what is a happy life

[Guest guest]

Namaskar

 

Re

(Since most of us think that this body is self. The life force within is the real Self. Identify the life force as the root of the mind, which again is actually a hindrance to appreciate the life force.

Life force has root in sthanu. )

 

*********Wonderful, realize the self and its roots, herein lies the true happiness.***********

 

Make your mind a friend*************************

 

 

 

 

Mind has the freedom to associate “I” feeling with the body, with the mind, with the intellect, with the ego, or with the source of all these -- the one Self, the one I.

 

Mind may see the dance and forget the dancer.

 

 

 

 

*******************Life force has root in sthanu and in this way it is identical but with a difference, one is controlled and the other is the controller.*******************************

 

 

 

 

Sthanu is the real I. All other selfs are dependent.

 

 

Lord in chapter 12 commands “Know me as the doer and enjoyer”. Then who else is the doer?

 

Lord also commands “Surrender to me”. Surrender with an “i” sense intact is no surrender at all or is a conditional surrender at best.

 

 

All philosophical variations are on account of love for a particular form of Lord but Lord is the source of all forms. All forms are His names.

 

 

Mind will soon know what eternal life is and what eternal happiness is. Individuality is the bank that separates Jiva and Lord. When a true Advaitin talks of SELF he has no self. But critics do not know of total surrender and dissolution of small i. They love a particular form.

 

[Guest guest]

 

Namaskar Ganesh Prasad Ji

 

To just show one example, how great men have interpreted scriptures to suit their own biased values I quote from the summary of Vishistaadvaita refutation of Sankara.

 

“The whole matter may be summarily stated as follows. Some texts declare a distinction of nature between non-intelligent matter, intelligent beings, and Brahman, in so far as matter is the object of enjoyment, the souls the enjoying subjects, and Brahman the ruling principle. 'Know Prakriti to be Mâyâ, and the great Lord the ruler of Mâyâ' (10); 'What is perishable is the Pradhâna, the immortal and imperishable is Hara: the one God rules the Perishable and the Self' (Svet Up. I, 10)--In this last passage the clause 'the immortal and imperishable is Hara,' refers to the enjoying individual soul, which is called 'Hara,' ”

 

 

 

So, the critic has an agenda to prove that Hara is individual soul. And he implies that in the sentence “the immortal and imperishable is Hara: the one God rules the Perishable and the Self' , Hara and the supreme ruler are different. I can show you innumerable such examples where the interpretations are motivated.

 

 

But same Upanishad as quoted below gives away THE LIES. Only the ones who do not read the full scriptures are deluded.

Svet U. Chapter II. 14

As gold covered by earth shines bright after it has been purified, so also the yogi, realising the truth of Atman, becomes one with the non—dual Atman, attains the goal and is free from grief

 

Chapter III

1

The non—dual Ensnarer rules by His powers. Remaining one and the same, He rules by His powers all the worlds during their manifestation and continued existence. They who know this become immortal.

2

Rudra is truly one; for the knowers of Brahman do not admit the existence of a second, He alone rules all the worlds by His powers. He dwells as the inner Self of every living being. After having created all the worlds, He, their Protector, takes them back into Himself at the end of time.

 

 

And do not only talk about Svet. U. A few other verses are reproduced below.

 

'Meditate on the Self as Om' (Mu. Up. II, 2, 6); 'Having known that, he is freed from the jaws of death' (Ka. Up. I, 3, 15); 'Let a man meditate on the Self only as his world' (Bri. Up. I, 4, 15); 'The Self is to be seen, to be heard, to her reflected on, to be meditated on' (Bri. Up. IV, 5, 6); 'That we must search out, that we must try to understand' (Kh. Up. VIII, 7, 1).

 

 

'In the beginning, my dear, there was that only which is, one only without a second' (Kh. Up. VI, 2, 1); 'Bliss is Brahman' (Taitt. Up. III, 6, 1); 'All this is that Self' (Bri. Up. IV, 5, 7); 'There is here no diversity whatever' (Bri. Up. IV, 4, 19); 'From death to death goes he who sees any difference here' (Ka. Up. II, 4, 10); 'For where there is duality as it were, there one sees the other'; 'but where the Self has become all of him, by what means, and whom, should he see? by what means, and whom, should he know?' (Bri. Up. IV, 5, 15); 'the effect is a name merely which has its origin in speech; the truth is that (the thing made of clay) is clay merely' (Kh. Up. VI, 1, 4); 'for if he makes but the smallest distinction in it there is fear for him' (Taitt. Up. II, 7

 

 

--the following passages from the Vishnu-purâna: 'In which all difference vanishes, which is pure Being, which is not the object of words, which is known by the Self only--that knowledge is called Brahman' (VI, 7, 53); 'Him whose essential nature is knowledge, who is stainless in reality'; 'Him who, owing to erroneous view, abides in the form of things' (I, 2, 6); 'the Reality thou art alone, there is no other, O Lord of the world!--whatever matter is seen belongs to thee whose being is knowledge; but owing to their erroneous opinion the non-devout look on it as the form of the world. This whole world has knowledge for its essential nature, but the Unwise viewing it as being of the nature of material things are driven round on the ocean of delusion. Those however who possess true knowledge and pure minds see this whole world as having knowledge for its Self, as thy form, O highest Lord!' (Vi. Pu. I, 4, 38 ff.).--'Of that Self, although it exists in one's own and in other bodies, the knowledge is of one kind, and that is Reality; those who maintain duality hold a false view' (II, 14, 31); 'If there is some other one, different from me, then it can be said, "I am this and that one is another"' (II, 13, 86); 'As owing to the difference of the holes of the flute the air equally passing through them all is called by the names of the different notes of the musical scale; so it is with the universal Self' (II, 14, 32); 'He is I; he is thou; he is all: this Universe is his form. Abandon the error of difference. The king being thus instructed, abandoned the view of difference, having gained an intuition of Reality' (II, 16, 24). 'When that view which gives rise to difference is absolutely destroyed, who then will make the untrue distinction between the individual Self and Brahman?' (VI, 7, 94).

 

 

'When he finds freedom from fear and rest in that which is invisible, incorporeal, undefined, unsupported, then he has obtained the fearless' (Taitt. Up. II, 7); 'The fetter of the heart is broken, all doubts are solved and all his works perish when he has been beheld who is high and low' (Mu. Up. II, 2, 8); 'He knows Brahman, he becomes Brahman only' (Mu. Up. III, 2, 9); 'Knowing him only a man passes over death; there is no other path to go' (Svet. Up. III, 8).

 

 

Scripture is of greater force than Perception. Otherwise what value the scriptures are of? But Vishitavadas turns the tables. By relying on mere perception, Ramanuja argues: Svayamprakâsatva Consciousness is not eternal as There is no consciousness without object. He states that perception has a greater force than shruti. He states “In cases of Scripture conflicting with Perception, Scripture is not stronger. The True cannot be known through the Untrue”.

 

 

I ask “Is what is perceived through the senses the absolute truth?”

 

 

Instead of going into debate I will just mention that there are innumerable shruti passages that state that Santanah jyoti rupa Bava is eternal bhagwan.

 

 

If you agree that “perception has a greater force than shruti”, then you are willing that the bank that separates Jiva and Brahman may never dissolve.

 

Om Namah Sivayya

 

 

 

 

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

Namaskar

 

Re

(Mind has the freedom to associate “I” feeling with the body, with the mind, with the intellect, with the ego, or with the source of all these -- the one Self, the one I.

 

Mind may see the dance and forget the dancer.)

 

Define mind please.

Problem is I see the dance and that i want to be the dancer.

 

 

Re

(Sthanu is the real I. All other selfs are dependent.)

 

Realize this in true sense and the life will be bliss.

 

 

Re

(Lord in chapter 12 commands “Know me as the doer and enjoyer”. Then who else is the doer?)

 

None other then the lord

 

One who is free from desires; who is pure, wise, impartial, and free from anxiety; who has renounced (the doership in) all undertakings; and who is devoted to Me, is dear to Me. (12.16)

One who neither rejoices nor grieves, neither likes nor dislikes, who has renounced both the good and the evil, and who is full of devotion, such a person is dear to Me. (12.17)

The one who remains the same towards friend or foe, in honor or disgrace, in heat or cold, in pleasure or pain; who is free from attachment; and (12.18)

The one who is indifferent or silent in censure or praise, content with anything, unattached to a place (country, or house), equanimous, and full of devotion; that person is dear to Me. (12.19)

But those devotees who have faith and sincerely try to develop the above mentioned immortal virtues, and set Me as their supreme goal; are very dear to Me. (12.20)

 

Re

(Lord also commands “Surrender to me”. Surrender with an “i” sense intact is no surrender at all or is a conditional surrender at best.)

 

So what will he protect if there is no you?

 

 

 

Re

(All philosophical variations are on account of love for a particular form of Lord but Lord is the source of all forms. All forms are His names.)

 

This is very true and some take this to extreme absurdity blinded or misguided they think the lord is a jiva.

 

 

Re

(Mind will soon know what eternal life is and what eternal happiness is. Individuality is the bank that separates Jiva and Lord. When a true Advaitin talks of SELF he has no self. But critics do not know of total surrender and dissolution of small i. They love a particular form.)

 

It is the self in whome the mind reside should know what eternal life is.

 

 

For Atanu only I wondered why we have a spiritual bond?

 

I note with intrest your drawing to spiritual path after the passing away of your dear father, I also saw my father die in my hand very peacefully here one day gone the next.

Infact I consider his death as my guru it was at this point I asked who am I what is the goal of life and I get all the inspiration looking at his life.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

Jai Ganesh

Namaskar

 

 

************Define mind please.

Problem is I see the dance and that i want to be the dancer.********************

 

 

 

No. “I want to be something”, this desire cannot remain. See what you have cited below. The prerequisite for the dawn of knowledge is desirelessness. Enquire who desires? Does the Lord desire anything? It is the ego that desires. So, presence of Aham Kara (the I cry) is an hindrance. But another way is to know the source of Ahamkara. Both enquiries help to dissolve the ego and the final result is that one just exists as bliss and knowledge.

 

There cannot be any desire of becoming anything.

 

 

What is mind? Let the devotees find out the mind.

 

Svet. U.

 

I.3

The sages, absorbed in meditation through one—pointedness of mind, discovered the creative power, belonging to the Lord Himself and hidden in its own gunas. That non—dual Lord rules over all those causes—time, the self and the rest.

I.4

The sages saw the wheel of Brahman, which has one felly, a triple tire, sixteen end—parts, fifty spokes with twenty counter—spokes and six sets of eight; whose one rope is manifold; which moves on three different roads; and whose illusion arises from two causes.

I.5

We meditate on the River whose five currents are the five organs of perception, which is made impetuous and winding by the five elements, whose waves are the five organs of actions and whose fountain—head is the mind, the source of the five forms of perception. This River has five whirlpools and its rapids are the fivefold misery; and lastly, it has fifty branches and five pain—bearing obstructions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

***********One who is free from desires; who is pure, wise, impartial, and free from anxiety; who has renounced (the doership in) all undertakings; and who is devoted to Me, is dear to Me. (12.16)

**************

 

 

Lord also says: “Surrender to me and I will give you knowledge”

 

 

 

 

*****************Re

(Lord also commands “Surrender to me”. Surrender with an “i” sense intact is no surrender at all or is a conditional surrender at best.)

 

So what will he protect if there is no you? ***************************

 

 

When there will be complete surrender then only there will be no need for protection, since there will be no fear. Far arises from the other. Till complete surrender takes place, the process of Ego destruction will not cease.

 

And that is why the path is like walking on Razor’s edge. Till ego is there the pain will be there and pain will intensify for the stubborn. I know it.

 

 

 

**************Re (All philosophical variations are on account of love for a particular form of Lord but Lord is the source of all forms. All forms are His names.)

 

 

This is very true and some take this to extreme absurdity blinded or misguided they think the lord is a jiva.

 

*************************

 

 

Absolutely. Lord is not Jiva. But Lord has become Jiva without undergoing any change himself. When Lord is one without a second then what else can become Jiva?

 

 

That is full. This is full. Full taken from full remains full.

 

Svet U.

 

I.7

It is the Supreme Brahman alone untouched by phenomena that is proclaimed in the Upanishads. In It is established the triad of the enjoyer, the object and the Lord who is the Controller. This Brahman is the immutable foundation; It is imperishable. The sages, having realized Brahman to be the essence of phenomena, become devoted to Him. Completely merged in Brahman, they attain freedom from rebirth.

I.8

The Lord, Isa, supports all this which has been joined together—the perishable and the imperishable, the manifest, the effect and the unmanifest, the cause. The same Lord, the Supreme Self, devoid of Lordship, becomes bound because of assuming the attitude of the enjoyer. The jiva again realizes the Supreme Self and is freed from all fetters.

 

I.9

The Supreme Lord appears as Isvara, omniscient and omnipotent and as the jiva, of limited knowledge and power, both unborn. But this does not deny the phenomenal universe; for there exists further the unborn prakriti, which creates the ideas of the enjoyer, enjoyment and the object. Atman is infinite and all—pervading and therefore devoid of agency. When the seeker knows all these three to be Brahman, he is freed from his fetters.

 

 

Note1: The same Lord, the Supreme Self, devoid of Lordship, becomes bound because of assuming the attitude of the enjoyer. The jiva again realizes the Supreme Self and is freed from all fetters.

 

Note2: The Supreme Lord appears as Isvara, omniscient and omnipotent and as the jiva.

 

 

Note3: Please consider: “the Supreme Self, devoid of Lordship, becomes bound because of assuming the attitude of the enjoyer”

 

 

Shruti is infallible, whatever philosophers may say. This Jiva has full faith in Shruti, which has a greater force that Smriti.

 

 

 

**************

 

It is the self in whome the mind reside should know what eternal life is.****************

 

 

Yes, I agree and thanks for the correction. Since there would me no mind then.

 

 

 

************For Atanu only I wondered why we have a spiritual bond?************

 

 

 

Consciousness is ONE. Different levels of entanglement with maya causes different degrees of feeling of separation. Our experiential levels being similar we have begun to perceive the bond.

 

Self realized sages do not see other -- whatever philosophers may argue.

 

Svet U.

 

I.7

-------- The sages, having realized Brahman to be the essence of phenomena, become devoted to Him. Completely merged in Brahman, they attain freedom from rebirth.

 

 

Note: No desire to become HIM. Brahman is desire less.

 

 

*******************I note with intrest your drawing to spiritual path after the passing away of your dear father, I also saw my father die in my hand very peacefully here one day gone the next.

Infact I consider his death as my guru it was at this point I asked who am I what is the goal of life and I get all the inspiration looking at his life.********************

 

 

Death is the Guru of Nachiketa also (Katha U.). So, your knowledge is for real.

 

 

 

Who is bound in you? Who is the doer in you? Who is the enjoyer in you? And who feels sad?

 

 

Om Namah Sivayya

 

[Guest guest]

MIND

 

Mind is a wonderful force inherent in the Self.

 

That which arises in this body as 'I' is the mind.

 

When the subtle mind emerges through the brain and the senses, the gross names and forms are cognized. When it remains in the Heart names and forms disappear.... If the mind remains in the Heart, the 'I' or the ego which is the source of all thoughts will go, and the Self, the Real, Eternal 'I' alone will shine. Where there is not the slightest trace of the ego, there is the Self.

 

 

 

Whose mind it is?

[Guest guest]

mind is the expression of the eternal individuality of the spiritual soul in this material world

 

in the absolute world thought, desire and action are present, but they are direct expression of the soul, the essence, the consciousness.. not something external

[Guest guest]

Again read what I wrote.

 

"Mind is a force inherent in the Self. "

 

And You write: "--------not something external ".

 

Did you read before replying?

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

liberated individuals and the lord have no separated self and mind, so mind is not a force in the self... it is the self who is cit,conscious without the need of something else

[Guest guest]

***********Define what is mind****************

 

 

Atma and Manas

 

 

Atma

 

BU III, 7, 1-16; 18-23

20. "He who dwells in the mind, yet is other than the mind, whom the mind does not know, whose body is the mind, who controls the mind from within--he is the atman within you, the Inner Controller, the immortal.

 

---------------

 

"He is the unseen seer, the unheard hearer, the unthought thinker, the unknown knower. There is no other seer than he, no other hearer than he, no other thinker than he, no other knower than he. He is your atman, the Inner Controller, the immortal.

"Anything else is the cause of suffering."

 

Then Uddalaka Aruni was silent.

 

 

 

BU III, 4, 2

 

 

2. Then Ushasta Cakrayana said:

"You have explained this to me as if one says: 'This is a cow, this is a horse.' Now explain to me that Brahman which is manifest and not concealed, that which is the atman within everything."

 

"That is your atman which is within everything."

 

"How is it within everything, Yajnavalkya?"

 

"You cannot see the seer of seeing, you cannot hear the hearer of hearing, you cannot know the knower of knowing. This atman which is within everything is your very own atman. Anything else is the cause of suffering."

 

After this Ushasta Cakrayana was silent.

 

 

 

 

CU VIII,

 

 

5. "When a man is aware of thinking, it is the atman who is aware of thinking, the mind is its divine eye. Seeing these heavenly joys with his divine eye of the mind, the atman rejoices.

 

BU IV, 4,

 

5. This atman is in truth Brahman, consisting of consciousness, mind, life, eye, ear, earth, water, air, atmosphere, light and no light, of desire and desirelessness, of anger and freedom from anger, of righteousness and unrighteousness, consisting of all that. ------

 

 

 

Mind

Nasadiya Sukta

RV X, 129

1. At first was neither Being nor Nonbeing.

There was not air nor yet sky beyond.

-------------

4. In the beginning desire arose,

which was the primal germ cell of the mind.

------------------

AV XIX, 52

1. In the beginning was Desire,

the first seed of mind.

O desire, twin of Desire,

grant wealth to me!

 

Note: Mind is desire.

PRASN U II,

1. "Tell me, Master, how many powers support a creature? Which of them make him manifest and, again, which is the foremost?"

 

2. "These powers," he replied, "are space, wind, fire, water, and earth; also speech, mind, sight, and hearing. All these, having made the creature manifest, say, 'It is we who prop up this body and support it!'

 

 

Note: Mind is power. Whose power?

 

KAUS U II, 1

iv) "Life is Brahman," said Kaushitaki. "The messenger of Life, of Brahman, is the mind, its watchman is the eye, its herald is the ear, its servant is speech . . . . To this Life, to Brahman, all the powers bring tribute, even without being asked. So too all beings bring tribute to the one who knows this, even without being asked."

 

 

..

 

Mano yagna – sacrifice of the mind leads to immortality

KATH U III, 13

iii) The wise Man should surrender his words to his mind;

and this he should surrender to the Knowing Self;

The Knowing Self he should surrender to the Great Self;

and that he should surrender to the Peaceful Self.

 

 

MAIT U VI, 34

v) 1. Just as fire without fuel is extinguished in its own source, so is the mind extinguished in its own source, when thoughts have ceased.

2. When the mind of a seeker after truth has become extinguished in its own source, he is no longer deluded by the sense objects, which are deceptive and are subservient to karman.

3. The mind indeed is this fleeting world; therefore it should be purified with great effort. One becomes like that which is in one's mind--this is the everlasting secret.

---------------

---------------

8. Only so long must the mind be controlled, until it is annihilated in the heart: this truly is knowledge, this is liberation; the rest is nothing but pedantic superfluity.

--------------------

11. The mind alone is man's cause of bondage or release: it leads to bondage when attached to the sense objects, and to release when freed from them. Thus it is taught.

 

 

PAING U IV, 9

vi) With his mind purified, with his consciousness purified, with patience, thinking "I am He," and with patience when he has attained the consciousness of "I am He," he is established by wisdom in the supreme atman who is to be known in the heart, and when his body has attained the state of peace, then the spirit with its light, the mind, becomes void.

 

[Guest guest]

What is THAT? What is Thou? What is are?

 

 

Suka-Rahasya Upanishad

 

 

--

 

Om ! May He protect us both together; may He nourish us both together;

 

--------------

 

Let there be Peace in the forces that act on me!

--------------

 

Then Shiva, hearing this sat in a divine seat to give instruction. Suka, the fortunate, came there with devotion and getting the Pranava, spoke again to Shiva.

 

Suka aid, ‘First among gods, all-knowing, be pleased. The supreme Brahman, inherent in Om, has been imparted; the special sense 'That Thou Art' etc., with the six limbs, I desire to hear’.

 

Shiva said, -------------For the wise man who meditates upon Brahman, holy spots, Vedic rites and mantras are useless. One wins a hundred years of life, meditating the sense of major texts. The same is won, uttering this once.

 

20. Om, for this mantra, Hamsa is the Rishi, unmanifest Gayatri is the metre, deity is Paramahamsa, Hamsa is the seed, Sama-Veda is the power. ‘I am That’ is the pin. Its application is in the context of uttering the major text to secure the grace of the Paramahamsa. ‘Truth, knowledge, infinity is Brahman. ---------- --------- bow to the heart’.

 

--------------

 

The four major passages:

 

Consciousness is Brahman

 

I am Brahman

 

That Thou Art and

 

This self is Brahman.

 

Those who recite the statement of identity become liberated in Sayujya (identity).

 

23-24. Of the great incantation ‘Tat’, the seer is Hamsa, un-manifest Gayatri is the metre. Paramahamsa the deity; Hamsa the seed; Sama-Veda, power; So’ham is the pin; application is the meditation for my liberation. Bow to the thumbs, to that aspirant Svaha to Isana, the index fingers, Vasat to Aghora the middle fingers, to Sadyojata, the ring fingers, hum; to Vamadeva, the little fingers Vausat; to that spirit, Isana, Aghora etc. Phat.

 

Meditation: Meditate on that shining light as knowledge and its objects and what is beyond them both, taintless, awake, free and imperishable.

 

25-26. Of the chant of ‘Tvam’ Vishnu is the seer, Gayatri is the metre, supreme Self the deity, ‘aim’ the seed, ‘klim’ the power, ‘sauh’ the pin, application is to the repetition for my liberation.

 

Bow to Vasudeva, to the thumbs: Svaha to Samkarsana, the index-fingers; Vasat to Pradyumna, the middle fingers; Hum to Aniruddha, the ring fingers; Vausat to Vasudeva, the little finger; Phat to Vasudeva and others.

 

Meditation: I adore the word ‘Thou’ the Jiva state, in all living things, everywhere, impartite form, controller of mind and egoism.

 

27. For ‘Asi’, the seer is Manas, metre Gayatri, deity Ardhanarishvara, seed is Avyaktadi, power is Nrisimha, pin is supreme Self. Application is repetition for identification of Jiva and Brahman. --------------.

 

28-29. Meditation: ‘Meditate ever on Asi, thou art. Aiming at the merger of Jiva in that, as long as the mind dwells on the purport’. Thus have been stated the six limbs of the major texts.

 

30-38. Now according to the classification of the mystic teachings are set forth the verses on the purport.

 

Prajnana is that whereby one sees, hears, smells and makes clear all objects here, pleasant and unpleasant, by which one knows. In the four-faced Brahman, Indra and Devas, men, horses, cows, etc., spirit is one Brahman – so, in me too Prajnana is Brahman. In this body being remains witness to the intellect and is called I. The Being full in itself is described as Brahman, referred to with Asmi. So, I am Brahman. The being, one without a second, without name and form before creation and even now is called That. The being called Thou here beyond the senses understood as one. Let this unity be experienced. The inner self, from ego to the body, is called this (ayam) because it is self-luminous and realizes intimately. The truth of the universe is stated of all that is seen by the word Brahman.

 

39. I was in the state of dream of ‘I’ and “Mine’ because of the absence of the vision of the spirit. But I was awakened when the sun of my own nature arose by means of the major texts spoken clearly by the perception.

 

40-42. Senses has two ways: expressed and implied. In ‘Tattvam Asi’ the expressed meaning is the senses etc., which are elemental and the implied is, ‘He’ in ‘you’ (Tvam), in the word Tat the expressed sense is lordship etc., the implied is the supreme being which is Sat, Chit and Ananda. ‘Asi’ identifies these two. Tvam and Tad mean effect and cause respectively when this is the adjunct; otherwise both are the same Sat, Chit and Ananda – separating the space and time faites the identity is got, just as in the world, in the expression, ‘This is that Devadatta’.

 

The Jiva has the effect-adjunct, Isa has the cause-adjunct – when both are removed, only the full knowledge remains.

 

---------------

 

Let there be Peace in the forces that act on me !

 

Om Namah Sivayya

 

 

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

 

Namaskar Atanuji

 

Sorry I have not been able to respond as my computer is playing up also I am not able to since I have a limited knowledge of sruti.

 

Re

(To just show one example, how great men have interpreted scriptures to suit their own biased values I quote from the summary of Vishistaadvaita refutation of Sankara.)

 

 

It is obvious in my limited understanding, that all great man and there has been many,who have given us there interpretation based on their realisation, since the lord is infinite there are many posibilities just as mandukya up. States

He is not knowable by perception, turned inward or outward, nor by both combined.

He is neither that which is known, nor that which is not known, nor is he the sum of all that might be known.

 

 

There are different perception of supreme Brahman given to us by Rishis of the past, who show and realized the Brahman through their tapasya, we have to realize these ourselves, and than we will not be, arguing which at times degenerates in to absurdity.

 

 

 

re

(So, the critic has an agenda to prove that Hara is individual soul. And he implies that in the sentence “the immortal and imperishable is Hara: the one God rules the Perishable and the Self' , Hara and the supreme ruler are different. I can show you innumerable such examples where the interpretations are motivated. )

 

There is no need to show example, such malicious propaganda by anyone serve no purpose nor is Hari pleased with those who deliberately mislead.

 

Re

(Rudra is truly one; for the knowers of Brahman do not admit the existence of a second, He alone rules all the worlds by His powers. He dwells as the inner Self of every living being. After having created all the worlds, He, their Protector, takes them back into Himself at the end of time.)

 

May he bless us all.

 

 

Re

 

(Scripture is of greater force than Perception. Otherwise what value the scriptures are of? But Vishitavadas turns the tables. By relying on mere perception, Ramanuja argues: Svayamprakâsatva Consciousness is not eternal as There is no consciousness without object. He states that perception has a greater force than shruti. He states “In cases of Scripture conflicting with Perception, Scripture is not stronger. The True cannot be known through the Untrue”.)

 

I have very little knowledge of scriptures and different vads in it, every one of them operate within their own boundaries and sometimes at the expense of others.

 

 

. Atitah panthanam

 

tava ca mahima vanmanasayor

 

Atad vyavrttya yam

 

cakita mabhi dhatte srutirapi,

 

Sa kasya stotavyah

 

katividha gunah kasya visayah

 

Pade tvarvacine

 

patati na manah kasya na vacah.

 

 

 

Your greatness is beyond the reach of mind and speech. Who can properly praise that which even the Vedas describe with trepidation, by means of' 'not this, not this'? How many qualities does He possess? By whom can He be perceived? Yet whose mind and speech do not turn to the form later taken by Him (saguna) ?

 

 

 

 

 

3. Madu sphita vacah

 

paramam amrtam nirmitavatas

 

Tava brahman kim vag

 

api suraguror vismaya padam,

 

Mama tvetam vanim

 

guna kathana punyena bhavatah

 

Punam ityarthe'smin

 

puramathana buddhir vyavasita.

 

 

 

O Brahman! Do even Brihaspati's praises cause wonder to You, the author of the nectarlike sweet Vedas? 0 destroyer of the three cities, the thought that by praising Your glories I shall purify my speech has prompted me to undertake this work.

 

 

 

 

 

4. Tavaisvaryam yat taj

 

jagadudaya raksa pralayakrt

 

Trayivastu vyastam

 

tisrsu guna-bhinnasu tanusu,

 

Abhavyanam asmin

 

varada ramaniyama ramanim

 

Vihantum vyakrosim

 

vidadhata ihaike jadadhiyah.

 

 

 

O Giver of boons! Some stupid people produce arguments—pleasing to the ignorant but in fact hateful— to refute Your Divinity, which creates, preserves and destroys the world, which is divided into three bodies (Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva) according to the three gunas, and which is described in the three Vedas.

 

 

 

 

 

5. Kimihah kinkayah

 

sa khalu kimupaya stribhuvanam

 

Kimadharo dhata

 

srjati kimupadana iti ca,

 

Atarkyais varye tvay

 

yanavasara duhstho hatadhiyah

 

Kutarko’yam kanscin

 

mukharayati mohaya jagatah.

 

 

 

To fulfil what desire, assuming what form, with what instruments, support and material does that Creator create the three worlds?…. This kind of futile argumentation about You whose divine nature is beyond the reach of intellect, makes the perverted vociferous, and brings delusion to men.

 

 

 

 

 

6. Ajanmano lokah

 

kimavayava vanto'pi jagatam

 

Adhisthataram kim

 

bhavavidhir-anadrtya bhavati,

 

Aniso va kuryad

 

bhuvana janane kah parikaro

 

Yato mandastvam prat—

 

yamaravara sanserata ime.

 

 

 

O Lord of gods! Can the worlds be without origin, though they have bodies? Is their creation possible with­out a creator? Who else but God can initiate the creation of the worlds? Because they are fools they raise doubts about Your existence.

 

 

 

 

Re

 

(I ask “Is what is perceived through the senses the absolute truth?”)

 

senses are faulty.

 

Re

(Instead of going into debate I will just mention that there are innumerable shruti passages that state that Santanah jyoti rupa Bava is eternal bhagwan.)

 

I have no argument on this subject.

 

Re

(If you agree that “perception has a greater force than shruti”, then you are willing that the bank that separates Jiva and Brahman may never dissolve. )

 

What do I know, all I know is if I have faith and with his grace one day I will know the truth.

 

Om Namah Sivayya

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

Namaskar Ganesh Prasad Ji

 

 

********What do I know, all I know is if I have faith and with his grace one day I will know the truth.**************

 

 

True.

 

 

For me, many shruti passages announced their presence and began illuminating this consciousness. Has this long discussion yielded any fruit for you?

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

Namaskar Atanuji

 

Re

(For me, many shruti passages announced their presence and began illuminating this consciousness.)

 

I am pleased for you, the lord fulfills our desires.

 

Re

(Has this long discussion yielded any fruit for you? )

 

What do you think?.

 

 

but

karmany evadhikaras te

ma phalesu kadacana

ma karma-phala-hetur bhur

ma te sango 'stv akarmani

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

karmany evadhikaras te

ma phalesu kadacana

ma karma-phala-hetur bhur

ma te sango 'stv akarmani

 

 

True. You are wise. This discussion has not been like Karma. It was enjoyment. I suppose when one truly renunciates all things become enjoyable.

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

 

Re

(True. You are wise. This discussion has not been like Karma. It was enjoyment. I suppose when one truly renunciates all things become enjoyable.)

 

Far from it.i have a lot to learn and the discussion with you has been enjoyable as well as educating.renunciating is easy said then done but you are right it is the key to bliss.

 

cetasa sarva-karmani

mayi sannyasya mat-parah

buddhi-yogam upasritya

mac-cittah satatam bhava.bg18.57

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Guest guest]

Renunciation is easy for a mature fruit.

 

Urva Rukam Bhandanat

Ma mrityor mamrtt

 

 

Best wishes and best of Luck to you

[Guest guest]

Sorry, a mistake occured

 

Tryambakam sugandhim pushtibarshanam

Urva Rukam iva bhandanat

mrityor muksia Ma mamrtt

 

[sukrutha 0]

Namasthe,

It is MahAmrutyunjay mantr:

 

It shd b

 

Om tryambakam yajAmahe sugandhim pushti-vardhanam

UrvArukamiva BhandhanAn mrutyOrmuksEy' mAmrutAt'

 

is it not

 

Namasthe

Janaki

[Guest guest]

Yes it is as you cite it.