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what can i do but to laugh at these ISCONites and those who believe in Godhead

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dear Mr.yasomatinandana

 

can anyone misinterpret more than u?

 

---

++so in this way you are putting sri shiva in a lower position.. lower than the position who give to him the gaudya/iskcon vaishnavas.

Vaishnavas think that shiva is an ABSOLUTE REALITY.. you think that he's a fake, a mere representation of the brahman

---

when i say Brahman is Shiva, how do i lower the position of shiva? look more carefully....u r ur parents son at the same time ur an employee at office and also ur wife's husband......now when i address u as a son of ur parents am i lowering ur position?or am i lowering ur position when i say that ur an employee of a company?

 

----

++my opinion is that your conception of god only impersonal is not sanatana dharma... hinduismmeans everything and the opposite of it, so it is surely possible to find your conception in hinduism

----

mmmm u make me think....what is sanatha dharma? how can hinduism mean everything and is also opposite of it?interesting......

do u know where the problem is? the problem is in understanding the meaning of words literally. a jnani would read inbetween the lines instead of just reading the lines....

 

i want to explain all ur fundamental doubts but iam getting tired of addressing every thing again and again....what i deny is not vishnu or shiva.....i deny our foolish act of fighting for supremacy of our belief....u see vishnu with a sudershana chakra and shiva with trishul....i see them as great concepts...i dont deny them, i only see their inner sense.....when shiva gave his left half to parvathi he just didnt become ardanarishwarar just for storeis....he showed a great concept that there is no man without woman and no woman without man....

 

i dont blame u....in bakthi there is no understanding....

never mind.....lets end this....

 

i just want to stress on one point.....follow ur sect....be happy but pls dont pull down other sects and religions....God is every were....God is truth and there is some or the other truth in every sect and religon....by claiming superiority ur trying to evaluate God for which we are not worth.........please stop this....we r all one....i love both vishnu and shiva....i love u all....ur not my enemy.....just that iam a saivite dosnt mean iam superior or that ur inferior and vice versa.....iam drained out of energy.....

 

let the day DAWN soon when God will clear this misunderstnadings, and the fight for superiority.....may be it will only DAWN when its the DUSK of the world and a new shrishty (creation) starts.............

 

O my beloved God why do men fight on ur name?why do they even go to this extent of killing each other?why do they show hatered amoung their own kin....?why dont they accept their differences and live in harmony?why dont they understand that ur the light which shines on every one equally with out any preference, even on the ones who dont accept u?why dont they understand that ur every where? that killing otheres is killing u.....O almighty answer my prayers...........if only we all live harmoniously and as kins will u turn this earth into living heaven..............i shall sincerly wait for that day...........

 

OM NAMA SHIVAYA = NAMO NARAYANA YA NAMAHA

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Hey Thiruvengadam,

 

Happy Tamil New Year!!!!

And where you are put up now man? I am in Bangalore hostel.Hmm came to office yesterday also and hence I did not celebrate as you did with homely affection,brahminical spirit of keeping that tradition.If you dont mind you give ur email and we may contact.Really I want to meet you once in my life time.

 

But yesterday in one reply to some other posting,I was hot on you.I am like that only and hence dont mind.Sila samayam ennaku kovam apdi varudhu.Enna panradhu.I thought you wont reply to this posting, but you did.

 

And come on Thiruvengadam,in this reply,you have not answered for my questions properly.

 

Take our piece of discussion:

 

I****************

We want liberation or mukthi, but it does not stop there for Vaishnavas.After liberation from cycle of birth and death,what is the exact state of soul?For us,the state of the soul is that of pure devotional service.So our end and means to attain the end is same viz Bhakthi.In this way it is indeed superior to other three paths mentioned by you.

----

kindly tell me in what way does vaisnavism differ from christianity except that in vaisnavism its vishnu and its jeasus in christianity and ofcourse some differences due to geographical changes..

 

 

****************

 

II:***************

---

And Bhakthi is not easy as it seems.It is simultaneosly easy,pleasant to practise way and also very tough to come into.Why you know?Because in entrance or gateway to devotional science stands one attitude "Bhagvat dasan" attitude.Here we have to renounce all our egos and purposeful sadhanas.After coming to Bhakthi,the only hold for us is Lord Narayana and nothing else.We become children in his hands,fully dependent on his mercy and surrendering everything to Him including our bad sense desires,desire for liberation and all.Thats what for Krishna calls everybody at the end of Gita "Sarvadharaman parthyajya maamekam sharanam vraja".Sarvadharaman -- all paths and religion we simply renounce and take refuge on that black cowherd boy who is a real thief to attract souls rapdily.

----

what is bakti? i will define it in a while....

 

----

 

***************

 

For two or three points you simply compared Vaishnavism to Christianity and ignored my genuine points where I meant a "Thyagam" attitude of a pure devotee to deny even mukthi.

 

We want to serve Narayana and thats what we want.We dont care for definition of Mukthi and all.Our goal is pure unalloyed devotion and you call by any name.We aspire only for Bhagavath Kaingaryam or Devotional service.

 

Foremost in this attitude are Periya Thiruvadi Sri Garuda and Seeriya Thiruvadi Bhaktha Hanuman.

That too,you see, this Periya Thiruvadi(Garuda) is always envious of siriya Thiruvadi Bhaktha Hanuman because Garuda wants to always be in the service of holding Maha Vishnu's lotus feet, but Seeriya Thiruvadi took away that service for one entire Rama Avatara period.

 

So as a mark of respect,for Maha Vishnu's Thiruvadi Mann or U Mark,Bhaktha Hanuman is holding the Kudai while Garuda the venjamaram.

 

And what to speak of this Bharathazwar? He is very clever that, while Hanuman is waiting in Kishkindha for Thiruvadi Kaingaryam,Bharathazwar took the Padhugai with the dust of the lotus feet of that Chakravarthi Thirumagan Sri Rama.And he already started the greatest Kaingaryam in Ayodhya with that divya Padhugas.

 

And see Meera Bai is refusing to bow down before Rajput King Family deity Kali and sings "hari charana dasi kyar kaar naapoji".And when given a poisonous cup of milk as a penalty for not worshipping Kali,she drinks and survives because Seshavadaram(adhi sesha) is protecting her.

 

Even hell we are ready to accept but we pray "my dear lord i must constantly remember,glorify your holy names and features as an eteranl dasan".

 

Lord Krishna in one sense abandoned Gopis,why you know?Every mode of devotion they enjoyed and the one remaining for which even Maha Lakshmi is aspiring,is the feeling of separation and crying for seeing the Lord.That one the great Gopis attained.

 

And Krishna send Uddhava to Gopis to learn the ABC of devotiona and inturn Uddhava after returning from Vrindavan said to Krishna "My dear Lord,it is simply great and you need not go to Vrindavan.Just leave them in that mad state and they have given another Gita superior than yours" and it is Uddhava Gita.

 

And see, this Periyazhwar is too much in ecstasy that he is sad because our Ranga Rajan or King of kings,whose lotus feet is very soft and already very mild and red in colour, went alone as a mere cowherd village boy,while so many Nithya surigal and Sriman thangigal were ready in Vaikundam to accompany the Lord.So he is singing

 

"AayargaLOdu pOi aanirai kaaththu

VEin kuzhal oothi viththaganaai ninRa

AayargaL ERRinai paadi para

Aanirai mEiththaanai paadi para

 

Very enjoyable,I will send to your email and you will surely enjoy and appreciate being open minded.

 

Great Thiruvengam,simply great and marvellous.Such a higher thing,such an ecstatsy,such a love,such a mildness,such a dasya bhavam,such a care & affection to our Lord, you are comparing with Christianity and "Bhakrithiku aadu vetra" Islam(epdi kathi sharpa irukanum aadu vetradhukunu, kuranla stepse iruku.kandravi enga poi mutikardhu ellam perumalku dhan velucham).

 

Namba sampradayam great pa.Chumma sollanumenu sollakudadhu.

 

And for all these higher thinking which is ready to even accept hell and do devotional service,you simply compared Vaishnavism to Christianity and escaped.Sirippa varudhu "ammavasakum abdhul kadharkum muduchu podara".

 

And in Vaishnavism so many nice things are there yaa not only crazy and crying Krishna,Krishna.

 

We do divya nama bhajan,read about that great actor Chakravarthi Thirumagan(Lord Rama) and so many what not.Alwar pasuram,meera bhajan,Panduranga mandali etc.

 

We have rich literature,rich tradition,strict discipline,humble attitude and love for all creatures.

 

On the contrary Christianity has only Bible.That too they are not following when Jesus opposed on veg by "Thou shall not kill".Please dont compare two mutually opposite things.

 

hey -- dont forget to give ur email so that let us discuss about our future contacts and friendship.Please...

 

Thankyou!!!

Hare Krishna!!!!

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hey buddy u have posted ur post twice due to enthusiasm....mail me at /mail id deleted/ and do u know that even iam in bangalore...?the chances of us meeting is very bright......so hurry up and send me a mail...

 

if u want a discussion in this post then here it is...

 

WHY didnt u send ur e-mail id in ur previous post so that instead of posting this post i would have mailed u directly u silly............

 

with luv

Thiru

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Hi,

 

What yaa? escaped from replying aa? hmm?....

 

hey juz give ur mobile no. na......i will dial now

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would any one want to give their personal phone number in a public forum?......i have 2 nice questions to ask in person.....i dont want to use the forum for that....

 

and the reason for not replying.....iam really very very tiered of typing for today....i replied more than 6 posts...

 

so can u please mail me....or else give me ur email id.....

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Dear T.reading some of your longer posts is not that easy.

Can you use another methode of separating your comments of the ones from others ? /images/graemlins/wink.gif Thnx!

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Posted Image

 

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who had many, many arms, first uprooted Hiranyakashipu's heart and then threw him aside and turned toward the demon's soldiers. These soldiers had come in thousands to fight with Him with raised weapons and were very faithful followers of Hiranyakashipu, but Lord Nrsimhadeva killed all of them merely with the ends of His nails.

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when i say Brahman is Shiva, how do i lower the position of shiva?

+++brahman is impersonal, no features, no qualities, no action, no relationship.... if you say that shiva is brahman you are negating his existence as a real distinct entity. So how can you have problems with vaishnavas who think that he's a topmost devotee and deity?

 

now when i address u as a son of ur parents am i lowering ur position?

+++you are lowring my position if you state that my existence as a separare life, individual, is fake.. illusory

 

.what i deny is not vishnu or shiva.....i deny our foolish act of fighting for supremacy of our belief....

+++so how can you solve such problems cutting out all qualities, all real existence of deities? if you have two son quarrelling each other you give some ijection and you put them in coma?

 

belief....u see vishnu with a sudershana chakra and shiva with trishul....i see them as great concepts...

+++i knew perfectly it... concepts, not realities.. that's your way to find impartiality

 

i dont blame u....in bakthi there is no understanding....

+++you'll be surprised by the fact that i understand your position very well

 

O my beloved God

+++where is your love if you consider Him a mere concept??

 

OM NAMA SHIVAYA = NAMO NARAYANA YA NAMAHA

++++pray and blasphemy simultaneously?

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-------OM NAMA SHIVAYA = NAMO NARAYANA YA NAMAHA

++++pray and blasphemy simultaneously? ----------

 

 

Why is this what you claimit to be?

 

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you do not inderstand or i have explained badly

 

the simultaneous blasphemy and praise is to say that shiva and narayana are only concepts (mental concepts.. !) and simultaneously address them respectifully at the end of the message..

 

like:

 

guest does not exist.. he is a concept! jaya guest!

 

sri shiva ki jaya, sri vishnu ki jaya

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a lot better word for "iskconite" is Hare Krishna or HK.

Please use it instead of "iskconite."

 

A few months ago I have posted an article - Hindus and HKs.

please read it and re-post it if you like it.

 

i do have some disagreements with HK's,

but i consider them hindus (and they do not like it)

simply because they worship krishna.

 

my above article discusses all about it.

 

they are organized to spread krishna bhakti.

we hindus need to organize and act globally

in the best interest of our dharma and the vedic culture.

 

the need is to argue with the anti-vedic forces than with the HKs, becaue Hks are vedic people.

any debate with Hks is our hindu-internal matter,

and should be done with respect in my view.

 

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what can i do but to laugh at these ISCONites and those who believe in Godhead

 

****So please laugh. That is a nice starting point of egoless humility and humbleness

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a lot better word for "iskconite" is Hare Krishna or HK.

----iskcon is one of the gaudya vaishnava "maths". hare Krsna is more precisely related to all gaudyas and not only to iskcon (no envy or rivalry, but only precision), BUt there's no problem the "iskcon" acronym means definitely "society of krsna consciousness" or "bhakti sanga".. so every devotee of krsna is, in this sense iskconite...

 

i consider them hindus (and they do not like it)

---classifications are not necessary for spiritual life, but if they are required by someone, it is better to apply them with precision. And hinduism is not a precise classification, because it seems that everyone is hindu only if he's indian and he's not muslim or christian without any specific common and distinctive philosophy or principle

 

 

they are organized to spread krishna bhakti.

--that is not national or sectarian and that does not requires to be accepted having to call ourselves in one way or another.

 

any debate with Hks is our hindu-internal matter,

--it is simply useless. A spiritualist defends who is offended everywhere and everytime, not that he defends respectively hindus or christians or muslims because someone had the idea to put him in such useless classifications

 

i know shiva worship, krsna worship, durga worship, sarasvati worship, jagannath worship, chaitanya worship, brahma worship, brahman worship, guru worship, lingam worship and so on....

 

what's hindu worship?

 

who's this deity called "hindu"?

 

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*******i know shiva worship, krsna worship, durga worship, sarasvati worship, jagannath worship, chaitanya worship, brahma worship, brahman worship, guru worship, lingam worship and so on....

what's hindu worship?

 

who's this deity called "hindu"?******

 

There is no single diety called "Hindu". Infact hinduism is a religion followed by worshippers of all the aforesaid deities, including krishna.

 

The word Hindu may be new, but the system of religion called Sanatan Dharma, which is now called hinduism is eternal.

 

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the proiblem is to state that hinduism is entirely and simply the vedic worship of all the deities, or that there's many concocted theories and cults who are not really belonging to sanatana dharma

 

we can speak of false gurus and fake gods who very easily are considered hindu.. and we can speak also of the corruption of many devas worship in something material and the impersonal positions in nihilism (=mayavadism)

 

(of course everyone will have his version of what's corruption and what's dharma)

 

so the problem of the identification in hinduism is more in corruption, or the real adherence with the sanatana dharma, than in variety

 

variety is an eternal feature of the dharma and demostrates the greatness of the lord

 

but, for example, sai baba or the new kalkis and some "revered" hindu masters of the past century are called hindu, but they're adharmic

 

so, to present ourselves to the public (all AUTHENTIC cults,, not only vaishnavism), to give some advantage giving transcendental knowledge, it is not necessary to use the definition hinduism, who, it is not my fault, and i am sorry of it, is corrupted by the presence of many cheaters and god blasphemers

 

everything to avoid useless confusion

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Hare Krishna.

 

In the Srimmad Bhagavatam and other scriptures we find that demigods were worshiped in the past with the intention to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vishnu. E.g. one Ganesha worshiper pleased so much Lord Jagganath that Jagannath turned Himself into the form of Ganesha.

 

But anyway, the question here is, how is the demigod worship pleasing to the Supreme Lord Sri Krishna? And how is it possible that in the past people could attain Vaikuntha by demigod worship? It is because the demigods were worshipped as the devotees of Lord Vishnu. Lord Vishnu likes His devotees to be glorified. Moreover, when the devotees i.e. the demigods were pleased they gave mercy to the worshipper to safely continue his devotional life Vishnu bhakti, and at the and of life they direct the soul throughout the universe back to the spiritual world, Vaikuntha.

 

Now, In this age of Kali yuga people became very materialistic and they separated the worship of demigods from Vishnu worship. They don't see anymore the demigods as the devotees of Lord Vishnu but as separate deities that can fulfil material desires. Krishna in the Bhagavat gita say that foolish people, become devotees of demigods. This has been pointed out and criticized by Lord Krishna in Bhagavad-gita (7.20): kamais tais tair hrita Jnana prapadyante ’nya-devatah. Those who are not devotees of Krishna have a taste for women, wine and so forth, and therefore they have been described as hrita jnana, bereft of sense. The other reason why is somebody hrita jnana is because of thinking that the demigods are independent of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and equal to Him. All in all, nowadays people worship demigods for material prosperity and not for the sake of pleasing the Supreme Lord Sri Krishna or Vishnu.

 

Anyway, to worship demigods with the perverted materialistic mentality will result in further bondage of the soul in this material world - samsar. Therefor, it is recommended that the only process to attain spiritual success in this Kali yuga is Harinama sankirtana yajna by which all the demigods can also be pleased and not only Bhagavan Sri Krishna.

 

Please chant Hare Krishna and be happy.

 

Nitai

 

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do u think Prabupat (sorry for mis spelling his name) whould have attained mukti? certainly not....even for the vaishnavas its a great sin to talk ill about shiva as for them shiva is a greatest vaishnavite.....and the beauty is that i dont see a single shivaite talking ill about vishnu...do u think there is any difference between these ISCONits, the krishna Godhead believers and Islam/christianity?

If the ISCON talks about other sect gurus as demons(i have see few ISCONites say this so dont ask me for proof-search through teh form and u will find many)who preach false principles then who is prabupat? i feel ashamed of myself for talikng bad about gurus (no matter whether they r right or wrong) but they act of these Krishna godhead people have infuriated me to this extent....i will definitely try to control myself in the future.....

 

ISCON is a shame to Hinduism....no wonder the Indian government didnt accept it as a sect of hinduism...for one i do like the Indian gov....

 

God is one-He is Brahman- if u dont believe it no probs u will be given another life and another life and another life....atlast u will belive and when u believe u will be shocked to know that all these lives God had been in u, only that u refused to see Him......

 

 

Stop Rascaldom and all nonsense. I know what u r upto and who u r. You will go to hell for this and will be doomed for offending a Pure devotee of the lord.In the beginning u offended Krsnan Sir, now Prabhupada

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