What's wrong with homosexualtiy?

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

Give up the false pretense of being a great 'defender of the faith' and stop villifying others. If someone is pretending, Krsna will take care of it.

Those who pretend to by acharyas and those who distort the teachings of Srila Prabhupada always try to conceal their distortions by claiming Krishna will take care of it. It is our duty as followers of Srila Prabhupada to expose these imposters, so that these abuses do not continue. We don't run away from our responsibility like they did. They made a mess, ran away and said Krishna will sort it out. Nonsense.

 

We know these people from before, we know what was their personal involvement in ISKCON's problems. They want to run from the mess they made and pretend they had nothing to do with it. They think by swinging their "Swami" from right to left they can cover their tracks. Nope. We remember who you were. We don't like to expose the dirty laundry, so we won't get into the details. But we know, and we won't let these pretender-acharya's distort the teachings of Srila Prabhupada.

[Guest guest]

if Tripurari did say something that was offensive about Sridhara Maharaja as you say, do you not think he has dealt with that?

 

Actually, that is the whole point. On THREE different occasions he had the chance to apoligize to me about it and did not.

[Citta 0]

JN dasa:

 

In the name of glorifying and defending Prabhupada, it is apparent that you minimize both the previous acaryas and the ones after Prabhupada. There is no question that some of the men Prabhupada gave the post of acarya to have not lived up to that. You lump my Guru Maharaja in with them, due to your experience with others who fell away. I have asked this before, and you did not answer it, so I will ask again: where has Swami B.V. Tripurari altered the Gaudiya siddhanta? Don't speak in generalities, get specific. You don't have a philosophical leg to stand on, and any objective reader here can see that.

 

It is clear that since Prabhupada left you have not availed yourself of the company of realized sadhus. You may say that the self-effulgent acarya has not appeared yet, but that is not the case. Srila Sridhara Maharaja was a self-effulgent acarya, but you could not see him as such. This is your mistake, and it shows now. Why did you disobey Prabhupada's direct order to hear from Sridhara Maharaja? The ironic thing is that now you have appointed yourself as the protector of Prabhupada's teachings, while accusing other acaryas in good standing of being self-appointed cheaters. Look in the mirror.

 

--Citta Hari dasa

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

It is clear that since Prabhupada left you have not availed yourself of the company of realized sadhus.

Now I'm looking for the company of a realized sadhu who ran to the forests after making ISKCON a mess and says homosexual "commitments" are alright. Also I wanted to find a sadhu who said Srimad Bhagavatam was full of "propaganda" and that Lord Shiva is not the greatest Vaishnava, but that Bhagavatam just misleads people with such propaganda. And I also was looking for a sadhu who said Srila Prabhupada's statements on society (such as women's roles) are outdated and need to be changed for the times. I think I may have recently found such a sadhu.

 

 

[BDas 0]

Dear JN,

Here is somethng about your stupid charge that Swami Tripurari ruined Iskcon. You will find that Bhakti Curu Swami had the integrety

to change his position after consideration of the facts.

 

And Swami Tripurari has been outside of what you called the "mess of Iskcon" for 20 years.

 

You have had ample time so what have you done to clean up the mess?

 

Bhakti Caru Swami and Book Distribution

 

"If there is any finger pointing to be done it should be toward those who created all the horrible scandals. To blame Swami Tripurari and other sincere book distributors for the bad reputation of ISKCON is simply ludicrous."

 

January, 15, 2001

From Bhakti Caru Swami's Email conference, Istagosthi.

 

"Srila Prabhupada was once told about Tripurari Swami selling a book to a lady by telling her that the book was about the power shortage in California?" Guru Maharaja (Bhakti Caru Swami) said, "I don't know in what context Srila Prabhuada was told that. These are misconceptions that caused so much damage to our society. In my opinion Tripurari caused the most damage to ISKCON. He destroyed book distribution. He introduced lying, changing up, cheating...and if he is so dear to Srila Prabhupada and loves Srila Prabhupada so much, then why did he leave him? Why did he leave ISKCON? These are not personalities to follow. I know that Srila Prabhupada was a very honest and noble man."

 

----------------------

 

Response from Brahma das,

January 20, 2001

 

Dear Bhakti Caru Swami,

 

Regarding the comments above posted on your Email Conference about Sripad Swami B.V. Tripurari and book distribution. These comments reflect sectarian consciousness at its worst. If Swami Tripurari were a Guru in ISKCON you would not have singled him out. Being outside ISKCON makes him a convenient scapegoat. How book distribution affected the popular appeal of ISKCON began long before anyone named Tripurari was generally known. I joined the movement in 1972. I walked in the temple with sleeping bag in hand at 9am and by 11am I was in the street selling BTGs, long hair and all.

 

Even then people did not want to be bothered and they mostly just tried to avoid us. We chanted and that sometimes drew a crowd but people never lined up to buy books with money in hand like they did in India. Prabhupada set up the movement around book distribution. We were forced to sell books to support the temples. Every day on book distribution we faced a hostile crowd. If we met a few favorable people it made our day. And this was back in 1972. On top of the local pressure to sell books, Prabhupada wanted money for the India projects and funded them through the BBT. Prabhupada knew we needed some grandeur to be widely appreciated in India and he meant to accomplish this by impressive projects.

 

At the same time his hardback books were piling up in the warehouses. When Tripurari das brahmacari along with others developed the techniques to sell them Prabhupada was ecstatic. He named Tripurari Maharaja "the incarnation of book distribution" and ordered him to train us all to sell his books. You allude that Prabhupad did not know what was going on in the airports and how his books were being sold. This is not a fact. Swami Tripurari was in constant contact with Prabhupad and explained to him in detail the activities at the airport. Apart from that a number of leaders complained to Prabhupada about the techniques the distributors used and that the public was being alienated by book distribution. Prabhupad dismissed all their objections and strongly brought any dissidents into line.

 

And you should note he never chastised Tripurari Maharaja in any way about his techniques what to speak of the things you say about him. As a matter of fact Prabhupada often talked and laughed about how the books were being sold and even mentioned the energy crises incident above. Tripurari Maharaja taught the devotees how to present that the solution for every material problem from anxiety to world crises was solved in Prabhupada's books. This did not require lying because it is a fact. Eventually all leaders enlisted Maharaja to train the book distributors in their temple or zone. And in spite of complaints from the public and still from some devotees, Prabhupada pushed us even more. Around 1976 he wrote, "Practically I am whipping them to sell books."

 

Personally, I was also concerned about public perception so in a Vrndavana darshan I said to Prabhupad, "I think the people don't like that we are bothering them to buy our books and asking them for money." Prabhupad replied something like, "Yes, we are giving them a book about Krishna, taking their money and using it to build this beautiful temple.Then we are inviting them all to come and enjoy it. But instead they want to keep their money, build themselves a palace, and put a fence around it and then post a sign that says 'nobody can come in.' So who is in the superior position?"

 

From this it was clear to me that Prabhupada knew we were alienating people but he was willing to accept this in order to get the books out, support the temples and build the India projects. And it was evident that he trusted Tripurari Maharaja enough to personally give him sannyas over the objections of the GBC who wanted him to follow the mandatory two year wait called for in their resolutions.

 

Looking at all this in hindsight, I agree there were excesses and we could have done things better. But even if Miss Manners herself had personally trained us in book distribution etiquette, people would still have complained and fewer books would have been sold. No one likes being continuously bothered for money and that is what we did. At the time of Prabhupada's departure the Western public generally saw us as little more than a bunch of pushy, begging religious zealots. It was after Prabhupada was gone, when the great guru scandals hit the press that public perception changed from considering us simply pushy zealots to seeing the Hare Krishnas as a religious Mafia.

 

And now just when those old scandals were beginning to be forgotten the worst scandal of all has erupted about the schools. If there is any finger pointing to be done it should be toward those who created all these horrible scandals. To blame Swami Tripurari and other sincere book distributors for the bad reputation of ISKCON is simply ludicrous. We should consider what ISKCON would have been like with no book distribution. ISKCON would have consisted of neophyte devotees performing sankirtana and chanting japa while living in whatever small centers they could afford by selling incense and a few books to stores. Although there is nothing wrong with this picture spiritually, it was simply not Prabhupada's idea of dynamic preaching.

 

The grand projects that established ISKCON in India, the farms and beautiful temples in the West, as well as the prestigious international BBT with its various departments would not exist, as we know them today. Seeing things from this view I am confident that Prabhupada knew what he wanted and did what he had to do in order to see his books distributed and his great movement established. If public perception was the most important ideal to consider, than I don't believe Prabhupada would have sent us all out into the streets and airports to bother people to buy books.

 

I was one of those early airport distributors trained personally by Swami Tripurari. I never once regretted this service I had the privilege to perform for His Divine Grace and neither do most book distributors I know. Your sharp words against Swami Tripurari and book distribution are an insult to all that struggled under those adverse conditions to sell Prabhupada's books.

 

Those words should be rethought and retracted because they are untrue and reflect your incomplete knowledge of Prabhupada's feelings on the subject. Maharaja, I remember you as a very nice person with a good heart. You should also consider how those words affect the feelings of all those devotees who gave so much of themselves to fulfilling Prabhupada's desire.

 

It is now almost thirty years after we first began the great push to sell Bhagavad-gitas and Srimad Bhagavatams in the airports and malls of America. It was not an easy task but we did it and still most of us consider those book distribution days the best days of our lives.

 

Respectfully,

Brahma Das

 

======================

 

The name of the conference is: BCS Istagosthi

 

Bhakti Caru Swami

25-Jan-01

BCS Istagosthi

 

Dear readers,

 

Please accept my best wishes. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

I just got to know that the above statement (pertaining to Swami Tripurari) was printed in one of the writings by my secretary, Candrasekhar Acarya dasa. I feel extremely embarrassed that such a statement was broadcast in public. I am also extremely embarrassed that I made a statement like this. A godbrother of mine, Brahma Prabhu, wrote the above letter after reading what I said.

 

I am very thankful to him for correcting me. I also want to request you all not to harbor any negative opinion about Tripurari Maharaja due to my statement about him. As a matter of fact, I am in no position to say such a thing about him. During the early days of ISKCON, he was a great hero of our sankirtan movement. He was one of the pioneers of book distribution and he achieved a lot for Srila Prabhupada. From Brahma Prabhu's letter it will become obvious.

 

It is a pity that I forgot about all the wonderful things that Tripurari Maharaj achieved for Srila Prabhupada and made such a derogatory statement about him. I feel extremely embarrassed about my mentality and dealings.

 

I beg forgiveness from all the Vaisnavas whom I have offended by saying such a statement.

 

Bhakti Charu Swami

 

-------------------------------

 

January 25, 2001.

 

Dear Prabhus and Maharajas,

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. All glories to Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

With straw in my mouth, I prostrate myself at the lotus feet ofHis Holiness Tripurari Maharaja and all the Vaisnavas who feel offended about my reckless and most stupid statement in the BCS istagosthi.

 

I recieved the greatest chastisement from my spiritual master after he found out that I had posted this statement (which he regrets deeply, as evident in his own letter of apology posted on the conference yesterday.). I have already been punished by his words, and I pray to you all not to hold a grudge against me, because without the forgiveness and good wishes of the Vaisnavas, how can I go on in spiritual life?

 

Again, I offer my respectful obeisances to you, your Holiness Tripurari Maharaja, as well as to all the Vaisnavas who felt offended by this statement.

 

I remain,

 

Yours in the service of Nityananda Prabhu (the forgiver of the foolish),

 

Candrasekhar Acarya dasa,

(BCS Istagosthi Conference Secretary)

 

Dear Bhakti Caru Swami,

 

I appreciated your response to my letter regarding Tripurari Swami and book distribution. In my estimation your response is in the best tradition of Vaisnava behavior and reveals the level of your devotion and purity of heart. It is a wonderful example to all devotees of how we should rectify our mistakes as well as see beyond any limited sectarian or political vision. Your humble words have turned everything around and now you can only be praised and appreciated for your saintly character. These words are sure to endear you to everyone including myself as well as Tripurari Swami who told me he was impressed by the level of sincerity found in your reply.

In this regard Srila Sridhar Maharaja, my siksa guru once said,” Vaisnavism is the opposite of mundane politics. Mundane politicians gain position by degrading the position of others and accentuating their own position. Where-as in Vaisnavism we gain position by giving respect and position to others and we lose our position by criticizing or finding fault in others.”

 

Therefore in my opinion, we should take all that happened here as a lesson in Vaisnava character and love. And how love along with mutual respect can transcend all differences and is a blessing to all. Hare Krishna

Sincerely, Brahma Das

 

 

[BDas 0]

Dear JN,

 

At this point it would be best for you to take the humble position like Bhakti Caru Swami and retract your previous statements.

 

Anyway I don't suppose you will because they seem very deep rooted. Perhaps the result of years of negative propaganda you heard from the GBC or the rtvik camp about Swami Tripurari and Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

 

Anyway at this point I will address your charges with Swami's own words from sanga.

Readers can decide for themselves if they are the dangerous deviations you say they are or continual revelation in line with the teachings of Sri Rupa and Sanatana that I believe they are. Hare Krishna, BDas

 

ON SHIVA AS THE GREATEST VAISNAVA

 

Q. You said in a previous Sanga that the Bhagavatam's glorification of

Lord Siva is progaganda. I cannot accept this. How can this be?

 

A. I am simply explaining the truth about the statement in the Bhagavatam,

'vaisnavanam yatah sambhu.' Siva is not the greatest Vaisnava. Thus, this

statement is propaganda, and this was the stated opinion of Om Visnupada

B.R. Sridhara Deva Gowami Maharaja as well. In the Bhagavatam Siva

represents jnana misra bhakti, as revealed by Sanatana Goswami in Brihat

Bhagavatamrita. The fact that some Gaudiyas see him in other ways is

another subject. He was posted at the gate of the rasa stahli. He was not

allowed the priviledge of serving Radha in manjari svarupa. Those who do

this, they are the greatest Vaisnavas. This is the message of Srimad

Bhagavatam.

 

If you do not accept this line of reasoning, how will you explain the verse

that follows this one (vaisnavanam yatah sambhu), wherein it is stated that

Kasi is the highest of holy places (ksetranam caiva sarvesam yatah kasi hy

anuttamam)? This too is propaganda! Bhagavatam teaches that Vrindavan is

the holiest place, not Kasi. These statements come in the section in which

the Bhagavatam is being glorified.

 

The Bhagavatam is saying that as the Ganga is the greatest of rivers,

Acyuta the greatest God, Siva the greatest Vaisnava, Bhagavatam is the

greatest Purana. Here Siva is distinguished from Visnu and described as his

devotee, as no other Purana points out so clearly. Siva is a Vaisnava!

Indeed, he is the greatest Vaisnava, and his place, Kasi, the holiest

tirtha. This is propaganda. Let the Saivaites become Vaisnavas, and let

discussion of the Bhagavata take place in Kasi, where practically everyone

is a mayavadi and no on is interested in the Bhagavatam! This is what the

Bhagavatam is saying in the verse under discussion.

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

I'm not a politician. I won't change my views to please a few people such as yourself. I said what I said, and if we really want to air the dirty laundry we can. But things will start to stink, so I prefer not to.

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by jndas:

Now I'm looking for the company of a realized sadhu who ran to the forests after making ISKCON a mess and says homosexual "commitments" are alright.

 

 

Some of these sadhus went to suburbs instead of forests so they can enjoy ice-cream with their cute female disciples in shopping malls. No ice cream in the forests!

 

[BDas 0]

 

 

'Women, degradation and trust'

 

 

S a n g a Saturday, September 23, 2000

 

 

Saturday September 23, Indira Ekadasi

 

"The Gita has nothing to do with whether or not women can be trusted. Trust

me. Prabhupada trusted his women disciples and his male disciples often

proved untrustworthy."

 

Q&A discussion with Swami B.V. Tripurari.

 

Q. I came across a passage in Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita that

disturbed me very much. The purport to Bg.1.40 reads, 'As children are

prone to be misled women are similarly very prone to degradation.' Later in

the purport Prabhupada says, 'According to Canakya Pandita, women are

generally not very intelligent and therefore not trustworthy.' The Gita

verse itself is acceptable but when it is followed by these other two

statements, it starts looking like female bashing from some harsh, male

dominated viewpoint.

 

A. These apparently sexist statements (and there are some others in the

Bhagavatam as well) have to be balanced with the way in which Srila

Prabhupada engaged women in Krsna's service. He gave them positions of

responsibility, and in spite of what he wrote here and there that might be

considered sexist today, all of his female students loved him dearly as he

did them. The statements themselves arise out of a particular cultural

background, that of 19th century Calcutta, and India's ancient Vedic

traditions.

 

Prabhupada's Gita commentary was written over 50 years ago. Had he written

his commentary today, it may very well have been different. He would have

taken the social and cultural climate of the times into consideration.

Prabhupada was in fact very flexible and very liberal minded. Within

Gaudiya Vaisnavism he took revolutionary strides to improve the status of

women and engage them in spiritual culture. His comments of 50 years ago do

seem conservative and somewhat insensitive to today's postmodern worldview.

But we have to identify Prabhupada with his spirit of making Caitanya

Mahaprabhu's teachings relevant to today, and do that ourselves with his

blessing, and go on from there offering our pranams at his lotus feet again

and again.

 

Here is my rendering of Bg.1.40, the verse under discussion, from my

upcoming Gita commentary: "O Krsna, descendent of Vrsni, when irreligion

increases women are taken advantage of, and when women are abused this

gives rise to inappropriate mixing between men and women from different

castes producing unwanted children."

 

I did not write any commentary on this verse because I felt it was apparent

that the text itself refers to times gone by. Although it is certainly true

that when irreligion increases women can be taken advantage of, in today's

world women can also take advantage of men. Inappropriate mixing between

men and women does often produce unwanted children. This section of the

Gita extols the virtues of family life, that which is vital to a healthy a

society. It should be understood in this way.

 

Otherwise, the argument raised here by Arjuna is one of many arguments he

raises in the Gita based on material considerations in order to justify not

doing Krsna's bidding. All of these arguments are refuted by Krsna when he

takes the discussion to the level of the soul in the second chapter. The

conversation between Arjuna and Krsna begins in chapter two, and the

subject is the soul.

 

From there the discussion moves to the engagement (yoga) that will enable

one to realize the soul from selfless action (karma yoga) to knowledge,

meditation, and ultimately bhakti. This is followed appropriately by the

theology of the Gita in chapters 7-12. Chapters 13-18 further explains the

knowledge that is relevant to self realization and God realization

discussed in brief in the first six chapters. In chapter 18 the conclusion

of the Gita is given, one that reiterates the concluding remarks of chapter

nine.

 

In short, the Gita has nothing to do with whether or not women can be

trusted. Trust me. Prabhupada trusted his women disciples, and his male

disciples often proved untrustworthy. Canakya Pandita's remarks may have

been wise during his time, but they are not spiritual and thus subject to

reconsideration.

 

Women, lower birth, highest goal.



 

S a n g a Friday, June 16, 2000

 

Friday, June 16, Purnima (Full Moon), Snan Yatra (bathing) of Jagannatha

Deva

 

"If the wife is more submissive to Krsna, the husband should follow. The

spiritual position is that everyone - men and women - should be submissive

to Krsna."

 

Q&A discussion with Swami B.V. Tripurari.

 

Q. I heard that verse 9.32 of Bhagavad-Gita can be translated in two ways,

either as Srila Prabhupada did: "O son of Prtha, those who can take shelter

in Me, though they be of lower birth - women, vaisyas, sudras - can attain

the supreme destination." or "...though they be sinful women, vaisyas or

sudras..." Which is true?

 

A. I don't think the Sanskrit supports the translation in which

papayonayah (sinful birth) is used as an adjective to qualify striyah

(women). However, Prabhupada himself did interpret this verse differently

in one of his purports to Srimad Bhagavatam (SB 1.11.19) where he

translated striyah as "prostitutes." Alternately, here is the translation

and commentary I use in my upcoming book 'Bhagavad-gita: Its Feeling and

Philosophy.'

 

"It is certain, O Partha, that those who take refuge in me, even the

lowborn, women, merchants, as well as the working class, attain the highest

goal." Bg. 9.32

 

Commentary: "In this verse Krsna says that even the lowborn, who due to

impiety in their previous life have taken such births, regardless of the

seeds of their past and present harvest, can overcome their impiety if they

take shelter of him in devotion. The sacred literature cites numerous

examples of animal killers and animals themselves being so delivered by the

direct and indirect influence of bhakti.

 

"Women are mentioned in this verse because of the social impediment to

their study of the Vedas in times gone by, as well as the fact that a

woman's birth can subject one to the kind of repression they have suffered

from over the centuries.

 

"Merchants are notorious for being untruthful, and the laborers for their

lack of interest in and qualification for scriptural study. Regardless of

the socioreligious position of all of the above, Krsna does not withhold

himself from them should they try to love him. Indeed, they will surpass

others of greater material qualification who take paths other than bhakti

and attain the highest destination."

 

The spiritual position is that everyone - men and women - should be

submissive to Krsna. If, for example, in a married relationship, the wife

is more submissive to Krsna, her husband should follow her. When Caitanya

Mahaprabhu found that Muknunda's son, Raghunandana, was more Krnsa

conscious than his father, he considered Raghunandana the father and

Mukunda the son.

 

Interested parties can search back issues of Sanga by going to:

 

http://www.eScribe.com/religion/sanga/

 

[Krishnananda dasa 0]

Originally posted by BDas:

 

...Prabhupada's Gita commentary was written over 50 years ago....

 

 

Dear Brahma Prabhu,

 

Tripurari Maharaja made the above-quoted statement in 2000. Does he really mean to assert that Srila Prabhupada wrote his Gita commentary before 1950? Dozens if not hundreds of eyewitnesses could contradict this assertion. Please explain.

[BDas 0]

Dear JN,

 

You wrote:I'm not a politician. I won't change my views to please a few people such as yourself. I said what I said, and if we really want to air the dirty laundry we can. But things will start to stink, so I prefer not to.

 

Reply: Gossip, slander, and Vaisnava aparada

always stinks as does extreme sectarian consciousness. And anyone can see here that politics from the ritvik camp and the GBC is what your position is all about. BD

[BDas 0]

Dear Krishnananda,

 

From what I understand Prabhupad worked on his Gita commentary for years and it was finished before he came to america in the 60s. Some addition along with further editing and its printing was done later after he came here.

 

Hare Krishna, Brahma

[Guest guest]

But did not the original manuscript get ripped off in NYC and Srila Prabhupada rewrote the entire purports?

[Maitreya 0]

My view is that people change and grow.I expect to see great revolutions in the minds and hearts of those that seriously take up this process.

 

Yesterday's demon, today's kanistha-bhakta.

Yesterday's kanistha-bhakta, today's initiating guru.

 

But they must be checked, as all who take on that responsibity must.

 

Prabhupada's words on homosexuality and so-called marriage of homosex people is so clear and strong that for a disciple to ignore it and do the exact opposite is to me a sure sign of a broken connection.

 

To my knowledge this hasn't happened yet and hopefully never will.

 

Who is samsthapaka-acarya is an interesting debate.But one thing I know for sure,it wasn't Allen Ginsberg.

 

Hare Krishna

MC

[BDas 0]

Dear Random,

 

Here is an excerpt from a series of letters recently exchanged between Paramadwaiti Swami, Tripurari Swami, and Srila Narayana Maharaja.

 

This excerpt from a letter written by Srila

Narayana Maharaja clearly shows his deep regard for Swami Tripurari regardless of some differences that have arisen.

 

Dear Sripad Paramadvaita Maharaja,

 

I am offering my dandavats pranams to the lotusfeet of the Vaisnava's, my heartly dandavats pranams to you. All glories to Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga and all glories to Sri Sri Radha Govindaji.

 

I received your letter and have noted the contents carefully. Thank you for conveying your concerns. For a long time I have wanted to meet with you and discuss deeply all the problems that have arisen. In my opinion it is all due to misunderstandings. I have so much honor for you, for Sripad Tripurari Maharaja and for Sripad Nrsingha Maharaja, even for all the sannyasi's and devotees of ISKCON who are really Vaisnavas. Sripad Nrsingha Maharaja has helped me so much in the beginning of my preaching outside India. Sripad Tripurari Maharaja also, I cannot forget their good behavior towards me. I want to give honor to all but unfortunately some problems have arisen due to misunderstanding only. So I humbly request all three of you to meet with me so that we may resolve this. (excerpt from Srila Narayana Maharaja)

 

Dear Random,

 

In consideration of this recent letter don't you think it is a good idea and about time you stopped your gossip and off color remarks about Swami Tripurari?

 

I could go further and post other comments from Srila Narayana M where he talks about how displeased he is with those who misrepresent Vaisnavism or slander Vaisnavas in his name.

 

While it may be true that Swami Tripurari did not have the highest regard for Srila Sridhar M in the beginning. After reading his books and getting away from the malicious slander machine of the GBC he soon became a disciple of Sridhar M and one of his greatest proponents.

 

I know you to be sincere at heart so try to take all this into consideration.

 

And if its an apology you want than I will apologise for myself and on Tripurari Swamis behalf for offending you in the past or any Vaisnava who had regard for Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

 

I hope this helps to cure old wounds.

Sincerely, Brahma

[Guest guest]

The best I can do is drop the subject and not speak of him in public anymore. Hope this is acceptable for you.

[nine9 0]

Originally posted by jndas:

That's the answer that was given when people questioned Bhavananda, Kirtanananda and Hansaduta. Your a frog in the well and need to open your eyes. Those who change the teachings of the acharya are imposters. They will fall down, if they aren't already fallen and concealing it.

No - I simply meant that things can always be expressed with eloquence and consideration and without resorting to insult. That's all. :-)

 

Rama Kesava dasa

(Mark)

 

 

[This message has been edited by nine9 (edited 09-26-2001).]

[BDas 0]

Dear Random,

 

Thats acceptable to me and I believe both Srila Narayana M and Srila Sridhar M.

 

It is also in the best spirit of Vaisnava behavior and shows that underneath the sometimes rough exterior you have a good heart.

 

Hare Krishna, Brahma

[kailasa 0]

>Bhagavatam teaches that Vrindavan is the holiest place, not Kasi.

 

Kasi concerns to Lord Siva, but in maximum sense and to Vrindavan. Lord Siva in maximum sense the God, how He can be manjari? He can not take a position manjari and in this sense He does not represent maximum perfection, But as he brings the value anyone He best of vaisnav.

 

 

 

[kailasa 0]

>Q&A discussion with.....

 

Q. I came across a passage in Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita that

disturbed me very much. The purport to Bg.1.40 reads, 'As children are

prone to be misled women are similarly very prone to degradation.' Later in

the purport Prabhupada says, 'According to Canakya Pandita, women are

generally not very intelligent and therefore not trustworthy.' The Gita

verse itself is acceptable but when it is followed by these other two

statements, it starts looking like female bashing from some harsh, male

dominated viewpoint.

Can be Canakya Pandita Error? SP has told that in west there is no difference between the man and woman, therefore sometimes and man it is not necessary to trust. If the society(community) is operated(controled) by(with) the woman, it is strongly felt.

 

>Prabhupada's Gita commentary was written over 50 years ago

 

Even if will pass 50 000 years this question will not change. Woman more sincere is their strength, but for them the not too steady mind(wit) and is the thin moments which they do not distinguish. Therefore it is better to them to not preach to the men especially if it still woman, instead of the soul, but any woman even if in a spiritual world she(it) a tree, here she(it) will think that she(it) - gopi. If the society(community) or motion is operated(controled) by(with) the woman, it will be destroyed. But most interesting will be if the society(community) will be operated(controled) by(with) two women. Do not think that I badly treat the women, about the men it is possible too much to write, but nevertheless everyone has strong and weak parties. If the woman operates(controls) motion to it(her) it is necessary to take care of a delegation of authority to other woman or to make changes in sastra -"His comments of 50 years ago do seem conservative and somewhat insensitive to today's postmodern worldview." All is correct, it is path to success - I wish good luck.

 

 

>Q. I heard that verse 9.32 of Bhagavad-Gita can be translated in two ways,

either as Srila Prabhupada did: "O son of Prtha, those who can take shelter

in Me, though they be of lower birth - women, vaisyas, sudras - can attain

the supreme destination." or "...though they be sinful women, vaisyas or

sudras..." Which is true?

The transfer(translation) sinful women means that SP it(he) has not introduced ALL women to this category, as true good men.

 

 

 

[amanpeter 0]

Just when you thought you'd heard it all! Program on a local TV channel had someone giving their opinion that the `third eye` is not actually in the forehead... He believes it is the anus!!! WHAT'S NEXT???

[Tarun 6]

The "runs".

[Tarun 6]

I mostly agree with BrahmAji here.

I carried ParamAdvaiti Mhrj's letter from Miami to Alachua in May.

This Narayan Mhrj letter Brahmaji quotes is in response to it.

There were some unfortunate things said by slightly fanatic followers.

I may be more inclined to any Vaisnav who visits our East Coast.

TripurAri Mhrj, Narasimha Mhrj, Visnu Mhrj hardly ever come here.

If they did I'd certainly attend and/or invite others to do so.

We should feel we are belonging to one Big Spiritual Family.

In NYC 3 weeks ago, Bhaktivaibhava Puri Mhrj was mostly attended to and hosted by Narayan Mhrj's zisyas.

Just imagine. So much external conflict was overlooked.

We all know there are slight differences in every vaisnav's mood.

No 2 are alike. Thank God for that!

kotisv asesa vasudhAdi vibhUti-bhinnam

Govindam AdipuruSam tam aham bhajAmi

[amanpeter 0]

From the latest official "Contract Between ISKCON Toronto and a Devotee Wishing to Live in the Temple":

 

"Fraternizing with the members of the opposite sex is strictly forbidden."

 

This does seem to create opportunities for homosexuals that are not available to heterosexuals. Witness certain late night `pizza parties` in one of the cook's rooms which continued until his advances towards young bhakta's became too obvious to ignore.

 

Any atmosphere of enforced celibacy can become a `breeding` ground for homosexual liasons when the sexes are separated yet still present together. In that sense, those who are pre-disposed to those activities could be considered advantagedand not disadvantaged...

 

Unfortunately, many(most?) are using ISKCON temples for anything but the cultivation of Krsna conciousness and thus interfering unnecessarily with the few sincere souls, whatever their sexual orientation, that come seeking exactly that.

 

[Audarya lila 0]

Dear Karthik,

 

My vision is certainly limited, as is any conditioned souls. That is why I have taken shelter of my Guru Maharaja whose vision is not clouded. Please read these enlightening words by Srila Prabhupada. It is certainly the perogative and necessity of the pure devotee to make adjustments to suit the times, with the aim bringing all to Krsna.

 

Prabhupada: But the directions should be taken from scriptures. But there are many scriptures. So acarya means, just like Gosvamis, they would read all the scriptures and take the essence of it and give it to his disciples, "You act like this." Because he knows what to give, how to manipulate, so that his ekantatah sreyas will be acheived. Ultimate goal. therefore the acarya knows how to adjust things, at the same time keep pace with the spiritual interest (?). That is acarya. It is not that the same thing can be applied everywhere. He is eager to engage actually the people in the real benefit of life, but the means may be different. Just like my guru Maharaja. He is the first sannyasi to drive in a motorcar. A sannyasi never drives in a motorcar, you see? But not for sense gratification. Suppose we are going by aeroplane. A sannyasi should walk. The Jain sannyasis they never ride on a car, you know that. You know that. They will never ride in a car. But now they are also riding. But suppose we are preaching now. I came from India. If I were to say,"I am sannyasi, I will not ride in aeroplane, I must walk." Then what kind of preaching would have been? You see? So therefore it depends on the acarya how to adjust things. So, my Guru Mahraraja,"alright go on preaching on a motorcar, it doesn't matter." These Gosvamis, they went to Vrndavana, severest type of austerities. They used to live underneath a tree. Now if in this age I advise that you also live underneath a tree, then it will be difficult to preach. You see? Nobody is accustomed in that way, such severe type of austerity. They must be given, as far as possible, comfortable accomodations otherwise they will not come. They will not take. Now this.....This is adjustment. The acarya knows how to adjust things. The real purpose is how one will take to spiritual consicousness, or Krnsa consciousness. Keepng one's aim to that point some concession may be given.

 

This is Krsna consciousness and requires some thoughtfulness and flexibility. I am not manufacturing the idea that a teacher, or acharya's function is to present the teachings according to time, place and circumstance. This is required, otherwise what kind of teacher will we have? One who doesn't understand the essence and have the ability to bring others to Krsna is not an acharya. This is a spiritual principle and is clearly enunciated by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami in the above quote.

 

No one is advocating creating a new religion or some grand deviation. Some saw Srila Prabhupada's innovations that way, but obviously they were grossly mistaken. He came to America and he adjusted things accordingly so that the environment would be conducive to spiritual advancement. He certainly took into consideration the time, place and circumstance. These three things are in constant flux and there will forever be the need for the divine preceptor to present the teachings accordingly so that advancement in Krsna consciousness is assured.

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa