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Buddha, Jesus,Mohammed and Pabhupada

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According to the ancient Vaisnava view of God, there are many categories of incarnations of the Lord, the "saktyavesa" being just one of them........

 

 

The saktyavesa-avataras are of two types: forms of divine absorption (bhagavad-avesa), and divinely empowered forms (saktyavesa). All saktyavesa-avataras are jiva-tattvas, including those who are considered to be incarnations. When a jiva-tattva becomes specifically empowered by the Lord, he is called saktyavesa avatara. Dhanvantari, for example, who was the inaugurator of medical science, was a jiva-tattva saktyavesa incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

 

The primary saktyavesa-avataras are directly empowered by the Supreme Personality of Godhead and are called an incarnation. Lord Brahma and Lord Siva are considered to be such saktyavesa's, as are Lord Buddha, Kapiladev, Rsabhadev and Nara-Narayana. The secondary saktyavesa-avataras are indirectly empowered by the Supreme Personality of Godhead and are called vibhuti. Jesus Christ and Hazrat Mohammed are included in this group, as are the great Vaisnava Acaryas like Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur, and A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

 

 

"Generally the eternal associates of the Lord in the spiritual sky do not come to the material world. Sometimes they come, however, by the order of the Lord--not to hold any administrative post, but to associate with the Lord in person or to propagate the message of God in human society. Such empowered representatives are called saktyavesa-avataras, or incarnations invested with transcendental power of attorney."

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 3:5:21 Srila Prabhupada's Purport

 

For more on this , please visit : http://www.harekrsna.com/philosophy/incarnations/saktyavesa.htm

 

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So, this is the matter.

 

Jesus and Prabhupada are both incarnations of same status.

 

And Ramakrishna becomes a fraud when millions consider Him an incarnation.

 

Jealousy has not been overcome and one becomes a sage.

 

 

And when did Shiva become an incarnation? Please provide proof from Shruti.

 

 

 

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The next statement from GD would be SP is nothing but krishna himself

 

i wont be surprised .

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I reciprocate equally.

 

Dear Madhav, only I can't go along with your generalized anti muslim stance. There are 2 reasons.

 

First, I know that Lord is one for all.

 

Second, my father was saved by Muslim friends during partition.

 

Atanu

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First, I know that Lord is one for all."

 

Good for you, but Muslims feel their God is the only god, and THAT is the central problem, not your tolerance or the lack thereof. You can believe that Lord is one and his manifestations are many, but unless Muslims give up the idea of forcible conversion, killing infidels, rape, murder and plunder, no amount of 'tolerance' and 'good will' toward muslims will help.

 

Second, my father was saved by Muslim friends during partition."

 

That's personal, you must try to be objective. Nobody's saying muslims are all rogues, but Islam is an evil ideology that revolves around hate, and hence fit only for the medieval ages. So you see, the problem is not the Muslim man since we all admit there are good and bad people in every community. The problem is Islam. When you point that out, it doesnt mean you are fanatical, but you are simply stating the truth. And truth hurts. If Nazism is evil and we condemn it in unmistakable terms, it doesn't make us hindu fanatics, just because we speak the truth about nazism. In like manner, if Madhav or I speak the truth about Islam, it doesn't make us hateful people, but truthful ones, just the same.

 

 

 

 

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Actually the two reasons I gave are not for debate. But still.

 

Yes, many Muslims are staunch. But I have seen similar Saivaites, Vaishnavaites, HK, Christians etc.

 

About the 2nd point. Yes, it was my father who was protected by Muslim friends. So, it is a personal example. But my point is: I will not generalize, since I have seen the Goodness as well.

 

And then hatred is not good. The regulator of the universe knows His business (absolutely perfectly) and will take care.

 

Gita teaches dispassion.

 

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If you ask a bunch of dogs who their leader is, they will tell you that it is the dog that barks the loudest. Just because millions are illusioned by Ramakrishna's madness in declaring himself an incarnation of Krsna, while being an admitted Kali worshiper, doesn't hold any water at all. Millions worshiped Hitler. Did that make him an avatara too ? We have to go by what the scriptures say, not the sentiment of millions who have forgotten how great Lord Krsna is, or even the greatness of His pure devotee, for that matter. Srila Prabhupada never declared himself an incarnation, nor ever considered himself to be. He taught us that we are all servants of Sri Nandanandana , Goapla Krsna, and to beware of all the fakes and imposters who claim to be Him.

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"If you ask a bunch of dogs who their leader is, they will tell you that it is the dog that barks the loudest"

 

 

"We have to go by what the scriptures say,"

 

 

Hi,

 

Let the barking Dogs bark.

 

 

Please show us some scripture from Shruti. Please enlighten us. But not from that CD please.

 

 

Why cannot a Kali(manifestation of Universal Mother) bhakta be a Krishna incarnation?

 

And as SP is an incarnation (your claim) then can Tommy and Sheru be far behind?

 

 

 

 

 

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If we dont have to go by the mass , then y does SP want to amass crowd for him. The below was said by him, do difference in a christian grp that goes house to house and canvasses .

 

"This is your business. It's all right they may worship you if they like you very much, that's all right. But your business is to bring them to me. You are my disciple. The duty of the disciple is to bring the devotees to the spiritual master. This is your business. Your preaching should be like this. If your preaching does not bring them to this point, then it is useless"

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Please read this , it happened between Sp and one of his sishya . I felt that SP asking garland for himself directly was somewhat cheap ? Read and let know ur opinion.

 

As things became quiet a wave of courage washed over me. To keep the conversation moving I said, "Srila Prabhupada, I have one observation." Srila Prabhupada nodded his head in approval and said, "Yes, go on." I said, "For example, this morning in the temple room Siddhaswarupa Maharaja was giving the class. He was sitting along side of your Vyasasana and one of his people came up with a fresh flower garland and placed it on Siddhaswarupa. When I saw it happen, my mind became disturbed. In my opinion the garland should have been put on you, as there was no garland on your picture on the Vyasasana. I would think that the garland should have been put on the Vyasasana first." Srila Prabhupada turned to Siddha and said, "He has a good point. That is correct. It is all right, they may have wanted to put it on you, but you should have directed them to put it on my picture."

 

 

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we are all servants of god, and the spiritual masters responsibility is to show us how to develope a serving mentality. while ones spiritual master is still living, a diciple is instructed to direct others to first show respect to his own spiritual master, not to accept it for himself

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Ramakrishna becomes a fraud when millions consider Him an incarnation.

 

..give some demonstration

 

The next statement from GD would be SP is nothing but krishna himself

 

..sorry to surprise you.. but someone has already attempted it and prabhupada has rejected him and expelled. A nice teaching for all the rascals cheaters claiming to be god

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<< Dear Madhav, only I can't go along with your generalized anti muslim stance. There are 2 reasons.

 

First, I know that Lord is one for all.>>

 

Atanu, i never have disagreed to it.

the problem is that the source books from which we hindus know what god is and how to reach him is defferent from the source from which the muslims learn it. their learning makes them hindu killers, and we never enforce our dharma on any one.

 

<< Second, my father was saved by Muslim friends during partition.

 

Atanu >>

 

that is nice Atanu, but they are not true representative muslim. if one evaluates islam by such very rare incidences of some muslims, then it could not be a correct evaluation. their acts and attitudes are not respected by their mullas and and madresas. these friends are the right candidates whom the hindus need to convince that islam is not good and they need to give up islam if they want to live in india. a simple fact is this: a muslim is good when he does not follow koran, and a hindu is good when he follows gita.

 

also, please do not forget that many muslims also are saved by the hindus in india, and india has some good muslims too, but that does not make islam good. so they need to give up islam. e.g. in the society of cannibles, there may be one vegetarian, but that does make cannibalism a good ideology.

 

islam and hinduism are not compatible with each other.

most - almost all- the muslims of india are the children of the hindus who were forcibly convertred to islam. so now, they need to come back to hinduism, and we need to practice hinduism well and correctly. invaded islam has not place to stay in india - the vedic land.

 

when a hindu in india says to a muslim, "you practie islam, i do not mind," then it means, "you become hindu killer and temple smasher, i do no mind."

 

on my side, some 2-3 hundred or so years ago, my ancestors had to migrate from sindh to save their lives and dharma becaue of muslim threats. large hindu communities of villages had to migrate away from invaded islam and its brutalities.

 

people can stay where they are, islam has to go out of india. hope you understand this.

 

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Jai Ganesh

 

atanu

 

like maadhav i too read your post with interest.

 

since i see lord Shiva and lord Krishna as same, it brings me joy when you sing glories of lord Shiva.

 

by the way may i ask you what part of India you come from?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

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Ganesh Prasad Ji,

 

I admire your and Guest Ji's discussions. It is immaterial that Guestji and I have differences.

 

There is certainly some misunderstanding. During my college years George Harrison's Sweet Lord was my favorite and still is. Most arguments seem to stem up from position of defence -- thinking that other person is trying to lower the status of my diety. Whereas, very much like you, I do not see Shiva and Vishnu as different.

 

It is like a Christian forgetting the essence of Christ's saying: I am the Light and the Path, and taking the surface meaning and then demeaning Hindu beliefs.

 

Similarly, Muslims and Christians both denigrate Hindu worship of idol. But these critics are greatest idolators since they worship their own and other people's bodies more than anything.

 

Tolerance, understanding, and dispassion are not easy commodities. It requires great strength to abide by these qualities. We must continously strive.

 

And that is why I admire Guestji and your discussions, since, in general, those discussions do not become personal.

 

All strength to you dear Ganesh Prasad Ji.

 

 

 

 

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I forgot to answer the main question.

 

 

I am a Bengali by origin but I have been through most part of India due to nature of job. At present I am in Rajhmundry, AP.

 

May I also know about you?

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The asking of the garland by Srila Prabhupada was not full of ego or something cheap. Out of proper etiquette, and love for the spiritual master, a disciple will never accept more worship or honor in front of his Guru Maharaja, especially when he is still present on the planet.Otherwise, this is an offence to one's spiritual master. Srila Prabhupada had the thankless task of instructing his diciples about what proper conduct was. Srila Prabhupada used to stand in line to take a shower with his devotees when the movement first started in New York, and took a humble position so many times. Explaining proper etiquete to a disciple has no false ego. Srila Prabhupada offered everything to his spiriutla master, Srila Bhaktissidhanta, and was teaching us never to make the mistake of jumping over the head of our guru maharaja.

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It is the statement of the great Gaudiya Vaisnava acarya Srila Sridhara Swami, that Srila Prabhupada is a saktyavesa avatara of Lord Krsna. I have no idea who Tommy or Sheru are ? They don't even sound like they have accepted a guru, by the sounds of their names, so why are you speaking such nonsesne ?

 

Harinama is the dharma of the Golden Age - 'kali kaler dharma nama sankirtana', and one who preaches that dharma all over the world is the empowered Acharya - 'krsna sakti vina nahi tara pravatana'.

 

Srila Prabhupada exercised the basic principle of Krishna consciousness, as envisioned by Srila Rupa Goswami (somehow or other), to engage everyone in the Hare Krishna movement. The extent of his efforts are unprecidented in the history of vaisnavism. Thus he is the Founder-Acharya who has accomplished the objectives of the 'visva vaishnava rajya sabha', following in the footsteps of Srila Rupa Goswami.

 

In the scripture, Sri Chaitanya Mangal by Locana das Thakur, Lord Chaitanya speaks of a 'senapati' (great general), who will come after Him to accomplish His mission. It is clear that Lord Chaitanya's teachings were a preparation made by Himself for the use of another preacher, personally empowered by Him, who would launch His Sankirtana Movement on a global scale.

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur spoke of the arising of a self-effulgent acharya from among his disciples who would demonstrate his prominence by preaching in a grand style. It is obvious from the predictions of the previous acharyas mentioned above that Om Vishnupada Paramahamsa Praivrajakacharya astottara sata Sri Srimad Abhaya Caranaravinda Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is that self-effulgent Founder-Acharya.

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Jai Ganesh

 

Re

(Tolerance, understanding, and dispassion are not easy commodities. It requires great strength to abide by these qualities. We must continously strive.)

 

yes it tests and moulds ones character.it seams our forefathers had these in abundance.

 

By the way i am of gujrati origin, born in uganda currently in uk love to come to India every year whenever possible.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

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Agreed fullheartedly.

 

Take Nazism for example. They started with good intents. The German people were suffering due to economics and political problems and Hitler wanted to correct that condition by any means possible.

 

But in less than 5 years, what has happened? Over 2 Million Jews had died, the world plunge to war and millions of people (both enemy and allies) died as well.

 

Same with Islam. Before Islam came about, the Arabs are disorganized and in constant fued. Muhammad probably wanted to make Arab nations better. But look it now, in 1,400 years, Islam brought in more wars, violence, backward practise and turmoils in the world, equal to the evilness the Europeans brought to Asia from 17 century to now.

 

Any Religions which cannot promote goodness MUST be thrown away, which include Islam and Christianity, in my opinion.

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