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Truth Hurts

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Maya rules until dissolution of sense of agency.

 

*********It's funny to watch all of Mr. Govindaram's posts . The hk's 'arguments' are quite entertaining.**********

 

 

Lord controls Maya also. He destroyed his own Yadu vansha.

 

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You say to gusetttttt:

 

Go back and see the nectar that is in Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. www.vedabase.net

 

 

But above you have also said Shri Ramanuja's interpretation of Gita is perfect.

 

 

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*************** You are trying to say 'Krishna within' is talking. **************

 

Please show me where I have said or implied it.

The CONDITIONED CIDAKASHA (the "mind") talks, thinks, does karma etc., thinking it is doing all things and appropriates all fruits – bad or good.

 

But wherefrom the conditioned mind arose if not from the infinite, omniscient, omnipotent CIDAKASHA? And who conditioned the infinite, omniscient, omnipotent CIDAKASHA? Definitely Govindramji has no such power to condition the infinite CID?

 

So, the ultimate agency is the infinite CID.

 

 

**************Mahesvara means Supersoul who is within everybodies Heart. Krishna says in Gita all though He is spread throughout the creation still He is situated as one.***********

 

*****************Bg.9.4

By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them.

 

In other words consciousness is not the same. My consciousness cannot pervade yours. We are all individual:**********************

 

 

Yes, I agree that Mahesvara means Supersoul who is within every Heart.

 

And I also agree to “My consciousness cannot pervade yours”. Yes, your consciousness is at present bound within the body. It is conditioned to think “I am this”.

 

But, sometimes do you not feel sad or elated without any apparent reason? That is said to be the play of Gunas. Without your knowing it, external influences affect you; sometimes very severely. This is an indirect evidence of Sutratma – all pervasive Bhava – consciousness.

 

But rare sages who successfully overcome the Maya of conditioning and overcome the Gunas teach us that the Bhava is one and is not divided. Lord has also taught us the same in Gita.

 

 

 

***************** We would think Krishna is everywhere so we must be God? ***********************

 

No sane person thinks "we are God"? That is your interpretation which you repeat again and again.

If any advaitin thinks this way he is Maya bound.

 

When the sense of agency really vanishes then how can one proclaim “I am God”. And till sense of agency is not gone one is still Maya bound.

 

God is endowed with power of Creation, Maintenance, and Destruction. Advaita (or Brahma Sutras) do not say that one who realizes the Self can bestow on himself those powers.

 

 

On the other hand, one who realizes the Self, becomes desire less seer and but not an actor. Everything happens in his presence but He does nothing. And this is Sat-Chit-Ananda who never returns.

 

 

If such a person acquires a desire to Create, Maintain, or Destroy (or in short wants to become God), He loses contact with Brahman and comes back.

 

 

*****************Bg.9.5

And yet everything that is created does not rest in Me. Behold My mystic opulence! Although I am the maintainer of all living entities, and although I am everywhere, still My Self is the very source of creation.

 

------------ So to mundane scholars with no devotion this verse can be interpretated in many ways. Only devotees who are imbued with love for Krishna without any tinge of Impersonal or Mayavadi.. You may ask why? Read the verse again its for our benefit.**********************

 

Yes this verse can be interpreted in several ways according to the spiritual level of the devotee.

 

Now your spiritual level is not very encouraging to say the least. You say Ramanuja Gita is perfect but advice others to read another. You say Vaishnavas are not Hindus. You call others fools, narrow minded persons etc. You proclaim that Yamaraja will take care of people who oppose you. You declare that others are full of egos.

 

Are you sure, you have equal love for everyone as Lord requires one to have?

 

You please read the above verse again and again. Questions will arise in your mind and they will illumine sometime.

 

 

 

 

Sincerely, if you win I will win.

 

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********what is in gita is hinduism.

no hindu would deny it.************

 

Absolutely correct. But except a few who do not know that Gita is the essence of the Vedas.

 

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Now your spiritual level is not very encouraging to say the least. You say Ramanuja Gita is perfect but advice others to read another. You say Vaishnavas are not Hindus. You call others fools, narrow minded persons etc. You proclaim that Yamaraja will take care of people who oppose you. You declare that others are full of egos

 

 

 

 

You read Gita according to your BONA_FIDE Sampradaya. I only called you a fool. Because you are one. Claiming Supremacy over the Intrepretation of the Bhagavad-Gita, you do not realize the Eternal Truth of the devotees, they still walk this Earth while you praise past Archaryas you neglect the Vaishnava's who are here now. Anyway..

 

I have to go, I said all I wanted to. Until another day.

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*******I only called you a fool. Because you are one.********

 

I am happy that you call me a fool. Tamas is evident.

 

 

 

 

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Lord Krishna explains field, knower of the field and the one to be known in Chapter 13.

 

Body is described as the field in all its modification. He states in 13.2 that He himself is the knower of field in all fields.

 

 

While describing "one who has to be known" to obtain liberation He states the following:

 

 

13.13 Jneyam yattat pravakshyaami yajjnaatwaa’mritamashnute;

Anaadimatparam brahma na sattannaasaduchyate.

 

 

SP translation

 

I shall now explain the knowable, knowing which you will taste the eternal. Brahman, the spirit, beginningless and subordinate to Me, lies beyond the cause and effect of this material world. (13.13)

 

 

Now SP has introced a phrase “subordinate to me”, while describing the eternal. spirit, beginning less. Brahman.

 

 

 

Now I quote five other translations of the same verse

 

 

Dr. Prasad

 

I shall fully describe the object of knowledge. By knowing this one attains immortality. The beginningless Supreme Being is said to be neither eternal, nor temporal.

 

Dr. Radhakrishnan

 

 

I will describe that which is to be known and by knowing which life eternal is gained. It is the supreme Brahman who beginningless and who is said to be neither existent nor non-existent.

 

 

Swami Sivananda

I will declare that which has to be known, knowing which one attains to immortality, the beginningless supreme Brahman, called neither being nor non-being.

 

Swami Gambhiranand

I shall speak of that which is to be known, by realizing which one obtains Immortality. The supreme Brahman is without any beginning. That is neither called being or non-being. (13.12)

 

 

End of citation

 

No other translates “anadimatparam” as subordinate to me. And Lord Krishna has already described himself as the knower of field in all fields. And He says by knowing the “one to be known” only a sage obtains immortality.

 

So, why SP inserts the “subordinate to me”?

 

 

In the sane chapter at 13.23, Lord Krishna further describes final knowable:

 

13.23 Upadrashtaanumantaa cha bhartaa bhoktaa maheshwarah;

Paramaatmeti chaapyukto dehe’smin purushah parah.

13.23. The Supreme Soul in this body is also called the spectator, the permitter, the supporter, the enjoyer, the great Mahesvara and the Supreme Self.

 

 

I understand why SP inserts the “subordinate to me”? Delusion forces people to alter scriptures. But Vedas and Puranas state that such persons will be forced to submit.

 

 

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So, why SP inserts the "subordinate to me"?

 

 

Impersonal aspect of Krishna also called Brahmajyoti is subordinate. Therefore establishing Krishna as the overseer of His own energy. Impersonalists claim this is 'higher' than Krishna, Krishna states:

 

I shall now explain the knowable, knowing which you will taste the eternal. Brahman, the spirit, beginningless and subordinate to Me, lies beyond the cause and effect of this material world.

 

Krishna in this chapter explains about Impersonal aspect. {among other things}. I am frankly bored of your constant crying of some apparant mistranslation. And a little annoyed. Who are these devotees Translation of Gita you read and what are they saying? I don't tend to read Translations which are neither here nor there. Maybe you can do the same, in fact since by birth I have only read Gita: http://bhagavadgitaasitis.com/en1

 

Nitai-gaura haribol

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Anadimatparam is not "subordinate to me".

 

SP translations have lost their validity.

 

********** am frankly bored of your constant crying of some apparant mistranslation. And a little annoyed. **********

 

Your being bored and annoyed is state of Guna affected deluded mind, which forces you to call people names. But it does not affect me.

 

 

*****Who are these devotees Translation of Gita you read******

 

 

I have pity for you. May Lord bless you and me.

 

 

 

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I would be the happiest one if the Lord comes and kills me

 

Well to get killed by the lord is also the luckiest thing to happen.

 

U know all the big rakshas like Ravana were lord's devotees and he kills them to take them back to godhead, back to home sweet home

 

Please understand this

 

hari bol

 

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Yadus were killed due to their arrogance by the will of the Lord by instruments whereas Ravana was killed directly.

 

There are differences.

 

 

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