could someone who knows history help please?

[Guest guest]

 

Ajit is correct. The only place the word Shiva appears in the Veda is the Shwetashvatara, where it works even if the word is taken to mean pure. Pure is a better interpretation as it does not make sense that the name would appear only once in the entire corpus.

 

It is always Rudra who is mentioned in the Veda. The Puranas equate this vedic Rudra to Shiva who at that point had become popular enough to compete with Vishnu as the Supreme. Btw, it is clear that the Pashupata sect who worshipped Shiva and the Pancharatra sect who worshipped Vishnu have origins independent of the Veda as mentioned in the Mahabharata. I do not have the verses handy at the moment.

 

This holds true for Krishna & Narayana as well. Neither of the two are mentioned anywhere in the Veda. The Krishna who is mentioned once in the Chandogya as a pupil, is not interpreted as THE Krishna by tradition.

 

Cheers

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Shiv,

 

"The only place the word Shiva appears in the Veda is the Shwetashvatara, where it works even if the word is taken to mean pure."

 

How can you make such a conclusion when historians have concluded that 96% of the Vedas have been destroyed over time. How can you know what was in those Vedas?

 

"It is always Rudra who is mentioned in the Veda."

 

Since the 4 Vedas are meant for elevation to the heavenly planets, it would make sense that only Rudra is mentioned, since Rudra is Lord Shiva's form within each material universe. Lord Shiva is beyond the heavenly planets, which is why he is not mentioned.

 

"The Puranas equate this vedic Rudra to Shiva who at that point had become popular enough to compete with Vishnu as the Supreme."

 

The Supreme is not subject to popularity contests. The fact that the Puranas equate Rudra to be a form of Lord Shiva imply shows that that is exactly who Rudra is. Shiva never competes with Vishnu to be considered Supreme. Shiva is constantly meditating on the Supreme, not competing to become the Supreme.

 

"Btw, it is clear that the Pashupata sect who worshipped Shiva and the Pancharatra sect who worshipped Vishnu have origins independent of the Veda as mentioned in the Mahabharata. I do not have the verses handy at the moment."

 

Which shows that what you are claiming is UNCLEAR. And the wise do not accept unclear mental speculation.

 

"This holds true for Krishna & Narayana as well. Neither of the two are mentioned anywhere in the Veda. The Krishna who is mentioned once in the Chandogya as a pupil, is not interpreted as THE Krishna by tradition."

 

Since the 4 Vedas are meant for elevation to the heavenly planets, it would make sense that only Krishna is not explicitly mentioned, since He is beyond the heavenly planets, which is why he is not explicitly mentioned. In any case, 96% of the Vedas have been lost due to degradation, and so one cannot conclude what is in or not in the Vedas. When Vyasadeva has compiled the Puranas and Itihasas for this age of Kali, we should accept them as the authority on deciding what is the purpose of the Vedas. And in the Bhagavad-Gita, part of the Itihasa Mahabharata, Krishna concludes that 'I am to be known by the Vedas'.

 

Kind regards.

[ajit12 0]

Where do you get such farfetched idea that 96 % of vedas are lost ?Vedas are essentially sruties i.e. recited .If 96% of vedas is lost then we are not following vedic religion .What religion do we belong to?

Vedas are not meant for elevation of heavenly planets nor there is any science in vedas.No society can escape the bonds of time in which it lives.To put a PC on your table 400 years of scientific advancement is necessary.A few slokas about Viman or arrows carrying warheads does not mean science.

Within the confines of time we were great in atronomy,Mathematics[although not trignometry,our fourfathers did not know the value of 'pi'],Bharat's Natyashastra,Ayurveda[again it did not know about germs & bacteria.],Kaamsutra,Metalworking,Different schools of philosophy,building of forts & temples,meditation,cloth making & dyeing etc. We were much ahead of other societies.

This list is very long but all this was suitable for the time during which this society existed.They did not cross the boundaries of time and invent nuclear bomb.

[Guest guest]

"Shiva" is one of your 3 gods, right? Was he around back in the 1500 bc time-frame?

 

I'm so confused.

[Guest guest]

 

The "three Gods" concept is not true. There are plenty of Gods in the Hindu . and their roles vary according to the beliefs of each sub group.

 

Was Shiva around during 1500 bc?

 

Maybe, maybe not. But the chances are Shiva worship was existant in some groups. It is possible that Shiva's origin is from the Indus civilization which if true, would make him a real ancient God.

 

With Vishnu, we are on better ground as he a vedic God and we can say for sure that the concept of Vishnu existed during 1500 BC as have literature for confirmation.

 

Cheers

 

[Guest guest]

I went to see how many gods hindus have & found a site that listed the number as 330 million.

 

330 MILLION??????

 

Is that even POSSIBLE?

 

What literature says that vishnu or whoever existed? And was that around the Indus Civilization or not?

[Guest guest]

 

Vishnu is mentioned in the Rig-veda. If you require more details, I would recommend you read a book instead fo looking up forums and internet articles. Although this appears to be an easier option, the danger of finding incorrect information is always present.

 

Cheers

 

 

[ajit12 0]

This confusion started with puranic verses glorifying the cow.The cow is supposed to contain 33 deities [not 33 million] in her stomach.The were 8 vasus,8 dishadevs etc.Unfortunately I do not have the references handy as I am travelling.These 33 deities together as a class are known as "koti" which in Marathi[indian regional language] also means crores [one crore is 10 million.] Hence someone translating the puranic verses translated 33 "koti" as 33 crores i.e.330 million sometime in 1904 or there abouts.This myth came from Marathi to English and other languages and has persisted ever since.I will post the relevent refernces when I am back from my travels