what is a happy life

December 3, 2004

You don’t know what do you say ? Maharshi is the living God in Human form. A Maharshi lives in trilok (in three planes/regions Like on the Earth, in the Heaven and nether land) in the same time. Maharshi isn’t the separate soul or body but One with the God. I wonder to your foolishness. Who are you ? an atheist ?

December 3, 2004

Dear Robin,

Do not mind small talk of men.

December 8, 2004

There are certain thoughts for you to ponder on.

When did you first have the sense of "I am" or "I exist"?

Did the sperm that managed to inflate to a body possess this "I am" sense? If not then where from the "I" sense arises?

How did the small sperm become such a huge body?

What drove the sperm to meet the egg? Did the sperm also have a will?

If answer to above question is yes, then how many such wills a male member nourishes and fights and manages or fails to manage?

The sperm that became you (after obtaining material support from an egg) was manufactured by food in your parent's body but was it manufactured by your parent?

If your parent did not manufacture the particular sperm that finally managed to become you, how can we say that your father is the one in whose body the sperm was manufactured?

Same with the egg.

Above questions are from jiva Atanu. Now, a question from Rig Veda: How boneless becomes bony? A formless God becomes a mountain, a river, a man. Also a boneless sperm becomes a bony animal. How?

Ganeshprasad · December 9, 2004

Jai Ganesh

Re

(When did you first have the sense of "I am" or "I exist"?)

I exist eternaly

Re

(Did the sperm that managed to inflate to a body possess this "I am" sense? If not then where from the "I" sense arises?)

If the sperm was the soul then yes or else it is just a carrier

Re

(How did the small sperm become such a huge body?)

Every thing is maped out by the lord.

Re

(What drove the sperm to meet the egg? Did the sperm also have a will?)

Desire of the soul.

Re

(If answer to above question is yes, then how many such wills a male member nourishes and fights and manages or fails to manage?)

Nothing flourishes without the will of the lord.

Re

(The sperm that became you (after obtaining material support from an egg) was manufactured by food in your parent's body but was it manufactured by your parent? )

I do not think the sperm, egg combination produces conciousness, rather the presence of the soul supports the growth of the new born in various different speices.

the parents have a part in the process.

Re

(If your parent did not manufacture the particular sperm that finally managed to become you, how can we say that your father is the one in whose body the sperm was manufactured? ) Same with the egg.)

The sperms and the eggs are the products of the parents, of any particular speices, the soul through the result of its karma would join or ride the sperm at the time of conception

These are some of my own thoughts, I am no expert please feel free to correct me.

Re

(Above questions are from jiva Atanu. Now, a question from Rig Veda: How boneless becomes bony? A formless God becomes a mountain, a river, a man. Also a boneless sperm becomes a bony animal. How? )

Dear Atanu as many question you answer many more spring up, to unravel the mistry of life is beyond our mental speculation.

All I know is this temporary material world is not fit for the eternal soul that dwels in it, as I have no control over the events that unfolds, I have to put my hands up and call out for the higher authority for help, we may read the scriptures, follow a guru or what ever.

without his grace we have no chance.

Faith in the lord is very important, in the questions you have asked,i know i have not done justice, but i did say i will get back to you in the new year.

When Naradmuni told the cobbler that the lord was threading elephant through the eye of a needle, he was not surprised at all and Naradji when questioned his blind faith he replied, if the lord can put big gigantic tree in a small seed what is imposible for him?

Jai Shree Krishna

December 25, 2004

Dear Ganeshprasad ji,

You in this thread had enquired about Dakshinamurti. The follwing will explain it and will also increase punya several folds.

DAKSHINÁMÜRTI STOTRAM

Upásakánám yad upásanèyam

upáttavásam vatasákhimüle

Taddáma dáksinyajusá svamürtyá

Jágartu citte mama bodharüpam. (1)

May that Supreme Spirit that has taken its abode under the banyan tree taking an anthropomorphic form facing south as an act of great condescension and which is the object of meditation for the devotees remain in my mind activising my intellect.

Daksinámurti is one of the radiant human forms which Lord Siva the Supreme Spirit takes out of His infinite mercy (dáksinya) to uplift the ripe soul from bondage. The banyan tree under which he is seated typifies the microcosm in the tiny seed of the tree and the vast expanse of its branches, leaves and roots that evolve from it respectively thereby illustrating how the Universe evolves out of the Supreme Spirit who willed in the Upanisadic words `Bahusyám', `May I multiply'. The banyan tree which outlives several other living species also stands for the eternality (sat) associated with the Supreme. The devotees who meditate on Him have their consciousness (cit) illumined and experience bliss (ánanda). Thus Daksinámürti is none other than Sat-cit-ánanda.

Adráksam aksina dayá-nidhánam

Ácáryam ádyam vaûamülabháge

Maunena manda-smita-bhüsitena

Maharsilokasya tamo nudantam.

I beheld under the banyan tree the Primordial Preceptor, the receptable of undiminishing compassion driving away the darkness of ignorance of great sages by mere silence that is adorned by a gentle smile.

vidravitásesa tamogunena

Mudrávissena muhur minènám

Nirasya máyám dayayá vidhatte

Devo mahán tat-tvam-asi iti bodham(3)

The Great Lord endowed as he is with compassion drove away often and on, the quality of ignorance of the sages in entirety by his jòánamudrá (the pose of fingers that confers true knowledge) and thus destroyed their nescience and ushered in the profound knowledge `That thou art.'

Apárakarunya-sudhá-tarañgaiç

Apángapáir-avalokayantam

Kaûhora-samsára-nidághataptán

Munèn aham naumi gurum gurünám(4)

I offer my obeisance to that Preceptor of preceptors who, by His ambrosial glances marked by unlimited grace, was looking at the sages afflicted by the intense heat of that fierce misery of worldly existence.

Daksinámürti is the path finder and arch preceptor in disseminating true knowledge to the successive ácáryas that walked on the globe. He is therefore the ádi-guru. The only way in which a `guru' can transmit right knowledge to his disciple is kindness and compassion. As an ideal guru, Daksinámürti sets an example. His gleaming eyes shed nectar that soothes the intense sufferings of the aspirants. The healing touch works miracles. The sweltering heat of Samsára is no more. The cool breeze of ánanda has begun to blow in the mind of the sages.

Mamádyadevo vatamülavásè

Køpávisesát køtasannidhánaç

Oíkárarüpám upadisya vidyám.

Avidyaka-dhvántam apákarotu.(5)

May my primordial Lord, dwelling at the foot of the banyan tree, out of divine mercy appear before me, offer instruction in the mystic lore `Om' and dispel the darkness of nescience.

Kalábhir indoriva kaslpitáñgam

Muktákalápairiva baddhamürtim

Alokaye desikam aprameyam

Anádyavidyá timira-prabhátam(6)

I behold with my eyes the incomprehensible form of the Divine preceptor, the veritable dawn that dispels the beginningless darkness of Nescience, a form that appears, to be made as though with the digits of the moon or perhaps with a collection of pearls.

svadaksajánu-sthita-vámápádam

pádodarálañkrta-yogapattam

Apasmrter-ahita-pádam-añge

Pranoumi devam parnidhánavantam.(7)

I adore the Lord in his meditative aspect, whose left foot is placed on His right thigh, who wears the yoga vastra adorned by a serpent and who has his (right) foot placed over the body of apasmára purusa.

The `apasmára purusa' represents the evil nescience that is stamped out by the Lord. In this connection we may recall the `dhyána sloka' is Srè Daksinámürti Upanisad which seeks to confer on the meditator freedom from nesceince. `Ajòánápaham ádim ádimagirám artham Bhavánèpatim nyagrodhánt anivásinam para gurum dhyáyámyabhèstáptaye'- `I meditate on the Supreme preceptor who dwells under the banyan tree, who is none other than the Lord of Bhavánè, the import of Vedic words, the first God who destroys nescience'. (v.14).

Tattvártham antevasatám øsinám

Yuvápi yaç sannu padesûum èsûe

praqnaumi tam práktanapunyajálaih.

Ácáryam áscarya-gunádhivásam.(8)

I offer my obeisance, thanks to my past accumulated merit, to that Preceptor, the adobe of marvellous qualities, who despite his youthful appearance yearns to instruct His disciples, the Sages, the Supreme Spiritual Truth.

True knowledge would arise only when there is earnestness and competence both in the teacher and the taught. Here the sages, the brahmavádins are the disciples and Lord Siva in His youthful aspect of Daksinámürti is the preceptor. The former are the `antevásinaç' who dwell in the residence of the preceptor under the banyan tree and the latter who is anxious to teach them (upadesûum èsûe) is Himself, `the very embodiment of Consciousness who leads His devotees to the realisation of the Consciousness.

Ekena mudrám parasum karena

Karena cányena mrgam dadhánaç

Svajánuvinyastakaraç purastád

Ácárya-cüãámanir-ávirastu.(9)

May the crest jewel among the Preceptors who holds one of his hands in the cin-mudrá pose, holds in another in axe, in yet another a deer and keeps the (fourth) hand on his thigh present Himself before me.

The `cinmudrá' indicates that He is the be-all and end-all of knowledge par excellence. The axe stands for his skill in destroying ignorance. The deer held in his hand is suggestive if His control of the senses as a master Yogin.

Álepavantam madanáñgabhütyá

sárdülakøttyá paridhánavantam

álokaye kaòcana desikendram

ajòána-várákara-báãavágnim.(10)

I behold an extraordinary great prince among preceptors who is the very submarine fire (capable of consuming) the ocean of nescience. I see Him besmeared with the ash of the limbs of cupid and clad in tiger's hide.

Cárusmitam Somakalávatamsam

vènádharam vyaktajaûákalápam

upásate kecana yoginas tvám

upátta-nádánubhava pramodam(11)

Only a few among the Yogins worships Thee of smiling countenance and waving tresses, wearing the digit of the moon as a crest jewel, holding the lute in a hand and exuding joy arising from the sweet notes of the lute played on.

A vision of the `Saumya' or benign aspect of the Vinádhara Daksinámürti was worshipped by a few sages, only by a few, because such a vision is vouchsafed only to those even among the learned sages who are the recipients of His special grace. Has it not been said `Yam eva esa Vønite tena labhyah. Tasyaisa átmávivønute tanüm svám (Kathoponisad, II 33).

Upásate yam munayaç sukádyáç

Nirásiso nirmamatádhi vásáç

Tam Daksinámürtitanum mahesam

Upásmache moha-mahárti-sántyai.(12)

I meditate on Mahesvara in the form of Daksinámürti with a view to obtain the peace arising from the removal of the suffering caused by delusion. It is that very form which was meditated upon by sages Suka and others who are free from attachement and a sense of possession.

Kántyá nindita-kundakandala-

vapur nyagrodhamüle vasan

Kárunámrta-váribhir munijanam

sambhávayan vèksitaiç

Mohadhvánta vibhedenam viracayañ

bodhena tat tádøsá

Devas tat-tvam-asi iti

bodhayatu mám mudrávatá pániná.(13)

May the Lord, with his palm showing cinmudrá, endowed with a body that surpasses in lustre the jasmine flower, staying under the banyan tree, gracing the sages with looks that exude nectarine compassion, break asunder the darkness of delusion and instruct me in that Supreme Truth embedded in the scriptural text `That-thou-art'.

Agauragátraiç alaláûanetraiç

Asántavesaiç abhujañgabhüsaiç

Abodhamurdraiç anapástanidraiç

Apürnakámaih amarairalam naç.(14)

I have no need for any God whose body is not white, who does not have an eye on his forehead, who is not quietistic in appearance, who does not wear the jewel of serpent, who does not show the cin-mudrá, who has not abandoned sleep and who has not his will fulfilled.

Dáivatáni kati santi cávanau

Naiva táni manaso matáni me

Dèksitam jaãadhiyám anugrahe

Daksinábhimukham eva daivatam.(15)

Manu indeed are the Gods on this earth; but none of them are agreeable to my mind. The only God I adore is the One with His face turned to south who has resolved to extend his grace to the dullard.

Muditáya mugdhasasinávatamsine

Bhasitávalepa-ramaniya mürtaye

Jagadindrajála-racanápaûiyase

Mahase namo'stu vaûamülavásine.(16)

Obeisance to that Great God dwelling under the banyan tree filled with joy, wearing the digit of the moon as a crest jewel and bearing a form pleasing with the holy ash smeared over it. He is indeed an adept in creating this magic show of this everchanging world.

The holy ash smeared over his body is the remnant of the Universe that is destroyed by Siva at the time of the mahápralaya and it is indicative of the impermanence of the phenomenal world. This world is illusory like the product of magic and the causality of this world is to be accounted for in the indeterminable máyá grounded in Èsvara. He is filled with joy (mudita) that arises from a sense of fulfilment.

Vyálambinibhiç parito jaûábhiç

Kalávasesena kaládharená

Pasyallaláûena mukhenduná ca

Prakásase cetasi nirmalánám(17)

Thou with the long matted tresses hanging around (your face) adorned with the digits of the moon that is not full, an eye on the forehead and a face that is beautiful like the full moon shine in the minds of men of purity.

Cittasuddhi is a sine quo non for an aspirant to Self-realisation. It is only in the pure mirror of mind of such a person will reflect the radiant form of the prince of preceptors. Daksinámürti revealing true knowledge.

Upáskánám-tvam umásaháyaç

Pürnendubhávam prakaûèkarosdi

Yadadya te darsanamátrato me

Dravatyaho mánasacandrakántaç(18)

Thou with Umá as Thy consort reveal to Thy devotees the nature of a full moon. For now as I have a vision of Thee, that vision makes my mind melt as though it is a moon stone.

yaste prasannám anusandadháno

Mürtim mudá mugdhasasáñka-mauleç

Aisvaryam-áyur labhate ca vidyám

Ante ca vedánta-mahárahasyam(19)

Those who constantly meditate with great exultation on Thy form with a head marked by the digit of the moon will obtain prosperity, longevity of life, true knowledge and ultimately the great secret of Vedánta.

Om Namah Sivayya

Ganeshprasad · January 1, 2005

Jai Ganesh

Om Namah Sivayya

Thanks for the Dakshinamurti Stotram

Jai Shree Krishna

Ganeshprasad · January 1, 2005

Jai Ganesh

Re

(Yes, enquiry into the Self is the beginning. My Guru also teaches that enquire “Who is enquiring?”)

Please tell me who is enquiring and about whom?

Re

(Enquire: “where is the atma (soul)?” “What is atma?” or “wherefrom the atma comes?” I mention here that atma is I.)

Bhagvat Gita chapter 2 describes the nature of atma.

and in chapter 3.42/43

indriyani parany ahur

indriyebhyah param manah

manasas tu para buddhir

yo buddheh paratas tu sah

evam buddheh param buddhva

samstabhyatmanam atmana

jahi satrum maha-baho

kama-rupam durasadam

The senses are said to be superior (to matter or the body), the mind is superior to the senses, the intellect is superior to the mind, and Self is superior to the intellect. (3.42)

Thus, knowing the Atma to be superior to the intellect, and controlling the mind by the intellect (that is purified by Jnana), one must kill this mighty enemy, Kaama, O Arjuna. (3.43)

Re

(What remains after union with HIM? Does Jiva unite with Brahman as sugar with sand or as sugar in water? )

It can never be like sugar with sand. The soul is seeking the supersoul(Atma or Parmatma ke Milan kitne anand hoge?)

Re

(This brings tears to my eyes. This answers the above question. When He is ‘ONE without a SECOND’, then union with HIM cannot sustain a SECOND atma.)

When the lord himself declare

There are two entities in this world: the perishable and the imperishable. (The bodies of) all beings are perishable, and the Atma is imperishable. (15.16)

There is another supreme spirit called Ishvara or Paramaatma, the indestructible Lord who pervades the three worlds and sustains them. (15.17)

I am beyond the perishable body, and higher than the imperishable Atma; therefore, I am known in this world and in the Vedas as Purushottama, or the Supreme Spirit. (15.18)

The wise one, who truly knows Me as the Purushottama, knows everything and worships Me wholeheartedly, O Arjuna. (15.19)

Re

(The phenomenon disappears in HIM. Durga, the one phenomenon unites with Lord and only the Bliss exists. Merging cannot be like sugar and sand.)

Sure it is not like sugar and sand, it must be pure bliss, even the Devtas prayed for the union, for kartikaya to appear.

Re

(I differ here. Or rather perspective of my Guru differs. I intuitively believe the perspective of my Guru since nothing else satisfies.)

I respect your sradha, if we are sincere we will reach the goal, I can only see good outcome of our endeavors.

Re

(You say: “Just like mantra is not air the effect jivas are not the cause and yet both exist”. But I say that mantra exists as a form of air. Otherwise the mantra has no independent existence.)

Just as the mantra not different but result of air so is jiva the effect dependent on the cause.

Re

(The Jivas are conscious because they are consciousness alone. But jives are other since there is program written by Lord to make it so. The limited consciousness that Jivas are, are not outside the pure consciousness.)

The supreme conscious is aware of every thing and this jiva conscious who is within this supreme, is aware its immediate sorounding only, can you see the dilemma?

Re

(The bliss is within. This state is perceived when senses do not see objects. Or when the Self takes over, and lets the consciousness (that is me) know that a sound appearing to be outside my body is within the consciousness that I am.)

I agrre the bliss is sought within that is because the object of senses in this temporary world are source of misery and basically when one searchs within is recognizing the self is other than this body.

Re

(Such are small blissful states of which I have experience of. But, the desires in memory (mind) and duties (on account of those memories) bring me out.)

How can desires and duties be stronger then blissful state?

Re

(There is a state called Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi attained by the highest sages who while appearing to fulfil their karma remain in the Self.)

We can not prove this state unless we ourself realize it.

Re

(This state is not different from “renouncing all doership”.)

Krishna explains this is very hard.

Re

(My Guru states that “I” is the foremost name of the Lord. One who abides continuously in “I”, knowing “I” to be the Self and not the body attain Sahaja Nirvikalpa -- the fourth state.)

You are mixing the two I, small i can easily recognize he is not the body but this small i also can not be big I but can be part of it and therefore abides in it.

Re

(Abiding in “I” means, first identifying (through meditation) the atma sphurana – the fountain head of “I”.)

We all seek that fountain head(many paths) many concepts.

Re

(But Upanishads say that “world disappears in him”? Phenomenon has a disappearance from time to time when Shiva desires to dissolve.)

Yes like the sun disappearing every night only to reappear the next day, jivas lay dormant only to reappear.

Re

(After dissolution, all including the Devas, remain in Lord as nescience (memory), but not as reality apart from the ONE LORD. Lord Vishnu also sleeps on Sheshnag, which is residual nescience.)

What is real will always remain.

Re

(I try not to think but I try to meditate on statements. This brings out flashes of intuition. I intuitively feel most comfortable with Maharshi Ramana’s teachings that:)

you must follow what you feel comfortable with.

Re

(The Self itself is Bliss and it is always there. It does not arrive from some place. You cannot expect it be outside your own consciousness and also you cannot expect it to arrive from somewhere at sometime. Know that it is your consciousness (when devoid of imaginations of quality) itself is bliss.)

Yes just as the quality of the sun and rays are warmth and light, so is the lord and his amnsa is bliss and knowledge but just as the sun get covered by the cloud and one may think the rays and the sun has disappeared but that is not the reality. We are covered by ignorance and when that is removed the bliss is there.

Re

(Sometimes, you will have a feeling of bliss on waking up; soon to be replaced by thoughts “I have to do this or that”. This bliss is a faint memory of the bliss of association with Brahman in deep sleep. The sense of small I obstructs the permanence of the bliss.)

Whose memory? Remember big I is never deluded.

Re

(Self effort is required to know the Self.)

Only if the self exists.

Re

(Fate and destiny pertain to the karma affected mind-body “I” and not the real Self – “I”)

karma affected mind-body is inneret not alive, whose karma when did this start?

Re

(There is no free will till one does not know the “I”. Till then Niyati controls. )

If there is no free will then there is no responsibility, why should anyone suffer or enjoy?

Re

(Only free will available to small i is the choice “whether to endeavor to know the Self (the subject) or to enjoy the objects (phenomena). It is a free choice.)

So there is a choice how ever little or else no one can be held responsible for their action.

Re

(Absolute renunciation of the sense of doership is the final emancipation and the final goal.)

Because no one can remain actionless even for a moment. Everyone is driven to action, helplessly indeed, by the Gunas of nature. (3.05)

Therefore, always perform your duty efficiently and without attachment to the results, because by doing work without attachment one attains the Supreme. (3.19)

Re

(That above is not possible till desires and sankalpas remain.)

That I agree.

Re

(Yes. On this my Guru says that the question “whose is the primordial Karma?” is a forbidden question. Instead just enquire “who am I?”)

yes

Re

(Yes. You or anyone for that matter has no possibility of becoming the subject since there is no question of “becoming”.

When you “become” you are not eternal. That is not the truth. The truth is that there is no second consciousness.

Because of a dense covering of desire the pure light is veiled. But the light is there already. It is supporting your intellect.)

How can desires veil the pure light. It is obvious the small i is in darkness searching for that pure light, but i do understand the dilemma there is no room for other, so every thing must be within including the small i.

Re

(Do not you see the light during meditation? )

I am hankering for that small glimpse I had when I first started naam japa.

Re

(The truth is that all phenomenons are facet of unlimited glory of Lord. That is why Shri Rudram is an essential read and meditation.)

I have lot to learn and cotemplate.

Re

The chief of Gods is HIM and the chief of thieves is also HIM. How can anything be outside?

The river water is HIM and the fire is also HIM. How can anything be outside?

The illnesses that strike, through food, is HIM and the medicine tendered is HIM. How can anything be outside?

The auspicious is HIM. The terrible is HIM. The defeated is HIM. The victor is HIM.)

And he goes by many names.

Re

(He is the shining soul of all (Yajur Veda). So, if He is the soul then what is Atanu’s soul?)

His son.

Re

(Whatever consciousness wishes that materializes. That is the omnipotent power of consciousness. That is how the Universe appears in consciousness.)

And disappears but we witness this phenomina in our limited capacity and behold in wonder at splendour of the lord.

Re

(The solution is to just exist 'as one is' without any sankalpa whatsoever, knowing that the Universe is Brahman.)

Yes just exist as one or otherwise, without any sankalpa, our costant ranting and raving, or for better word churning to know the truth has no bearing on reality.It just is.

Re

(There are stories replete in Puranas that Lord fulfills wishes but surprisingly always with conditions. As far as I understand, probably Lord readily grants wishes for enjoyments of objects as different from HIM. But the karma (bad or good) accompanies.)

This is true so far as this material world is concerned.

Re

(Devotee: “If it is said that Ananda is the Self itself, then who is it that experiencies it?”

Guru: “That is the point. So long as there is one who experiences, it shall have to be stated that Ananda is the Self itself. When there is no one to experience, where there is the question of a form of Ananda? It is only that which ‘IS’ remains. That ‘IS’ is ‘Ananda’. That is the Self. So long as the feeling that the Self is different from oneself there will be one who enquires and experiences, but when one realizes the Self there will be no one to experience. Who is there to ask? What is there to say? In common parlance, however, we shall have to say that Bliss is the Self or is our real nature (Swarupa)”.)

Ram is the source of ananda, i am seeking that bliss which eludes me, i may be looking in right direction but walking in opposite.

Re

(So, Atanu can only say that this question will ever remain unanswered till one realizes the Self. )

I agree

re

(Till one realizes the Self there is always the other.)

Why do you think that self realization negates the other ?

re

(Here again I beg to differ although such differences do not hold water since all arguments are of mind.)

But I am not this mind and I am not the controller, and I am not independent from the whole, so who am i?

Re

(Sage Vashishta repeatedly -- through duration of a month or more--- taught Lord Rama that there is no cause and effect in the sense of cause giving rise to effect which is different from the cause. Without realizing this there is no chance of salvation. Cause and effects are the reasoning of the mind which by nature is limited -- though intelligent (through intelligence of consciousness). The delusion is that the mind is independently intelligent. The truth is that (as per the sage) that mind/s has/have no real existence apart from the pure consciousness. All reasoning of cause and effect are in the mind.)

Whose mind?

Re

(On the same line, Varuna taught Bhrigu that a one pointed mind alone is Brahman. A mind devoid of thoughts is Brahman.)

Mind what mind whose mind?

Krishna says mind is ones friend or enemy, mind is a tool is not the self.

Re

(Initially the reflected consciousness that we are, feel a fear that a mind devoid of thought is useless. But even in a mundane way that is not the case.

Best of literature, science – say for example writings of Upanishads, happen super consciously when mind is silent.)

To silent the mind is difficult if not imposible.

Re

( I am not trying to pull support from science since science itself knows that it cannot know the truth. But shruti that you have cited and many other shrutis state that all small “I”’s are the state of flux and not eternal. Only the big I – the Self is eternal.)

Science has its own role.

Where in shruti do you find direct statement negating the small i ?

My understanding is everything that be is eternal.

Krishna says having once been you never cease to be.

Re

(Know your soul as the consciousness temporarily limited with upadhis and slowly you will become consciousness -- even being in the body. I agree that what I say has not been fully experienced and established in me, but churning of these material will certainly be beneficial – for Ganesh Ji and for Atanu.)

That is for sure.

Re

(Rational mind can never surpass the super conscious mind that obtains inputs directly from the Lord.)

You are suggesting all three are different entity.

Re

(If you are knowledgeable about programming then you will know that it is easy to write instructions that alter key strokes or makes things happen on some key stroke. For example, I can write a code which converts “a” keystroke on a key board to “b” on the screen.)

I can understand this simple concept not much otherwise.

Re

(Now, just imagine how easy it is for Lord to install such a program in mind to keep HIM forever pure -- so that desires are fulfilled at the level of mind (software) and not in the hardware. One sees a bag of . and urine and one gets aroused and loses all sense. The sexual desire is the primordial and the toughest to get over. Then for defense of a belief one is ready to kill and so forth. )

There nothing imposible for the lord. But I cant I believe he/she would write a program that involves cruety and pain.

Re

(No end to delusions if your soul (I call it ahamkara or I sense attached to body-mind or some imaginary thing) does not know the real “I”. Soul is atma, the “I exist” sense. Now, whether bliss is possible with the sense of individual I is intact, that even a novice like me doubts.)

If bliss is not possible why chase it?

Re

(I will explain it more. When the sense of individual atma remains then how can that atma see another atma (say an enemy) as Brahman? But the truth is that all is Brahman)

Good point

An enlightened person looks at a learned and humble Braahmana, an outcast, even a cow, an elephant, or a dog with an equal eye. (5.18)

Re

(It is never possible. The ugly arguments among devotees seen here or elsewhere are the mildest of the results of staunchly believing in individual atma. )

This is due to ignorance and not the result of individuality.

Re

Upanishads first teach that one is not body-mind but an atma. But taking that as meaning eternal existence of infinite number of atmas is to ignore truth of other shrutis that proclaim oneness. To me this seems to be an obstacle – put in place by Ganesha himself – so that impure do not desecrate Brahman.)

Atma is described by Krishna as eternal, shrutis proclaiming oneness is foultless.

Mass of water and a drop is also one in quality.

Can Brahman be desecrated? Is impure another entity?

********He is not knowable by perception, turned inward or out ward nor by both combined. He is neither that which is known, nor that which is not known nor is he the sum of all that might be known he can not be seen, grasped, bargained with. He is undefinable, unthinkable, and indescribable. The only proof of his existence is union with him. The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second. This is the fourth condition of the self the most worthy of all.*******************

The only proof of his existence is union with him.

For me union does not negate the individuality.

Jai Bhole please bless us.

Jai Shree Krishna

maadhav · January 1, 2005

almost all.

hindus look for those who are not,

and surender them.

<< Re

( Now. Ganeshprasad ji I request you to enlighten me.

"Who is Maya bound?" )

for this you will have to ask maya pati. >>

and He says:

mAm eva ye prapadyante

mAyAm etAm taranti te (Krishna in gita)

Ganeshprasad · January 1, 2005

Jai Ganesh

Pranam Maadhavji

Thank you for your answer

but question is not how to get release from the bondage from maya but who is maya bound and why?

Jai Shree Krishna

January 1, 2005

Namashkar Ganeshprasad ji,

During your absence participated in a very acrimonious discusion and was almost taking retirement when you came back. If you are interested you may go through Kill the Ego thread by Shri Barney.

Till I am able to prepare some answers to your queries would you be interested to read these verses selected from Upanishads?

BU III, 9, 24-25

iv) 24. "Which is the divinity in the zenith?"

"The divinity Fire."

"In what is this fire established?"

"In speech."

"In what is speech established?"

"In the heart."

"In what is the heart established?"

25. "You absurd man!" said Yajnavalkya, "how can you think that it is anywhere else than in ourselves? If it were to be found in anything else, the dogs might eat it or the birds might tear it to pieces!"

BU IV, 4, 13-14

iii) 13. He who has found and awakened to the atman

which has entered the otherwise impenetrable body,

he is the maker of the universe, of all things.

The world is his! The world itself is he!

14. This we may know, indeed, while here on earth.

If we do not know it, great is the destruction.

But those who know it become immortal.

The others attain only distress.

KATH U IV, 1-2

1. The Self-existent pierced sense openings outward;

therefore a Man looks out, not in.

But a certain wise Man, in search of immortality,

turned his gaze inward and saw the Self within.

2. The foolish go after outward pleasures

and walk into the snare of all-embracing death.

The wise, however, discerning immortality,

do not seek the permanent among things impermanent.

KATH U IV, 3-6

3. That by which one perceives form and taste,

perfumes, sounds, and loving caresses,

by that selfsame one knows. What else remains?

This, I now declare, is that!

4. By knowing as the great all-pervading Self

that by which one is conscious of both

the dream state and also the state of wakefulness,

the wise remain exempt from sorrow!

5. The one who knows that Self within,

who enjoys like a bee the honey of the spirit,

Lord of what was and what is to be,

will never shrink away from Him.

This, I now declare, is that!

6. He who was born of old from austerity,

the one who was born of old from the waters,

who enters the cave [of the heart] and dwells there,

This, I now declare, is that!

KATH U IV, 10--11

10. Whatever is here, the same is there;

whatever is there, the same is here.

Whoever perceives just separateness

passes from death to death without cease.

11. Only by the spirit can this intuition be grasped:

in this world there is nothing whatever separate.

Whoever thinks he perceives separateness

passes from death to death without cease.

KATH U IV, 14-15

14. As water descending on mountain crags

wastes its energies among the gullies,

so he who views things as separate

wastes his energies in their pursuit.

15. But as pure water poured into pure

becomes the selfsame--wholly pure,

so too becomes the self of the silent sage,

of the one, O Gautama, who has understanding.

RV VIII, 58, 2

iv) Only One is the Fire, enkindled in numerous ways;

only One is the Sun, pervading this whole universe;

only One is the Dawn, illuminating all things.

In very truth, the One has become the whole world!

RV X, 114, 5AB

v) By their words the inspired sages impart

manifold forms to that Bird which is the One.

AV XIII, 4, 12-21

vii) 12. Power entered within him.

He is the One, the Onefold, the only One.

13. In him all the Gods become unified.

14. Fame and glory, fruitfulness and fertility,

Brahman splendor, food and nourishment,

15. belong to him who knows this God as One only.

16. Not second or third or fourth is he called--

he who knows this God as One only.

17. Not fifth or sixth or seventh is he called--

he who knows this God as One only.

18. Not eighth or ninth or tenth is he called--

he who knows this God as One only.

19. He watches over all existent beings,

those that breathe and those that breathe not.

20. Power entered within him.

He is the One, the Onefold, the only One.

21. In him all the Gods become unified.

TA III, 11, 1

ix) He who lives in us as our guide, who is one, and yet appears in many forms, in whom the hundred lights of heaven are one, in whom the Vedas are one, in whom the priests are one--he is the spiritual atman within the person.

BU III, 9, 1-9

i) 1. Then Vidagdha Shakalya asked him: "How many Gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"

He replied according to the Nivid, quoting the number mentioned in the Nivid of the All-Gods: "Three hundred and three and three thousand and three."