Eligibility for Raganuga Bhakti

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Eligibility for Raganuga Bhakti

 

The siddha-deha does not just come falling out of the sky, but must be formed here and now by mental practise. Srila Narottama dasa Thakura sings:

 

 

sadhane bhavibe yaha, siddha dehe pabe taha

raga marge ei sei upaya

 

"Whatever you think of during your sadhana, you will attain in your siddhi-body. Those are the ways of raga marga."(Prema-bhakti-candrika, 57)

 

 

sadhane ye dhana cai, siddha dehe taha pai,

pakkapakka matra se vicara

 

"The treasure I covet during my sadhana I will receive in my siddha body. The only difference between the two is being ripe and unripe. (Prema-bhakti-candrika, 56)" This means that the difference between the struggling practitioner and the siddha is only in quantity and not in quality.

 

That the siddha-deha does not come from out of the blue, but must be formed through constant meditation is also confirmed in Bhagavad Gita, 8.6:

 

 

yam yam vapi smaran bhavam tyajanty ante kalevaram

tam tam evaiti kaunteya sada tad bhavabhavitah

 

"Whatever one contemplates throughout life is what one attains when one leaves the body."

 

In the Srimad Bhagavata (7.1.27) it is said:

 

 

kitah pesaskrtaruddhah kudyayam tam anusmaran

samrambhabhayayogena vindate tatsvarupatam

 

"The caterpillar imprisoned by a wasp in (its nest on) a wall, and constantly thinking of the latter through intense hate and fear, attains the form of the wasp."

 

In the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu (1.2.295) we find:

 

 

seva sadhakarupena siddharupena catra hi

tadbhavalipsuna karya vrajalokanusaratah

 

"A person who desires loving attraction to his beloved deity Sri Krsna in Vraja must serve in allegiance to the people of Vraja, both in the current practitioner's body as well as in the spiritual, mentally conceived body, which is fit for serving the beloved deity." Mental service must be rendered in the spiritual body in allegiance to Sri Radha, Lalita and Rupa Mañjari and service in the current physical body must be rendered in allegiance to Vraja-people like Sri Rupa and Sanatana, according to the commentary thereon by Sri Visvanatha Cakravarti, as well as in his Raga-vartma-candrika. In the Caitanya-caritamrta, (Madhya, 22.154-155):

 

 

bahya antara ihara dui to sadhana

bahya - sadhaka dehe kore sravana kirtana

mane - nija siddha deha koriya bhavana

ratri dine kore vraje krsnera sevana

 

"There are two kinds of practise - external and internal. In the external practitioner's body the nine devotional practices of hearing, chanting, praising, deity worship etc. are performed and in the mentally conceived spiritual body one renders mental service to Krsna in Vraja day and night."

 

This siddha body should be received from the guru, according to Sri Gopalaguru Gosvami (disciple of Vakresvara Pandita, personal servant of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and first mahanta of the Gambhira Matha in Puri), Dhyanacandra Gosvami (disciple of Gopalaguru Gosvami) and Sri Bhaktivinoda Thakura (last chapter of his book Harinama-cintamani), who was the father of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. Sri Jiva Gosvami says in his Bhakti-sandarbha (283) on initiation:

 

 

divyam jñanam hyatra srimati mantre bhagavatsvarupajñanam tena bhagavata sambandhavisesa-jñanam ca

"Initiation bestows on the disciple not only the mantra, that is God's very form, but also knowledge about his specific relation with Him." In the Bhakti-sandarbha (321) Sri Jiva Gosvami says:

 

 

saksadvrajajana-visesayaiva mahyam srigurucaranair madabhista-visesa-siddhyartham upadistam bhavayami

 

"I meditate on the specific form of one of Krsna's associates in Vraja, which my Sri Guru-carana has instructed me in, so that I can attain my specifically desired siddhi." We must assume that this means a little more than the self esteem of: "I am a 20-year old book distributor for Krsna on a parking lot," however devotional this may be.

 

Modern Gaudiya Math acaryas desperately try to escape from the above scriptural evidence by saying: "yes, but nowadays nobody is qualified for siddha-pranali anymore." To this can be said (1) that Bhaktivinoda wrote his Jaiva-dharma and Harinama-cintamani in the 20th century, not the 16th and (2) the Bhagavata (11.5.38) states: kalau khalu bhavisyanti narayana-parayanah, "throughout the age of Kali there will be Vaisnavas."

 

16 b) Raganuga bhakti is not only for perfected souls beyond the stage of anartha-nivrtti. In the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu (1.2.5) Rupa declares that there are two kinds of sadhana (after first explaining that sadhana-bhakti means practise with the senses, by souls that are still conditioned)- vaidhi and raganuga, and nowhere it is said that raganuga bhakti is a post graduate state of vaidhi bhakti. In the Caitanya-caritamrta (Madhya 22.108) Kaviraja confirms this:

 

 

ei sadhana bhakti dui to prakara

eka vaidhibhakti - raganuga bhakti ara

 

"There are two kinds of devotion in practise. One is called vaidhi bhakti and the other raganuga bhakti." There is no mention of the latter's being a culmination of the former. Krsnadasa also declares (C.c., Adi, 4.231-237) that, although raganuga bhakti is indeed a confidential topic, it must still be discussed, for otherwise no one would be able to enter into this knowledge. In the Srimad Bhagavata (10.33.36) we find that Krsna performed the Rasa-lila out of compassion for all conditioned souls and that anyone who hears it becomes a devotee. Sri Jiva Gosvami teaches us in his Vaisnava-tosani comment on this verse:

 

 

ataeva tadrsabhaktaprasangena tadrsih sarvacittakarsinih krida bhajate, yah sadharanir api srutva bhaktebhyo 'nyo 'pi janas tatparo bhavet. kim uta rasalilarupam imam srutvetyarthah. vaksyate ca: vikriditam vrajavadhubhir idam ca visnoh (S.B. 10.33.39) ityadi. yad va, manusam deham asritah sarvo 'pi jivas tatparo bhavet, martyaloke sribhagavadavatarat tatha bhajane mukhyatvac ca manusyanam eva sukhena tac chravanadisiddheh

"Krsna performs this all-attractive game for His devotees, but even ordinary people are attracted to this game by hearing about it. Even they thus become exclusively devoted to the Lord. There is no doubt about this, and it will be further explained in verse 10.33.39. The words manusam deham asritah also indicate that the jivas that attained a human form are able to hear of this game and thus become devotees. The Lord descends on the human planets and it is here that the worship of the Lord assumes its most important form. Hence human beings can blissfully attain perfection by hearing of this game." In the S.B. (10.33.39) one hears that the senses do not become sexually agitated by hearing or reading of the Rasa-lila, but rather that they become freed from lust:

 

 

vikriditam vraja-vadhubhir idam ca visnoh

sraddhanvito 'nusrnuyad atha varnayed yah

bhaktim param bhagavati pratilabhya kamam

hrdrogamasvapahinotyacirena dhirah

 

"Anyone who faithfully hears and describes the pastimes of Lord Visnu (Krsna) with the ladies of Vraja (the gopis) will attain supreme devotion to God and will soon become free from the heart's disease of lust." Sri Jiva Gosvami comments as follows on this verse:

 

 

sraddhaya visvasenanvita iti. tad viparitavajñarupaparadhanivrttyartham ca nairantaryartham ca. tacca phalavaisistyartham, ataeva yo 'nu nirantaram srnuyat. athanantaram svayam varnayec ca, upalaksanam caitat smarec ca. bhaktim premalaksanam param srigopikapremanusaritvat sarvottamajatiyam. pratiksanam nutanatvena labdhva; hrdrogarupam kamam iti bhagavadvisayah kamaviseso vyavacchinnah, tasya paramapremarupatvena tadvaiparityat. kamam ityupalaksanam anyesam api hrd-roganam. anyatra sruyate (srigita, 18.54): "brahmabhutaprasannatma na socati na kanksati, samah sarvesu bhutesu madbhaktim labhate param." ityatra tu hrdrogapahanat purvam eva paramabhaktipraptih. tasmat paramabalavad evedam sadhanam iti bhavah.

"Sraddhanvita means hearing with faith. This word is used to avoid the offence of disbelieving or disregarding the scriptures - that is contrary to the principles of hearing and chanting. The highest devotion is that of the gopis and hearing and chanting of their devotion is so powerful that this supreme devotion appears in the heart even before the heart's disease of lust is chased out of it. This despite the verse 18.54 of the Gita, which shows an opposite sequence. This shows that hearing and chanting of the Rasa-lila is the most powerful sadhana in existence." In other words, saying: "Don't read Rasa-lila unless you are free from sex desire" is like saying "Don't take the medicine unless and until you are cured." How will you get cured without taking the medicine?

 

Sri Prabodhananda Sarasvati says in his Vrndavana-mahimamrta (4.38):

 

 

yam yam rupavatim navinatarunim lavanyalilakala-

madhuryair munimohinim anuratam bhavotsavavyañjanim

tam tam viksya sa thutkaroti paramam divyam api sphuritam

sriradhapadakinkaripada-nakha-pranto 'pi yasyatmani

 

"A person in whose heart even the borders of the toenails of Sri Radha's female foot-servants have arisen will spit in disgust when he sees even the most beautiful young, elegant, playful artistic girl, whose sweetness may bewilder even great sages, and who causes a festival of loving feelings."

 

There is no guarantee at all that someone who practises vaidhi bhakti is automatically promoted to raganuga bhakti, rather Srila Rupa Gosvami says in his Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu: krsna-tadbhakta-karunya-matra-labhaika-hetuka, "only by the grace of Krsna and His devotees is this path of raganuga bhakti attained." The bhavas or feelings that come forth from the two different paths (vaidhi and raganuga) are totally different (see the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, 1.3.7-14) and so are the kinds of prema (love) (see Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, 1.4.5-8).

 

By reading the books of the Gosvamis, the seed of raganuga bhakti can be sown. If we were not allowed to read them because we are still conditioned, then they were written for nothing, for how can you become free from conditioning without having read them? This is described in Srila Rupa Gosvami's Padyavali:

 

 

krsnabhaktirasabhavita matih

kriyatam yadi kuto 'pi labhyate

tatra laulyam api mulyam ekalam

janmakotisukrtair na labhyate

 

"No ten million lifetimes of following regulative principles will give you taste for Krsna-bhakti. The only price is greed! Purchase it as soon as it is available anywhere!" It is on sale where the rasika bhaktas speak about Radha-Krsna. In connection with the above sloka, to use the saying "Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread" is an offense to Sri Rupa Gosvami and all his followers, calling them fools. This 'fools rush in' is a mundane saying which only applies to mundane impulsive people and their actions. Srila Visvanatha Cakravartipada teaches in his Raga-vartma-candrika (1.5): napi lobhaniyavastupraptau svasya yogyayogyatvavicarah ko 'py udbhavati, "no candidate ever considers whether he is qualified for this path of raganuga bhakti or not."

 

One cannot learn vaidhi bhakti from the guru and then just learn raganuga bhakti from books, because one's guru did not teach one raganuga bhakti. One should take both initiation and teachings from a raganuga guru (asambhasya tadbhavagambhiracittan kuto syamasindho rasasyavagahah says Raghunatha dasa Gosvami: "How can one enter into the Syama-ocean without having conversed with a devotee whose heart is steeped in love for Radha?")

 

16 c) Bhaktisiddhanta's self-styled theory 'first maranam (death of the ego) and then smaranam (remembering Krsna's pastimes)" is also contrary to the teachings of the Gosvamis. Srila Narottama dasa Thakura sings in the Prema-bhakti-candrika:

 

 

sadhana smarana lila, iha na koriho hela

 

"Do not neglect the sadhana (practise, not perfection) of smarana." Again the reverse order: First smarana, then marana, not 'first get cured and then take the medicine." And not just smarana, Srila Narottama dasa Thakura even goes further to specify yugalavilasasmrtisara, "the essential smarana is of the amorous pastimes of Radha and Krsna."

 

16 d) The idea that "Radharani's name can only be sung on Radhastami" is refuted by Srila Prabodhananda Sarasvati in the Radha-rasa-sudhanidhi (144): radhanamaiva hy anudinamilitam sadhanadhisakotih, "millions of sadhana are fulfilled by daily singing the holy name of Radha." Srila Narottama das Thakura sings: krsna-nama radha-nama upasana rasa-dhama, "singing Krsna's name and Radha's name is the most tasty spiritual practise," jaya jaya radha-nama vrndavana jara dhama krsna-sukha-vilasera nidhi, "all glories to the holy name of Radha that has its abode in Vrndavana and forms the ocean of Krsna's blissful game," and the next couplet, ihate vimukha yei, tara kabhu siddhi nei, yeno nahi suni tara nama, "anyone who is against this will never reach perfection. Let us not even hear their names."

 

16 e) Some say that Krsna and the gopis only kiss and caress, but do not have actual sexual intercourse. However, the Brahma-samhita says angani yasya sakalendriya-vrttimanti, Krsna performs all sensual activities. Furthermore, Srila Sanatan Goswami writes in his commentary on Srimad Bhagavata 10.14.33 and in his Brhad Bhagavatamrta-tika (2.7.99): nanu na bhavatu pumsam upasthendriyadvara tat gopinam kila saksadeva sampadyate iti cet tarhi dharstyapariharaya, "Of course, male people of Vraja do not relish Krsna's sweetness through their genitals, but the gopis certainly have direct experience of that. Brahma, however, was too shy to mention that." In the Srimad Bhagavata (10.8.31), the elderly gopis complain: evam dharstyany usati kurute mehanadini vastau, "Krsna is so impudent to pass urine in our houses." How can He urinate without genitals? Also in the Bhagavata (10.22.17) it is said: panibhyam yonim acchadya "The gopis covered their sexual organs with their hands." In the Bhagavata at 10.55.2 we find: krsnaviryasamudbhavah "Pradyumna came forth from Krsna's semen."

 

17) Doing bhajana is not selfish, or acting purely for one's own liberation. To understand this, one first must understand what is the self. Srimad Bhagavata (10.14.55) says: krsnam enam avehi tvam atmanam akhilatmanam, "Krsna is the Self of the selves." The whole preceding story of Krsna's calves and cowherd boyfriends being kidnapped and His expanding Himself into them, and then the mothers and the cows loving their (the Krsna-expanded) boys and calves twice as much as their own offspring, is meant to demonstrate this. In other words, bhajana is done to please Krsna, who is our highest Self, and not to reach personal salvation. The Vedanta-sutra states: anandamayo 'bhyasat, "everyone seeks happiness."

 

For the same reason, the aspiration to relish rasa is not a selfish one. Indeed, Srila Rupa Gosvami has stated in the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu that the goal of bhakti sadhana is to relish rasa:

 

 

samagripariposena parama rasarupata (2.1.4)

vibhavair anubhavais ca sattvikair vyabhicaribhih

svadyatvam hrdi bhaktanam anita sravanadibhih

esa krsnaratih sthayi bhavo bhaktiraso bhavet (2.1.5)

praktanyadhuniki casti yasya sadbhaktivasana

esa bhaktirasasvadas tasyaiva hrdi jayate (2.1.6)

...

bhaktanam hrdi rajanti samskarayugalojjvala

ratiranandarupaiva niyamana tu rasyatam (2.1.9)

krsnadibhir vibhavadyair gatairanubhavadhvani

praudhanandacamatkarakastham apadyate param (2.1.10)

kimtu prema vibhavadyaih svalpair nito 'pyaniyasim

vibhavanadyavastham tu sadya asvadyatam vrajet (2.1.11)

 

"Along with these ingredients it becomes the form of highest rasa. This relishable rasa is brought to the hearts of the devotees by vibhavas, anubhavas, sattvikas and vyabhicari bhavas through the practises of hearing, chanting etc. Those who have had the aspiration for devotion in this life and in previous lives, will have the relish of bhakti rasa awakened within the heart. When these two samskaras or cultivations of devotion (from this life and the previous life) reside in the hearts of the devotees it will culminate in the experience of rasa in the form of rati ananda, with the help of vibhavas (incitements) such as Krsna. Then the summit of astonishment and ecstasy will be achieved. Although very small incitements will bring forth very meager relish, this relish will come to full fruition of relish through proper practise."

 

Preaching is not a greater service to Krsna than contemplation. The often (mis-)quoted verse ya idam paramam guhyam madbhaktesvabhidhasyati (Gita, 18.68) contains the words madbhaktesu, proving that this verse describes Krsna-katha amongst the devotees, not disturbing of the minds of the ignorant, which is condemned earlier in the Gita (3.29, tan akrtsnavido mandan krtsnavin na vicalayet), and which is also an offence to the chanting of the holy name (asraddadhane vimukhe 'pyasrnvati yas copadesah sivanamaparadhah). Furthermore, the aforementioned Gita verse (18.68) mentions the words paramam guhyam which means the greatest secret, pearls that are not to be thrown before swine. How do the conditioned souls become devotees then? The Katha Upanisad (1.2.23)provides the answer:

 

 

nayam atma pravacanena labhyo na medhaya na bahuna srutena

yam evaisa vrnute tena labhyas tasyaisa atma vivrnute tanum svam

 

"God cannot be attained by preaching lectures, nor with the intelligence, nor by hearing a lot of scripture. He is attained only by him upon whom He confers His grace. To this person He will reveal His transcendental body."

 

Subsequently, those who think: "I am making devotees", or "He has made so many devotees" is bewildered by false ego. The Bhagavad Gita (3:27) says: ahankara vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate, "Those who are bewildered by false ego think: "I am doing things." The verses in sastra that glorify or encourage preaching and preachers are for those who are on that level of mentality and realisation. Unfortunately most preachers are after labha, puja and pratistha - money, worship and distinction.

 

18) The origin of the jiva is not the spiritual, but the material world: There is ample evidence in the Srimad Bhagavata (2.9.10):

 

 

pravartate yatra rajas tamas tayoh

sattvam ca misram na ca kalavikramah

na yatra maya kim utapare harer

anuvrata yatra surasurarcitah

 

"In Vaikuntha there is no mode of passion, darkness or even mixed goodness, there is no power of time, and there is no maya (who can pull the devotee out of the spiritual world)."

 

In the Srimad Bhagavata (4.28.52) it is mentioned that the jiva was with God, but according to Sri Visvanatha Cakravarti in his Sarartha-darsini commentary the jiva meant there only merged with Him as Mahavisnu during the universal dissolution. Sri Jiva Gosvami declares the same in his comment on Srimad Bhagavata, verses 4.28.54 and 64:

 

 

svasthah pradhanikavesarahitah san tad vyabhicarena purvam isvarakhyahamsabahirmukhataya nastam tirohitam smrtim janasi api kim sakhayam mam ityapi smarasi catmanam avijñatasakham ityatra purvoktam sakhyanusandhanam punarapa iti. atra punahsabdena smrtisabdena tadvismrter nasadikhandanam vivaksitam kintu anadyavrtasyapi sakhyasya svabhavikatvad anaditvam ityeva krtahanyakrtabhyagamaprasangat.

"Being svasthah means 'being free from the possession of material nature" tad vyabhicarena means 'not devoted to the swan called isvara. Because of this the memory was lost - nastam. Punar apa means 'regained the consciousness of friends' as was stated in words such as janasi kim sakhayam mam (4.28.52). Here the use of the words punah and smrtih is to indicate the disappearance or destruction of forgetfulness. But that forgetfulness is certainly beginningless although the friendship, which is also covered without beginning, is natural."

 

In the Srimad Bhagavata (6.5.11) we find: bhuh ksetram jivasamjñam yadanadi nijabandhanam, "the earth is a field known as the jiva who has been conditioned since beginningless time," and again (11.2.37): bhayam dvitiyabhinivesatah syad isad apetasya viparyayo 'smrtih, "the apeta, or turning away from God by the jiva, is anadi, beginningless, and that also accounts for fear bhaya. Asmrti means, according to Sri Visvanatha Cakravarti, not forgetting Krsna, but one's own spiritual nature. Viparyaya means taking something for what it isn't, like identifying oneself with the body, which one is not.

 

More evidence is provided by Srimad Bhagavata (11.11.4)

 

 

ekasyaiva mamamsasya jivasyaiva mahamate

bandho 'syavidyayanadir vidyaya ca tathetarah

Sri Krsna tells Uddhava: 'Although I am one, O highly intelligent one, it is in relation to the jiva alone, which is a reflection of Mine, that bondage has existed from beginningless time and it is in relation to the jiva alone that the other state (liberation) is brought about through spiritual knowledge."

 

In the Srimad Bhagavata (11.11.7) we find: yo 'vidyaya yuk sa tu nitya-baddho vidyamayo yah sa tu nitya-muktah. "The ignorant soul is eternally bound and the soul filled with knowledge is eternally free," and in the Vedanta-sutra (2.1.35): na karmavibhagad iti cen nanaditvat. "If someone says that the theory of karma cannot explain the inequality within the world, because everyone must have had the same karma in the beginning of creation, then that is not true, for karma is beginningless." In the Mandukya Upanisad (1.9) is the statement: bhogartham srstir ity anye kridartham iti capare, devasyaisa svabhavo 'yam aptakamasya ka sprha. "Some say that He created the world for His enjoyment and others say for His play. That is simply His nature. He is, after all, Self-satisfied - which desires has He left to fulfill?" and (1.16): anadimayaya supto yada jivah prabudhyate, ajam anidram asvapnam advaitam budhyate tada - "When the living entity, who is sleeping the beginningless slumber of illusion, awakens, he realises the unborn, unsleeping, undreaming non-dual truth." [Neither of these citations are in the Mandukya Upanisad. Their source is currently unknown. - Ed.]

 

Sri Jiva Gosvami writes in his Paramatma-sandarbha (46):

 

 

tadevam ananta eva jivakhyas tatasthah saktayah. tatra tasam vargadvayam. eko vargo 'nadita eva bhagavadunmukhah anyas tvanadita eva bhagavatparanmukhah. svabhavatas tadiyajñanabhavat tadiyajñanabhavac ca.

 

 

"There are innumerable spirit souls and they are the marginal potency of God. There are two classes of them: one class is favorable to God from beginningless time, and the other class is turned away from God from beginningless time. The first class is naturally full of knowledge and the other is without knowledge."

 

In the Caitanya-caritamrta, (Antya, 3,72-74):

 

 

prabhu kahe sab jiva mukti yabe pabe

ei to brahmanda tabe sab sunya habe

haridasa bale 'tomara yavat martye sthiti

tavat sthavara jangama sarva jivajati

 

 

 

 

 

sab mukti kari tumi vaikunthe pathaibe

suksma jive punah karma udbuddha karibe

sei jiva habe iha sthavara jangama

tahate bharibe brahmanda yena purva sama

 

Mahaprabhu said: "If all the conditioned souls would attain liberation the world would become empty." Haridasa replied: "As long as You are in this mortal world You will liberate all the mobile and immobile creatures and send them to Vaikuntha. Then You will again engage subtle (dormant, new) living entities in further fruitive activities, and these mobile and immobile living entities will fill the world up like before"

 

This is in line with Visnu-dharmottara Purana (1.81.12):

 

 

ekaikasmin nare muktim kalpe kalpe gate dvija

abhavisyajjagac chunyam kalasyader abhavatah

 

"Because time has no beginning, the world would be empty by now if only one person per kalpa had been liberated."

 

Markandeya answers (1.81.13-14):

 

 

jivasyanyasya sargena nare muktim upagate

acintyasaktir bhagavan jagat purayate sada

brahmana saha mucyante brahmalokam upagatah

srjyante ca mahakalpe tadvidhas capare janah

 

"When someone is liberated, the Supreme Lord, who has inconceivable potency, creates another jiva and and thus always keeps the world full. Those who attain Brahmaloka become liberated along with Brahma. Then, in the next kalpa, the Lord creates similar beings."

 

Sri Jiva says in the Priti-sandarbha (1):

 

 

atha jivas ca tadiyo 'pi tajjñana-samsargabhava-yuktatvena tanmayaparabhutah san natmasvarupajñanalopan mayakalpitopadhyavesac canadisamsaraduhkena sambadhyate iti paramatmasandarbhadav eva nirupitam asti. paramatmavaibhavaganane ca tattatasthasaktirupanam cidekarasanam apy anadiparatattvajñanasamsargabhavamayatadvaimukhyalabdhacchidraya tanmayayavrtasvasvarupajñananam tayaiva sattvarajastamomaye jade pradhane racitatmabhavanam jivanam samsaraduhkam ca jñapitam.

 

 

"Although the jiva is part of the Lord, he is without knowledge of Him and this deficiency has no beginning. Because of this he is covered by maya. Thus he is united with the beginningless material miseries because his knowledge of his svarupa is covered and he is absorbed in false designations. From beginningless time he is bereft of knowledge of the Supreme truth and thus he has attained the fault of aversion towards God, whose maya covers over his knowledge of his constitutional position and fills him with feelings created by maya, consisting of sattva, rajas, and tamas. This was explained in the Paramatma-sandarbha (47): tatparanmukhatva-dosena labdha-chidraya mayaya paribhutah, where labdha, the attainment, must be considered without time sequence, anadi as stated above.

 

In the Bhakti-sandarbha (120) Jiva quotes from the Vasanabhasya:

 

 

mukta api prapadyante punah samsaravasanam

yady acintyamahasaktau bhagavaty aparadhinah

 

 

 

"Offenders to the Lord will again get material desires, even if they are liberated souls."

 

Here the word punah means 'again', which proves that this verse does not apply to eternally liberated souls who fall from the spiritual world. The aparadhis (offenders) mentioned here are the mayavadis that are described in Srimad Bhagavata (10.2.32): aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adho 'nadrtayusmadanghrayah. But this does not count for the bhaktas, as is described in the next verse (10.2.33): tatha na te madhava tavakah kvacid, bhrasyanti margat tvayi baddha-sauhrdah. Srila Jiva Gosvami comments (Bhakti-sandarbha, 120): yatha purve arudhaparamapadatvavasthato 'pi bhrasyanti, tatha tavaka margat sadhanavasthato 'pi na bhrasyanti, kimuta mrgyat tvatta ityarthah. Mayavadis fall down even from the stage of perfection, but even in the stage of sadhana Your devotees do not fall down, what to speak of after attaining You?"

 

According to Sri Visvanatha Cakravarti's commentary on Srimad Bhagavata (3.7.10): tatra bhagavatah prsthasthitaya anadyavidyaya tamahsvarupaya anadivaimukhyarupabhagavatprstha-sthanam jivanam jñanam yal lupyate tasya na vastutvam karanam napi prayojanam kim apy asti. "Ignorance, which is beginningless, is situated on the Lord's back. She covers the knowledge of the jivas who are situated on the Lord's back and are non-devotees. Their non-devotion is anadi. There is no real reason or purpose for their knowledge being covered."

 

Sri Visvanatha Cakravarti's commentary on Srimad Bhagavata (10.87.32) also shows no jivas that have fallen from the spiritual world:

 

 

te ca meghopamaya avidyaya avrta baddhajiva eke anye bhaktimajjñanena tadavaranonmukta muktajivah anye kevalaya pradhanibhutaya va bhaktya tadavaranonmocitaprapitacidanandamayabhajanopayogisarirah siddhabhakta anye avidyayogarahita eva nityaparsada iti caturvidhah

 

 

"There are four types of jivas: 1. baddha - those under the influence of the avidya potency. 2. mukta - those liberated from the covering of avidya through bhakti, but who have not yet attained a spiritual body. These are also called jivanmuktas or liberated while living in the material body. 3. siddha - those who have attained a siddha-deha on the strength of bhakti. These are called baddha-muktas or those liberated after being in bondage. 4. nitya-parsadas - those eternally free from contact with ignorance. They never become conditioned, and are also called nitya-siddhas or nitya-muktas."

 

In his comment on Bhagavad-gita (13.20) Sri Visvanatha Cakravarti declares that the conditioning of the conditioned souls is beginningless: mayajivayor api macchaktitvena anaditvat tayoh samsleso 'py anadir iti bhavah. "Illusion and the conditioned souls are both My energies. They are both beginningless and they have been interconnected since beginningless time as well." The word dvesa in Bhagavad-gita (7.27) does not mean envy of Krsna, for you cannot be envious of someone you don't know.

 

In the Brhad-bhagavatamrta Sarupa calls himself a newcomer, nutna (2.6.359): dure 'stu tavad varteyam tatra nityanivasinam, na tisthed anusandhanam nutnanam madrsam api, and later (2.6.366): tallokasya svabhavo 'yam krsnasangam vinapi yat, bhavet tatraiva tisthasa na cikirsa ca kasyacit. "Nobody desires to leave Goloka."

 

Assuming that previously fallen jivas who return to the spiritual world are superior to those who have stayed, because they are shocked by their experience, is not just a speculation, but also an offence to the nitya-muktas. This presupposes that it is better to fall down than to stay and that the 'returners' can anyway remember their ordeal in the material world when they return. That would make devotion out of fear of punishment greater than spontaneous loving devotion, and would make the spiritual world into a concentration-camp. Regarding free will, this is gradually given up in the course of surrender. A siddha-bhakta will never misuse this free will because his surrender is irreversible. When the sadhana-siddha jiva attains the spiritual world he remembers nothing of the material world, for his subtle body has been dissolved through the transcendental process of bhakti.

 

Regarding the fall of Jaya and Vijaya: The feeling of enmity they acquired for the Lord was not because of the Kumaras' curse, but by the will of the Lord. Even so, the Lord did not consider them His enemies. He just wanted to enjoy fighting with them. One should not think that Jaya and Vijaya chose to become the Lord's enemies so that they could finish the curse quickly, because great devotees like them do not desire even salokya mukti without bhakti. And with bhakti they are willing even to go to hell (Bhag. 3.15.48: natyantikam viganayanty ...) They wanted to please the Lord by fighting with Him, but they did not literally choose to become the Lord's enemies so that they could give pleasure to Him. Such a desire is undevotional. Srila Jiva Gosvami further says that their inimical feelings were not real but feigned (abhasa). They entered into demoniac bodies but remained untouched within.

 

As far as Citraketu is concerned, although he offended mother Parvati, he did not fall into material life. Even in a demon's body, as Vrtrasura, he recited wonderful prayers to the Lord.

 

In conclusion: there is no scriptural evidence for the jivas' falling from the spiritual sky. It is not supported by the acaryas, not by our acaryas, nor by those of any other sampradaya. The spiritual world would not be Vaikuntha, the fearless abode, nor would it be free from maya.

 

19) Loud japa is not better than mental japa. In the Haribhakti-vilasa the Narasimha Purana and Yajñavalkya are cited (17.155-159):

 

 

trividho japayajñah syat tasya bhedan nibodhata

vacikasca upamsusca manasasca tridha matah

...

mantram uccarayed vyaktam japayajñah sa vacikah

...

kiñcicchabdam svayam vidyad upamsuh sa japah smrtah

...

upamsuyuktasya tasmacchataguno bhavet

sahasro manasah prokto yasmad dhyanasamo hi sah

 

 

 

"There are three kinds of japa - vocal, muttering and mental. Loud chanting of the mantra is called vocal japa, whispering is called upamsu and mental chanting is called manasika japa. Whispering is a hundred times better than loud japa and mental chanting is a thousand times better. This is equal to meditation."

 

20) There is no santa-rasa in Vraja; the animals and non-moving species are not in santa rasa. Mahaprabhu proclaims in Caitanya-caritamrta that He makes the three worlds dance in four rasas (cari bhava bhakti diya nacaimu bhuvana), not in five. Hantayam adrir abala haridasa varyah (Bhag. 10.21.18) confirms that mountains like Giriraja are in dasya-rasa. The cows in Vraja are in vatsalya-rasa (see the Bhagavata Canto 10, Chapter 13). The statement vamsi priyasakhi from the Brahma-samhita prove that even the flute is in madhura-rasa.

 

21) Regular devotees are not addressed with prabhu. eka mahaprabhu, ara prabhu dui jana (C.C.): "There is only one Mahaprabhu and there are two prabhus (Nitai and Advaita)." Of course, great acaryas or eternal associates of the Lord are sometimes called prabhu, but this title has never been used for ordinary devotees.

 

22) That Gopinatha stands for prayojana, Govindaji for abhidheya and Madanamohana for sambandha is a speculation of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. There is no difference between the three.

 

From Bhajana Kutir Website....

 

jijaji

;^)

 

 

[gtam 0]

Hi,

This was such a wonderful presentation of the interpretations of Srimad Bhagavatam.It answered several questions pondering my mind.The smaranam being higher than maranam was a very nice aspect of Bhakti.

The Karma being beginingless,the assurance that devotees never fall down,the amorous pastimes of the Lord and Gopis are very fulfilling to hear.

I would love to be blessed and always remember the Lord through such enlightening

postings.

 

Thanks

[amanpeter 0]

...and I like it, too! Maybe you could share it with the dharma-mela since they're into foot fetishists now and obviously in need of some help.

[Ananga 0]

It is probably just as well for certain factions to steer clear of the path of raga-marga, since they have exhibited such materialistic tendencies while dressing themselves up as sadhus, with their accumulation of vast fortunes and spending their time increasing their political power when they should be spending it doing bhajan.

[jijaji 0]

quote:

 

It is probably just as well for certain factions to steer clear of the path of raga-marga, since they have exhibited such materialistic tendencies while dressing themselves up as sadhus, with their accumulation of vast fortunes and spending their time increasing their political power when they should be spending it doing bhajan.

 

They just want to defend their mission as being the be-all of Gaudiya Vaishnavism, which clearly it is not!

They are more like Jehovas Witnesses..

There are some really uneducated people amongst them who can't stand when you point out how scammed and uninformed they are about the religion they think they have a monopoly on!

 

;^)

jijaji

[Guest guest]

>> 18) The origin of the jiva is not the spiritual, but the material world:(and thereafter)

There are four types of jivas: 4. nitya-parsadas - those eternally free from contact with ignorance. They never become conditioned, and are also called nitya-siddhas or nitya-muktas."

 

So, following your reasoning nitya-siddhas also have appeared in the material world, and therefore they are not spiritual.

 

Where you did you find such a large amount of non-sense, into a primer meant for babajis?

 

Radharaman caran dasa Babaji use to chant harinama to stop a epidemic of cholera. To chant harinama while waiting for a material result is to be considered namaparadha. To instruct people to chant namaparadha is also namaparadha. His followers would also preach for money if they could. Just visit Haridas Tahkura samadhi and check by yourself what kind of bhajana they are doing.

 

Do you want us to comment some babajis hagiographies made by an old turtle?

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[Dasha 0]

Dear jijaji,

 

This is a great work that as been done, and it gives good explanations on some philosophical questions about Krsna consciousness.

 

I just have a hard time to understand what you mean exactly when you speak about preaching.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Preaching is not a greater service to Krsna than contemplation. The often (mis-)quoted verse ya idam paramam guhyam madbhaktesvabhidhasyati (Gita, 18.68) contains the words madbhaktesu, proving that this verse describes Krsna-katha amongst the devotees, not disturbing of the minds of the ignorant, which is condemned earlier in the Gita.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"God cannot be attained by preaching lectures, nor with the intelligence, nor by hearing a lot of scripture. He is attained only by him upon whom He confers His grace. To this person He will reveal His transcendental body."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

Where is the mercy of the spiritual master in all of that?

 

 

Chaitanya came to teache us to spread this sankirtana mouvement. This is preaching to every fallen soul out of compassion.

 

If Srila Prabhupada would not have done it, where would we be now?

 

The grace of God is to send is pure devotee to preache His glories. Even if he not the doer, he has the credit to have done the job.

 

Personnaly I preferred to meditate for myself rather than to go out to preache, but I admire those who are able to do it every day to save the fallen souls that we are.

 

I hope that I am wrong and this topic is not another criticicism against the work that have done Srila Prabhupada.

 

Your in Krsna consciousness,

 

Dasha

[amanpeter 0]

Re: Preaching and mercy. The most merciful distributor of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan Movement was undoubtably Sri Nityananda Prabhu. He never philosophized, but humbly BEGGED door-to-door that househoulders should PLEASE PLEASE take the Holy Names even once on their lips. As for the mercy of the spiritual master, we are told that a moment's association or the dust from his lotus feet is what's required. Materialists may see the `need` for some materialistic process leading to so many big powerful organizations that usually end up actually obscuring the simple wondrous process of distributing God's Divine Grace person-to-person. That transmission is done heart-to-heart automatically when one of the hearts is that of a wholly self-realized soul. There simply is no alternative nor will their ever be one. This is not some public relations exercise, after all. It's more like passing the fire, which in this case consists SOLELY of the Holy Names: HARE KRSNA HARE KRSNA, KRSNA KRSNA HARE HARE, HARE RAMA HARE RAMA, RAMA RAMA HARE HARE !!! Let's somehow or other try and keep that fire hot in our heart-of-hearts by His Divine Grace, then others may become ignited by our mere presence. That is not worth sacrificing to become a footsoldier in some grand institutional machine. First we realize, then we may be qualified to preach the pure philosophy. Not all pure devotees become gurus or acaryas and not all their followers become pure devotees, many may end up misrepresentatives rather than true representatives. Surrender of the heart alone will suffice and that is uniquely personal, only between you and your God. Don't let anyone or anything come between the two of you. Have faith in God and His Divine Grace alone, Krsna and Radha. Don't let fear, awe or so-called reverence stand in the way of that natural simple sweet intimacy your heart is seeking. Cry for your eternal beloved always and don't allow yourself to become confused or bought off by anyone else when they say that you can't trust your own heart and must follow them instead. Cling to the Holy Names as your very life and soul. Persist and very soon all will become clear. HARIBOL!

[jijaji 0]

plese keep in mind the work posted is not mine but from the bhajana kutir website.

 

namaskar

 

 

jijaji

;^)>

[Guest guest]

"Srila Rupa Gosvami, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura wrote so many great literatures. However, if Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada had not published them, it may be that they would have been simply eaten by worms and termites. Srila Prabhupada had 2 boxes: a charity box and a donation box. A charity box gives, and a donation box takes. So Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada took the donations of the previous acaryas' conceptions, and gave them in charity to the world."

 

 

[Dasha 0]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Surrender of the heart alone will suffice and that is uniquely personal, only between you and your God. Don't let anyone or anything come between the two of you. Have faith in God and His Divine Grace alone, Krsna and Radha. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

So if I understand you well we do not need to take a spiritual master to understand the way back home, back to Godhead.

 

So please can you explain me why did Sri Krsna and Sri Chaitanya who are God Himself, took a spiritual master when they manifest on earth to show us the "dharma" of the age?

 

If you think that you are pure enough to understand the inner instructions of Paramatma in your heart, this is well, but for the commun of the mortal (of whom I am a part), we need the help of the spiritual master to decrypt them.

 

When you are in a labyrinth you may try of your own to get out of it, or else you may ask the help of some one who knows the way. Of course nobody will bother you if you want to do it by yourself, or you may ask to God to show you the way, He will surely do it since He is in your heart, you just have to chant His Holy Names. It may also take a few years, not to say a few lifes.

 

It is all hope to you, but for me the choise is already done.

 

Haribol

[amanpeter 0]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Dasha

posted 05-01-2001 01:59 PM PT (US)

 

 

quote:

 

Surrender of the heart alone will suffice and that is uniquely personal, only between you and your

God. Don't let anyone or anything come between the two of you. Have faith in God and His Divine

Grace alone, Krsna and Radha.

 

 

So if I understand you well we do not need to take a spiritual master to understand the way back home, back to

Godhead.

 

So please can you explain me why did Sri Krsna and Sri Chaitanya who are God Himself, took a spiritual master

when they manifest on earth to show us the "dharma" of the age?

 

If you think that you are pure enough to understand the inner instructions of Paramatma in your heart, this is

well, but for the commun of the mortal (of whom I am a part), we need the help of the spiritual master to

decrypt them.

 

When you are in a labyrinth you may try of your own to get out of it, or else you may ask the help of some one

who knows the way. Of course nobody will bother you if you want to do it by yourself, or you may ask to God to

show you the way, He will surely do it since He is in your heart, you just have to chant His Holy Names. It may

also take a few years, not to say a few lifes.

 

It is all hope to you, but for me the choise is already done.

 

Haribol<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

 

It'a matter of faith, prabhu. Raganuga (what this thread is about) differs greatly from Vaidhi in it's interpretation of scripture and understanding of scripture. His Divine Grace remains an absolute necessity in all circumstances. Vaidhi is more of a technical or mechanical approach while Raganuga is more personal. Guru is One and if you truly come to see, that one will be visible in everyone. That vision is only in those who see themselves as the least and attempt to offer service/respects to all. Jijaji meant no disrespect, nor do I. You simply cannot understand his perspective Such misunderstanding often leads to conflict, which is not necessary and only of negative value. In vaidhi some discrimination is necessary, but a unified vision remains our common goal. My post was motivated only from compassion. I'm sorry if you understood otherwise. HARIBOL!

[amanpeter 0]

CORRECTION: Sorry, meant to say understanding of GURU, not scripture again.

[Guest guest]

>> Raganuga (what this thread is about) differs greatly from Vaidhi in it's interpretation of scripture and understanding of scripture. His Divine Grace remains an absolute necessity in all circumstances. Vaidhi is more of a technical or mechanical approach while Raganuga is more personal. Guru is One and if you truly

come to see, that one will be visible in everyone.

 

In the dialog between Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Raya Ramananda (Ramananda-sanvada), it is stated that madhurya-rasa is the topmost position in prema-rasa. This madhurya-rasa is only attained by raganuga-bhakti. Not by vaidhi-bhakti.

 

But one should not consider that this madhurya-rasa is something easy to attain, and that one may avoid all others regular praticies of vaidhi-bhakti-marga, rejecting the instructions of our guru-varga, considering them as too much elementary, ritualistics, or in santa-rasa, as some use to say.

 

In his "Sri Bindu-vikasini-vrtti", a commentary on Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakua states:

 

"Bhakti which involves the practice of the angas of bhakti such as sravana and kirtna carried out by sadhakas with intense longing (lobha) to obtain the service of their innermost desired object, Vrajarajanandana Sri Krsna, is called raganuga-bhakti.

 

"Raganuga-bhakti is performed in two ways: with the sadhaka-rupa and with the siddha-rupa.

 

"Some may raises the objection that word vraja-loka refers only to Sri Radha, Lalita and others gopis, then with the sadhaka-deha (external body) one should perform only bodily services that follow the footsteps of gopis.

 

"If this indeed were the case, then the followers of those eternal associates would not find it is necessary to carry out the angas of bhakti such as taking shelter of a spiritual master (sri guru padasraya), observance of ekadasi, worship salagrama, worship of tulasi, and so on, since it is not mentioned anywhere that Srimati Radhika and Lalita ever performed such activities.

 

"However, this erroneous conclusion (apasiddhanta) held by skeptics who have taken shelter of modern adverse opinions is also refuted by the word vraja-loka.

 

"In his commentary to this sloka (Brs 1.2.295), Srila Jiva Goswami has explained the same thing, namely, that the word vraja-loka refers to the dearmost associates of Sri Krsna and their followers such as Sri Rupa Goswami and others."

 

In his "Sri Bindu-vikasin-vrtti," Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Goswami Maharaja, states:

 

"Since it is necessary to follow the gaura-parikaras (to raganuga-sadhana), it is certainly imperative that one observe the angas of bhakti such as guru-padaeraya, ekadasi-vrata, tulasi-seva, sri salagrama-seva and so on, which were practiced by the foremost assocaites such as Srila Rupa Goswami and others. There is no doubt about this.

 

"The fundamental conclusion is tha only upon obtaining the eligibility (genuine lobha) can the sadhaka undertake the discipline (sadhana) of raganuga-bhakti. By following the method of sadhana while still plagued with anarthas and without the appearance of genuine lobha (greed), the opposite effect will be produced.

 

"When genuine greed for vraja-bhajana arises, one should first of all take shelter of a dear devotee of Sri Gaurasundara who is identical in every aspect to Sri Vrajendranandana. The beloved devotees of Sri Gaura will instruct us on the path of raganuga-sadhana in accordance with our eligibility.

 

"Otherwise, if one falls into bad association and by ill advise imitates the bhajana practices of those on the highest level of eligibility (uttama-adhikaris), then under the guise of adopting one's siddha-deha one will obtain only a harmful effect.

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[Guest guest]

Who is a raganuga-bhakta?

 

Jiva's svarupa is ragatmika. Ragatmika means a natural, eternal, spontaneous and a very deep desire to love and serve Bhagavan Sri Krsna. That's the nature of the eternal residents of Vraja.

 

Sadhakas, or practitioners of bhakti, are to be considered ksayonmukha-jivas, jivas who have their relationship with the material world diminishing. They are tending to liberation. This liberation presents two stages; svarupa-siddhi and vastu-siddhi. A jiva who is in the ksayonmukha stage following the awake of his ragatmika nature is know as raganuga, who follows the way of raga.

 

But most of jivas are not in the path of bhakti. As long as a jiva is bounded by maya, his mind and intelligence remains spontaneously attached to mundane world. His ragatmika natural disposition is perverted, as raga (attachment) is transferred to maya. Due his false acquired nature, this baddha-jiva mistakenly considers attachment for mundane things to be his natural attachment and he never can understand the meaning of pure spiritual attachment.

 

In material existence a baddha-jiva is always engaged in check his relationships with his body and his acquisitions, with society and social ideas and with mundane morality and ethics. In this way he suffer degradation.

 

It is only sadhu-sanga that may cause a transformation in that situation.

 

Jivas bounded by maya are wholly unacquainted even with the raganuga nature, to say nothing of his ragatmika nature. Raganuga nature, a preliminary condition for his ragatmika nature is very difficult an rare to be attained. This will be founded only with high class of sadhu-sanga.

 

How people in general may have the association with sadhus? Bhakti has no other cause than bhakti herself, and only the heart of a sadhu is a source of bhakti fit to irrigate a dry heart. Without sadhu-sanga bhakti is never attained. So, how to find this sadhu sanga?

 

At first a jiva who is bewildered by maya is compelled to adopt the path of karma. Them he must adopt karma-yoga, followed by jñana-yoga and finally bhakti-yoga. However, if he is not shown that these are but different steps on one staircase, the conditioned jiva cannot ascend to bhakti, what to say to raganuga-bhakti.

 

To create an easy way to people in general find this sadhu-sanga, acaryas use to prescribe vidhi-marga, the path of rules and regulations. Thus, by Sri Hari direct mercy sastras are manifested, to illuminate all injunction and rules to be followed by the populace.

 

So, the aim of vaidhi-marga is only to create an access to attain raganuga platform by a sadhu-sanga fit for it. It is a gradual process and it will take several lifetimes.

 

No one should have the misconception that vaidhi-bhakti is the cause of raganuga-bhakti. Our acaryas state that vaidhi-bhakti only helps one to attain the association that causes lobhamayi-sraddha. This kind of sraddha is quite different than visvasamayi-sraddha, the faith that causes one to follow vaidhi-bhakti.

 

Srila Rupa Goswami has told on his raghanuga-bhakti 3 slokas (BRS) that the limbs of vaidhi and raghanuga-bhakti are the same, only mood is different. Visvasamayi sraddha is the platform for lobhamayi sraddha. What our acaryas are stating is perfectly correct: without performing vaidhi bhakti, no one can attain raghanuga bhakti.

 

During initiation, the sadhaka cannot understand what is vaidhi- bhaktilata bija and what is raghanuga-bhaktilata bija. A bona fide spiritual master always gives his disciple the seed for raghanuga bhakti. In Mahaprabhu's genuine line actually there is no seed for vaidhi-bhakti. When one practices sadhana and bhajana under the guidance of guru and vaisnavas, gradually one can understand the difference between vidhi-marga and raghanuga-marga.

Any bona fide spiritual master only wants to give his disciple the opportunity to enter raganuga-bhakti. He wants that his disciple will attain the same thing which he himself has within his heart.

 

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[Guest guest]

Raganuga-bhakti manifests itself upon the appeareance of ruci

In His "Anuvrtti" commentary on Sri Upadesamrta verse 8, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura states:

 

"When a devote following the path of vaidhi-bhakti abandons his many varieties if material desires and performs bhajana in accordance with the instructions of sastra, sad-guru and Vaisnavas, ruci, or taste, arises in his bhajana. Upon the appeareance of this ruci, he abandons the path of vaidhi-bhakti and enters in the path of raganuga-bhakti.

 

ragatmika-bhakti - 'mukhya1 vraja-vasi-jane

tira anugata bhaktira 'raganuga' - name

(C.c Madhya, 22.149)

 

"That devotion whose very essence is constituted of eternal spontaneous attachment (raga) is known as ragatmika-bhakti. That devotion is pre-eminent amongst all forms of bhakti and is principally manifest in the residents of Vraja. Devotion which follows in the wake of this ragatmika-bhakti is known as raganuga-bhakti."

 

And the satra also says:

 

iste svarasika ragah / paamavistata bhavet

tanmayi ya bhaved bhaktih / satra ragatmikodita

(Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.2.272)

 

"An unquenchable loving thirst (premamayi-trsna) for the object on one's affection (Sri Krsna) which gives rise to spontaneous and intense absortion (svarasiki param-avistara) in that object is called raga. Such raga-mayi-bhakti, or the performance of service such as stringing garlands with intense raga, is called ragatmika-bhakti."

 

ragamayi-bhaktira haya 'ragatmika' nama

taha suni'lubdha haya kona bhagyavan

(C.c. Madhya 22.152)

 

"Bhakti which consists of raga is called ragatmika. If, upon hearing of this, a devotee becomes intensely anxious to obtain such devotion, he is considered to be most fortunate."

 

bahya, antara - ihara dui ra' sadhana / 'bahya' sadhaka-dehe kare sravana-kirtana

'mane' nija-siddha-dehe kare kariya bhavana / ratri-dine kare vraje krsnera sevana

(C.c. Madhya 22.156-7)

 

"The sadhana of raganuga-bhakti os of two types: external (bahya) and internal (antara). Externally one performs hearing and chanting in the sadhaka-deha, the outer feature of a practitioner of bhakti. Internally, while contemplating one's own perfect spiritual form, one renders service to Sri Krsna in Vraja day and night."

 

So, in Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada's line there is raganuga-bhakti and many of his followers are very serious in that path. But in our line, the siddha-deha, or the second item that is necessary to the practice of raganuga-sadhana is only given when one's has developed the real lobha (paramarthika) to enter in that path, at least after the stage of anartha-nvrtti, when ruci has manifested to the sadhaka. Our acaryas do not instruct us in siddha-pranali before nama-prabhu Himself manifest His mercy upon the sadhaka. We do not consider siddha-pranali as a tantric initiation, depending on external formalities.

 

There are countless of Srila Prabhupada's disciples, grandisciples and grand-grandisciples following raganuga-marga. To say that there is not raganuga-bhakti and instructions for all the four sthay-bhavas in our Sarasvata-parivara is only envious prajalpa.

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[Guest guest]

Glossary:

 

bhajana - process or practice of suddha-bhakti that is to be followed by raganuga-bhaktas. It consists basically in harina-nama's sravana and kirtana while meditating (samarana) in astakaliya-lila, the pastimes of Sri Radha and Krsna during the 8 parts of the day. This method can only be imparted by Sri Guru (bhajana-guru).

 

lobha - genuine faith for raganuga-bhakti. Faith (sraddha is of 3 different kinds):

1. laukika, or mundane, that cannot cause any transcendental realization.

2. Visvasamay, transcendental or paramarthika it is the cause of vaidhi-bhakti.

3. Lobhamay, also transcendental or paramarthika it is the cause of raganuga-bhakti.

(acttulay bhakti has no cause, therefore sraddha is consider as a manifestation of bhakti)

 

None of these 3 different kinds of sraddha may be transformed into the others. It is not that laukika-sraddha is the cause of visvasamay-sraddha and that visvasamay-sraddha is the cause of lobhamay-sraddha.

 

Visvasamay-sraddha may be considered as a basis or support to lobhamay-sraddha. Without this preliminary sraddha no lobamay-sraddha will appear. We may compare both kind of sraddha to the tree and to the orchid. In some rainy forests in Brazil there are some very nice orchids, very beautiful flours. The orchid plant is an epiphyte who lives over some trees that they use as support. They are not parasites, neither they have anything to do with the tree which is their support. But they cannot appear without the support. Similarly, the tree may be compared to visvasamay-sraddha, and the orchid is to be compared to lobhamay-sraddha.

 

 

[amanpeter 0]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Therefore, are these precocious siddha-dehas real siddha-dehas, or only a mere abhasa of them? What is the real

gain when one gets such kind of siddha-deha?

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

You know what, Satyaraj das prabhu? I don't know because I don't care! Personal gain, whether spiritual or material, is NOT my motivation. Sri Radha (His Divine Grace AND the personification of His internal potency which is the source of ALL other potencies) can use me as She likes, or not, according to Her own sweet will. Your endless highly technical tirades tire me with terminology. Your cautions confuse me, but cannot prevent me from crying out continuously to my Swamini Kishori in helpless hopelessness. What do I know of mechanical sadhana? My connection is PERSONAL NOT PROCESS! What's more, SHE holds on to ME, I don't hold on to HER! You can tell me my life is wasting away and that I should do this or avoid that, but nothing you say will affect me in the least because it's not MY life and never was. I BELONG TO RADHIKA! If She wants to reject me as totally useless and unsalvageable, so be it. My ONLY faith remains in HER ALONE! Quite frankly, I am unable to understand why others don't feel the same, considering Her divine qualities and personality. NO ONE CAN COMPARE WITH HER! Whoever Krsna may be and whatever He may have and may be capable of is ONLY DUE TO HER! As for going through so many lifetimes in order to achieve Krsna prema so as to live happily ever after in Goloka, you can keep your lengthy maps and instructions to yourself. I'm not going anywhere and whatever needs to be achieved SHE will arrange WHEN REQUIRED AS NEEDED FOR HER PURPOSES, NOT MINE. Sure, I'm just a crazy fool, prabhu, but I'm HER fool! That's all that matters anymore to me. So don't confuse me with devotees, vaishnavas, babajis or whatever. I'm nothing going nowhere, but I do know who I belong to and have forsaken everyone and everything for, though I can't even take credit for that. I hear it's called `special mercy`, so what can I do? If this worthless wretch can be of some service, fine. If not, then I guess it's back for more recycling. Nobody and nothing defeats Radharani. She'll get me right in the end. That is my simple faith, prabhu. Please don't mess with it. JAI JAI SRI RADHE JAI!!!

[jijaji 0]

Satya quotes Srila Kuñja Bihari dasa Babaji Maharaja from Radha-kunda..

 

He is the Guru of Ananta Dasa Babaji of Radha Kunda.

 

Sorry they do not accept Bhaktisiddhantas speculations on siddha-pranali or his made-up Brahma-Gaudiya line as being authentic. Nor do they accept this false introduction of Sannyass in Gaudiya Vaishnavism which Sri Chaitanya clearly forbade in the Kali-Yug!

 

Sorry Satya...not everyone supports your JehovahsWitness version of Sri Chaitanyas religion with dandas and saffron and shaved heads!

 

jijaji

;^)>

[jijaji 0]

Satya says jijaji is of the opinion that siddha-pranali should be given to beginners. For one ..I never EVER have said that! Secondly most do NOT give Siddha-Pranali so easy, Satya makes it out like all the Babajis give it out to anyone and everyone..NOT TRUE..FALSE GAUDIYA MATH PROPOGANDA!

 

The MOST important thing really that one receives from the Guru at the time of Diksha is TRUE GURU-PARAMPARA!

After the time of Sriman Mahaprabhu four lines (parivars) coming from Nityananda/Jahnava Devi, Advaita, Sriman Gadadhara and Gopal Bhatta became established as the recognized parivars that one should connect with when taking diksha in Sri Chaitanyas Sampradaya. At the time of Diksha into any authentic parivar one is given GURU-PRANALI that shows the line going back to one of these associates of Mahaprabhu in a unbroken manner.

 

Since the time of Sri Chaitanya the Sampradaya has continued in this way, for ones diksha to be considered authentic one would have to have guru-pranali from one of the recognized four parivars. And this has been the system in place right up to the time of Bhaktisiddhanta, who took it upon himself to change everything! Funny thing is most Gaudiya Vaishnavas went right along with what they had done for hundreds of years ..Raganuga Bhajana without saffron Robes and all the missionary Jehovas Witness..ONLY WE CAN SAVE YOU!

 

Sannyass IN Kali-Yug is forbidden by Sri Chaitanya Himself.

Is there an authority in His Sampradaya more important than Him?

 

;^)

jijaji

[jijaji 0]

satya says;

 

So, in Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada's line there is raganuga-bhakti and many of his followers are very serious in that path.

 

> Not as much as you seem to think! Bhaktisiddhanta introduced a new twist on many things, how one is to practice Raganuga is one.

 

But in our line, the siddha-deha, or the second item that is necessary to the practice of raganuga-sadhana is only given when one's has developed the real lobha (paramarthika) to enter in that path, at least after the stage of anartha-nvrtti, when ruci has manifested to the sadhaka.

 

> Well maybe in YOUR line perhaps..but that is simply NOT the case in ALL the other of Gaudiya Vaishnav Sampradayas in Braja & Navadvipa and surrounding areas.

Gaudiya Math /Iskcon like to make it out that ALL other Gaudiya Vaishnav parivars that have been around 100's of years before themselves should adhere to whatever THEY decide is proper in siddhanta & practice.

No other Gaudiya Vaishnav communities or sampradayas recognize Gaudiya Math and it's branches as being the siddhanta police for the religion of Sri Chaitanya.

They and they ONLY have put themselves in the position of trying to be the be-all and end-all of Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

Many devotees of Sri Chaitanya who belong to other recognized parivars within Sri Chaitanya Sampradaya simply do not recognize Bhaktisiddhanta as ever having taken proper diksha (and there are many reasons for that belief)as his version of Gaudiya Vaishnavism is so radically different from what and how the religion was practiced for over 400 yeras after the passing of Sri Chaitanya himself.

 

 

Our acaryas do not instruct us in siddha-pranali before nama-prabhu Himself manifest His mercy upon the sadhaka. We do not consider siddha-pranali as a tantric initiation, depending on external formalities.

 

> That is nice ...most other Gaudiya Vaishnavas do not and never did!

 

There are countless of Srila Prabhupada's disciples, grandisciples and grand-grandisciples following raganuga-marga. To say that there is not raganuga-bhakti and instructions for all the four sthay-bhavas in our Sarasvata-parivara is only envious prajalpa.

 

>> I say YOUR the one who is ENVIOUS with all your constant rantings and fanatical behaviour on this forum...constantly looking for a fight from anyone who disagrees with you and your Jehovas Witness version of a onetime peaceful religion turned bible thumper!

 

jijaji

;^)

 

[Guest guest]

 

>> That is nice ...most other Gaudiya Vaishnavas do not and never did!

 

Regarding siddha-pranali initiations, Jijaji has done this commentary, arguing that all other paribars use to give siddha-pranali to beginners.

 

So, let us see what Srila Kuñja Bihari dasa Babaji Maharaja from Radha-kunda says about these precocious siddha-pranalis (quote; Mañjari-svarupa-nirupana):

 

"The system of spiritual practices followed by the Gauòiya Vaisnava school call for the practitioner to receive siddha-pranali from his spiritual master. From this siddha-pranali, the disciple becomes aware of the nature of his spiritual body. Dhyana-candra Gosvamin writes in his Paddhati that the siddha-pranali has eleven aspects (ekadasa-bhava). These consist of the devotee's (mañjari's) (1) name, (2) her bodily colour, (3) dress, (4) age, (5) relation, (6) the particular group to which she belongs, (7) orders, (8) service, (9) highest attainment, (10) situation as a protected handmaid, and finally (11) residence.

"No one should think that this is nothing more than imagination; the spiritual body is eternal and true. The spiritual master knows his disciple's transcendental identification through the power of his meditation and then reveals it to him as the form in which he will be accepted by the Lord. When the disciple meditates on the transcendental activities of the Lord through a sense of identification with that spiritual body, mentally serving the Holy Couple in that body, then gradually, his absorption in identification with the material body is correspondingly reduced.

"Until the disciple comes to the point of prema, he does not actually attain this siddha-deha, but has to take repeated births in the material world. Visvanatha Cakravartin explains in his commentary on the Ujjvala-nilamani, "Those persons who are practicing raganuga-bhakti at the present time are on various stages of advancement such as nistha, ruci, asakti, etc. If they should at any future lifetime attain to pure love (prema) then they will become fully qualified to serve the Lord. It is only then that they will receive a body appropriate for rendering such service and will become actual associates of the Lord."

"The process for achievement is as follows according to Visvanatha: "Such a practitioner of raganuga bhakti, when he finally attains prema due to his dedicated performance of sadhana and is completely absorbed in the anxiety of desire, even though he has not attained the higher stages of love of God, such as sneha, etc. (which are actually impossibe to attain in a material body), then the Lord himself appears along with his eternal associates and gives a direct vision of himself as well as the opportunity to engage in direct service-even if only once in a dream. Then he gives a spiritual body (in this case, the body of a gopi) just in the way one was given to Narada Muni at the time of his death. After that, when the Lord makes his appearance in some material universe, his internal potency, Yogamaya, causes that very body to be born in the womb of some gopi in the Vrndavana of that world. Then in that body, the higher stages of prema are realizable by the devotee."

Therefore, are these precocious siddha-dehas real siddha-dehas, or only a mere abhasa of them? What is the real gain when one gets such kind of siddha-deha?

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[Guest guest]

Sannyasa & Kali-yuga

 

Some objections made by the opposite camp about Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada's sannyasa:

 

1) It is forbidden to accept sannyasa in Kali-yuga:

 

asvamedham gavalambham sannyasam palpaitrkam

devarena sutotpati kalau pañca vivarjyayet

 

"Five practices are forbidden in Kali-yuga: horse sacrifices, cow sacrificies, accepting sannyasa, offering oblations of flesh to one's ancestors and conceiving child in the womb of one's elder brother's wife." (Sri Brahmavaivarta Purana, Krsna-janma-khanda 185.180)

 

Refutation:

 

Sannyasa is a vedic custom that is applicable at all times. To illustrate this we are presenting several examples from sruti, smrti and purana.

 

The verdict of sruti is as follows:

 

sa hovaca yajñavalkkyah / brahmacaryam smapta grhi bhavet / grhi bhutva vani bhavet / vani bhutva pravrajet / yadi vetaratha brahmacaryadeva preavrajed grhad va vanad va / atha punaravrati va vrati va snatako va'snatako va utsannagniranagniko va yadahareva virajet tadahareva pravrajet

 

Variation of this mantra, with only one or two words different, can be found in:1) Javalopanisad, (4.1), 2) Yajñavalkyopanisad (sankhya 1), 3) Paramahamsa Parivrajakopanisad (sankhya 2).

 

The translation is:

"The saintly king Janaka Maharaja inquired from the great sage Yajñavalkhya, 'O Bhagavan! Please explain to me the qualifications end regulations governing the acceptance of sannyasa.' Yajñavalkhya replied, 'First of all, strictly obesrving the vow of brahmacarya, one should study the Vedas in the home of one's guru. Then, after appropriately observing the occupationla duties of grhastha-asrama, one should accept vanaprastha. Finally, after vanapratha, one should accept sannyasa. Before entering the grhastha-asrama, if one developes a powerful sense of detachment from material life while still in the stage of brahmacarya, then one should accept sannyas directly from the brahmacarya-asrama. Otherwise, as soon as one's vairagya is very strong, it is quite appropriate to accept sannyasa from the stages of grhastha or vanaprastha. In other words, the principle is that one may accept sannyasa from the position of any asrama upon developing genuine detachment. Wheter one's study of the six limbs of the Vedas is complete or not; having completed one's study of the Vedas, wheter one has taken bath as prescribed by Vedas or not; having ignited the sacrificial fire, whther one has duly dismissed the presiding deity of the sacrificial fire or not; wheter one is married or a widowed; in any condition of life, one can accept sannyasa when intense vairaya manifests in one's character."

 

A furhter explanation of sannyasa is also clearly found in Javalopanisad, from the sukla section of Yajurveda:

 

atha parivrad vivarnavasa mundo'parigrahaha suciradrohi bhaiksano brahmabhuyaya bhavatiti / yadsyaturah syanmansa vaca va sannyaset (15)

 

"Those who accept parivrajya (sannyasa) should wear cloth which has been coloured saffron by geru (red stone). They should have their hair shaved and completely renounce the association of their wifes, sons and other relatives. Immediately after that they should purify themselves externally and internally by fully executing sadhana. Giving up all sense of hostility towards others, they should perform the upasana of brahma in a pure and solitary place. Distressed persons should accept sannyasa only by words and mind."

 

esa pantha brahmana hanuvitastenaivaiti sannyasi brahma vidityevamevaisa bhagavanniti vai yajnavalkyah (16)

 

"The origin of the custom of sannyasa is Lord Brahma, the grandfather of all worlds. The sannyasis who take shelter of this path of renunciation attain the sac-cid-ananda brahma and become competent to know everything. Thus the path of sannyasa is not imaginary; it is real. Having heard this instruction from Yajñavalkya, Atri Rsi accepted it by addressing him, 'O Bhagavan Yajñavalkya!'

 

tridandam kamandalau sakyam jalapavitram patram sikha yajnopavitanca ityetat sarva bhusvahetyapsu parityajyatmanam-anvicchet (18)

 

"After this, on attaining the stage of paramahamsa,, the sings of sannyasa such as tridanda, sikha, vasan, water potência, kantha, kaupin (lower cloth) and uttariya are also discarded.

 

And also Visnusmrti (4 . 2,10,12,18) states:

 

"One who is detached frm all types of worldly desires should accept sannyasa. After accepting sannyasa, he should travel alone and should maintain his life by whatever is available in the way of alms without even begging. He should carry ekadanda (single staff) or tridanda (triple staff). The bahudaka tridandi-sannyasi should carry a light-coloured saffron cloth. Futhermore he should always meditate on Bhagavan within his heart."

 

It has been stated in the Mahanirvana Tantra that even in Kali-yuga the member of all four varnas and also common people outside the social castes (outside varnasrama) have the right to accept sannyasa;

 

"O Devi! In Kali-yuga the avadhuta-asrama is called sannyasa. Now hear from me about the regulations governing this asrama. One who is expert in the transcendental science of bhagavat-tattva, who is detached from all kinds of fruitive activities and in whom brahma-jñana hasawakened, should accpet the renounced order of life, sannyasa. Five categories of people, namely brahmanas, ksatriyas, vaisyas, sudras and common people from outside the social orders, can be qualified in the matter of undergoing this sannyasa-samskara. Moreover, even when the influence of Kali is powerful, vipras and also members of the other social orders have the right to accept sannyasa." (Mahanivarna Tantra ullasa 8)

 

There are countless quotes from all Vedic lore validating sannyasa in Kali-yuga and as we don't want to increase the size of that post with several other quotes, we will just quote Srimad Bhagavatam, the most authoritative Purana:

 

"The grhastha-asrama has come from my thighs, the brahmacarya-asrama from my heart and the vanaprastha-asrama from my chest. However, sannyasa is situated upon my head." (S.B. 11.17.14)

 

"The Avanti-bhiksu said, 'Great risis and munis of yore have taken shelter of this sannyasa-asrama in the form of paratmanistha (steadfast devotion to Bhagavan). Having taken shelter of this same asrama, I will also easily cross over the insurmountable ocean of ignorance by rendering service to the lotus feet of Sri Mukunda." (S.B. 11.23.57)

 

And in our line, Srila Gopala Bhatta Goswami, in his Samskara-dipika, a suplement to Sri Hari-bhakti-vilasa, clearly documented the tridanda-sannyasa samskara and the regulations in regard to wearing dor-kaupin and saffron cloth. Some opponents do not accept this book, with the allegation of its disappear, but actually an ancient manuscript of this text is preserved in the royal library in Jaipur. This sastra has been published by Srila Bhaktivinoda Tahkura and it is also mentioned in the Sri Gaudiya Vaisnava Abhidhana.

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[Guest guest]

 

>> Sannyass IN Kali-Yug is forbidden by Sri Chaitanya Himself. Is there an authority in His Sampradaya more important than Him?

 

This is another misconception that nowadays some people are employing to criticize Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati's sannyasa.

 

They argue that according Sri Caitanya Bhagavata 3.3.20, after delivering Sri Sarvabahuma Bhattacarya, Sriman Mahaprabhu, alluding to Himself through the words of Sri Sarvabhauma, expounded the conclusion that sannyasa is unnecessary, detrimental and above all opposed to bhakti-dharma.

 

But these people also deliberately hidden the incident that takes place prior the deliverance of Sri Sarvabhauma, that is mentioned in Sri Caitanya Bhagavata as follows:

 

"Being quite ignorant of bhakti and bhakti-tattva, Sri Sarvabhauma considered Sriman Mahaprabhu, who is directly Vrajendanandana Sri Krsna, adorned with the sentiment and complexion of Sri Radha, to be an ordinary sankarite sannyasi of tender years. With this idea in mind, he began to behave as if he were imparting instructions to an ignorant jiva. He said to Sri Caitanya: 'You are the recipient of Krsna's great mercy. You also seem to be highly intelligent. So why have you accepted sannyasa? Just consider for a moment, what is the value of sannyasa? As soon as he carries a danda, the jiva thinks of himself as a great jñani and becomes bound up in the ropes of false ego. He can never politely join his palms and speak to anyone with grat humility. The Vedas decree that one should accept the foot dust of one's gurujana. Yet the sannyasi is not even afraid of committing aparadha on seeing such gurujana offering their obeisances to him...

Bhagavan is also present within the hearts of the jivas in the form of antaryami. Understanding this, one should offer dandavats pranamam to all jivas, including dogs, dog-eaters, cows and asses. However, a sannyasi rejects his sacred thread and sikha, gives up bhagavat-bhajana, calls himself Narayana and accepts obeisances even from personalities who are worthy of worship"(Sri Caitanya Bhagavata Adi, 3.18-22)

 

Sriman Mahaprabhu very humbly replied: "Do not consider Me to be a sannyasi. I have abandoned My home and given up My sikha and sacred thread for the sake of dedicating Myself exclusively to krsna-bhajana. Understanding Me to be afflicted by separation from Krsna, mercifully bless Me so that I may meet My beloved Krsna."

 

In Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 3.7-9), Sri Caitanya states:

 

"The statement of the tridandi bhiksuka is true and benefical because he has made a determined vow to engage in the service of the lotus feet of Sri Mukunda. The purport of sannyasa vesa is that by being fixed in the service of Sri Krsna, who is the supreme soul and the cause of all causes, one gives up all material misidentification. When such nistha arises, one can attain the service to Bhagavan Sri Mukunda and very easily cross over the ocean of birth and death. Having accepted sannyasa, now I will go to Vrindavana and. while remaining in a solitary place, far from the tumult of the mundane world, I will serve the lotus feet of Sri Krsna."

 

In all the scriptures such as Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Sri Caitanya-bhagavata and Sri Caitanya-candramrta, one will find a mood of veneration towards the sannyasa asrama.

 

One should also have sufficient intelligence to make distinction among karma-sannyasa, jñana-sannyasa and vaisnava-sannyasa. Karma-sannyasa is the target aimed by the puranic injunction that forbids sannyasa, and not the others.

 

In "Samskara Dipika", by Sri Gopala Bhatta Goswami, it is clearly explained that the sannyasa-mantra is the mantra for attaining gopi-bhava. This sastra also clearly states that in this type of sannyasa the sikha and the sacred thread are not discarded, and that sannyasa-vesa is only accepted externally for the purpose of engaging in one-pointed bhajana to the lotus feet of Sri Radha-Govinda. While internally following the moods of the gopis of Vraja, one externally remains under the anugatya of the associates of Sri Gauranga. In this book Sri Gopala Bhatta Goswami had clearly exposed Sriman Mahaprabhus's opinion regarding sannyasa-vesa.

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Sannyass IN Kali-Yug is forbidden by Sri Chaitanya Himself. Is there an authority in His Sampradaya more important than Him?"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

...and yet Sri Chaitanya Himself took sannyasa.

 

The sannyasa that is forbidden in the scripture is karma-sannyasa (complete renunciation of activity by going to the forest alone).