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Visit to a temple by a seemingly non-hinu (real story)

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We visited two temples yesterday evening. We quietly entered the first one (Lord Krishna) and participated in the prayer. There, we were welcomed and ladies were smiling.

 

Then we went out to the other temple, where we did the same. In the second temple, ladies and gents were separated. I moved from the ladies section towards the gents which was the way to get out of the temple; I passed in front of ladies washing their fruit. At that moment, a man called my companion and as he approached, he was told rather abruptly "only for hindu community, please, you have to leave".

 

Fair enough, we do not look like "your typical" hindu(whatever that means) - however how does he know we are not fervent followers ? My cmpanion accepted right away the instruction to exit and told me we have to go. The man was watching us to make sure we were actually leaving. We went towards the exit door and an old gentleman wanted to offer us some water as we exited. The man from behind told him "NO". I thought it was quite an aggressive attitude but stayed very calm and turned to him to ask him what we did wrong (all this in a low voice, but he was summoning us in a loud voice). He would not care to reply and repeated very abruptly "ONLY FOR HINDU COMMUNITY". Then, I turned and left.

 

Please, kindly tell me once and for all whether somebody who does not "look like he/she is hindu" may enter a temple and pray. Also, can you explain me the reaction of this man and what would be the best answer and course of action.

 

We love to go to temples and we just got terrorized yesterday. We would not like this to happen to us again. I was SO disappointed - it was as if I were back into the world, as if I was in a church, mosque or synaguogue - where they can be quite unwilling to let you enter if you "do not belong". I did not know Hindus could also think and say "go away, you don't belong".

 

Your insights are needed. Thank you.

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Its very painful to hear your incident.

 

Anyway, heres my humble suggestion. i dunno which temple u have visited.

 

but there are pushti-marg havelis (krishna temples)in Gujarat & Rajasthan. visit them. theres no caste/religion discrimination.

 

only thing is they expect is that you have to believe in krishna & surrender to him. so dress yourself in a traditional way & wear tilak in ur forehead.

 

visit the haveli. no one will discriminate you. surrender to krishna. thats it.

 

According to my knowledge "Pushti-marg" is the only vaishnava sect that allows everyone to embrace their sect without any discrimination.

(Note : Forgive me, i dunno much about Gaurangism & Swami Narayan sect. if they are also "big-hearted" like pushti-margis then i will also add the two sects in the "genuine" list)

 

Of course, even "Sri vaishnavas" in Tamilnadu dont do much discrimination. but they allow only hindus. so i cant guarantee that you will be allowed in the tamilnadu vishnu temples (maintained by "sri vaishnavas").

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Namah Shivaya

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Namo Venkatesaya

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i think that with this increasing nationalist hindu pride the situation will get worse, we have examplet of intolerance and fanaticism even in this forum

 

if they think that krsna, siva, ganesh, vishnu and so on are indian it is possible that they will want only indians to see them

 

for this reason hinduism can be materialism and atheism and it is different from sanatana dharma

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(Note : Forgive me, i dunno much about Gaurangism & Swami Narayan sect. if they are also "big-hearted" like pushti-margis then i will also add the two sects in the "genuine" list)

 

"gaurangism" or gaudya vaishnava sampradaya is all over the world (=known as harekrishna.. iskcon and other gaudya maths) giving diksa to people of any nationality and social class so it is unlikely that access is restricted in some temples to only "indian & hindus"

 

in my 20years experience and practice i never heard of it, in india and all over the world... it is illogic

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wow, you must be feeling very bad, I think you controlled your disgust very well, and anger, and left in a nice way, thats the way it should be.

 

I hope you find another temple soon, which will be more welcoming, all this your not allowed to enter cause of diff sects etc, will go on most probably, but just keep your goal in mind, KRSNA!

 

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Thank you for your good words and explanation. I am relieved because I understand that it was an incident and that we are not banned for all eternity from the temples. We will follow your advice. And, yes, we will continue to go and pray and worship. Most grateful to you.

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Yes I think you are right abou tthe rise of hindu nationalism and pride. Hindus never used to be like this, but ever since the rise of nationalism and aggressiveness of certain other religions..which I won't mention here..hindu nationalism has been on the rise too.

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I think this case has very little to do with Hindu nationalism. It seems that whoever told you to leave had a traditionalist outlook and was not used to seeing non-hindus or non-indians at the temple and thought they treated it like a museum. Also the fact that you had to walk through the 'male' area could've offended some people, especially during a ceremony.

But the vast majority of the time I'm sure Hindus have no problem with non-hindus going to their temples as long as they show respect.

 

It sounds like you're from a western county, if you could state the temple name or organisation it may help as we could see what sort of community it is and probably give you a better answer. Some communities are very close-knit and only speak their language as most of the followers may be from the same part of India, so maybe they are alarmed when outsiders pay them a visit.

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Actually I brought all these incidents in another topic in the forum.

 

An Indian Looking Christian will still sneak in, and a westerner hindu is discriminated.

 

This happens not only in temples, but in museums, zoos and all other places, where foreigners means more money and a 5 rupee ticket will be 500 rupees for a foreigner ( eventhough he might have got an indian citizenship) and an Indian GC holder will continue paying 5 rupees.

 

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That will help us answer better.

Because Most of the temples in Tamilnadu allow foreigners. That includes the most famous temples like Madurai Meenakshi, Rameshwaram,Tiruvannamalai, Tanjore Pragadeeswar temple ( Big temple), tmples of Kanchi, Chidambaram Natraja Temple etc.

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< -- That will help us answer better.

Because Most of the temples in Tamilnadu allow foreigners. That includes the most famous temples like Madurai Meenakshi, Rameshwaram,Tiruvannamalai, Tanjore Pragadeeswar temple ( Big temple), tmples of Kanchi, Chidambaram Natraja Temple etc -->

 

i think in this thread we are talking about krishna/vishnu temple. so if u know any vishnu temple that allows foreigners tell it.

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One of them is a Krishna Temple and he does not talk about the other.

 

And you guys assume that he is talking about vaishnava temples only.

 

Well, Anantha Padmanabahswami temple, Srirangam temple, Ulagalantha Perumal Temple, Partha Sarathy temple in Madras all allow foreigners ( I think they are all vaishnava temples \_|_/ )

 

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discriminations are also in non vaishnava temples.. it is very easy to check going in varanasi, bubhanesvar and many other places

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Hare Krishna,

 

I think both of you are westerners. It is sad that such a thing happened. I have a few questions.

 

1. Did you visit this temple in India or USA or somewhere outside India ?

 

2. Why did you simply not say that we are Hindus or believers in Vedas ?

 

There could be number of reasons. I speculate that the person in the temple may have had a bad experience with westerners.

 

In USA, Houston I guess, two christian westerners entered the temple and broke the deities while a bhajan was going on. Not to mention, they forcibly took the mike and started blabbering about JC and the only way with a bible in one hand. So you can see why some temple people are so pissed off with westerners.

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We are both Europeans, one of Middle-Eastern origin though -he did go alone and nobody stopped him then.

 

The temple is in Dubai; it is not the Krishna temple, but another one next to it. Again, I look very much occidental and although I was dressed modestly (pants and long shirt) it was occidental attires I was wearing. I guess if I had stayed in the women side, praying, the man in question may not have dared say a thing. I had to cross the men's section to leave any way, and women were around me at the back washing fruit so I did not think of it more then that.

 

Today, a Hindu friend told us to go back and that we could stay as much as we felt appropriate, as long as we do believe and do surrender to God. It is nobody's business why we come and pray, he said.

 

Still, if ever I get stopped again, how can I prove my devotion or answer without insulting their sensibilities and beliefs . I certainly don't want that.

 

We really did not look like we wanted to destroy everything or we were disrespectful; proof is in the Krishna temple, the devotees were smiling at us and since my companion knows a bit about some of the customs, we were able not to make "terrible mistakes".

 

Tomorrow, an Hindu friend is taking us to the very same temple and he told us we would participate in the Q&A that does take place every week. I guess it is like falling from a horse, asap you should climb up again or you may never ride a horse again :-).

 

If ever you know the community and if ever you can tell what I should say to somebody adament to get me out, without making a scene, please, kindly advise.

 

Thanks to all who have answered me so far and who will answer again. It did help me recover from the "shock". :->

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Hare Krishna,

 

Now I am in shock. A Hindu temple in Dubai and a Krishna temple too ??

 

All my speculations, I think does not apply to Dubai.

 

I think your Hindu friend is the best solution. Ask him to defend you if that mad man comes up again. Let your Hindu friend affirm that you are a practising Hindu and that you believe in Vedas and ask your Hindu friend to defend you(in case you will need his help) before going to temple. I can only tell that the mad Hindu who insulted you hates westerners.

 

Next time you just walk in, and if he stops and abuses you tell him to his face you will lodge a police complaint for threatening you. You do not need to go to police, but what the heck, you can threaten him atleast. I do not think he will dare to insult you.

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I'm very surprised there are Hindu temples in Dubai, being an Islamic country I thought all un-islamic places of worship were banned. I think you should visit the temple again and hopefully there wouldn't be a problem.

 

If you meet the same person who told you to leave and if he argues with you again, tell him to visit this site to debate with us! Let's see how much he really knows.

 

Raguram-an

What you said happened in Houston also happened in the UK on Diwali 2003 at a Hindu temple in Wembley, where there is a large gujarati community. Two Christian fanatics came and damaged one of the arms of a Rama murti and started blabbering that Hinduism is false and that Hindu should all become Christians. I wonder if this is part of a bigger set-up?

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As far as I know in my 54 years experience going to temples[in my country]I have never seen any such incident occuring. There had been and still having many non Hindus especially Chinese, and europeans visiting our temples and receiving darshans. They love to come to our temples because of the serene enviorment and chanting od mantras by the priest makes them feel they are in the abode of God. But I think you are talking about India's temples. Well, let me tell you the experience my sister went through when visiting Palani and Venkadachalapathy temples. She being a tamilian and a born hindu had to wittness such arogance by the temple authorities and she had to pay extra 200 rupees as bribe to go nearer to receive darshan. What a shame. But I assure you nothing of that sort ever happens in my country. I know people in India are arogant and unkindly to visitors and non Indians [citizen of India]. May be they had been learned this lesson form foreign invaders and colonizers. And that had somewhat embeded in their genes. We have to forgive such ignorant people. But I think may not the whole of India behave in such mannre. Anyway with all this suicide bombers threat may be they are taking extra precution to avoid such incidents in temples. I hope that was the reason they were rude to you. As a Hindu I would like to extend my humble apologies on behalf of these ignorant Hindus. Please forgive them.

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God has no race or sects. If whoever think so are either ignorant or blinded by their ego. God belongs to the whole of human race and what he hears for you is not your language but what your atman transmit. But I think not many knows about it. That is why they say when you pray in your heart he respons quickly. That is why meditaion is more powerful than chanting mantras. When you meditate your are in direct contact with Bhraman. No amount of chanting would pull you nearer to him than silent meditation and selfless service to mankind.

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Excuse me! Krishna and Vishnu, who are they? Your personla God? What is the difference, its all temple and God resides in all temples. Why do you want to differentiate? Do you have any special bonus when you talk only about Krishna and Vishnu?

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Two Christian fanatics came and damaged one of the arms of a Rama murti and started blabbering that Hinduism is false and that Hindu should all become Christians. I wonder if this is part of a bigger set-up?

 

luckily not...!! (i go sometimes in churches giving bhagavad gita lessons)

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That is why meditaion is more powerful than chanting mantras.

 

why change the subject of the discussion for your cheap atheistic propaganda? all doctrines say that a mantra or a prayer is really effective when one is putting his mind on what he's praying and chanting

 

to chant without meditating is like to start meditating then falling asleep

 

so i cannot criticize meditation saying that meditation is sleeping

 

(you show yourself as a very peaceful and non fanatic person, but you are very easy to criticize ideas different from yours)

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please share the names and locations of the temples.

 

they may or may not have good reason to be so rude,

but it is not common.

 

a hindus could be any one of any nationality or race or color, but most look like indians. so for those who look like non-indians, it wouldbe a good idea to contact temple authority and introduce your self and tell him what your interest is to come to the temple and if you could come.

then, if your interest is friendly, it is most likely theywill welcome you. but just intruding in a temple where no one knows you, could scare them in this time of terrorism.

 

please share your future good experienes as well.

 

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Yea dubai is one of the more liberal muslim countries, it's not as liberal as india or usa though..you can't chant hare krishna down the street, but yea you can have a temple.

I spent many years in a middle eastern country too, we had a krishna temple there but it was out of the way. They allowed us foreigners to practice our beleif but in a extreemely muted way and as long as we kept it behind closed doors it was fine, but if we became a bit open about it they would threaten to shut us down.

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it wouldbe a good idea to contact temple authority and introduce your self and tell him what your interest is to come to the temple and if you could come.

 

 

it is not a great problem because almost all temples in india are open to everyone, but it is a little strange to have to contact or negotiate to enter in a temple

 

(and when they do not allow people to enter they do it for racism, not because they are afraid of terrorism... i have been in many temples in dangerous times, they were not limiting the access, they simply had surveillance by police or army

 

rece discrimination has no meaning even for terrorism, indians are putting bombs not europeans or americans)

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