etataje 0 Report post Posted April 12, 2004 Can someone please enlighten me on this subject. I've been attending the Hare Krsna temple and been wondering if this religion is the same that is practiced in India. Are there Hare Krsna's in India? Is what Srila Prabhupada introduced to the Western world the different or the same as Hinduisim? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 12, 2004 Hinduism is a beatiful colorful garland and HK is one of the flowers. Krishna is one of the Avatara (incarnation of God). Krishna is also a hindu god. HK is just one of the Sects of Hinduism ( eventhough they may not accept it) HKs are there in India also. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pankaja_Dasa 1 Report post Posted April 12, 2004 'HK is just one of the Sects of Hinduism ( eventhough they may not accept it)' and what sect is that? ==Vaishnavism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 12, 2004 Hinduism is a very broad religion as it is. Within it there are various sects of which Vaishnavism (views Vishu as the ultimate reality or God). Hare Krishna are a sect of Vaishavism (more apprpriately Gaudiya Vaishnavism). There are Hare Krishnas in India and their sect was started by Sri Chaitanya, ISKCON is the 'international' followers of Sri Chaitanya, which was established by Srila Prabhupada. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 13, 2004 hare krishna is not a religion in the sectarian sense, so hare krsna is for christians, muslims, buddhists, atheists, "anything" and for hindus also hare krishna is "sarva dharma...." leave all religions and surrender, so it is not a religion, it is surrendering to krsna, the supreme personality of godhead in hinduism there's many positions not compatible with vaishnavas and gaudya vaishnavas, many hindus are less close to vaishnavas than the western religions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadhav 0 Report post Posted April 13, 2004 << many hindus are less close to vaishnavas than the western religions >> not true. vaishnavism is a major branch of hinduism. krishna/vishnu has been worshipped in india milleniums before prabhupada introduced krishna to the west. if you cannot hate your mother, then you should not hate hinduism (sanatand dharma), the mother of a few religions, and dharma of the vedic people (hindus). it is the hindu brahmanas and the hindus in general who kept the vedic culture (including vaishnavism) and the scripures alive for a thousand years during islam invasions and destructions in india. so have some respect for them. most hindus feel and accept Hk's as hindus. it is the HK's who try to make a separation from the Hindus. there is a whole article posted here some time ago that discusses the matter in full detail. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 13, 2004 "in hinduism there's many positions not compatible with vaishnavas and gaudya vaishnavas, many hindus are less close to vaishnavas than the western religions " Not correct. I believe you are not aware of the fundamentals of Hinduism. Lord Krishna Cannot be hijacked by certain individual or a group of individuals. Krishna is an avtar of lord Vishnu. Vaishnavas worship vishnu. Vaishnavas are hindus. The worship of lord krishna has been in India from time immemorial whereas HK can be attributed to a single founder. So Stop misleading non hindus. And if you are really ignorant it is time you learn the basics of hinduism rather than getting brainwashed and in turn brainwashing. You guys always have difficulty in understanding the Sub set and super set. Its actually Krishna is a Hindu god and not the other way. May be guys in the west have been made to believe that way, but truth is truth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 13, 2004 << many hindus are less close to vaishnavas than the western religions >> not true. ...true... a vaishnava beleves in a personal god, a christian believes in a personal god, an advaitin does not believe in a personal god vaishnavism is a major branch of hinduism. ..your opinion krishna/vishnu has been worshipped in india milleniums before prabhupada introduced krishna to the west. ..no doubt, this is the greatness of vaishnavism, it comes from krsna, it is more ancient than hinduism, it is eternal if you cannot hate your mother, then you should not hate hinduism (sanatand dharma) ..sanatana dharma is not hinduism because there's so many incompatible ideas inside... and incompatible or opposite ideas cannot be all sanatana dharma.. to say the highest form of absolute is a person or an energy.. or that all the existence is maya.. are 3 dharmas, 3 religions, 3 hinduisms.. not one dharma, one sanatana dharma... so the hinduism is not the common mother of any one, ther's too much fundamental differences it is the hindu brahmanas and the hindus in general who kept the vedic culture (including vaishnavism) and the scripures alive for a thousand years during islam invasions and destructions in india. so have some respect for them. --i have much respect for anyone... variety and difference is the surce of respect and freedom. Forced union is the source of all probems and fanaticisms most hindus feel and accept Hk's as hindus. it is the HK's who try to make a separation from the Hindus. ..vaishnavas want to be united and friend to everyone without any exclusivism.. hindus included. Your purpose of this "hinduism" is not at all religious, it is politic. So the politic has to be done privately by citizens not from religions. I privately may be agree with your solution, but i do not want to be artificially in a religion together with you bending ad blaspheming it for politic purposes. I do not need to be in the same religion of you if i agree to your politic ideas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pankaja_Dasa 1 Report post Posted April 13, 2004 Its actually Krishna is a Hindu god and not the other way. -- did you stutter when you said this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 13, 2004 *****Its actually Krishna is a Hindu god and not the other way. -- did you stutter when you said this? ***** No sir. Telling an universal truth does not require any thinking or courage. It comes without an inhibition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 13, 2004 "in hinduism there's many positions not compatible with vaishnavas and gaudya vaishnavas, many hindus are less close to vaishnavas than the western religions " Not correct. I believe you are not aware of the fundamentals of Hinduism. ... vaishnava believes in a personal god, christian believes in a personal god, advaitin thinks that personal god is an illusion (maya) Vaishnavas worship vishnu. Vaishnavas are hindus. ...no, vaishnavas are vaishnavas.. many hindus say that vishnu is maya and brahman is the only real truth The worship of lord krishna has been in India from time immemorial whereas HK can be attributed to a single founder. ..hare krishna is a branch of gaudya vaishnava sampradaya with sri krsna as the founder (read the gita) So Stop misleading non hindus. ..yes stop misleading saying to have the exclusivism on some truths and to keep krsna only in india.. he's not indian, he's god And if you are really ignorant it is time you learn the basics of hinduism rather than getting brainwashed and in turn brainwashing. ..brainwashed, fanatic and conditioned is one who cannot answer anything but insults to cover his ignorance... so beat mine with logic and concepts, i will surely learn You guys always have difficulty in understanding the Sub set and super set. ..so explain instead of losing self control Its actually Krishna is a Hindu god and not the other way. ..the world god is a translation of isvara.. supreme... supreme means that he's over and beyond nations, boundaries and ever religions May be guys in the west have been made to believe that way, but truth is truth. ..the truth is that loving krsna is sanatana dharma, the inner nature of every living being, not the inner nature of every indian living being... krsna is eastern and western Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 13, 2004 "hare krishna is not a religion in the sectarian sense, so hare krsna is for christians, muslims, buddhists, atheists, "anything" and for hindus also" This is complete nonsense as christians, muslims, buddhists, atheists DO NOT believe in Sri Krishna, nor do they accept him as their God. Please get your facts right. Their concept of God is different to Sri Krishna. Christians believ in Yahova, Muslims Allah, Buddhists believe in attaining the level of Buddha and atheists do not even believe that God exists! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pankaja_Dasa 1 Report post Posted April 13, 2004 No sir. Telling an universal truth does not require any thinking or courage. It comes without an inhibition. -- your right your not thinking. Everything in exsistance is Hindu then? I have Hindu pants ok? when Chrsitian wheres them, they will be Christain pants, same w/ Muslim, crude yet funny analogy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 13, 2004 Left Right, Left right, Left Right, Up down Up down Up down Inside outside Inside outside.... Well do you think like this when you brush your teeth? Is it not a habit? Or do you think Breathe Innnnnn.... Breathe ouuuuuutttt... for breathing? Is it not a habit? So do Hindus believe, and its a habit for them to believe that Krishna is a Hindu god and is an avtar of Vishnu ( who is himself a hindu god). Much funnier than your analogy right? So only when something against the most common belief is taught to people to which they are not habituated to, they need to out a consious effort ( called THINKING) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pankaja_Dasa 1 Report post Posted April 13, 2004 I agree ppls are in habit of saying Krsna is Hindu God. To even say Krsna is Hindu puts down an impediment on Krsna to say He can award only liberation to Bhaktas, when it is clear He does so even to ppls He kills. Anyway I have to brush my Hindu teeth, seeu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 13, 2004 ******"in hinduism there's many positions not compatible with vaishnavas and gaudya vaishnavas, many hindus are less close to vaishnavas than the western religions " Not correct. I believe you are not aware of the fundamentals of Hinduism. ... vaishnava believes in a personal god, christian believes in a personal god, advaitin thinks that personal god is an illusion (maya)***** Brahma, Visnu, Siva are the trinities of hinduism. Vaisnave believe in Vishnu, and all his avtars, Shaivites believe in Siva. Christian believes in Christ totally not related to hinduism. You are making a faulty lofic by comparing dissimilar faiths. Dont think, Hinduisms greatness lies in accomodating all these differnt philosophies? Your Logic goes like " Pigs have four legs, Cows have four legs. Cow is holy, so Pig is also holy" ...dont bring Varaha Avtar into picture. ******Vaishnavas worship vishnu. Vaishnavas are hindus. ...no, vaishnavas are vaishnavas.. many hindus say that vishnu is maya and brahman is the only real truth****** Are you from mars or jupiter? Well I donno how many vaishnavas themselves will agree with you. ******The worship of lord krishna has been in India from time immemorial whereas HK can be attributed to a single founder. ..hare krishna is a branch of gaudya vaishnava sampradaya with sri krsna as the founder (read the gita) ***** Krishna is an Avtar of Lord Vishnu. Thats it. Period. No more arguements on this. Facts dont require proof. ******So Stop misleading non hindus. ..yes stop misleading saying to have the exclusivism on some truths and to keep krsna only in india.. he's not indian, he's god****** Thats exactly my point is Krishna is not exclusive for HKs only. He is for all hindus. ****"You guys always have difficulty in understanding the Sub set and super set. ..so explain instead of losing self control"****** Hinduism is the super set. All other gods are subset of hindusim. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 13, 2004 "To even say Krsna is Hindu puts down an impediment on Krsna to say He can award only liberation to Bhaktas, when it is clear He does so even to ppls He kills. " Lord Muruga, Lord Siva, Shakti...the mother of all power.., ganapathi, lord Rama,all have this habit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 13, 2004 Shuddhadvaita, Kevaladvaita, Vishistadvaita, & Dwaita are the pillars of hinduism. Most of the hindus fall under the above mentioned sampradayas. Followers of Shuddhadvaita, Vishistadvaita & Dwaita are called Vaishnavas , as they accept Vishnu as Supreme. They are actually monethic (except dwaitas). there are also sects like veera shaivam where they are called shaivas as they accept Shiva as supreme. Shaivas are also actually monoethic. Followers of Kevaladvaita are called smarthas. nowadays it is hard to distinguish between smartha & shaiva. smartha worship all hindu gods. but many smarthas nowadays behave like shaivatees. Now coming to the main point, vishistadvaithas & dwaithas worship Vishnu & they follow complex orthodox rites,rituals. Everyone cant follow that. So krishna sent Chaitanya mahaprabhu to give a path that anyone can follow it. so path given by Chaitanya is called "Gaurangism"/"Gaudiya Vaishnavam". ISKCON are followers of "Gaudiya Vaishnavam". if we say ISKCON as non-hindus or not main-stream hindus, as they worship only krishna then it will apply also to "Vishistadvaitas" & "Shuddhadvaitas". so thers no sense in saying ISKCON/HK's are not hindus or not main-stream hindus. it depends upon a perons belief & the path he follows to see all divine powers in one God or in different many Gods. Hinduism is a unique religion that accomodates people of both categories ie., monoism & polytheism. both are two eyes of hinduism. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Jai Shri krishna /images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Shri Guru Raghavendraya Namaha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 13, 2004 This is complete nonsense as christians, muslims, buddhists, atheists DO NOT believe in Sri Krishna, nor do they accept him as their God. Please get your facts right. __so let us show him us, this is done all over the world and thousand of people are accepting Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 13, 2004 Brahma, Visnu, Siva are the trinities of hinduism. ..it is not a trinity in the sense that this trinity is supreme.. it is that each one of this persons have the jurisdiction on one energy of material nature. Vishnu on satva guna, brahma on rajo guna, siva on tamo guna. So there's no trinity,,, vishnu is the supreme, siva is subordinated and brahma is a jiva like you and me.. they're separated Christian believes in Christ totally not related to hinduism. You are making a faulty lofic by comparing dissimilar faiths ..see at the principles, names are not so important... a vaishnava believes in a personal god, a christian believes, an advaitin says that this personal god is maya. I do not want to say that hindus are inferior to others, because it is not true at all, i only want to say that hinduism is not one religion, it is many religions, many opposite. Dont think, Hinduisms greatness lies in accomodating all these differnt philosophies? ..hinduism does not accomodate, simply he puts things together indiscriminately. A good person is already peaceful and tolerant without the need to create a fase religion to force all together Are you from mars or jupiter? Well I donno how many vaishnavas themselves will agree with you. Krishna is an Avtar of Lord Vishnu. Thats it. Period. No more arguements on this. Facts dont require proof. ..why you do not study a little before answering of these matters? Thats exactly my point is Krishna is not exclusive for HKs only. He is for all hindus. ..if he's for all the world, obviously he's for indians, no one has exclusivity Hinduism is the super set. All other gods are subset of hindusim. ..so god is the hinduism? i do not agree and you are not able to give any explanation... so why speak? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 13, 2004 gokul, give more detailed explanation, monotheism and politeism are two eyes of nothing... they are simply opposite (hinduism is a sectarian concept... the name means "indian" or "related to india" vaishnava concepts are universal) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 13, 2004 <--- vaishnava concepts are universal --> its true. i know that. <--- hinduism is a sectarian concept... the name means "indian" or "related to india" ---> Actually word hindu is used more than "sanathana dharma" & it has become mixed in society in such a way that we cant stop to use word hindu. So actually " sanathana dharma" is correct word instead of "hindu". Along with vaishnavas the shaivas & sakthas are also "considered" to be followers of "sanathana dharma". so sanathana dharma accomodates both vaishnavas,shaivas, sakthas. but word "hindu" is used instead of sanathana dharma, so thats why i said hinduism accomodates people of both aspects. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 13, 2004 Actually word hindu is used more than "sanathana dharma" & it has become mixed in society in such a way that we cant stop to use word hindu. So actually " sanathana dharma" is correct word instead of "hindu". the problem is not how you call it, you can call "apple" or "chapati" instead of sanatana dharma... the problem is that an advaiti will tell you that vishnu is created by maya for ignorant people who need an antropomorfic god to express some spirituality and we vaishnavas say that advaita is a semi atheistic stage to get gradually out from buddhism who is atheistic at all so being the difference so deep i do not know how to consider the two positions belonging to the same religion and i say surely to you that preaching in christian countries you would have no difficulties at all speaking of a supreme god, vishnu, krsna and so on. The different name is not a problem .... but as you have seen all the people here are more or less advaitin or atheist .. so you can call themselves and yourselves and me hindu if our bodies are born in india, but philosophically nothing in common the fact that an advaitin or a mayavadi do some external things like a vaishnava, like pooja, diet, bath in ganga or yamuna is not enough so better to be friend of everyone and to not close these nice religions in a territorial name... an american or a french or a german can be a vaishnava, shaivite, shankarite and so on because these definitions are universal.... but not an "hindian", indian, hindu, french, american, english, greek, thailand, chinese are bodily definitions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 13, 2004 <-- .... but as you have seen all the people here are more or less advaitin or atheist .. so you can call themselves and yourselves and me hindu if our bodies are born in india, but philosophically nothing in common --> yes thats true. nowadays speaking advaitam has become considered to be intellectual & modern. Actually i identify myself as a vaishnava rather than a hindu. but sometimes i too am pushed to use the word "hindu" (as i find no other option at sometime). You are making good points. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Jai Shri Krishna /images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Shri Pujayaya Guru Raghavendraya Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 13, 2004 Gokul Being a vaishnava can you explain how the karma theory is followed by the vaishnavas ? Is it any different from the "Hindu" theory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites