Why did God create man?

[jay74 0]

I had an argument with a christian friend of mine.

 

He said God created man to have free will. God wants man to worship him. That is the sole reason to create man.

 

My question to him was Is God a narcissist to create entire human race just to worship him?

 

If God is omnipotent and all knowing then why did he create man.

What is the purpose?

 

 

[Guest guest]

God created man solely for the purpose of Self-realization and nothing else.

[Guest guest]

there are a few ways to answer this, but first

the reason for the existance of any living being is the same as it is for man's.

 

to say 'god creatred man (soil)' means at one point there was no man or soul. the vedic literature says that soul and supersoul (god) are eternal, and there is inherent loving relation bertween them. this is dvaita view.

 

advaita view is that just as waves are born from the ocean ultimately merge into the ocean, souls are born from god, and take up the individuality with free will and desires.

then after a soul does karma than makes him enjoy or suffer in the material world. the suffering causes a soul (jiva) spiritually wiser and wiser, and finally a soul merges back into god. that is moksha, deliverance from miserable births and deaths.

 

bhagavatam and other purana describe maha vishnu.

he is lain down, as if sleeping but with eyes half open as if in samadhi, on a bed made of coiled serpant shesha naag who is afloat in an ocean. as he exhales, millions of universes are springing out from the pores of his skin. each universe has its brahma, many planets and life.

as he inhales the universes merge back in the pores of his body. the period of his breath is the life of a universe.

within each universe there are cycles of creations and devastations. the purana says that the jivas become dormant when they enter vishnu's body, and start activity again when come put as if from a slumber.

why it is so, is not asnwerable. it it as it is.

god is god with his free will that no one can question.

 

another answer is that god always is in bliss, always enjoying. he creates but his karma does not bind him like it binds us. in that respect god walks as he talks.

 

hinduism also says - indicectly - that man is not created to lord over (explont whimsically) the planet and life on it. it is man's sacred duty to protect life on the planet. man ought to feel as if he is just a temporary guest on the planet, not the lord of it, and the animals are not created by god as man's food and whimsical exploitation. a vedic cultured man (aarya) is eco-friendly. the earth is a mother for him, and he respects it very much, and cares it, so much that one walks softly, not hurting the earth.

 

hope it helps.

jai sri krishna!

-maadhav

 

 

[Sephiroth 0]

He said God created man to have free will. God wants man to worship him. That is the sole reason to create man.

 

If God's purpose to get Man to worship Him alone, then He shouldn't have given Free Will to choose.

 

If God gave Man free will to choose, then He shouldn't create Heaven and Hell to reward or damn Humans.

 

If He reward some Humans for their choice to worship Him, then ask your Christian friend whether s/he worship God for sake of Worshipping God or to get into Heaven.

 

If He damn Humans to hell for not worshipping God, then whose fault is it for the Free Will that was given to Humans and exercised accordingly? Man's or God's.

 

And finally ask your friend that if Humans fear His Hell and worship Him to avoid going there, then what is the use of Free Will if threats is all that can be used?

 

If God is omnipotent and all knowing then why did he create man. What is the purpose?

 

I don't know what others will say but for me, I say God made Man perfect (in His own Image) but Man, due to his own Self and Mind, made himself imperfect.

 

So, our duty in Life is to seek perfection in Life so we can become perfect and return back to Him as He made us so. That's what I believe is Human's purpose in existence. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Hedied4us2live 0]

if someone already said this... well here it is agian I did not read the whole thread..actaully God created us to show that He loves us... He knew before you were born who would worship Him or not

[Guest guest]

it's all well and good to understand that He loves us. but have you ever thought about this all too convenient selling point? take it to the next level. Love only comes with greater vision. you love a girl because you see her strengths, and her faults too become strengths. greater vision destroys all ignorance. the faculties of expansive vision allow one to overcome all odds. if you hit me and i dont hit back it doesnt necessarily mean i love you. it might mean that i dont see the point in progressive violence, or it might mean that i understand what is the source of your frustration, and i can manipulate your method to see what is a better method...christ didnt put himself up on the cross because he loved us. the church sells you that so they can buy your soul. christ put himself up on the cross to be a blatant advertisement for an ideal, for the abosolute truth which he believed in completely.

 

watch some popular commercialised TV ads. write down the slogans of each one. the slogans then become the product, the reason for buying it. christianity uses that one..."he loves us...he dies for us"..."for our sins". its up on every billboard outside the church, so much so that we walk past it and look it over cause we know it's rubbish for the weak minded. God is not so feeling to be a human like they say, or an endless fountain of loving emotion. if that was the case, he would only have given us the ability to reciprocate love, rather than have free will. it is your security blanket to think that he loves us, that's what makes you conveniently forget your past, forget your weakpoints, and forget the things you dont like about yourself. the church is a big faction selling numbess and illusion. no great man in the bible had endless love, they only had cold logic and reason, with an enlightened mindframe. they left love behind. look at the disciples.

[Guest guest]

So there is no question of Bhagavan creating him. OTOH, Bhagavan creates jagat out of jada, which also is anadinitya. The reason for this creation is explained by Bhagavan's swabhava to create. And the jiva does his sadhana based on his swabhava using jagat as an instrument of sadhana. Whether the jiva worships Bhagavan in course of their sadhana depends on their swarupa, satvikas do and asuras (rajasikas and ramasikas) don't.

 

This is what creation is all about, it is NOT about Bhagavan 'creating' jivas one fine day in the hope that they'd worship Him. All three entities-jiva, jada and Bhagavan-are anadinitya. The questions such as 'why creation' etc. are answered by one reason and one reason only:swabhava that's inherent in all three entities. There is no extrinsic reason like "it is for play" or "Bhagavan wants to show his love" and so on.

[barney 0]

Before existence of any living entity the universe was already there. How it came about is the question. If you see the desert during the day it would appear in one form and by night falls the whole landscape would have changed to a different formation. That is due to the wind and temprature that makes the changes of desert sandcape. Likewise the universe is controled by the wind and temprature and the rotation of it makes the planets oval in shape.

 

You take a bucket of earth and leave it in a suitable place for some time, may be a month or so. After a one month period you overturn the bucket and you will find microscopic life fors moving about. That was how all life forms evolved and due to different kind of food intake in order to survive to survive. Due to changes in the temperature and molecule structure, life forms developed over millions of years to what we see now.

 

As we can see there are still new life forms being discovered by scientist which had not been there before. So, in short life form of all entity appeared due to the atmosphere and molecules. Religion was formed very much later when the developed man needed some kind of guidence and laws to control society. If man was so advance from birth as what the religious books say than why were there premitive men? How they learn to make tools to hunt and discovered how to make fire. Before that they were only eating uncooked meal such and raw meat and other product of the forest. Only after discover how to make fire did they learn to barbecued raw meat.

 

The concept of religon and GOD only appeared very very much later. The uncivilized humans were a very barbaric and some developed brains contemplated on how to make this humans to lead an orderly life. And so religion was born with conditions such as respecting the five elements and special rituals to appease the fire provided warmth during the cold nights and helps to cook the meat for consumption. And so FIRE became God for the first civilzation. In truth there is no creator but self creation only. There are mnay ways to explain but due to parental guidence and teachings left by the elders that made society grow and developed into a civilization. And so, there is no such thing as GOD because it was man who created HIM and without man there is no GOD. Who is to mention the name GOD if man is not here?

 

Sorry, but just for debate I dewelled into the mind of an atheist.

 

OM NAMA SHIVAYA

[Sephiroth 0]

Sorry, but just for debate I dewelled into the mind of an atheist.

 

Finally, you came out and admit you are an atheist. Hmph, no wonder you gave me the impression I was talking to an atheist animal. No logic and intelligent at all. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Nothing more to say.

[saumya 0]

i completely agree with Sephiroth.

 

[barney 0]

You are neither a psychic nor a phsycologist. If you do not know how to judge people please do not act like one and make a fool of yourself. There was no admission nor an attempt to prove that I'm an atheist. Did you not see my heading? For your inoformation atheist are far more better people than you. They have much respect for fellow humans whereas people like you who pretend to be believers have no such respect.

 

You have nothing more to say because you cannot comprehend the facts.

 

 

[Samkhya 0]

Your behavior is disappointing and unacceptable. You don't give a good picture of your religion. Please try to get better.

[Sephiroth 0]

There was no admission nor an attempt to prove that I'm an atheist.

 

You already admitted you are Atheist earlier when you state you speak from an atheist mindset. How do speak in an atheist mindset if you are not an atheist yourself? Don't make excuse now ... you already admit your animalistic nature. So, go ... no use discussion human issues with animals.

 

For your inoformation atheist are far more better people than you. They have much respect for fellow humans whereas people like you who pretend to be believers have no such respect.

 

Like I said ... Atheists are ANIMALS. They can talk all they want on respect and nonsense like that but in the end, they have NO interest in anything than getting others to think like them.

 

I had spent nearly a year in Atheists forum last time, discussion with them. Many of them simply people who didn't get the properly picture on religion and god, many even fooled by idiots like Priests and parishs who themselves have no knowledge of God. This sort of people willing to understand and open their mind.

 

However, there some idiots who don't care about spiritualism and God. ALL they care is making excuse, then use it to self-indulge. They go to pubs, discos, fool around with women, drink like pigs, spend money indulging themselves while fellow men suffers and many things.

 

When others tells them about Karma and Suffering they going to get by continuing to live like animals, they make all sort of nonsense like Karma is fairy tale to scare people and God is a boogeyman who old people used to scare kids.

 

So trust me, I know what sort of animals atheists are.

[Samkhya 0]

I thought that the Gita should have taught you non-violence.

[Guest guest]

in a sense, god did "create man to worship him". however specifically man created the concept of god. god is a natural universal law, 'ritm', or 'logos'. it is not a sentient thinking spiritual being, in my opinion, it is awareness and the source of consciousness. it is present in every life form, every non-life form too. we are an evolutionary product of a natural law that has been consistently at play for trillions of years. karma, cause and effect, time itself continues to feed itself by the will of existence. if time didn't stay true to it's source, it if didn't abide by the laws of the source, time would falte somehow, maya would perhaps cease. whether we worship god or not is a matter or religion and faith. it could be that the evolutionary process requires us to 'worship' god, in order for progressive generations to enhance their ability to come into contact with the inner source / god. if generations forgot the source, we would lose our understanding of it. our minds would not be in flux with natural law, equanimity. so it's beneficial for us to worship god, but dont forget that once we were created, we had free will...

[imported_Sanjay 0]

Dear Sephiroth

 

The christian friend is correct... GOd did create man free and to worship HIM. God made man so that he may have fellowship with him too.

 

YOUR VIEW

 

If God's purpose to get Man to worship Him alone, then He shouldn't have given Free Will to choose.

 

WELL GOD GAVE MAN A FREE WILL BECAUSE HE MADE MAN IN HIS OWN IMAGE. AND SECONDLY HE WANTED MAN TO WORSHIP HIM OUT OF A FREE WILL. OUT OF CHOICE AND NOT COMPULSION. GOD DID NOT WANT ROBOTS WORSHIPPING HIM.

 

YOU SAID

 

"If God gave Man free will to choose, then He shouldn't create Heaven and Hell to reward or damn Humans."

 

GODS KINGDOM DOES NOT WORK ON HIS WHIMS AND FANCIES. HE HAS KINDGDOM RULES. AND ONE SUCH RULE IS "THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH"

GOD SHOWED MAN THAT IF HE SINS HE HAS TO PAY WITH DEATH. MAN DISOBEYED GOD AND SINNED AND THEREFORE FACED SPIRITUAL DEATH. GOD KNEW THAT MAN CANNOT REDEEM HIMSELF SO HE SENT HIS SON JESUS CHRIST DOWN TO EARTH IN HUMAN FORM SO THAT HE MAY SHED HOLY AND SINLESS BLOOD AND THEREFORE PAY THE PRICE FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD ONCE FOR ALL AND THAT WE ONLY NEED TO BELIEVE IN THAT SACRIFICE OF JESUS TO CLAIM VICTORY OVER OUR SPIRITUAL DEATH. SO THAT WE MATY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE IN HEAVEN WITH HIM. THOSE WHO REJECT THIS GODS SALVATION PROVISION FOR THEM ARE REJECTING HEAVEN OUT OF CHOICE AND THEREFORE THEY ARE TO GO TO HELL.

 

 

YOU WROTE

"If He reward some Humans for their choice to worship Him, then ask your Christian friend whether s/he worship God for sake of Worshipping God or to get into Heaven."

 

PLEASE UNDERSTAND - WORSHIPPING GOD DOES NOT GET YOU TO HEAVEN. BUT BELIEVING THAT JESUS IS GOD AND THAT HE DIES ON THE CROSS FOR YOUR SINS AND CONFESSING HIM AS LORD GIVES YOU SALVATION AND OPENS THE WAY TO HEAVEN. REPENTANCE FROM SINS AND GENUINE DESIRE TO TURN AWAY FROM SIN MUST BE THERE TOO.

 

WORSHIP FOLLOWS AFTER THIS... IT IS ONLY AFTER ONE ACKNOWLEDGES JESUS AS GOD THAT ONE CAN WORSHIP HIM. JESUS DOES NOT CARE FOR OUTWARDLY WORSHIP HE WANTS WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

 

YOU WROTE

 

"If He damn Humans to hell for not worshipping God, then whose fault is it for the Free Will that was given to Humans and exercised accordingly? Man's or God's. "

 

GET YOUR FUNDA'S RIGHT

 

FIRSTLY - GOD CAN NEVER BE AT FAULT

 

SECONDLY - GOD GAVE MAN A CHOICE... BELIEVE IN JESUS AND LIVE WITH HIM IN HEAVEN OR DO NOT BELIEVE AND GO TO HELL...

 

GOD GAVE MAN A CHOICE BECAUSE GOD DOES NOT WANT FORCED LOVE FROM MAN. HE DOES NOT WANT ROBOTS IN HEAVEN WITH HIM. HE WANTS PEOPLE WHO LOVE HIJM OUT OF CHOICE AND NOT FORCE. HE DOES NOT FORCE HIMSELF INTO ANYONES LIFE... MAN IS FREE TO CHOOSE OR NOT TO CHOOSE.

 

YOU WROTE

"And finally ask your friend that if Humans fear His Hell and worship Him to avoid going there, then what is the use of Free Will if threats is all that can be used? "

 

LET ME TELL YOU THAT HELL IS NOT GODS. HELL IS A PLACE OF THE DEVIL. PEOPLE ARE HEADED THERE BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO BELIEVE THE DEVILS LIE. THEREFORE IT IS THE DUTY OF US WHO KNOW THE TRUTH TO TELL THE WORLD ABOUT THE TRUTH. JESUS SAID I AM THE TRUTH.

AGAIN I SAY THAT HUMANS WILL NOT GO TO HEAVEN BECAUSE THEY WORSHIP JESUS. THEY WILL GO TO HEAVEN IF THEY BELIEVE IN JESUS AND HIS SACRIFICE ON EARTH FOR OUR REDEMPTION.

 

SO GOD DOES NOT SAY THAT WORSHIP ME OR ELSE I WILL SEND YOU TO HELL.

HE SAYS CHILD YOU ARE ON YOUR WAY TO HELL BECAUSE YOU ARE A SINNER BUT I HAVE MADE A WAY FOR YOU TO COME TO HEAVEN AND THAT WAY IS CALLED JESUS. BELIEVE IN HIM AND COME TO HEAVEN. HE HAS MADE IT SO SIMPLE FOR US ONLY BECAUSE HE LOVES US.

YOU SEE ONE CAN WORSHIP OUT OF FEAR BUT ONE CANNOT BELIEVE OUT OF FEAR. GOD TOO KNEW THIS AND THEREFORE WORSHIP COMES SECOND FOR HIM. THE CRITERIA FOR HEAVEN IN BELIEVING IN YOUR HEART AND CONFESSING JESUS CHRIST IS LORD WITH YOUR MOUTH.

 

YOU WROTE

 

"I don't know what others will say but for me, I say God made Man perfect (in His own Image) but Man, due to his own Self and Mind, made himself imperfect. "

 

YES VERY MUCH TRUE - MAN DISOBEYED GOD AND SO HE SINNED AND SO HE BECAME IMPERFECT. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT

 

YOU WROTE

 

"So, our duty in Life is to seek perfection in Life so we can become perfect and return back to Him as He made us so. That's what I believe is Human's purpose in existence."

 

TRY AS WE MIGHT WE CANNOT BE PERFECT.

ONLY G OD IS PERFECT.

GOD UNDERSTOOD THIS AND SO HE SENT HIS SON JESUS FOR US. HE WAS PERFECT AND DID NOT SIN.

HE DIED ON THE CROSS TO PAY THE PRICE FOR ALL OUR SINS ONCE FOR ALL. WE NEED TO ONLY BELIEVE IN HIM AND CALL HIM IN OUR HEARTS.

HE SAYS I AM KNOCKING AT THE DOOR OF YOUR HEART IF ANYONE WANTS THEY CAN OPEN THE DOOR AND LET ME IN.

 

TODAY BROTHER IF YOU INVITE HIM INTO YOUR HEART BELIEVING THAT HE IS GOD HE WILL COME IN AND CHANGE YOUR LIFE FROM THE INSIDE. HE WILL TAKE YOU TOWARDS PERFECTION.

ONLY HE CAN DO IT. HE SAID I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.

 

SAY THIS PRAYER FROM YOUR HEART

 

DEAR GOD I CONFESS THAT I AM A SINNER. I HAVE DONE MUCH WRONG, BUT TODAY LORD I REPENT FOPR ALL MY SINS. I SEEK TO TURN AWAY FROM THEM AND LEAD A LIFE LIKE YOURS. COME LORD JESUS INTO MY HEART AND CHANGE ME FROM THE INSIDE. I SURRENDER MY LIFE TO YOU. I CONFESS WITH MY MOUTH THAT JESUS YOU ARE LORD WHO DIED ON THE CROSS FOR MY SINS. WASH ME LORD WTH YOUR BLOOD. THIS PRAYER I ASK IN THE MIGHTY NAME OF YOUR SON JESUS CHRIST - AMEN [AMEN MEANS 'SO BE IT']

 

BELIEVE ME IF YOU HAVE SAID THIS PRAYER FROM YOUR HEART YOUR LIFE WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN.

YOU ARE HEADED TOWARDS PERFECTION... JESUS WILL WORK ON YOU EVERYDAY TO MAKE YOU PERFECT.

 

TAKE ARE AND LOTS OF LOVE TO YOU IN THE LORD.

 

GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST

 

 

If God's purpose to get Man to worship Him alone, then He shouldn't have given Free Will to choose.

 

If God gave Man free will to choose, then He shouldn't create Heaven and Hell to reward or damn Humans.

 

If He reward some Humans for their choice to worship Him, then ask your Christian friend whether s/he worship God for sake of Worshipping God or to get into Heaven.

 

If He damn Humans to hell for not worshipping God, then whose fault is it for the Free Will that was given to Humans and exercised accordingly? Man's or God's.

 

And finally ask your friend that if Humans fear His Hell and worship Him to avoid going there, then what is the use of Free Will if threats is all that can be used?

 

If God is omnipotent and all knowing then why did he create man. What is the purpose?

 

I don't know what others will say but for me, I say God made Man perfect (in His own Image) but Man, due to his own Self and Mind, made himself imperfect.

 

So, our duty in Life is to seek perfection in Life so we can become perfect and return back to Him as He made us so. That's what I believe is Human's purpose in existence.

[barney 0]

Dear solomonsanjay,

 

Your Response:

 

WELL GOD GAVE MAN A FREE WILL BECAUSE HE MADE MAN IN HIS OWN IMAGE. AND SECONDLY HE WANTED MAN TO WORSHIP HIM OUT OF A FREE WILL. OUT OF CHOICE AND NOT COMPULSION. GOD DID NOT WANT ROBOTS WORSHIPPING HIM.

---------------------------

 

God did not give freewill to man. Freewill comes from within man himself. The choice of wanting or not wanting is within man and related to his karma. God is only an observer, like a refree watching your every action. The result of your past action is what you are today.

---------------------------

 

Your Response:

 

GODS KINGDOM DOES NOT WORK ON HIS WHIMS AND FANCIES. HE HAS KINDGDOM RULES. AND ONE SUCH RULE IS "THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH"

GOD SHOWED MAN THAT IF HE SINS HE HAS TO PAY WITH DEATH. MAN DISOBEYED GOD AND SINNED AND THEREFORE FACED SPIRITUAL DEATH. GOD KNEW THAT MAN CANNOT REDEEM HIMSELF SO HE SENT HIS SON JESUS CHRIST DOWN TO EARTH IN HUMAN FORM SO THAT HE MAY SHED HOLY AND SINLESS BLOOD AND THEREFORE PAY THE PRICE FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD ONCE FOR ALL AND THAT WE ONLY NEED TO BELIEVE IN THAT SACRIFICE OF JESUS TO CLAIM VICTORY OVER OUR SPIRITUAL DEATH. SO THAT WE MATY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE IN HEAVEN WITH HIM. THOSE WHO REJECT THIS GODS SALVATION PROVISION FOR THEM ARE REJECTING HEAVEN OUT OF CHOICE AND THEREFORE THEY ARE TO GO TO HELL.

----------------------------

 

 

Wrong perception. Everyone that is born will die. Sinner or no sinner the body will decay and the soul lives on. There is no death for soul. It trans migrate inot another body. Haven and hell is a believe of a five year old kid. The HEAVEN you talk about is right here and so is HELL. Can't you see for youself what is happening to man on earth. The suffering he goes through is HELL for him. Death by accident, murder, mutilated body, cripled, born without limbs, born blind, burnt alive in fire, suffering with uncureable diseases and many other shocking incidents are all sufferings of man in HELL. Enjoying the fruit of his labour, living in a luxurious house with a fleet of cars, having servants to serve you, respected by community, never diminishing wealth are all enjoyments of PARADISE OR HEAVEN you so eager to enjoy hereafter. The hereafter you dream of is nothing but you souls transmigration into another body.

---------------------------

 

Your Response:

 

PLEASE UNDERSTAND - WORSHIPPING GOD DOES NOT GET YOU TO HEAVEN. BUT BELIEVING THAT JESUS IS GOD AND THAT HE DIES ON THE CROSS FOR YOUR SINS AND CONFESSING HIM AS LORD GIVES YOU SALVATION AND OPENS THE WAY TO HEAVEN. REPENTANCE FROM SINS AND GENUINE DESIRE TO TURN AWAY FROM SIN MUST BE THERE TOO.

 

WORSHIP FOLLOWS AFTER THIS... IT IS ONLY AFTER ONE ACKNOWLEDGES JESUS AS GOD THAT ONE CAN WORSHIP HIM. JESUS DOES NOT CARE FOR OUTWARDLY WORSHIP HE WANTS WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

---------------------------

 

Wrong again. Jesus did not ask you to pray to him but serve mankink in order to have a better life in the next. The apostals have misquoted him. He let me refresh you memory of your religion.

 

`Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.'

 

37 Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? 39 And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' 40 And the King will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.' 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, `Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44 Then they also will answer, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' 45 Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' 46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

 

What can you get from the above phrases? That is to say you must serve your fellow man. Jesus at no time ask his followers to pray to him but GOD alone. You and your people have rewritten the gospal to your whims and fancies. No wonder your people are all leaving your congregation as they have come to know the real thruth. Jesus was a reformer of the Jewish faith and he proclaimed that the kingdom of HEAVEN is at hand, which means man can make this world a HEAven if you wishes otherwise it would be HELL.

---------------------------

 

Your Response:

 

GET YOUR FUNDA'S RIGHT

 

FIRSTLY - GOD CAN NEVER BE AT FAULT

 

SECONDLY - GOD GAVE MAN A CHOICE... BELIEVE IN JESUS AND LIVE WITH HIM IN HEAVEN OR DO NOT BELIEVE AND GO TO HELL...

 

GOD GAVE MAN A CHOICE BECAUSE GOD DOES NOT WANT FORCED LOVE FROM MAN. HE DOES NOT WANT ROBOTS IN HEAVEN WITH HIM. HE WANTS PEOPLE WHO LOVE HIJM OUT OF CHOICE AND NOT FORCE. HE DOES NOT FORCE HIMSELF INTO ANYONES LIFE... MAN IS FREE TO CHOOSE OR NOT TO CHOOSE.

 

---------------------------

 

Yes, you are right, GOD cannot be at fault but man is. He chosed the wrong path and teachings. He believed the concocted gospel of the apostals. Peter had no faith is Jesus and so he denied three times when asked if he knew the man from Nazereth. Paul who was not with him most of the time wrote all lies as he did not see in person of the happenings. Too many flaws in the gospel.....

 

1.Matthew and Luke give two contradictory genealogies for Joseph (Matthew 1:2-17 and Luke 3:23-38). They cannot even agree on who the father of Joseph was. Church apologists try to eliminate this discrepancy by suggesting that the genealogy in Luke is actually Mary's, even though Luke says explicitly that it is Joseph's genealogy (Luke 3:23). Christians have had problems reconciling the two genealogies since at least the early fourth century. It was then that Eusebius, a "Church Father," wrote in his The History of the Church, "each believer has been only too eager to dilate at length on these passages."

 

2.Of all the writers of the New Testament, only Matthew and Luke mention the virgin birth. Had something as miraculous as the virgin birth actually occurred, one would expect that Mark and John would have at least mentioned it in their efforts to convince the world that Jesus was who they were claiming him to be.

 

The apostle Paul never mentions the virgin birth, even though it would have strengthened his arguments in several places. Instead, where Paul does refer to Jesus' birth, he says that Jesus "was born of the seed of David" (Romans 1:3) and was "born of a woman," not a virgin (Galatians 4:4).

 

3.In Matthew, the angel appears to Joseph in a dream and tells him that Mary's child will save his people from their sins. In Luke, the angel tells Mary that her son will be great, he will be called the Son of the Most High and will rule on David's throne forever. A short time later Mary tells Elizabeth that all generations will consider her (Mary) blessed because of the child that will be born to her.

 

If this were true, Mary and Joseph should have had the highest regard for their son. Instead, we read in Mark 3:20-21 that Jesus' family tried to take custody of him because they thought he had lost his mind. And later, in Mark 6:4-6 Jesus complained that he received no honor among his own relatives and his own household.

 

I can go on if you need more. So what is that you ment to tell us here?

---------------------------

 

Your Response:

 

LET ME TELL YOU THAT HELL IS NOT GODS. HELL IS A PLACE OF THE DEVIL. PEOPLE ARE HEADED THERE BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO BELIEVE THE DEVILS LIE. THEREFORE IT IS THE DUTY OF US WHO KNOW THE TRUTH TO TELL THE WORLD ABOUT THE TRUTH. JESUS SAID I AM THE TRUTH.

AGAIN I SAY THAT HUMANS WILL NOT GO TO HEAVEN BECAUSE THEY WORSHIP JESUS. THEY WILL GO TO HEAVEN IF THEY BELIEVE IN JESUS AND HIS SACRIFICE ON EARTH FOR OUR REDEMPTION.

 

SO GOD DOES NOT SAY THAT WORSHIP ME OR ELSE I WILL SEND YOU TO HELL.

HE SAYS CHILD YOU ARE ON YOUR WAY TO HELL BECAUSE YOU ARE A SINNER BUT I HAVE MADE A WAY FOR YOU TO COME TO HEAVEN AND THAT WAY IS CALLED JESUS. BELIEVE IN HIM AND COME TO HEAVEN. HE HAS MADE IT SO SIMPLE FOR US ONLY BECAUSE HE LOVES US.

YOU SEE ONE CAN WORSHIP OUT OF FEAR BUT ONE CANNOT BELIEVE OUT OF FEAR. GOD TOO KNEW THIS AND THEREFORE WORSHIP COMES SECOND FOR HIM. THE CRITERIA FOR HEAVEN IN BELIEVING IN YOUR HEART AND CONFESSING JESUS CHRIST IS LORD WITH YOUR MOUTH.

 

---------------------------

 

Sorry you do not know the TRUTH. That is because you do not use your brain to analyze but simple accept all as solmn truth. Your brain should be utilized in full force to analyze what is the real TRUTh and what is false. The DEVIL that lies is within you and not in the HELL that you imagine. Jesus spoke in parables and they uneducated fisherman could not understand a word of what Jesus said but simply made stories to his limited knowledge and imagination. How could the Christians believe in Jesus when the bible lies. They do not no the true nature of Jesus but just believed what the apostals wrote. Most are stories of hersay and no conclusive evidence to thier claim.

 

Contradicting stories such as this can be very damaging to your church.

 

1. Luke has Mary and Joseph travelling from their home in Nazareth in Galilee to Bethlehem in Judea for the birth of Jesus (Luke 2:4). Matthew, in contradiction to Luke, says that it was only after the birth of Jesus that Mary and Joseph resided in Nazareth, and then only because they were afraid to return to Judea (Matthew 2:21-23).

 

2. Matthew, in his zeal to prove that Jesus was the Messiah, searched the Old Testament for passages (sometimes just phrases) that could be construed as messianic prophecies and then created or modified events in Jesus' life to fulfill those "prophecies."

 

Fortunately for those who really want to know the truth, Matthew made a colossal blunder later in his gospel which leaves no doubt at all as to which of the above possibilities is true. His blunder involves what is known as Jesus' triumphant entry into Jerusalem riding on a donkey (if you believe Mark, Luke or John) or riding on two donkeys (if you believe Matthew). In Matthew 21:1-7, two animals are mentioned in three of the verses, so this cannot be explained away as a copying error. And Matthew has Jesus riding on both animals at the same time, for verse 7 literally says, "on them he sat."

 

Too many flaws and contradiction and here you are talking about Jesus being GOD.

---------------------------

 

Your Response:

 

TRY AS WE MIGHT WE CANNOT BE PERFECT.

ONLY G OD IS PERFECT.

GOD UNDERSTOOD THIS AND SO HE SENT HIS SON JESUS FOR US. HE WAS PERFECT AND DID NOT SIN.

HE DIED ON THE CROSS TO PAY THE PRICE FOR ALL OUR SINS ONCE FOR ALL. WE NEED TO ONLY BELIEVE IN HIM AND CALL HIM IN OUR HEARTS.

HE SAYS I AM KNOCKING AT THE DOOR OF YOUR HEART IF ANYONE WANTS THEY CAN OPEN THE DOOR AND LET ME IN.

 

TODAY BROTHER IF YOU INVITE HIM INTO YOUR HEART BELIEVING THAT HE IS GOD HE WILL COME IN AND CHANGE YOUR LIFE FROM THE INSIDE. HE WILL TAKE YOU TOWARDS PERFECTION.

ONLY HE CAN DO IT. HE SAID I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.

 

SAY THIS PRAYER FROM YOUR HEART

 

DEAR GOD I CONFESS THAT I AM A SINNER. I HAVE DONE MUCH WRONG, BUT TODAY LORD I REPENT FOPR ALL MY SINS. I SEEK TO TURN AWAY FROM THEM AND LEAD A LIFE LIKE YOURS. COME LORD JESUS INTO MY HEART AND CHANGE ME FROM THE INSIDE. I SURRENDER MY LIFE TO YOU. I CONFESS WITH MY MOUTH THAT JESUS YOU ARE LORD WHO DIED ON THE CROSS FOR MY SINS. WASH ME LORD WTH YOUR BLOOD. THIS PRAYER I ASK IN THE MIGHTY NAME OF YOUR SON JESUS CHRIST - AMEN [AMEN MEANS 'SO BE IT']

 

BELIEVE ME IF YOU HAVE SAID THIS PRAYER FROM YOUR HEART YOUR LIFE WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN.

YOU ARE HEADED TOWARDS PERFECTION... JESUS WILL WORK ON YOU EVERYDAY TO MAKE YOU PERFECT.

 

TAKE ARE AND LOTS OF LOVE TO YOU IN THE LORD.

-----------------------------

 

That is what you think and that is what Christianity thought you. Man can be perfect and is proven to be so.

 

1. Swami Rammalingam was perfect.

2. Swami Ramakrishna was perfect.

3. Swami Vivaknanda was perfect.

3. Andal was perfect.

4. Savithri was perfect.

 

These are only a few to mentioned. The list goes on so your argument is basless. You believe what the bible said without analyzing it's content and the flaws.

 

So, as far as we undersant and believe Jesus was another reformer like Gautama Buddha. Jesus tries to explain what is in the Torah to the peasants in simple way in story form. He disagreed with some of the orthodox belief of the clergies. Do not make him into GOD. Why would GOd want to suffer for man's sin? Man is the master of his own destiny. Go on the path of your choice and see the result, ecperience the live you feel is right and eventualy you will reach my abode when you karma is exhausted. You need better understanding of religion and what it actually mean. Don't think about HELL and HEAVEn is somewhere out in the space. It is right here and it's you who can make the choice not GOD or Jesus.

 

OM NAMASHIVAYA

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I am a Christian, can't spend too much time, but i myself have pondered this question. However, jay74, ask yourself this:

 

Is it narcissistic simply to want to be loved?

 

If so, then what is the alternative? Should you want to be hated? Ignored? Alone?

 

According to Christian methodology, God is eternal. He always existed. The alternitve of never creating man is that God, alone, would exist alone. Forever (if there were such a concept of "forever"...).

 

Furthermore, if the sights of this world are any indication, God loves creating. It is like a hobby. In the Biblical book of Job we can see this:

 

======

Job, who is suffering, is in dispair. He curses God. But finally God answers Job back:

 

"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?"

 

"Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea

or walked in the recesses of the deep?

Have the gates of death been shown to you?

Have you seen the gates of the shadow of death?

Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?

Tell me, if you know all this."

 

"Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain,

and a path for the thunderstorm,

to water a land where no man lives,

a desert with no one in it,

to satisfy a desolate wasteland

and make it sprout with grass?

Does the rain have a father?

Who fathers the drops of dew?

From whose womb comes the ice?

Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens

when the waters become hard as stone,

when the surface of the deep is frozen?

 

"Can you raise your voice to the clouds

and cover yourself with a flood of water?

Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?

Do they report to you, 'Here we are'?

Who endowed the heart with wisdom

or gave understanding to the mind?

Who has the wisdom to count the clouds?

Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens

when the dust becomes hard

and the clods of earth stick together?

 

"Do you hunt the prey for the lioness

and satisfy the hunger of the lions

when they crouch in their dens

or lie in wait in a thicket?

Who provides food for the raven

when its young cry out to God

and wander about for lack of food?

 

=========

 

Obviously, as this passage shows, God is maintaining the universe. Why? Because He likes to! He enjoys creation. He enjoys creating. He is an artist, Who says, "I just have to paint."

 

If you could do any of these things, wouldn't you? How wonderful is the world God made! We enjoy seeing a sunset. Can not God enjoy seeing (and causing) a sunset?

 

Don't you see? God is the purpose. He enjoys it. And He loves to see us live. He loves being a Father, so much that He was willing to die for us. What a wonderful Father to die for His hateful, insensate children!

 

Another passage compares God to a potter. Isaiah 29:16 says:

 

"You turn things around!

Shall the potter be considered as equal with the clay,

That what is made would say to its maker, "He did not make me";

Or what is formed say to him who formed it, "He has no understanding"?"

 

God didn't have to make us. He wanted to. That is why we are here. We are nothing but clay, yet He still died for us. That is the purpose; He wants to show how much He loves us, and how we should love Him. He wants to be loved.

 

Hope this cleared things up.

[gurukul 0]

Jay74 :My question to him was Is God a narcissist to create entire human race just to worship him?

 

Ans: what is a worship? -Have you seen and felt a beautiful scenary or an awesome and mighty waterfall or holding a tiny baby or had a bungee Jump? How did you responded to it? Was your response natural or forced one?

 

I am sure you will agree with me that your response was natural with awe,thrilling,unexplainable and ecastic.Nothing is forced or pushed to express that way.

 

That's worship.it is not ritualistic or out of fear as some religions practise.its natural without anyone telling about it to us.ABOVE ALL WE ENJOY IT AND WANTS THAT EXPERIENCE AGAIN AND AGAIN.So the answer is right as your freind suggested .It must not be seen as you look at it or understand it by looking at the way people practise it in this world (relationship of slave and master and ritualistic).

 

I am sure heaven is all about that nonstop experience which you and I would desire to have.the biblical concept of worship is that of father and child relationship than slave and master.The Joy is for eternity-forever and ever.heaven is all about God's triumphant victory over suffering,death,pain and problems.Therefore the christian creed mentioned is :

 

"THE CHEIF PURPOSE OF MAN IS TO GLORIFY HIM AND ENJOY HIM FOREVER"

 

who wound't want to be there?

 

[Sephiroth 0]

by Samkhya

 

1 thought that the Gita should have taught you non-violence

 

It did taught me non-violence but it didn't teach me to be slave to others. Your version of "non-violence" is blind tolerance to your Masters - a.k.a Slave Mentality. Go check the Internet and you will find more information about it.

 

Sorry, I'm NOBODY's Slave.

by solomonsanjay

 

The christian friend is correct... GOd did create man free and to worship HIM.

 

Don't be riddiculos ... you know . about when you say God made Man in His image.

 

God has no form - even Hindus believe that so what form did the Scriptures mentions when it says God made Man by His own image? Answer - Spiritual Image.

 

That is why goal of Judaism is to achieve perfection in Life. But Christians corrupt it by saying Jesus came and saved everyone and they don't need to work on it anymore.

 

GODS KINGDOM DOES NOT WORK ON HIS WHIMS AND FANCIES. HE HAS KINDGDOM RULES. AND ONE SUCH RULE IS "THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH"

 

This one of those things which Judaism AND Hindusm have in common - they respect Death and don't see it as punishment for Sin. Christians fear Death because of their Sinful nature.

 

Matter a fact, Death is the way to return back to God. Death is there to remind Man that his life in this world is temporarily and he needs to be responsible in his actions EVERY moment of his life because Death comes without any invitation. We don't fear Death, we respect Him. You fear Death because your sins stands before you.

 

BUT BELIEVING THAT JESUS IS GOD AND THAT HE DIES ON THE CROSS FOR YOUR SINS AND CONFESSING HIM AS LORD GIVES YOU SALVATION AND OPENS THE WAY TO HEAVEN.

 

But are Hindus' targetting to go to heaven? I don't think so. Are Jews targetting to reach heaven? Hell no ... both have one goal - to reach God, NOT to go to heaven and shake your legs there.

 

Your goal and my goal is different. My destination and your destination is different. So why should I believe in what you believe?

 

WORSHIP FOLLOWS AFTER THIS... IT IS ONLY AFTER ONE ACKNOWLEDGES JESUS AS GOD THAT ONE CAN WORSHIP HIM.

 

Wrong again - Abraham - by which the House of Hebrew people stands - had no church, temples or shrine. He worshipped God before jesus's name is mentioned and he didn't need any cross or symbols. Matter a fact, he knelt on the desert sand and worship God in his heart.

 

Why do people like you come and whine that you can only worship God NOW with Jesus as if no one worshipped God before the last 2,000 years?

 

GET YOUR FUNDA'S RIGHT

FIRSTLY - GOD CAN NEVER BE AT FAULT

 

SECONDLY - GOD GAVE MAN A CHOICE... BELIEVE IN JESUS AND LIVE WITH HIM IN HEAVEN OR DO NOT BELIEVE AND GO TO HELL...

 

GOD GAVE MAN A CHOICE BECAUSE GOD DOES NOT WANT FORCED LOVE FROM MAN. HE DOES NOT WANT ROBOTS IN HEAVEN WITH HIM. HE WANTS PEOPLE WHO LOVE HIJM OUT OF CHOICE AND NOT FORCE. HE DOES NOT FORCE HIMSELF INTO ANYONES LIFE... MAN IS FREE TO CHOOSE OR NOT TO CHOOSE.

 

When you say a God GIVE two (and ONLY TWO options) - worship Him by Jesus or be Damned - WHAT sort of God is that?

 

LET ME TELL YOU THAT HELL IS NOT GODS. HELL IS A PLACE OF THE DEVIL. PEOPLE ARE HEADED THERE BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO BELIEVE THE DEVILS LIE. THEREFORE IT IS THE DUTY OF US WHO KNOW THE TRUTH TO TELL THE WORLD ABOUT THE TRUTH. JESUS SAID I AM THE TRUTH.

 

One question - HOW do we know that you don't lie? Hell ... how do you know that you are not heading to Hell?

 

How can you come and tell me I'm going to Hell for not believing in you or Jesus when there is no proof that you will be going to go to Heaven and not Hell? Is that like a blind man accusing another blind man of not describing the sun properly when he himself don't know what the sun looks like? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

AGAIN I SAY THAT HUMANS WILL NOT GO TO HEAVEN BECAUSE THEY WORSHIP JESUS. THEY WILL GO TO HEAVEN IF THEY BELIEVE IN JESUS AND HIS SACRIFICE ON EARTH FOR OUR REDEMPTION.

 

Same thing, Stupid. What is the difference between believing in Jesus and worshipping him? Both is placing Jesus in your heart. Sorry ... ONLY One in my heart is God.

 

YES VERY MUCH TRUE - MAN DISOBEYED GOD AND SO HE SINNED AND SO HE BECAME IMPERFECT. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT

 

THEN the right thing Man can do is make himself perfect as again, NOT blindly believe that a god came to die and he is made perfect.

 

TRY AS WE MIGHT WE CANNOT BE PERFECT.

ONLY G OD IS PERFECT.

 

I know we cannot be perfect. That is not the task here. The task is - TRYING to become perfect as much as possible.

 

Life is a journey and God is destination. You busy thinking about the destination and not bothered about the journey. Living life is making the journey to God, whether we reach Him or not - it matters NOT.

 

In the end - He will not asked how fast you had reach God, He will be asking what did you do and sacrifice to reach God. Muslims sacrifice their own lives needlessly to reach God - commiting suicide blindly. That is not faith. Christians not even making any effects to reach God because they feel Jesus had done all the work for them. That is not faith either.

[Samkhya 0]

But free will does not exist. Natural forces and laws shape our behavior, along with a bit of chance. There remains no room for a conscious will which rules over matter. Think about that: as time goes on, science disovers more and more forces which act upon man and control his behavior.

 

As time goes on, it becomes less and less reasonable to believe in free will.

 

Therefore the concept of hell does not apply, unless God is a fiend. But the concept of salvation still makes sense.

[Sephiroth 0]

Natural forces and laws shape our behavior, along with a bit of chance.

 

You willing to believe in mere chance but you don't believe that Man have free will to choose? Sounds ignorant to me. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Think about that: as time goes on, science disovers more and more forces which act upon man and control his behavior.

 

And may I ask what did Science discovered NOW of this so-called "Forced of Nature" which governs Man's behavior? Give me some example of this "Forces" and how they effect Man please.

 

Therefore the concept of hell does not apply, unless God is a fiend. But the concept of salvation still makes sense.

 

Actually a permanent place called Hell does fit Scientifics explaination.

 

For example, in the Big Bang Theory for example, Scientists estimated that Matter and Anti-matter collided with itself and the violent explosion which resulted in it had formed the very Universe we see.

 

So where did this Matter and Anti-Matter came from? One possibility is that Anti-Matter comes from Hell and Matter comes from Heaven and the collisions of both resulted in dissolution of the very physically Universe, reunification with God and then recreation of the Universe once again in His own Image.

 

At least, this is how I believe the Universe came to be and going to end, only to be reabsorbed and recreated once again.

[Guest guest]

Jay74 :My question to him was Is God a narcissist to create entire human race just to worship him?

 

Ans: what is a worship? -Have you seen and felt a beautiful scenary or an awesome and mighty waterfall or holding a tiny baby or had a bungee Jump? How did you responded to it? Was your response natural or forced one?

 

I am sure you will agree with me that your response was natural with awe,thrilling,unexplainable and ecastic.Nothing is forced or pushed to express that way.

 

That's worship.it is not ritualistic or out of fear as some religions practise.its natural without anyone telling about it to us.ABOVE ALL WE ENJOY IT AND WANTS THAT EXPERIENCE AGAIN AND AGAIN.So the answer is right as your freind suggested .It must not be seen as you look at it or understand it by looking at the way people practise it in this world (relationship of slave and master and ritualistic).

 

I am sure heaven is all about that nonstop experience which you and I would desire to have.the biblical concept of worship is that of father and child relationship than slave and master.The Joy is for eternity-forever and ever.heaven is all about God's triumphant victory over suffering,death,pain and problems.Therefore the christian creed mentioned is :

 

"THE CHEIF PURPOSE OF MAN IS TO GLORIFY HIM AND ENJOY HIM FOREVER"

 

who wound't want to be there?

 

[Guest guest]

Sephiroth, you say:

 

"Christians not even making any effects [sic] to reach God because they feel Jesus had done all the work for them. That is not faith..."

 

Christians do have faith. It is easy to say things like:

 

"Living life is making the journey to God, whether we reach Him or not - it matters NOT."

 

It's much harder to say,

 

"It does matter. I could follow the wrong religion. If i'm wrong, i could burn in Hell forever. Torment."

 

A devil-may-care attitude is not faith. Faith is believing, believing strongly. A devil-may-care attitude is blindness.

 

(Deuteronomy 18:19)

If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will CALL HIM TO ACCOUNT.

 

Religion talks about what will happen to you when you die. In some religions, nothing happens. But in some, something BIG happens. If those BIG happenings are right, then there's a heck of a lot to worry about. I am willing to bet that if you died and went to Heck, you would certainly change your attitude about the "journey to God" very quickly.

 

There is always the chance that one's religion is wrong. That is why you should always question, ask, and seek for answers. If you don't, and abandon eternity to a "devil-may-care" attitude, then that most certainly is not faith, either. That is a "who cares?" attitude. Obviously, this is eternity we are talking about. If you don't like having to do something painful for a few moments, imagine what it's like to do somethig painful for eternity! Someone should care.

 

It is easy to take one's fate in one's own hands. At least then one can say, "I did my best. I tried my hardest. I can take care of myself."

 

It is much harder to say:

 

"I cannot do anything. Not a thing. I am worthless. I need help. Somebody has to save me."

 

Then, if that is the case, you owe Someone something. Suddenly you're not rising or falling on your own worth or feats anymore. Suddenly, your eternal destiny is out of your hands. Whether you go to torment or peace is not in your control.

 

That is scary.

 

It becomes even scarier if you CAN'T pay that Someone back. No matter what you do. It's a debt, and you can't ever earn enough.

 

And yet, you trust that the Debt-holder will have mercy anyway.

 

THAT is FAITH.

 

Faith is believing beyond all odds. It is nothing but hope. It is "I believe...because i believe!" You can't control it. You can't contain it. It is real.

 

This is why i follow my Lord. He loves me.

 

And then you say,

 

"When you say a God GIVE [sic] two (and ONLY TWO options) - worship Him by Jesus or be Damned - WHAT sort of God is that?"

 

Response:

 

First of all, we did not pick this. God did. Why? Here's why:

 

"Heaven", in both Judaism and Christianity, is not a PLACE. It is a Person. It is God Himself. That is why the Jews are so terrified of She'ol, and what makes She'ol a Hell: separation from God.

 

Hell is not fire and brimstone. It is separation. It is abandonment. As C.S. Lewis said,

 

"There are two kinds of people in this world. Those who say to God, 'Thy will be done', and those to whom God says, 'Fine--have it your own way!'"

 

Those that say to God, 'Thy will be done' want to live with Him, because they love Him. Those to whom God says, 'Have it your own way!' are those who hate Him, who don't recognize Him. So He lets them go. Where do they go? Away from Him. To separation. To Hell.

 

God sends people to Hell because He is merciful. Imagine coming up to a person you absolutely despise, and hear him say:

 

"Okay--you have to spend eternity with me!"

 

That isn't Heaven if you hate someone. That makes Heaven a Hell.

 

Finally, God did not make Hell for humans.

 

(Matthew 25:41)

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS."

 

Hell was made for Satan and his cohorts, not human beings.

 

Why then can people go to Hell?

 

If you hate God, He will not force you to stay with Him. And if you want nothing to do with Him, He will accept your choice and leave you alone.

 

Satan won't.

 

Satan doesn't care if you don't know about him, nor respect any of your choices. He wants to harm you. One of the best nonBiblical descriptions of him is:

 

"Imagine a weak, pathetic man living next to a Strong Man Whom he despises. This man may not be able to hurt the Strong Man, but he CAN kick the Strong Man's dog."

 

God loves you. Because of this, Satan can get no greater pleasure than hurting you, because by doing so he is hurting God.

 

Thus, although Satan knows that he and his cohorts are doomed, they try to mislead people, that they might bring God grief whenever He has to say, "I respect your decision. Go off and do things your own way."

 

And when you leave God's Presence, you go to Hell. Separation.

 

Now, then, what sort of God is that? He is the ultimate giver of Freedom. He gives you a choice--something the hindu gods don't ever do. No matter what, you HAVE to worship those gods.

 

What if i don't want to worship those gods? But i don't have a choice! They force me anyway. They enslave me. No matter what i do or how i do it, i still am serving them.

 

God lets me have a choice. Forced love is not love.

[Sephiroth 0]

Christians do have faith. It is easy to say things like:

"Living life is making the journey to God, whether we reach Him or not - it matters NOT."

 

It's much harder to say,

"It does matter. I could follow the wrong religion. If i'm wrong, i could burn in Hell forever. Torment."

 

A devil-may-care attitude is not faith. Faith is believing, believing strongly. A devil-may-care attitude is blindness.

 

Wrong ... one is embodiment of Free Will and another is embodiment of Slavery.

 

When you say I have a care-free attitude, you are wrong. I'm free from been bounded down by religions and useless doctrine. In my eyes, I have NO other masters but God. I bow to no man - like the pope, priest, parishs etc who says come in name of God do bind me down.

 

You other the otherhand are slave in EVERY way. You must believe (forcefully) to your priests, parishs, pope and bishops who you think comes in authority by God. When you want to make decision, you don't use common sense and free will, you go and refer to your Bible and try to make decision which sometimes, you doubt it yourself.

 

You are a Slave, I'm Free ... that is the diference between you and me. I can knelt down and pray anywhere I like and see fits to pray to God - same way as Abraham pray to God in the middle of the burning desert.

 

Religion talks about what will happen to you when you die.

 

No, true religions don't burden Man with what going to happen after you die. Because after you die, it is God's concern on where to put you. Only foolish religions will make its followers daydream about Heaven (like Christianity) or have nightmares about Hell (like Islam). God's religions only concentrate on what to do while you still alive.

 

Then, if that is the case, you owe Someone something. Suddenly you're not rising or falling on your own worth or feats anymore. Suddenly, your eternal destiny is out of your hands. Whether you go to torment or peace is not in your control.

 

THIS is why Christians are foolish and Damned. You simply don't care how you life. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Christians talk all they want on Holistic Lifestyle but when temptation comes, they fall easily to temptation and when questioned about it, they whine that some Devil made them do it. Muslims follow the same style also.

 

Hindus, Buddhist and Jews on the other hand, knows - good or evil is in your hands to decide. God gave everyone Free Will to choose and IF you end up in Hell after death, it is because you choose Evil over Good.

 

Faith is believing beyond all odds. It is nothing but hope. It is "I believe...because i believe!" You can't control it. You can't contain it. It is real.

This is why i follow my Lord. He loves me.

 

Sorry ... if you cannot find some sort of proof of your Lord, then what you believe is just imaginations and false belief. You believe because it is better to belief, not because your Lord exist.

 

"Heaven", in both Judaism and Christianity, is not a PLACE. It is a Person. It is God Himself. That is why the Jews are so terrified of She'ol, and what makes She'ol a Hell: separation from God.

 

Wrong ... Judaism NEVER said anything like God is Heaven. Judaism says God is Eternal - formless, shapeless and without any Seconds. By stating that Heaven is God, you are defining God to some place/conditions and that is against Judaism.

 

God lets me have a choice. Forced love is not love.

Any Love that has conditions in it IS Forced Love.

 

Christianity IS forced love because your God throw Adam and Eve and damned entire human race for the sins of this two.

 

Christianity IS forced love because he didn't forgive Adam, Eve and their descandants for ages. He then send Jesus as sacrifice for something he could have done easily (forgive the sin).

 

Christianity is forced love because those who question Jesus and reject him are damned.