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jijaji

Arjuna and Bhagavad gita

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Krishna himself in Gita says that becuase Arjuna is HIS close FRIEND he is giving this special knowledge. The type of intimate friendship Arjuna had to Sri Krishna is quite rare and supersedes any type of formal diksha. Arjuna is an ETERNAL ASSOCIATE of SRI KRISHNA.

Arjuna is ALREADY eternally situated in his jaiva dharma (souls' eternal function) so there is no need of such a formal rite of diksha between him and Sri Krishna which is there for us ordinary souls to help us attain to God-Realization.

 

jijaji

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It is said that Krsna came to this earth 5000 thousands years ago to reestablish the teaching of Bhagavad Gita because the disciplic succession have been broken, and He had to restore it.

 

How is it that Krsna gave this teaching to a ksatrya and not a brahmana? and I never read anywhere that Arjuna got any disciple. So how could he transmit it ?

 

Cheers

 

Dash

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jayasriradhey says,

 

"Yes,It is TOO BAD that the God Realized soul, Arjuna didnot become a FOUNDER Acarya of ANY CULT nor started a PARAMPARA of brainwashing 'Arjuniya Vaishnavism'!!!"

 

Often when I read things like this from you jayasriradhey.. I see you enraged with teeth clenched....not so blissed out!

You need to get in contact with the RAGE you have towards those who have you so twisted. As long as you carry this around you will NEVER be peaceful and the more you show your rage the more you revel how much effect they still have on you.

Not every post is meant to be turned into a rageful fit...

There are many divergent types on this forum, it's not like everyone here is a fanatical cultist. You know me from siddhanta-parampara battles from long ago jayasri..for you own peacefulness..lighten up!

please take no offence...!

 

;^)

jijaji

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Do you want my 'piece (peace) of mind'?

 

I asked you to take no offence...and you throw back at me that maybe I should lighten up and then threaten me with your "piece of Mind"

 

give me a break..come down to earth for a few minutes and yes work on disentangleing yourself from some of your anger....if you don't admit you have it you will never get rid of it..

 

;^)

 

jijaji

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It seems certain people are set on making sure no meaningful discussion can take place in these forums. Regardless of the topic or question being asked, they just post a tyrade of insults against institutions they don't like. Quite childish, and certainly not the sign of a rasika bhakta.

 

Let me bring back the topic to where it started:

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>How is it that Krsna gave this teaching to a ksatrya and not a brahmana? and I never read anywhere that Arjuna got any disciple. So how could he transmit it ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

The Bhagavad Gita was originally meant for the saintly kings (raja-rishis) so that they could guide the society properly in tune with dharma. This does not mean the Gita was not meant for others, it was of course a universal message. But in re-establishing dharma ('dharma samsthapanarthaya'), the head of society was the key. For it was his duty to make sure the dharma was followed. If he was properly situated in dharma, then his faithful dependents (the citizens) would also follow dharma.

 

Thus Lord Krishna states:

 

evam paramparam praptam

imam rajarshayo viduh

 

"Thus this transcendental knowledge was passed down in parampara, and the saintly kings (raja-rishis) understood it in this way."

 

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___________

How is it that Krsna gave this teaching to a ksatrya and not a brahmana? and I never read anywhere that Arjuna got any disciple. So how could he transmit it ?

___________

 

I do not think that the importance of the teaching is reduced just because it was given to a ksatrya and not a brahmana. Also, there was a very specific reason to give teachings to Arjuna. The reason being that he was overwhelmed with emotions and was not ready to fight. After giving various reasons as to why he did not want to fight, he asked Krsna to tell him what was right for him. This means that Arjuna's mind was quite attentive to listen to what Krsna was going to say.

 

Arjuna did not have any disciple. But definitely, Ved Vyasa must have known what teachings Krsna gave to Arjuna (when he could give divine eyes to Sanjaya to see the complete war, why could he himself not have seen it?). Ved Vyasa definitely had disciples.

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About the Brahmana-Kshatriya issue,

 

Krishna himself was a Kshatriya. Perhaps if only the Brahmana class was supposed to receive it, he would have incarnated as a Brahmana, or at the least taught it to a Brahmana. But the Gita itself says that he is accessible to all, irrrespective of their class. So one can say that it is a universal message and not restricted to Brahmins.

 

He also tells Arjuna to teach it to only those who are worthy of receiving it. Looks like Arjuna did not find anyone worthy enough to pass it on. :-) Of course, that still leaves the question of how the Gita got transmitted to Vyasa through disciplic succession, unanswered.

 

Cheers

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Disciplic succesion makes sense only as long as the teaching is handed down orally. That way, a Guru can ensure that he passes it on to someone who is worthy enough to receive it. The Manu-Smriti says that even in times of dire distress, a Guru should carry his knowledge to the grave, instead of passing it on to an unworthy person. But once a teaching gets scribed, it can be read by anyone. Today most people who read the Gita, never got Diksha from a Guru.

 

The Mahabharata is huge [80,000 verses], the largest single poem in the world. It is unlikely that Itihasa and Puranas were orally transmitted at any time, especially since they were meant for all classes of people.

 

Cheers

 

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Lord Krishna did not choose Yudhishtira for giving Gita because Yudhishtira was satvik man. Krishna did not choose Bheema for Bheema was having tamasic guna (enjoyed Eating). He chose Arjuna for Arjuna represented a typical man containing all the three gunas. Whole of Krishna Lilas show that He is beyond all the differences. He never gave importance to any sect of people. He gave importance only to simple love & devotion. He never differenciated men & women or educated & uneducated. Gita was given to all the human beings by Lord Krishna through Arjuna. Please understand the teachings of Gita & try to follow It.

HariBhol!

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This is an interesting thread. I don't understand the "mechanics" of it. Someone please explain step by step how the parampara continued. For example, what is the connection between Sanjaya and Vyasa? And please explain more on Arjuna.

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The following is an excerpt from Windows into the Infinite --- A Guide to the Hindu Scriptures by Barbara Powell. An interesting angle of vision regarding the Bhagavad-gita:

 

Initially one might expect Krsna to applaud Arjuna's decision. After all, by embracing non-violence he appears to have assumed a morally superior stance.But Krsna knows a deeper truth.He will surprise us.

"Coward!" he reprimands.'Such behaviour is unfitting to a man of your station.Get out there and fight!"

Is the Gita advocating violence? Of course not.In many other places in the text, Krsna will extol gentleness and nonviolence,even passivity.If there's one generalization we can make about the Gita,it's that it embraces diversity.No one occupation, standard of conduct or spiritual path is appropriate for everyone.Different people require different paths.Arjuna is a ksatriya, a soldier by profession,and it is his moral and spiritual imperatives to attend to the duties, the dharma,of that profession.Were Arjuna a priest, a spice merchant or a housewife,Krsna would have given him very different advice,for violence is never acceptable for these people.But the question of war and peace is not the issue here at all.The issue is action and inaction.If Krsna were talking to an exhausted mother with five screaming children all needing her attention at once,she might tell Him,"Krsna,I can't face it.There's no way I can be a mom today." His reply would be,"Yes you can.In fact,you must.Get in there and fight!" (Windows into the Infinite --- A Guide to the Hindu Scriptures, Chapter Five)

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As far as Lord Shree Krishna Bhagavan is concern He is compelty free to do anything as He likes.

No one is above Him or beyound Him or even equal to Him even Lord Balaram rest his hand on Krishna shoulder at times.

Because Arjuna is Krishnas friend and never enivious to Him is the reason explains why He is going to speak Bhagavat Gita to Him.

One who is non envious therefore is qualified to hear the message.

There as many Parumparas manifested by thoses hearing Bhagavat Gita Krishna is speaking to Arjuna but there are many witnesses first to every action there are 5 witnesses

the Sun .The Moon.The air,The darkness and the Supersoul then there is Sanjaya and Dhrtarastra Vyas is also hearing

and the demigods are also hearing they are not unable to hear and each are repeating in thier own parrumparas

In our Parumpara we are not hearing Bhagavat Gita until it is past by Vayas to Madva this is a very long gap of time many thousands of years

Vyas didnt explain Bhagavat Gita to any one before Madva?

certianly He must have all the hearers have explain Bhagavat gita as soon as they understood the message after it was spoken to Arjuna

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It really doesn't matter how the Gita passed down from the beginning,it is enough to know that the control God posseses

over the dissemination of transcendental knowledge

is a fact.

 

Arjuna was not only a Ksatriya,he was also a rajarsi,

a self realized soul, his position is transcendental.

 

A brahmana is not more qualified then anyone else to recieve transcendental knowledge, Mahaprabhu showed us that

in his pastime with Jagai and Madhai,they were both the lowest of men,yet due to the mercy of god ,became recipients

of the highest truth.

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