Krishna and not to any individual.

 

This is further corroborated by Krishna in verse 4.7 of BG:

 

yada yada hi dharmasya

glanir bhavati bharata

abhyutthanam adharmasya

tadatmanam srjamy aham

 

WORD FOR WORD

yada yada -- whenever and wherever; hi -- certainly; dharmasya -- of religion; glanih -- discrepancies; bhavati -- become manifested; bharata -- O descendant of Bharata; abhyutthanam -- predominance; adharmasya -- of irreligion; tada -- at that time; atmanam -- self; srjami -- manifest; aham -- I.

 

TRANSLATION

Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion -- at that time I descend Myself.

 

And what for does he descend? He answers that in verse 4.8 of BG:

 

paritranaya sadhunam

vinasaya ca duskrtam

dharma-samsthapanarthaya

sambhavami yuge yuge

 

WORD FOR WORD

paritranaya -- for the deliverance; sadhunam -- of the devotees; vinasaya -- for the annihilation; ca -- and; duskrtam -- of the miscreants; dharma -- principles of religion; samsthapana-arthaya -- to reestablish; sambhavami -- I do appear; yuge -- millennium; yuge -- after millennium.

 

TRANSLATION

To deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I Myself appear, millennium after millennium.

 

So, that answers without any ambiguity that BG was spoken by Krishna for every devotee and aspiring devotee and not for any individual alone.

 

 

[karthik_v 0]

Talasiga:

 

Beneath the veneer of words of Satyaraja Dasa exists a hidden agenda. I shall not hesitate to expose one when I encounter it...however veiled it may come.

 

Sorry, if that upset your plans too!!!!!

 

Hare Krishna

 

[valaya 0]

Valaya (Posting 2) honoured the foundational posting with a spiritually insightful thrust. His response has not been honoured.

It is so often the case that the scripture is used to emphasise someone's error (or the perception of purported error) at the expense of promoting the genuinely illuminating response.

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

Smothered with scripture and drowned in dispute...so what else is new, eh? RR

[talasiga 0]

Originally posted by valaya:

Smothered with scripture and drowned in dispute...so what else is new, eh? RR

Apparently

I have some plans that have been upset ?!

Perhaps my wife knows something about this.......

 

 

[karthik_v 0]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

Probably the "realized" did not read the Gita’s sloka 18.67 and keep on preaching...

Karthik responds:

 

I don't know what Satyaraj Prabhu is trying to accomplish by providing this reference. So, let us go to the actual verse 18.67 of BG and analze it.

*************************

idam te natapaskaya

nabhaktaya kadacana

na casusrusave vacyam

na ca mam yo 'bhyasuyati

 

WORD FOR WORD

idam -- this; te -- by you; na -- never; atapaskaya -- to one who is not austere; na -- never; abhaktaya -- to one who is not a devotee; kadacana -- at any time; na -- never; ca -- also; asusrusave -- to one who is not engaged in devotional service; vacyam -- to be spoken; na -- never; ca -- also; mam -- toward Me; yah -- anyone who; abhyasuyati -- is envious.

 

TRANSLATION

This confidential knowledge may never be explained to those who are not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to one who is envious of Me.

*****************************

This only means that while an acarya is merciful enough to give the transcendental knowledge, the disciple can understand that only if he is following the rules. This point is illustrated in the verse 18.66 of BG, as shown below.

*****************************

TEXT 66

sarva-dharman parityajya

mam ekam saranam vraja

aham tvam sarva-papebhyo

moksayisyami ma sucah

 

WORD FOR WORD

sarva-dharman -- all varieties of religion; parityajya -- abandoning; mam -- unto Me; ekam -- only; saranam -- for surrender; vraja -- go; aham -- I; tvam -- you; sarva -- all; papebhyah -- from sinful reactions; moksayisyami -- will deliver; ma -- do not; sucah -- worry.

 

TRANSLATION

Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.

******************************

 

From this it is clear that if an individual is ready to surrender unto Krishna then Krishna takes upon himself the responsibility to deliver him. So, even if has defects (which any non-transcendental person will have), Krishna will still deliver him, provided he surrenders. In verse 9.22 of BG Krishna clearly states that even if we are defective, but surrender unto him, then he provides us what we lack while preserving what we have.

************************

anan yas cintayanto mam

ye janah paryupasate

tesam nit yabhi yuktanam

yoga-ksemam vahamy aham

 

WORD FOR WORD

ananyah -- having no other object; cintayantah -- concentrating; mam -- on Me; ye -- those who; janah -- persons; paryupasate -- properly worship; tesam -- of them; nitya -- always; abhiyuktanam -- fixed in devotion; yoga -- requirements; ksemam -- protection; vahami -- carry; aham -- I.

 

TRANSLATION

But those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion, meditating on My transcendental form -- to them I carry what they lack, and I preserve what they have.

***********************

This should drive home the point that surrender is the key to become a liberated soul. By the mercy of Krishna and Guru, all our defects will go away if we are surrendered.

 

That an acarya should preach is evident from the verse 18.68 of BG as shown below.

*******************************

ya idam paramam guhyam

mad-bhaktesv abhidhasyati

bhaktim mayi param krtva

mam evaishyaty asamsayah

 

WORD FOR WORD

yah -- anyone who; idam -- this; paramam -- most; guhyam -- confidential secret; mat -- of Mine; bhaktesu -- amongst devotees; abhidhasyati -- explains; bhaktim -- devotional service; mayi -- unto Me; param -- transcendental; krtva -- doing; mam -- unto Me; eva -- certainly; esyati -- comes; asamsayah -- without doubt.

 

TRANSLATION

For one who explains this supreme secret to the devotees, pure devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me.

********************************

This illustrates 2 points. First, an acarya will preach to the fallen souls out of causeless mercy. Second, one who preaches becomes dear to Krishna. When we talk of mukti what does it mean? Is not becoming dear to Krishna the highest form of Mukti? If Krishna says that such a person is the dearest to him, then we can certainly conclude that an acarya who preaches BG as it is is also the purest.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

karthik_v: Beneath the veneer of words of Satyaraja Dasa exists a hidden agenda. I shall not hesitate to expose one when I encounter it...however veiled it may come.

 

Satyaraj: You may be right, as probably my hidden agenda is to make a sect like yours. Your quotes from Gita are quite biased, as you are posting your Prabhupada’s translations that are never bona fide. Please employ at least two different translations from 2 different sectarian groups beside yours and thereafter we may have a better appreciation of your preaching spirit without a biased tendency.

 

Sruti text are to be considered as supreme authority over other scriptures such as smrtis, and Itihasas. Gita is a part of an Itihasa (Mahabharata). In the case of dubious situation one should opt to follow sruti. Sruti clear state; “Divine wisdom is a mystery and should be kept secret, and it is not an object of proselytism.” See Vedanta-sutras (3.4.50). Gita 18.67 follows the same sruti.

 

For certain this precept is opposite of your sectarian viewpoint and should be concealed, but that is yours hidden agenda, not ours!

 

 

[Gauracandra 1]

There goes Satya again with the Shrooooooti line. Its good to note that Bhagavad Gita is part of the overall Mahabharata. Because the Mahabharata is a way to distribute spiritual knowledge to the common man.

 

By the way, Satya, how is it that you know about Shrooooooooooti? Just curious since I think people like 'you' aren't supposed to read them

 

Gauracandra

 

[This message has been edited by Gauracandra (edited 09-26-2001).]

[leyh 0]

Originally posted by shvu:

A few observations,

 

Correction. He did not give the BG to the world, as some neo self-styled Gurus of the 20th century would have people believe. It was given to Arjuna specifically, and 18.67 rules out propoganda gimmicks like distributing free copies of the BG to all and sundry without discrimination. This was certainly not recommended by Krishna anywhere. Not unless he appeared in a secret dream to some Gaudiya Acharya in west bengal, which most people are unaware of.

 

Verse 18.68 follows verse 18.67. It is convenient to introduce 2 other verses in between and they try to show that preaching to all is ok. But unfortunately it is not so. Read them in sequence and the meaning is as clear as can be. Preaching should be based on discrimination and is not something to be given to every T, D & H. The latter is only with the intent of growing the organization and nothing else just like AOL sends free cds of internet software to homes. Irrespective of people willing to admit it or not, there is nothing spiritual about such activites; it is business, all the way.

 

Cheers

Shvu:

I think it is you who is in need of correction.The Bhagavad-gita was very obviously not given to Arjuna specifically.In 18.70 of the Bhagavad-gita,Krsna says:"And I declare that he who studies this sacred conversation worships Me by his intelligence." So Krsna is aware that there would be people other than Arjuna who would get to study the conversation.The Bhagavad-gita was spoken by Krsna to Arjuna for the benefit of the whole world,just as during a lecture,a lecturer may answer the question of one student,but the whole class may hear and benefit.

 

 

[This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-26-2001).]

[Guest guest]

 

Gauracandra: By the way, Satya, how is it that you know about Shrooooooooooti? Just curious since I think people like 'you' aren't supposed to read them

 

Satyaraj: Yes, you are quite right! This is parampara! The leaders of your sect would think the same. That is why they could conceal so many statements from sruti and disfigure so many others by giving them distorted meanings: ”People like me aren’t supposed to read sruti!!!”

 

[Maitreya 0]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

Sruti clear state; “Divine wisdom is a mystery and should be kept secret, and it is not an object of proselytism.” See Vedanta-sutras (3.4.50

 

For certain this precept is opposite of your sectarian viewpoint and should be concealed, but that is yours hidden agenda, not ours!

 

 

If divine wisdom should be kept secret, why does Satyaraja keep posting his version of it on a world wide forum?

 

Satyaraja please head for a cave with no phone lines to use for your internet proselytizing.Otherwise I'm sure you will not be able to stop yourself from trying to save us.

 

Hare Krishna

 

 

[Guest guest]

Gita 18.67

 

 

'idaM te nA tapaskAya nA bhaktAya kadAcana,

na ca azzrUSave vAcyaM na ca mAM yo 'bhy asUyati '

 

 

“You should never explain this essence of Gita-sastra to anyone whose senses are uncontrolled, who is a non-devotee, who is devoid of a serving mood, or who is envious of Me.”

 

Now lte’s consider the following commentaries:

 

1) 'Gudartha Dipika' by Sri Madusudana Sarasvati

 

This (that I have spoken) to you should not ever be taught under any circumstance to one who is DEVOID of austerities and to one who is not a devotee; also , neither to one who does not render service, nor as well to one who cavils at Me.

 

The four classes of people are mentioned here and they are not to be given the secret knowledge of Gita.

 

1.One who is devoid of austerities, one has not learned to control one's sense organs and mind

 

2.One who is not a devotee,who is devoid of devotion towards Lord,even IF he be a man of austerity

 

3.One who does not render service even if he be a man of austerity and a devotee

 

4.One who cavils at Me,by thinking of Me as an ordinary man having no divine virtues.

 

He who, being inable to bear My Godhood hates Me,to him,who is intolerant of the excellence of Krisna, it should not be taught even if he be man of austerity,a devotee and one rendering service,at any time!

 

The idea is that it can be taught to one who is full of love for Krisna and is also a man of austerity,

a devotee and one rendering service.

 

Four negatives are meant pointing out unfitness for being taught the Gita in the absence of even any one of the four qualifications.

 

From the mention elsewhere of an alternative, 'to a wise person or a man of austerity', it follows that it should be taught to a man of austerity who is endowed with servicefulness, devotion to the teacher and love for God;

or to a wise man who is endowed with them those qualities.

 

Although wisdom and austerity are alternatives, love for God, devotion to the teacher and service are essential.

 

2) Bhavanuvada by Visvanatha Cakravartipada:

 

Thus, having completed His instructions on Gita-sastra, Bhagavan is explaining the principle of continuing the sampradaya. In other words He is giving the criteria by which one can ascertain who is qualified to eceive these instructions. One whose senses are not under control is called atapaska.

 

Smrti also states: "Tranquility or control of the mind and the senses is the highest penance." These instructions of the Gita should not be imparted to a non-devotee, even if he has control over his senses. Nor should they be given to a bhakta who is self-controlled but who is not interested in submissive hearing (asusrsu).

 

"A further prohibition is given for a person who fulfils the above three qualifications (being self-controlled, being a bhakta and being interested in hearing), but who is envious of Me, maˆ yo' bhyasyati, considering Me, the nirupadhika-prŠa-brahma, (the Supreme Absolute Truth, transcendental to any material designations), to be one with maya, and My existence to be illusory and temporary. This message of the Gita must never be given to such a person at any cost."

 

The tattvas of the Gita should never be instructed to those who are envious of Krsna, who consider His transcendental form to be illusory, who are devoid of bhakti to the guru, who have no control over their senses, and who do not render any service to Hari, or the guru.

 

None of them are qualified to receive the Gita's instructions. Because some people are unable to fully realise the essence of KŠa's instruction, they narrate the Gita in an unauthorised manner to unqualified persons. They think that this is a symptom of their magnanimous and compassionate nature. However, by performing such activities in disobedience to Krsna's orders they become offenders.

 

Krsna Himself knows most clearly the harmful effects of giving this knowledge to an unqualified person. Ignorant persons cannot understand nor retain this jñana. Some people may say that it shows a lack of compassion to consider a recipient's qualification or disqualification in the matter of giving him dharmic instructions. However this is not correct because the good results of having received dharmic instructions are observed only in a qualified person. An unqualified person however, disobeys such instructions after receiving them and, becoming an offender, falls down even further.

 

So, not even Gaudiya-acaryas seems to agree with proselitym based on Gita.

 

Mahabharata narrates that once the king of the devas, Indra, and the chief of the asuras, Virocana, went to Lord Brahma to receive instruction on atma-tattva. Brahma instructed Indra who was a qualified recipient of this knowledge, and who was able to comprehend tattva-jñana. However Virocana, who was unqualified, was not able to follow the instructions given by Brahma. He understood the self to be his gross body only, and the maintenance of it to be the goal of life. In this way Virocana remained bereft of true tattva-jñana.

 

Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.23 states:

 

yasya deve para bhakti / yatha deve tatha gurau

tasyaite kathita hy arthah / prakasante mahatmanah

 

Smrti text also says: sasraddhadhane vimukhe py asrnvati yas copadesah siva-namaparadhah - "By giving this instruction to a person who is faithless and averse to Bhagavan, one causes him to become an offender. It does not benefit him."

 

[karthik_v 0]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

Your quotes from Gita are quite biased, as you are posting your Prabhupada’s translations that are never bona fide.

Well, how can the quotes from BG be biased? That defies logic!

 

I was not even quoting SP's purport. I was only quoting the verses and their translation. So, please point out (by resorting to references from Panini) as to why they are wrong. Till then, Satyaraja, you are on a very shaky wicket.

 

Your contention that BG cannot be given to everyone is based on a highly twisted interpretation verse 18.67. So, I gave umpteen references disputing your twisted claim and showing why BG recommends dissemination of such knowledge to all. That sums up the discussion.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Maitreya: If divine wisdom should be kept secret, why does Satyaraja keep posting his version of it on a world wide forum?

 

Satyaraj: Faith’s market is getting better than health’s market. Therefore I am changing my position and I am trying to get some profit with some inefficient mantras, idols, and biased translations from Sanskrit. Now I am checking out my version on divine wisdom in these world wide forums. It is a marketing strategy to get some known-how in this area.

 

 

[Guest guest]

karthik_v: Your contention that BG cannot be given to everyone is based on a highly twisted interpretation verse 18.67.

 

Satyaraj: Yes, it may be a highly twisted interpretation verse 18.67 as it is following the opinion of great Gaudiya-acaryas such as Visvanatha and Madhusunada as I had posted above. For certain as a self made acarya your Prabhupada did not follow the previous Gaudiya-acaryas’ opinion on preaching and has had some other opinion.

 

But you had misunderstood my point. I am no contention that BG cannot be given to everyone. It is only a good business, like any other business on book-seller stock. It can be given, but can you give its real meaning? Did you get it?

 

[Maitreya 0]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

Maitreya: If divine wisdom should be kept secret, why does Satyaraja keep posting his version of it on a world wide forum?

 

Satyaraj:It is a marketing strategy to get some known-how in this area.

 

 

Forget the marketplace Satyaraja and find a cave.That is more in line with what you claim shruti says.

 

I hear there are some vacancies now in Afghanistan,but I wouldn't recommend the neighborhood.

 

 

[Guest guest]

karthik_v: I was not even quoting SP's purport. I was only quoting the verses and their translation.

 

Satyaraj: Yes, you won’t be so silly at that point, as everyone agrees with you that Prabhupada’s purport are only a mess.

 

karthik_v: I was only quoting the verses and their translation. So, please point out (by resorting to references from Panini) as to why they are wrong.

 

Satyaraj: So, are you stating that your Prabhupada made his translations by resorting to references from Panini? Oh, that is not exactly the proper way to translate! But we should be lenient in that case.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Maitreya: Forget the marketplace Satyaraja and find a cave.That is more in line with what you claim shruti says.

 

Satyaraj: Thanx for advice, dear Maitreyaji. I was forgetting Wall street’s episode! But sruti also says something about forests. You known, we don’t have any scarcity of forest up here, so I am thinking in a forest, maybe near a beach, or a nice river... What do you think?