Jump to content
IndiaDivine.org
Sign in to follow this  
Guest guest

Who is Greater? Shiva or Vishnu?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

The Vedas, however, testify one by one that neither Brahma nor Vishnu, but Shiva is supreme. As the two stand in disbelief, a huge column of fire splits the earth between them and blazes up through the sky to pierce the highest heavens. Astounded, Brahma and Vishnu decide to determine the source and extent of this brilliant pillar of light. Vishnu becomes a boar and burrows deep into the netherworlds. Brahma mounts his goose and flies as far up as the heavens reach. But even after thousands of years they cannot find the bottom or the top of the shaft of light. When they have returned to their starting place, Shiva emerges from the light in his “partial” bodily form.

 

http://www.atributetohinduism.com/Symbolism_in_Hinduism#Trimurti (Lord Brahma, Lord Vishnu & Lord Shiva)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

{The Vedas, however, testify one by one that neither Brahma nor Vishnu, but Shiva is supreme.}

 

That story is from a Purana and is not from the Vedas. Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are three aspects of God through creation, preservation and destruction. All are manifestations of Brahman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

u see...to destory something,u need to have full rights on it....rite??u can destroy something which is not urs...so Shiva is the destoryer here,thus this makes him the One & only God behind everything,Everything is his & neither Brahman or Vishnu can destory the world/wut so eva but only Shiva can...coz He owns everything,he can destory them.

 

im speaking by ur standards..but if u think it as a wise & mature thinking man...All God are One...Brahman,Vishnu,Shiva all are 1,none can work perfectly if One is missing...We need all of Them to have a perfect life....so respect & love everyone..i know Shiva devotees does that..but Vishnu Devotees??not sure...they r busy telling everyone Vishnu is the Main Godhead! i bet even Vishnu doesnt like what u r doing....Love Hindu as it is...

 

Om Namah Shivaya...Shivaya Namah Om!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

u see...to destory something,u need to have full rights on it....rite??u CANT destroy something which is not urs...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest1,ur so right,ive always noticed Vishnu devotees be very one sided in their observations,especially these hare krishna people saying all gods are inferior compared to Krishna,they make vishnu look so mean and arrogant by their verses,whereas Shiva devotees have always been the kind and considerate,it seems the truth is hidden somewhere and we are all debating with these man made stories and verses,but i too feel Shiva is kinder as he is the only god who grants any wish the devotee asks without worrying about the repurcursions..and as u said all 3 are needed and no one might be inferior to the other..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

{Everything is his & neither Brahman or Vishnu can destory the world}

 

I said Brahma, meaning Lord Brahma the creator, which is not Brahman but the aspect of Brahman when engrossed in creation. Just like Vishnu is the aspect for preservation and sustainence and Shiva is the aspect in destruction and regeneration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

How come in all stories the shaivaites glorify shiva and immediately the vaishnavaites add a line saying all these glories came under the mercy of Vishnu.like the Rudra power shiva had when he swallowed the poison..y not vishnu do it himself.

Also dont vaishnavaites know the story in which vishnu and brahma out of sheer EGO couldnt find the shiva lingas lenght...then how can be vishnu powerful than shiva?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

As far as basmasoora episode..shiva gave the demon the power out of love and he didnt run to vishnu.vishnu came to help him..its like u run to ur boss rescue to save the company..that doesnt make u bigger than ur boss.

If shiva wanted he wouldnt have given the power to demon,but he gave out of love..vishnu wouldnt have,cause he doesnt bless anyone like shiva does..he just kills demons who got power from shiva..he fights so hard and takes help from all angels to kill them....shivas kindness cant be taken as weakness..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Brahma represent the first phase, the phase of celibacy and studentship (brahmacharya) where knowledge or study is the main pursuit of the individual. Knowledge (goddess Saraswathi) is his constant companion during this phase.

 

Lord Vishnu represents the second phase, that is the phase of the householder and adulthood during which the individual fulfills his religious and family obligations, helps the poor and the needy and works for the preservation of his family and community. During this phase wealth (goddess Lakshmi) is his constant companion without which he cannot perform his responsibilities well.

 

Lord Shiva represents the old age, or the third phase called Vanaprasthashrama (life of renunciation) during which he renounces his worldly life, goes to a forest and spends his life there along with his wife. Like Lord Shiva he leads a homeless life with meager belongings and without any attachment in pursuit of true knowledge.

 

****In the final phase called sanyasasrama dharma, he becomes Iswara himself ! During this phase he renounces life altogether and tries to attain liberation from this mortal world. He destroys all his previous attachments and desires and engages himself in deep meditation, leading the life of a true renunciate along with his wife who as his consort becomes the Universal Mother. Thus the three phases of life represented by the trinity ends in One representing the fact that in the they are one and the same Iswara.*****

 

They also represent the three fundamental gunas as described in the Bhagavad-Gita, namely rajas, sattva and tamas. Brahma represents rajas, Vishnu represents sattva and Shiva represents tamas.

 

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/trinity.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

 

The Vedas, however, testify one by one that neither Brahma nor Vishnu, but Shiva is supreme. As the two stand in disbelief, a huge column of fire splits the earth between them and blazes up through the sky to pierce the highest heavens. Astounded, Brahma and Vishnu decide to determine the source and extent of this brilliant pillar of light. Vishnu becomes a boar and burrows deep into the netherworlds. Brahma mounts his goose and flies as far up as the heavens reach. But even after thousands of years they cannot find the bottom or the top of the shaft of light. When they have returned to their starting place, Shiva emerges from the light in his “partial” bodily form.

 

 

This is a bogus story from Tamasika puranas like linga purana and Kurma purana. They are Tamasik since they contradict Vedas.

 

In Shatapatha Brahmana it is clearly mentiones that Rudra is a Jiva.

 

Bhootanam ca Prajapatis samvatsaraya dikshitah | Bhootanam pathir gruhapathir aaseet |

Usha Patni | …………….. bhootanam pathis samvatsara ushasi rodho(a)sinchat | Samvatsare kumaro jayatha | sorodheeth | tam prajapathirabraveet | kumara kim rodhishi | yachhramath tapasodhi jathoseethi | so(a)braveet anapahatapapma vaa ahamanahithanama | nama me dehi paapno(a)pahatya iti | tam punah prajapathi braveet | rudro(a)seethi | ……….. rudropavachcharva isanah pathir bhima ugra iti sapta namani |

 

"The pati of bhoota and praja, Brahma deva, underwent diksha for one year. He was a Grihasta. His wife was Usha. …….. Brahma deva let his veerya ( ‘rodho(a)sinchat’) to Usha. In a year, a son was born. The son cried. Brahma asked him, “ Son! Why are u crying. I got u as child after tough tapasya. The son said, “ I am not cleansed of sins. To wipe out my sins give me names. Brahma again told him, “ Let your name be Rudra.” …….. Rudra, charva, isana, pathi(pasupathi), bhima, UGRA – these seven names (were given by Brahma deva)"

 

 

also the 17th mantra of Purusha Sukta says,Data(BrahmaDeva) meditated upon the Purusha. Indra(Sakra), the Brahman knower and also the devatas of the eight directions(pradishaschatasrah)(also meditated). ONLY BY KNOWING HIM CAN ONE ATTAIN MOKSHA AND THERE IS NO OTHER WAY/KNOWLEDGE."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

 

As far as basmasoora episode..shiva gave the demon the power out of love and he didnt run to vishnu.vishnu came to help him..its like u run to ur boss rescue to save the company..that doesnt make u bigger than ur boss.

If shiva wanted he wouldnt have given the power to demon,but he gave out of love..vishnu wouldnt have,cause he doesnt bless anyone like shiva does..he just kills demons who got power from shiva..he fights so hard and takes help from all angels to kill them....shivas kindness cant be taken as weakness..

 

 

Read Skanda Purana. It says Lord Shiva worshipped Visnu to help him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

 

How come in all stories the shaivaites glorify shiva and immediately the vaishnavaites add a line saying all these glories came under the mercy of Vishnu.like the Rudra power shiva had when he swallowed the poison..y not vishnu do it himself.

 

 

Rudra swallowed only small part of Visha. Major portion was swallowed by Vayu as evident from Rig Veda.

 

"vAyurasmA upAmanthat.h pinashhTismA kunannamA |

keshI vishhasya pAtreNa yad.hrudreNApibat.hsaha ||"

 

vAyuH = Vayu; asmA = asmai = for him (for Shiva);

upAmanthat.h = squeezed well (that poison); pinashhTismA =

kneaded and crushed; kunannamA = evil punisher (vAyu);

keshI = who has the Lord's sannidhAna; vishhasya pAtreNa =

with the vessel full of poison; yad.h = which; rudreNa saha =along with Rudra; apibat.h = drank.

 

Vayu squeezed, kneaded and crushed [a small portion] of the

poison for Shiva and drank the poison along with Shiva.

 

rudreNa saha = along with Rudra. So Vayu is the main consumer of the poison. Rudra is a secondary participant.

Vayu drank the fully potent poison, but gave the crushed

and weakened small portion of the poison to Shiva.

 

 

Also dont vaishnavaites know the story in which vishnu and brahma out of sheer EGO couldnt find the shiva lingas lenght...then how can be vishnu powerful than shiva?

 

 

This is a bogus story that contradicts with Vedas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

According to Buddhist scriptures(what Buddha had said),

Lord Shiva is the greatest. He is the Lord of the three world. He has the great power to know the number of raindrops of the three world in no time. Lord Vishnu is a great general of the heavenly region, maintaining the balance of the three world. However, after uncountable years or yuga, their lives will end and both will go into reincarnations again just like you and I. All those great siddhas or saints will also fall down and reincarnate again.

In India, there are lots of false belief that mislead people. In all scriptures, all the gods are immortal, every god is an incarnation of another god. People with some small siddhis will be considered great guru or saints. those Indian people never know in our present time, lots of asuras and devils will be born to thse world and used thir siddhis to mislead people.... sigh. And in India, people still fighting for whose god is the greatest..... sigh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(Rudra swallowed only small part of Visha. Major portion was swallowed by Vayu as evident from Rig Veda.)

 

Question was why did Vishnu not do it himself. But then we are not here to answer question are we? We only want the superiority contest.

 

 

"vAyurasmA upAmanthat.h pinashhTismA kunannamA |

keshI vishhasya pAtreNa yad.hrudreNApibat.hsaha ||"

 

vAyuH = Vayu; asmA = asmai = for him (for Shiva);

upAmanthat.h = squeezed well (that poison); pinashhTismA =

kneaded and crushed; kunannamA = evil punisher (vAyu);

keshI = who has the Lord's sannidhAna; vishhasya pAtreNa =

with the vessel full of poison; yad.h = which; rudreNa saha =along with Rudra; apibat.h = drank.

 

 

Re

(Vayu squeezed, kneaded and crushed [a small portion] of the

poison for Shiva and drank the poison along with Shiva.)

 

Where does it say small portion?

Was the poision solid form that needed kneaded and crushed?

Has vayu anything to do with marut in this instance, I say this because it would make sense the son would be ever so willing to help their father

I do know there is a difference between marut and vayu but then Hanuman is adressed as maruti nandan as well as vayu putra so there is also non difference it seems.

 

Re

(rudreNa saha = along with Rudra. So Vayu is the main consumer of the poison. Rudra is a secondary participant.

Vayu drank the fully potent poison, but gave the crushed

and weakened small portion of the poison to Shiva.)

 

Why are you trying to mislead where does it say Vayu drank the potent poison? Where is the quantity mentioned?

If I say I went to dinner along with my friends does this follow I am the main person who eat or eat the most?

Why are you trying to denigrate Lord Shiva?

In Bhagvat puran which is known as Amala i.e. pure, the story mentions no reference to Vayu.

Before you say if it contradicts Veda we have to reject it then you will have to tell me Vyas deva did not know Vedas.

 

 

Re

(This is a bogus story that contradicts with Vedas)

 

You can not hide behind Vedas when ever certain story does not make sense to us, and there are many such stories, nothing happens without his sanction so all those stories although at times very difficult to understand has may be very deep rooted meaning that we simply do not understand.

 

Re

(keshI = who has the Lord's sannidhAna; )

 

who does this refer to?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

("vAyurasmA upAmanthat.h pinashhTismA kunannamA |

keshI vishhasya pAtreNa yad.hrudreNApibat.hsaha ||")

 

can some one verify this rig 10.136.7

i have searched two sites non of them mentions (posion) Vishhasya.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

 

Question was why did Vishnu not do it himself. But then we are not here to answer question are we? We only want the superiority contest.

 

 

It doesw not matter. Rudra is shown here to be lesser Deity than Vayu.

 

 

Where does it say small portion?

Was the poision solid form that needed kneaded and crushed?

Has vayu anything to do with marut in this instance, I say this because it would make sense the son would be ever so willing to help their father

I do know there is a difference between marut and vayu but then Hanuman is adressed as maruti nandan as well as vayu putra so there is also non difference it seems.

 

 

This Vayu is MukhyaPrana, called as Sutra that connects all living beings in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad.

 

It can be seen from the statement "Rudrena Saha" that Rudra was merely a side participant and not the main one like Vayu. Thus Rudra was given only a small portion.

 

In ths Sruti by the use of the word "Saha" it is confirmed that Vayu is the main drinker of Poison(Visha).

 

 

You can not hide behind Vedas when ever certain story does not make sense to us, and there are many such stories, nothing happens without his sanction so all those stories although at times very difficult to understand has may be very deep rooted meaning that we simply do not understand.

 

 

There are no hdden meanings. Padma Purana clearly states that one who follows Tamasa Puranas go to Tamas.

 

Anything thatcontradicts Vedas is of no worth ultimately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

 

Re

(keshI = who has the Lord's sannidhAna; )

 

who does this refer to?

 

 

KeshI refers to Mukhyaprana. In temples before installing any Deity we do Prana Prathistana. Why ?

 

This is because Mukhyaprana, who is Sutra ie the thread that connects all living being, is present in all living beings. It is this Mukhyaprana that is the Sannithana(residing place) for Paramatma(Narayana or Visnu).

 

In any temple Deity, Visnu is requested to manifest in the stone deities along with Mukhyaprana always. This is referred to as Pranaprathitana.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jai Ganesh

 

Thank you, yes this is one of the site i refered too.this is titled HYMN CXXXVI. Kesins.meaning hair the Lock. here it is.

keśyaghniṃ keśī viṣaṃ keśī bibharti rodasī |

keśīviśvaṃ svardṛśe keśīdaṃ jyotirucyate ||

munayo vātaraśanāḥ piśaṅghā vasate malā |

vātasyānudhrājiṃ yanti yad devāso avikṣata ||

unmaditā mauneyana vātānā tasthimā vayam |

śarīredasmākaṃ yūyaṃ martāso abhi paśyatha ||

antarikṣeṇa patati viśvā rūpāvacākaśat |

munirdevasya-devasya saukṛtyāya sakhā hitaḥ ||

vātasyāśvo vāyoḥ sakhātho deveṣito muniḥ |

ubhausamudrāvā kṣeti yaśca pūrva utāparaḥ ||

apsarasāṃ ghandharvāṇāṃ mṛghāṇāṃ caraṇe caran |

keśīketasya vidvān sakhā svādurmadintamaḥ ||

vāyurasmā upāmanthat pinaṣṭi smā kunannamā |

keśīviṣasya pātreṇa yad rudreṇāpibat saha ||

 

 

1. HE with the long loose locks supports Agni, and moisture, heaven, and earth:

He is all sky to look upon: he with long hair is called this light.

2 The Munis, girdled with the wind, wear garments soiled of yellow hue.

They, following the wind's swift course go where the Gods have gone before.

3 Transported with our Munihood we have pressed on into the winds:

You therefore, mortal men. behold our natural bodies and no more.

4 The Muni, made associate in the holy work of every God,

Looking upon all varied forms flies through the region of the air.

5 The Steed of Vata, Vayu's friend, the Muni, by the Gods impelled,

In both the oceans hath his home, in eastern and in western sea.

6 Treading the path of sylvan beasts, Gandharvas, and Apsarases,

He with long locks, who knows the wish, is a sweet most delightful friend

7 Vayu hath churned for him: for him he poundeth things most hard to bend,

When he with long loose locks hath drunk, with Rudra, water from the cup.

 

 

There is no mention of posion in this translation.

 

this is the reason i need clarification.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

 

There is no mention of posion in this translation.

 

this is the reason i need clarification.

 

 

The guy who translated does not know what he translated. Instead you can see in sanskrit sloka in figuring the meaning.

 

See the sanskrit words in bold.

 

vAyurasmA upAmanthat.h pinashhTismA kunannamA |

keshI vishhasya pAtreNa yad.hrudreNApibat.hsaha ||

 

vishhasya - Possessive form of word Visha

 

Visha - means poison (this is very clear to anyone) and not water

 

pAtreNa - Vessel

 

So vishhasya pAtreNa means "Vessel of poison".

 

This is clear reference to Samudra Mandharana.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jai Ganesh

 

Thanks i can see in your sloka, but i am noy satisfied

you have this keshI vishhasya

 

in sacraed text the word is split as kesivi asya

bearing in mind the hymn is about HYMN CXXXVI. Kesins.

i am more inclined to go with later translation

 

i am curious to read the sanskrit.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

 

n sacraed text the word is split as kesivi asya

 

 

I have not seen nonsense like this anywhere, but from ignoramus like you.

 

1. There is no such word in sanskrit as Kesivi

2. The website(sacred text) does not split the word at all.

 

I cannot frankly answer bull @#$$# like this.

 

May be you should install sanskrit font to view in Devnagiri script.

 

The sacred text website first gives the verses in Devnagiri script, followed by Roman script.

 

If you did not install the FONT and think the word was split it is your ignorance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jai Ganesh

 

 

Re

(It doesw not matter. Rudra is shown here to be lesser Deity than Vayu.)

 

Not so fast, read the verse before

 

6 Treading the path of sylvan beasts, Gandharvas, and Apsarases,

He with long locks, who knows the wish, is a sweet most delightful friend

 

One, who is described here as most delightful friend, makes no sense to be described as lesser than Vayu in the next (only in someone’s misguided opinion). I am not even sure the next verse has anything to do with poison.

 

 

Re

(This Vayu is MukhyaPrana, called as Sutra that connects all living beings in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad. )

 

So what, the Mukhya pran help lord Shiva ? or is it the personality Vayu his friend or Marut?

 

Re

(It can be seen from the statement "Rudrena Saha" that Rudra was merely a side participant and not the main one like Vayu. Thus Rudra was given only a small portion. )

 

If you read all of rig 10.136 1-7 your stand has very little credence nor does it mention small portion or week portion as you suggested. It is pure speculation, Bhagvat puran does not support your imegination either.

 

Re

(In ths Sruti by the use of the word "Saha" it is confirmed that Vayu is the main drinker of Poison(Visha).)

 

By whose standard? Since to me the translation need clarification and to my understanding the word saha, means together or along with, can in no way indicate main participant.

 

 

Re

(There are no hdden meanings. Padma Purana clearly states that one who follows Tamasa Puranas go to Tamas.)

 

Nice to know you understand every thing. I will gladly go to Tamas, after all it is from tamas we ask to go to jyotir.

 

Re

(Anything thatcontradicts Vedas is of no worth ultimately. )

 

Since vedas proclaim neti, neti neti what you say is neti

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jai Ganesh

 

 

Re

(I have not seen nonsense like this anywhere, but from ignoramus like you.

1. There is no such word in sanskrit as Kesivi

2. The website(sacred text) does not split the word at all.

 

I cannot frankly answer bull @#$$# like this.

 

May be you should install sanskrit font to view in Devnagiri script.

 

The sacred text website first gives the verses in Devnagiri script, followed by Roman script.

 

If you did not install the FONT and think the word was split it is your ignorance. )

 

 

Well what can i say.i am not going to stoop to your level. If you had learnt anything from Vedas it sure is not what i want to learn. in case you did not notice i did say i wanted to see the sanskrit but hey ignorance also comes in many forms.

 

bye

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...